Grinding at Full Stop, ABS? - TTORA Forum
 
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-24-2009, 09:01 PM Thread Starter
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Grinding at Full Stop, ABS?

So as you may know i've had my truck about 3.5 weeks now or so. Initially when driving it the brakes felt more sensitive than my 2000 Xcab, otherwise no problems till yesterday.

Yesterday I was about to miss a turn so i hit the brakes pretty hard, and as i slowed down dramatically i heard a grinding type noise from the front, and felt it all through the front and brake pedal, kind of gave it a wtf and went about my business.

Today i went up into the mountains with my wife and on more than one occasion when i had to hit my brakes hard would hear this god awful grinding noise from the front and get really weird feedback from the pedal. It would also for lack of a better term make a "whiney" noise. It did it on snowy/icy conditions, and nothing abnormal about breaking in all other conditions. No wobble, fine at high and mid speeds, only when hitting them hard.

I've never owned a vehicle with ABS, but i thought you were just supposed to feel a vibration in the pedal? I mean this sounds like metal on metal, and does not feel right in the pedal. I didn't feel it at all last week on the wheeling run and we spent a good majority of the day in the snow. Driving the whole way home thinking only about breaks the only abnormality i noticed was that the breaks would be somewhat squishy and i could almost pump them up to be more firm. I don't know if that's normal, i just never noticed anything like that on any car i've driven. When you're thinking breaks for 2 hours in traffic on an icy road, you notice everything...lol

I was able to easily replicate it up there by hitting the breaks hard in both 2wd and 4hi, and all times it was at low speed coming to a near complete stop. I didn't mess with it anymore after the initial discovery because i was 80 miles from home in pretty bad conditions.

Is this normal??? I'm under warranty, but who do i take this to, dealer or someone who does brakes? I'm just trying to see if this is a vehicle issue, or a brake issue which i'll be responsible for the costs on my own.

Sorry for the long ass post, i searched and found a few similar threads where some people said normal, other people said not normal, others said ABS, others said CV's, wheel bearings, ect. I just want to get it into the right place to get fixed, cause it does not seem normal at all to me.

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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-24-2009, 09:43 PM
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I hate that damn noise. Its the ABS but I would check your brakes and make sure that you have the proper amount of fluid, and that you don't need new pads. My 04 used to do that more so when I need new brakes. Other wise my 07 dose it when my ABS kicks in.

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Originally Posted by AxleIke View Post
If you use them for lift, and wheel hard, you will crap steering parts like your truck ate a tierod/idler arm combo burrito at Casa Bonita.
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-24-2009, 09:56 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Taco_Man View Post
I hate that damn noise. Its the ABS but I would check your brakes and make sure that you have the proper amount of fluid, and that you don't need new pads. My 04 used to do that more so when I need new brakes. Other wise my 07 dose it when my ABS kicks in.
Christ, that noise is NORMAL?!?!

Fluid is good, topped it off last weekend up at Troy's when Nate was bleeding his brakes.

I've never done brakes and have no clue if i need new pads/shoes or not. I don't have the tools to take my wheel off here and even check them (damn apartment). At times my brakes are also kind of "catchy" where at times when i apply it will really grab and other times normal. I wish i knew how to diagnose brake problems....lol.

Anyone else experience/seen this?

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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-24-2009, 10:01 PM
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im familiar with the noise and try to avoid it at all costs, what i really hate is that you can brake at least 10-20 feet shorter in the snow with the abs off. and when i forget to take it off in the snow i've had a few "OH SHIT" moments thinking the truck would stop but didnt b/c it kicked on.

how ever this is normal and not to worry, i try to brake just enough to keep that bitch of a system from going on when in the slick/snow
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-24-2009, 10:10 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by extremepaint View Post
im familiar with the noise and try to avoid it at all costs, what i really hate is that you can brake at least 10-20 feet shorter in the snow with the abs off. and when i forget to take it off in the snow i've had a few "OH SHIT" moments thinking the truck would stop but didnt b/c it kicked on.

how ever this is normal and not to worry, i try to brake just enough to keep that bitch of a system from going on when in the slick/snow
That's re-assuring, thanks.

So i guess that god awful noise/feeling in the pedal is normal and i shouldn't worry at all? Like i said, it happened yesterday as i abruptly applied the breaks, but it wasn't on snow/ice. I was scared to mess with it when i got back into the Metro area today because i had no clue what was going on.

I noticed last week on the snow run that when we got down the hill my breaks (along with Nate's) were stinking. I also noticed it this afternoon slightly, but was up on I-70 and didn't think much of it and it was before the weird grind noise. My truck has 47K on it and i have no idea what it went through before me, should i change the rotors/pads as well as do the rear or am i stressing about nothing here?

Sorry this probably sounds noobish, but that sound/feeling had me stressed out the entire 2 hours back down the mountain in traffic, and now i just want to make everything "right".

Thanks.

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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-24-2009, 10:28 PM
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If it were me, and your truck is still under factory warranty, I'd take it to a dealership and have it looked at. It won't cost you a thing, just you'll be minus a truck for a while.

My truck does the same thing when the ABS kicks in. Only does it when I'm on slippery/loose surfaces or if I need to do a panic stop. Or sometimes it will do it if I'm on a rough road and I'm hitting the breaks.
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-24-2009, 10:37 PM Thread Starter
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I'm not under factory warranty, but from the place i bought it from (which is an hour away). I was thinking it was something catastrophic with the noise it made. After hearing from you guys and searching google the last hour plus I guess this is "normal". I just don't want to fear hitting the brakes wondering if i'm going to stop, or hear that noise and feel that grinding in the pedal.

Anyone know the procedure for inspecting brakes want to give me a hand? I've always wanted to be able to do my own rotors/pads/shoes and such, i just don't know what i'm looking for/doing. I guess i just want piece of mind now to know my system is functioning properly.

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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-25-2009, 10:05 AM
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If you want you can come down to my place and I will take a look at the pads. I have had mine come on more often when I need new brake pads. As far as everything else I don't know a clue about it. But my garage is open to you.

EDIT: Give me a call if you want to come down. 7two0-two7two-nine1seven3. Garage is open tell 5pm today if you need it.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AxleIke View Post
If you use them for lift, and wheel hard, you will crap steering parts like your truck ate a tierod/idler arm combo burrito at Casa Bonita.
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-25-2009, 11:15 AM Thread Starter
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I have to work this afternoon. Maybe next weekend?

Thanks for the offer, I hate not having even the most simple tools to remove my wheel and check somthing like this.

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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-25-2009, 11:54 AM
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Next saturday I will be working on my CV's with Dot. If you have time feel free to call me and you can come on down. After we are planning to go see if rampart is still open.

Mike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AxleIke View Post
If you use them for lift, and wheel hard, you will crap steering parts like your truck ate a tierod/idler arm combo burrito at Casa Bonita.
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-25-2009, 12:14 PM Thread Starter
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Sounds good, thanks.

I still can't believe that noise is normal . I was wondering how it was possible to not hear it last weekend while wheeling and it occured to me i had my locker on most of the day disabling ABS, so i guess it is ABS. Still will be nice to get together with someone else who has experienced this to confirm i have nothing to worry about.

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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-25-2009, 12:50 PM
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You have obviously pissed off the ABS gods and they are punishing you. The only resolution is to sell the truck immediately and buy an 80's Yugo.

If it weren't cold and snowing, I'd offer you my driveway, I can show you how to check the brake pads, Nate probably already showed you how to bleed the brake lines, which will probably help you with the squishy pedal.

I hate ABS and specifically got a truck without that annoyance, so I can't help diagnose that crap. The metallic grinding makes me wonder if it's just time for new pads up front. I've had instances where my worn brakes were fine unless I mashed on them, in my case I was just real close to needing new pads.

As for Warranty, pads are a maintenance item.. and probably not covered by the warranty, you need to be sure that they are fine before making that trek to try to get the problem covered.

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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-25-2009, 03:09 PM
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The funny thing about ABS is that ideally you would continue to press hard on the brake pedal to keep the ABS active so you can continue to maneuver while panic braking, but because of the feedback and noise, most folks want to let off the brake b/c it sounds/feels so awful. You can still threshold brake with ABS, but it's a little tricky. In most cases threshold braking in a straight line works better, but ABS does allow you to maneuver more effectively by maintaining rolling friction while braking hard. When we teach good driving habits, we do it in vehicles with an ABS-disable switch and make the driver more actively involved with driving the car with both hands and feet...

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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-25-2009, 03:11 PM Thread Starter
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I've never owned a vehicle with ABS, and any vehicle i've driven with it had never been a problem, that's why i figured something was wrong. I wish i didn't have ABS, but alas i'm stuck with it.

I was there when Nate bleed his brakes, but i didn't give it much thought and had no idea how he did it. At that point brakes weren't really on the mind. And i certainly didn't ever expect to hear that grinding noise, scared the crap out of me!

I know pads and rotors aren't a warranty item, but the ABS system is (master cylinder, sensors, lines, ect). At first i also wasn't even sure it was an ABS thing. That grind sounds like gears grinding, so i wasn't sure if i was having some kind of failure outside of the brake system. That is why i didn't know where i should take it, if it needed to be taken in at all. We've all had squishy brakes, squealing brakes, bad pads, warped rotors or something along the way, this is like nothing i've ever heard, or even heard of for that matter.

This next week if you or Taco Man aren't busy i would like to stop by somewhere with someone who can help me inspect my brakes with the wheels off. If said person can help me change my pads even better I'm going to have brakes on the mind all week now, i can already tell

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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-25-2009, 03:22 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fjcruzer View Post
The funny thing about ABS is that ideally you would continue to press hard on the brake pedal to keep the ABS active so you can continue to maneuver while panic braking, but because of the feedback and noise, most folks want to let off the brake b/c it sounds/feels so awful.
Boy you said it. Like i said i noticed the problem up in Breckenridge. The entire drive back DOWN I-70 in traffic i was scared shitless to even use my brakes. My first instinct was to let off the brakes, but that wasn't exactly an option. Before hitting the road i stopped to use the restroom in a snowy parking lot and hit the brakes hard, that was when i was duplicating the problem several times and discovered it was only when i was coming to a complete stop hitting the brakes hard. All i could think of when the noise started and the feeling in the pedal was to let up. The entire time home i tried to keep good distance between the cars in front of me for fear of that noise/feeling happening again, not a fun way to drive.

I feel a lot better knowing this is somewhat normal, but i still will sleep better at night after i know my pads and rotors are in good shape. My main concern is that i hadn't encountered this problem for 3+ weeks and it happened several times in the past two days. Grrrr, love my truck, but had small issues with it already. First the boot was torn and had to be replaced before i bought it, failed emissions because of a stupid gas cap, keyless entry buzzer is now intermittent for whatever reason, now this......just stupid little crap that i hate dealing with...lol

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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-25-2009, 03:32 PM
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It won't hurt to get it looked at. It's also possible that you have a faulty ABS sensor that is causing the system to react inappropriately. I'm assuming you have 4-wheel ABS and the light ass-end of the truck makes it more likely to kick in the rear, which is actually nice on ice since it keeps your nose pointed in the right direction, but a little weight might make all the difference too. A couple of 50lb tubes of sand over the rear axle is an easy option, and you can use it to get unstuck if you need it!

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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-25-2009, 03:52 PM
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Sounds like you are dealing with a nagging issue too.

I hope you are able to track it down and get it resolved, I'm going to have to wait another week and hope that mother nature is a little more generous with warm weather.

But here's to finding a solution to all our problems and that they are easy and inexpensive to fix!
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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 11:23 AM Thread Starter
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Since it snowed this morning i went out to try and duplicate the problem.

Sure enough, when i turned my locker on (no ABS) and hit the brakes hard, nothing. When the ABS was on, a grinding noise and a whiny mechanical noise as it's coming to a complete stop. If i braked softly, no issues at all, it's only when i mash on the brakes.

Based on what you all said, i guess that's "normal". I still want to check my brake system, but i guess i'm not going to stress about it all week now. If it gets worse, or happens more frequently i'll take it in to have the ABS system looked at since that is covered under warranty. I just don't want to drive over an hour with no ride home to be told that's normal, that would be pretty embarrassing

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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-26-2009, 10:41 PM
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If you have access to 'feeling' your rotor, move your fingernail across it and check how smooth it is. Depending on your wheels, you should be able to get a visual on them and verify if there is excessive grooves. Anything outside of 'pretty smooth' would suggest some issues with your brake pads or calipers. Try and grab a hold of the caliper and see if its firm. If you have a cracked pad or caliper, you can get a really horrid noise. If that noise is NOT from the ABS, your probably gouging your rotors because of a bad pad or caliper, which will only get worse and probably eliminate the option of 'turning' your rotors. Get it checked soon.

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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 10:36 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the tip Jon.

Wouldn't i hear the same noise while the ABS is off as i mentioned? When i flip the locker on in 2hi and mash the brakes, it's fine which is what led me to confirm it was actually the ABS system. I'm hoping to pull my wheels this weekend and have a look, but i drove yesterday in the snow and didn't have any problems, and was only able to duplicate it with the ABS activated and hitting the brakes to where they would lock up. If i can get some help, i don't mind replacing pads and rotors, it isn't that expensive.

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post #21 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-27-2009, 12:11 PM
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True, if it were your pads and rotors you would hear the noise every time you hit the breaks. It dosen't take alot of pedal pressure on slick roads to activate the ABS and when it does, you definately feel it more through the break pedal. It's a totally different sound and feel compared to worn pads and rotors.

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