Does this slider design look like it will hold up? - TTORA Forum
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post #1 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 12:40 AM Thread Starter
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Does this slider design look like it will hold up?

Hey guys. Enclosed are some plans that I drew up on AutoCad. The method of attachment is Dick's Method, so I am not worried about how it attaches at all. I am moreover worried about the actual thickness and size of the tubing than anything.

I'd use round tubing and bend it, but I don't have a bender, nor do I feel like buying one just for this project. I have benders at work, but nothing capable of bending 1/4" thick material easily.

The reason I am doing square is simplicity, and acts as a good step for the Girl. Shes 5' tall and complains the truck is a bithc to get into. So I'm looking for a slider and a step. This is why it bumps up from under the cab (like a round tube)

The 1.75" I feel will be fine, it will be 1/4" thick. The 1" is more of what I am worried about. I'm pretty sure I can get it 1/4" thick. The metal I will be using is 8500 Grade B, or a A36. I was told by my brother who does structial engineering that this is a very strong metal that is easy to weld.

I was also wondering if the spacers should somewhat match up so that there is less stress on the material.

On the plans, the white is the frame and the cab (The cab will be with the 1" body lift installed). The bar going through the frame is where it will bolt on. The red is the sliders and the brracket. The other picture, where the lines are yellow, is looking form the top down.

I can add a couple gussets here and there, if needbe. The 1.75's going into the bracket will definately have more gusseting.

So do you guys think the 1" will hold up? I'd do much bigger but the angle that the rectangle needs to be and such, the angle that I cut it at will be a retangle that measures 1.75X1" square.

Thanks guys!
-Philly
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post #2 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 01:10 AM
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I like the design but I don't know about those 1" tubes. If I were to make sliders in that style, I'd probably use 1.75" and notch the tubes so instead of sitting on the part of the slider that faces the truck, the 1.75" tubes now rest on the bottom part and the part that faces towards the truck. Basically you notch the supports to a 90* angle so you weld onto 2 faces of the outside of the slider. Wow that was really hard to put into words LOL

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post #3 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 01:24 AM Thread Starter
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I was actually going to do that. Basically, cutting out triangles on opposing sides so it rests on the corner. I like it better because more surface area to prevent twisting. Only problem is, it interferes with the cab.

Only way to alleviate it is to bring the inner bar out from the trame more, but it is not under the pinch weld. Would that be a wise choice?

-Phill
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post #4 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 03:48 AM
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I had these built for me, from scratch. They are very strong. I've landed on them and they didn't even move.







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post #5 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 06:39 AM
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.250 wall square tubing with gussets on the top of each frame plate out towards the slider will be very sturdy and trouble free for many years.

IMO you could use 1/8 inch X 1.75 inch wall square tubing as a spacer, if your worried about strength put a 4th of 5th spacer in and evenly space them, that would spread the load better anyways. My sliders are made entirely out of 1/8 inch with the exception of the frame mount, where I went with 3/8s inch. They also weigh in at 112lbs and I used essentially the same design, less the frame bracket design.

Dick made his sliders and brackets out of stainless, you doubled the wall thickness AND went with square wall tubing.

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post #6 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 08:53 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
I had these built for me, from scratch. They are very strong. I've landed on them and they didn't even move.
Again, I would use tound tubing, but I do not have the tooling to bend it.

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post #7 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorcalPR
Again, I would use tound tubing, but I do not have the tooling to bend it.
We bend tubing and send it out all the time for the do it yourself folks, we just charge materials plus $6 a bend.
One thing I would be worried about is the three stand offs to the frame, we have sold dozens and dozens of sets of sliders and only had one bend in 5 years, and that was one of the first sets that I only put 3 stand offs on (thinking, oh 3 will be enough!), it's my personal opinion that an ext. cab truck needs at least 4, and for really hardcore use I like to put 5 in there.
If you do go with the square tubing, I wouldn't use anything over .188 wall, anymore than that and you're just adding unwanted wieght to the truck, oh and stay away from that 1" tube, not only will it not hold up, but I think it will look a little odd as well, maybe use 2" for the main pieces and 1 3/4" for the fill in, or 1 3/4" and 1 1/2", if your set on using two different sizes.
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post #8 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 10:16 AM
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Check out 4Crawler's sliders - he uses 2" square tubing. The "normal" version is .120" wall, the heavy-duty is 0.188" wall. The diagonal pieces then come out to 1.5".

I would highly suggest that you design them so the "inside" rail is as close to the pinchweld as possible. That way when they flex, they don't move much before the weight is transferred into the body mounts.

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post #9 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 11:21 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rokbrkr
We bend tubing and send it out all the time for the do it yourself folks, we just charge materials plus $6 a bend.
Thank you for the offer, but shipping would be a overkill, and not to mention time.

Quote:
One thing I would be worried about is the three stand offs to the frame, we have sold dozens and dozens of sets of sliders and only had one bend in 5 years, and that was one of the first sets that I only put 3 stand offs on (thinking, oh 3 will be enough!), it's my personal opinion that an ext. cab truck needs at least 4, and for really hardcore use I like to put 5 in there.
This is based off of Dick's design, which has been on his truck for years. The middle and rear brackets are wrapped around the frame like a U, and the front bolts intop the frame, and bends down into the tranny crossmember, much like:
|
\ (But less of a angle to bolt into the crossmember)

Quote:
If you do go with the square tubing, I wouldn't use anything over .188 wall, anymore than that and you're just adding unwanted wieght to the truck, oh and stay away from that 1" tube, not only will it not hold up, but I think it will look a little odd as well, maybe use 2" for the main pieces and 1 3/4" for the fill in, or 1 3/4" and 1 1/2", if your set on using two different sizes.
Thanks you. I thought all sliders were made out of .25 material. I will do .188 tubing. I was going to use 2", but it will not allow me to bolt into the frame like I want to. It would have to hang down lower.

I have come up with a new design, taking into all your guys considerations. The new design will be the same from the top down (except the spacers will be 1.75 wide, not 1"). The two bars that run the legnth of the truck will be the same hieght and everything, and the standoffs will be the same legnth. The new design just incorporated Brian's theory on the spacers. I like it much better, and will be doing this.

Took me a while to find out how to do it, but I feel it is worth it. More surface to twist the bars, instead of just one side.

So let the critiquing begin. One theory I was having is having a spacer where the standoff is to better transfer the load, and then centering the spacers off of that. Would this be better than having the spacers evenly spaced like I have them?

-Phill
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post #10 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 12:24 PM
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I suggest you add maybe two more spacers between the inner and outer tubes.

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post #11 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 04:38 PM Thread Starter
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I'll add one more to make 7 total. Thanks Dick.

Any other improvements?

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post #12 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rokbrkr
We bend tubing and send it out all the time for the do it yourself folks, we just charge materials plus $6 a bend.
Off topic, but would you do that for a front bumper too? I have access to a bender but I dont know how to bend and don't feel like wasting tube.
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post #13 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 05:02 PM
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new plans look better. i would definatly add more spacers between the outer and inner tubes. on my sliders and all the ex cab ones that i've built, i used 5 legs, with 5 spacers lined up with each leg on each slider. and fyi, even without any body lift, you have just barely over 2 inches from the bottom of the frame to the bottom of the pinch weld. this is 2" square tubing that i used for the legs. they meet at the very bottom of the frame, and they just clear the pinch weld. of course with heavy use though they do make their own notch into the pinch weld

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post #14 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 05:18 PM
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No no no I am talking about the spacers between the inner and outer tubes. You now have three per side not counting the ends. I want you to add two more per side for a total five of those little spacer pieces between the two tubes. My outer tube bent after a while and I only used three spacers between the tubes.

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post #15 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 06:42 PM Thread Starter
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Ah, thats good to know.

5 it is. Thanks a million dick.

Also, I got pricing today. 40' of 1.75" tubing .120 thick is 140 bucks. Trail-Gear makes the sliders fabbed up already with the legs welded off, but they are included for 145 bucks. If my buddy can't get a good deal on it (he get sa good deal form welding class at my college) I'm just going to buy the trail gear, and use Dicks method of mounting them.

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post #16 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amatoer10
you have just barely over 2 inches from the bottom of the frame to the bottom of the pinch weld. this is 2" square tubing that i used for the legs. they meet at the very bottom of the frame, and they just clear the pinch weld.
This is how mine fit too. Makes it look very nice as everything is real flush.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amatoer10
of course with heavy use though they do make their own notch into the pinch weld
That is why you need a flat, solid piece centered under the pinch weld. You need to run your spacers to the side of the inside rail, not the top as you have it drawn. This will create pressure points, not a smooth distribution of the load into the pinch weld. (and IMHO that's what rock sliders are supposed to do - distribute the load uniformly)

Great CAD work BTW.

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post #17 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-06-2006, 10:09 PM
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Who are you going to have fab these?

'cuz that mitred notch is going to be a SOB to get right - plasma cutter is about the only way

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post #18 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 12:40 AM Thread Starter
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I was going to fab these. I was just going to use a Big band saw I have at work.

Hopefully my buddy can get the price down to about 100 bucks or so. If he can I will make them, if not I'll use Trail-Gear's sliders, with Dicks design on the mount for the frame.

-Phill

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post #19 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorcalPR
.
Also, I got pricing today. 40' of 1.75" tubing .120 thick is 140 bucks.

-Philly
Wow! I just looked this morning when I got to work and a 20' stick of 1-3/4 x 1-3/4 x .120 is $48.80 at my supplier

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post #20 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 08:33 AM
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Ah, thats good to know.

5 it is. Thanks a million dick.

Also, I got pricing today. 40' of 1.75" tubing .120 thick is 140 bucks. Trail-Gear makes the sliders fabbed up already with the legs welded off, but they are included for 145 bucks. If my buddy can't get a good deal on it (he get sa good deal form welding class at my college) I'm just going to buy the trail gear, and use Dicks method of mounting them.

-Philly
I don't know how far you have looked, but the price seems a bit steep on the steel. I think I paid about 40 bucks a stick a couple of years ago. Is this a wholesale place or is it one of those metal by the foot places?

See if you can find a wholesaler that will deal with small/ or part time guys like you and me that may require a 25-50$ minimum requirement of purchase.

Anyways, it might save you a buck or two to let your fingers do the walking in the yellow/ white pages.

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post #21 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-07-2006, 09:13 AM Thread Starter
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They do large orders, there is no minumum. I'll try harder.

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post #22 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-20-2006, 12:41 AM Thread Starter
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Update!

I ditched the square design and opted for some round tube sliders. Props to Anthony (Davis3000) for bending the pipe and nothcing it with me.

All the spacers had a notch on one side. I had to make a template, and copy it to the other side. Then I cut it out with a bandsaw, which then I grinded it with a angle grinder to get it to fit nice to the pipe. To do the template and all the notching, took 3 hours.

I tack welded the inner piece and left all the spacers free. All I have to do is bring up the Cad, measure out the distance on the spacers and tack weld those. I can then fully weld the sliders

Then I can drill the brackets that I ahve bent up and tack that to the legs. I can then tack the legs to the sliders and finish welding. Then Rattle can will do the rest of the job.

It turns out that the 1" body will not be nesecary since I cant weld the legs higher up on the frame (Bolts will be in the way). I will not install the 1" body lift with these sliders.






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post #23 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-20-2006, 09:30 AM
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Doesn't look like it offers much of a step for the lady

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post #24 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-20-2006, 09:50 AM
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Lookin good. I'm wondering about the 1" BL though. Got any pics of the frame attacments?

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post #25 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-20-2006, 09:51 AM
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These ain't no damn sissyfied nerf bars, these be rock sliders. LOL

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post #26 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-20-2006, 11:12 AM Thread Starter
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It's enough step for my gf. It's much better than her sticking her leg in my cab and me practally having to pick her up to put her in the cab. I've actually had to do that a couple times when she was tired.

Dick, it's going to attach with your design. I had my brothers company bend up the brackets. It's 1/4" cold steel.

I may work on the other part of the notching today if I have time. If not, tomorrow I will, and I will also drill the brackets and weld those up. I'd work on it Sunday, but it's prom.

Sunday I will be working on them more for sure. Expect more pics, hehe. I'll take a shot of the clearance, but it clears just fine. The inner tube just has to be sticking out more form the pinch weld. It's offset .875" (The edge of the bar is with the edge of the pinch weld)

Dick, I think your design had 79" or so for the legnth. I originally was going to do 81, but the bender put it at 84" OD. This is the perfect legnth.

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post #27 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-20-2006, 11:42 AM
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Here are mine, .250 wall 2"x2". They are stong as hell. I have come dowm on them full force from about 12" and is shook the shit out of me, but no bending.

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I think your idea is good, but ditch the cad dwg's. I myself used to do a lot of CAD work, mainly with DATACad and used to draw things to death. I soon realized that there is no substitue for just going out there and cutting. I think it is a good idea to have a plan so you don't waste material, but just start cutting and welding, you will proably end up changing your mind before it's all said and done. Good luck!

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post #28 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-20-2006, 11:46 AM
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Then you shouldn't need a body lift because mine doesn't have one. The length was so as not to crowd the sheetmetal and I think it had to do with the cut schedule for the standard length stock I was using.
I'm a cheap bastard that way. Sometimes I'll spend an hour just planning all the cuts for a sheet of plywood so as to leave nothing but sawdust and usable pieces.

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post #29 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-20-2006, 01:36 PM
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They look awful tight to the body. Do they stick out far enough to protect the widest part of the truck?

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post #30 of 80 (permalink) Old 04-20-2006, 01:50 PM
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They aren't attached as yet. Those are just pics of a work in progress.

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