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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-01-2007, 11:51 PM Thread Starter
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auto / 6 speed ?

okay im getting ready to trade in my '03 tundy on a fj , went to two dealers, both said same thing, the 6speed model has a 3K$ premium price add on and the auto has a 5k$ add on. i know the 6speed is a "full time" 4x4 with a varriable clutch in transfercase wich i dont mind, but what wanted to get some oppinoins on pros and cons of auto versus 6speed on this one, i really woulndt mind either one. i will say that it will get lifted, 35"s, sliders and bumps right off the bat. my 04 taco is a 5speed and i love it. what do you guys think? sticker says auto will get 2mpg more, but that really isnt a huge factor since its going to get lifted and wheeled pretty hard
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-02-2007, 01:30 AM
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Buy the base model auto with the convienence package & rear locker, everything else you can add aftermarket for a lot less. I'm lazy and only have two feet so for what I do off-road the auto will do just fine for the next 7-10 years until I do some "Turtle" mods & SAS! With the stock rear locker you can add the ATrac switch for $70 or so vs $2300 as an upgrade package...

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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-02-2007, 05:09 AM
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I would find another dealer and do some more research. $3k add-on for a manual and $5K for the auto?
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-02-2007, 07:48 AM
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Yea, what OlyWaFJ said...you are getting hosed on the price. Around here, they are sitting on the lots and going for $500-1500 under MSRP. I got the convenience package w/rear locker, added the ATRAC switch, hacked it to have ATRAC w/rear locked and it does very well with an OME lift. Do NOT pay any add-on fees, like previously said, find another dealer.
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-02-2007, 12:55 PM
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I've got the A/T and my only gripe has been the same with descending inclines. The gated shifter is a pretty good compromise with the ability to pick a gear without clutching, but I don't like the fact that the A/T defaults to 1st gear when you come to a stop in Lo4WD causing engine rev and wheel spin when starting in 2nd with a manual would ease out of some slippery spots. Keep in mind the different gearing on the manual (6 vs 5 speed) and a lower ratio in 1st and higher in 6th... pretty cool.

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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-02-2007, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fjcruzer
Keep in mind the different gearing on the manual (6 vs 5 speed) and a lower ratio in 1st and higher in 6th... pretty cool.
1st in a lower ratio, numerically higher, as is 6th.. The 6spd has the better 1st and the auto has the better OD...

auto
1st 3.52:1
2nd 2.04:1
3rd 1.40:1
4th 1.00:1
5th 0.72:1


6spd
1st 4.17:1
2nd 2.19:1
3rd 1.49:1
4th 1.19:1
5th 1.00:1
6th 0.85:1 (or .799:1 depending on source)

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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-02-2007, 05:16 PM Thread Starter
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i will definitly get the rear locker and atrac button, the rear locker is priceless just like in my taco my taco.
the dealers cant hardly keep them in stock around here. a trd edition had a 10k$ fair market value mark up on it!! it sold for like 45k$! ! i found a blue one i want that is a 6speed for about 30-31k$
a had a buddy that went and bought a '07 taco extended cab 4x4,non trd and when he saw that for 2 grand more he could have had a fj he almost cried, im not gonna get the sliders, may get a roof rack, but im thinking coil overs, upper arms, rear springs and shocks, and maybe that demello front bump(looks bad ass), and 305-70-17 mtr's or coopers
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-03-2007, 08:13 PM
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If you are in the U.S. you dont have to change the UCA's. They are the same as the taco and will be fine. If you have the canadian one then you gotta change them. I have no idea why toyota did that but its a fact.
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-03-2007, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOVADS
i will definitly get the rear locker and atrac button, the rear locker is priceless just like in my taco my taco.
the dealers cant hardly keep them in stock around here. a trd edition had a 10k$ fair market value mark up on it!! it sold for like 45k$! ! i found a blue one i want that is a 6speed for about 30-31k$
a had a buddy that went and bought a '07 taco extended cab 4x4,non trd and when he saw that for 2 grand more he could have had a fj he almost cried, im not gonna get the sliders, may get a roof rack, but im thinking coil overs, upper arms, rear springs and shocks, and maybe that demello front bump(looks bad ass), and 305-70-17 mtr's or coopers
That pricing is crazy! Do an internet search and make some calls if you are serious about buying an FJ. It would be worth the drive/plane ticket to save that much money. I bought mine in May for $500 under MSRP, not a great deal but certainly better than any mark up. I negotiated mine 100% on-line, had a firm price came down with deposit, picked it up 2 days later after it arrived and went through dealer prep.

DON'T PAY A DEALER MARK UP...
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-03-2007, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnwhite
If you are in the U.S. you dont have to change the UCA's. They are the same as the taco and will be fine. If you have the canadian one then you gotta change them. I have no idea why toyota did that but its a fact.
what the hell are you talking about?
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-04-2007, 08:07 AM
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So all 6 speed FJ Cruisers have full time 4wd while the auto is selectable? I did not know that was the case, why would they do something like that, doesn't make much sense to me?
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-04-2007, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pat161
So all 6 speed FJ Cruisers have full time 4wd while the auto is selectable? I did not know that was the case, why would they do something like that, doesn't make much sense to me?

Thats how it is, I thinks its weird too.. but oh well... on 4runners all v8's are fulltime 4wd, where the v6's are part time, with the option of fulltime...

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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-04-2007, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by badmoonrising
what the hell are you talking about?
He mentions upper control arms. the u.s. fj's can be lifted 3" with no problems as they have the same ones as the taco. In canada they are different and you have to change them. ok.
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-06-2007, 01:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pat161
So all 6 speed FJ Cruisers have full time 4wd while the auto is selectable? I did not know that was the case, why would they do something like that, doesn't make much sense to me?
Yes, the 6 spd has a center diff and is what most companies would call full time all wheel drive. I guess Toyota calls it full time 4 wheel drive because with the traction control, it is clearly way more traction than simple old all wheel drive. That along with the stability control is an awesome package for snow. I canít believe the way it rocks in the snow.

When you go into 4WD you lock the center diff and you loose the traction and stability control. The way it rips in the all wheel drive, I canít figure out what the hell 4WD high is good for in this package. Then when you go to low range, you have A-Trac available. At least you have lotís of options.

Why the full time mode on an auto is rear wheel drive instead, I have no idea. In fact, when I bought my 6 spd, the salesman told me about this and I thought he was full of bull. Much to my surprise when I got my truck, he was right.

Based on some stuff in the manual, I think that there is a cheaper model with manual and regular rear wheel drive. Iím guessing that that may be what you get if you donít get the option with traction control. I could be wrong - I havenít really checked into it.

Hawk

FJ w/ 6 spd, A-Trac/Locker Hack, Rails, 33s
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-06-2007, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by hawkonthewing
Yes, the 6 spd has a center diff and is what most companies would call full time all wheel drive. I guess Toyota calls it full time 4 wheel drive because with the traction control, it is clearly way more traction than simple old all wheel drive. That along with the stability control is an awesome package for snow. I canít believe the way it rocks in the snow.

When you go into 4WD you lock the center diff and you loose the traction and stability control. The way it rips in the all wheel drive, I canít figure out what the hell 4WD high is good for in this package. Then when you go to low range, you have A-Trac available. At least you have lotís of options.

Why the full time mode on an auto is rear wheel drive instead, I have no idea. In fact, when I bought my 6 spd, the salesman told me about this and I thought he was full of bull. Much to my surprise when I got my truck, he was right.

Based on some stuff in the manual, I think that there is a cheaper model with manual and regular rear wheel drive. Iím guessing that that may be what you get if you donít get the option with traction control. I could be wrong - I havenít really checked into it.
Full time 4wd and awd can be considered the same. Full time 4wd does not have to have traction control. There was a bunch of chevies that had it in the 70's, no traction control back then... Theory: full time 4wd can be locked into part time, AWD cannot...... Its called full time 4wd because you can operate it full time, vs part time which is a no no on bare pvmnt... Full time wont bind due to the center diff unlocked (in the case of the 4runner and FJ a 40/60 torsen)... Personally I prefer the mode the auto has, as you have 2wd, full time 4wd hi and lo, part time 4wd hi and low... more options... and traction control that does awesome... IMO I want to be in 2wd on the hwy, if I wanted a full time 4wd rig I would have bought a land cruiser, and is one reason I wouldnt get the V8 4runner, and 6 spd FJ...

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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-06-2007, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ah64id
Full time 4wd and awd can be considered the same. Full time 4wd does not have to have traction control. There was a bunch of chevies that had it in the 70's, no traction control back then... Theory: full time 4wd can be locked into part time, AWD cannot...... Its called full time 4wd because you can operate it full time, vs part time which is a no no on bare pvmnt... Full time wont bind due to the center diff unlocked (in the case of the 4runner and FJ a 40/60 torsen)...
Itís a drag when basic terminology gets confused by marketing people because then it gets difficult to even have an intelligent conversation. Itís my impression (and I havenít studied this carefully) most car companies in the past have called a basic center differential setup AWD. 4WD, on the other hand, is a term that was reserved to describe a rear wheel drive vehicle with a transfer case that only allowed the front drive shaft to turn when you shifted the case to 4WD. Yes, there have been some variations on this theme not worth mentioning; but when car companies start calling AWD (or something else like Jeepís Quadra Trac, for example) full time 4WD, I call marketing bull shit. Donít fall for this nonsense. 4WD and AWD are not the same and there is no such thing as "Full Time 4WD" as you correctly point out. And, of course, AWD with a locked center differential is functional exactly the same as 4WD.

I am just saying this to clarify the terminology. I believe we are saying the same thing even though I find some of your language confusing. I am sure that most of us have found that 98% of the general population does not have a fawkin clue about the difference between AWD and 4WD and canít understand it even if you explain it to them with endless drawings and diagrams shoved up their arse. On the other hand, I believe you and most others on this board understand it very well.

That said, things do start getting interesting when you start adding and mixing gadgets like diff locks, LSD, and computerized brakes that are programed to control spin and slippage.

I think myself and other were surprised that Toyota used AWD with the manual rig and a basic T case with the auto. I dunno, maybe thatís not odd, but it surprised me. I, like you, really wanted regular rear wheel drive for basic driving for a number of reasons I wonít get into; but, I wouldnít have given up the manual 6 spd to get it. Short story, now that I have been playing in the snow with the AWD with the traction/stability control, I am about to be converted. Iím telling you, IT ROCKS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ah64id
Personally I prefer the mode the auto has, as you have 2wd, full time 4wd hi and lo, part time 4wd hi and low
This part doesnít sound correct to me. I didnít think that the auto setup has a center diff. Can anybody help with that?

Hawk

FJ w/ 6 spd, A-Trac/Locker Hack, Rails, 33s
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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-07-2007, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnwhite
He mentions upper control arms. the u.s. fj's can be lifted 3" with no problems as they have the same ones as the taco. In canada they are different and you have to change them. ok.
They both come off the same boat from Japan, there is no difference between Canadian and American sold FJC's.
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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-07-2007, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkonthewing
This part doesnít sound correct to me. I didnít think that the auto setup has a center diff. Can anybody help with that?
My bad, I thought that FJ's had the mulitimode setup like the 4runners do.. thats a bummer, thats a sweet setup...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkonthewing
4WD and AWD are not the same and there is no such thing as "Full Time 4WD" as you correctly point out.
I never said there was no such thing as full time 4wd, as there is... sure in many cases its synonomous with AWD, but it is an actuall term.... All the vehicles I have seen with AWD dont have the option to lock the center, or low range. Full Time 4wd offers a lockable center and low range... this being the difference...

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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-07-2007, 05:53 PM
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They both come off the same boat from Japan, there is no difference between Canadian and American sold FJC's.
no they dont they are different in fact a diff that causes you to only be able to lift the canadian 1 1/2 IN W/O replacing the uca's where as the american mod can go up to 3 in w/o change. Go to an FJ forum and ask the guys w/ canadian FJ's they used the taco uca for the canadian version
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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-07-2007, 06:35 PM
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no they dont they are different in fact a diff that causes you to only be able to lift the canadian 1 1/2 IN W/O replacing the uca's where as the american mod can go up to 3 in w/o change. Go to an FJ forum and ask the guys w/ canadian FJ's they used the taco uca for the canadian version
Word brother!
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post #21 of 21 (permalink) Old 01-07-2007, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkonthewing
This part doesnít sound correct to me. I didnít think that the auto setup has a center diff. Can anybody help with that?
The MT uses a Torsen center diff. The AT does not. The tcase in the AT is a part time tcase that is only in 4wd when you select 4wd. The MT is always sending output to the front wheels. The AT also uses the ADD front diff where the MT does not.

For those who want the MT with a part time tcase you can always install an Inchworm geared tcase. This will convert your full-time FJ's into part-time FJ's. The other benefit of using the Inchworm tcase is that lower gears can be run in the tcase.

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