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Total Chaos heim joint UCA's

14K views 21 replies 10 participants last post by  Tacitos 
#1 ·
Is anybody running the heim joint uca's from Total Chaos? And how do you like them vs your old uca's?
 
#11 ·
I have heims in the upper arms right now, and they're a big step up from poly bushings. They are not exactly set & forget, and you need to take care when installing, adjusting and aligning...but if you are the type who likes to dig in, IMHO it just doesn't get better than bearing pivots.

Haven't noticed any "vibration" or anything else strange as a result. Make sure everything is tight, not worn, spring rate isn't too stiff, etc...they will be fine.

The uniball joint, now that's another story...heimed they may be, but I wouldn't ever buy another TC upper arm, nor would I recommend them to anyone else.

-Sean
 
#12 ·
The uniball joint, now that's another story...heimed they may be, but I wouldn't ever buy another TC upper arm, nor would I recommend them to anyone else.

-Sean
im not trying to start shit, but this is out of pure curiosity, but why?
 
#15 ·
There is a huge, shit-filled drama thread elsewhere. I am not gonna repost it here.

The fact is, if you are using off-the-shelf parts from Kartek to build a kit with a 1" bore uniball, you're going to be using a 1" to 3/4" adapter.

You'll need to clock the uniball so that the misalignment spacers do not bind at full compression, and droop needs to be limited just before the joints bind as well. This is how your stock joints work...they can angle farther over at full compression, and the stock shock limits the droop angle. Since the uniball clocking is fixed, and the 1" to 3/4" adapter does have a limit, and droop is more readily available on stock arms than compression, the inevitable choice is to clock as much droop as possible in to the arms, meaning you must be damn sure you are running the exact same compression stops as the designer did on the test truck. You also need to ensure that the joints can never, ever bind on droop either...all the pictures of busted spindle rings on 1st-gen trucks are the result of bound suspension, either at compression or droop.

Before you run them, you need to cycle the suspension and determine if you are running a bump stop which is compatible with the compression misalignment of that 1" bore uniball and the 3/4" adapter they use. That is the "buyer beware" part of this, it is something every owner should be doing anyway, Chaos will even tell you this (if they're drug in to a shit-filled thread elsewhere)...but I do not think that long bumpstops should be an assumed part of a kit designed for additional travel, nor do I think travel should need to be limited to accommodate a major joint, particularly on compression, when the joints are clocked such that droop will bring the halfshaft in contact with the lip of the inner CV joint.

Lack of a lock nut on the long bolt through the upper control arms means that as grease is eliminated from between the arm/bushing interface through use, the poly bushings will begin to grab the arm and the large flat washers. Eventually, because the bolt is torqued to a significant amount, the arm, bushing and washer will begin to turn the nut. This wears the bolt, and introduces a sickening, extremely difficult to identify "clunk" in the front end. This isn't a Chaos problem, it's an Everyone problem who specs poly bushings in the upper control arm without providing a lock or jamb nut. The design of the lower arm doesn't allow the same thing to happen. In my experience, grease ports are a stopgap measure, and must be combined with regular maintenance...not a big deal if you're used to it, but it means loosening the bolt so the washers can move, shooting grease down the port until there's clean coming out the ends, then re-torquing. Easy job, but raise your hands if you do this. Properly done, the washers and sleeve remain fixed on the truck, and the arm and bushings rotate around the sleeve, against the washers. If the sleeve is too short, there will be too much friction between bushing and washer, leading to the problem I mentioned before. Yes, my sleeves were too short, even the replacement sleeves were too short, when I rebuilt the arms. The best solution was regular maintenance and a jamb nut...no more problems, tho the poly bushings still squeaked like the kid in that WoW video in General. I never had a problem with the uniball squeaking, ever...just corrosion, but then everything corrodes in the Midwest. Running heim joints solves the majority of the worst problems I had with the arms, living in a place that doesn't salt the shit out of their roads solves the corrosion problem...suffice to say I'm very happy to see companies offering arms which rotate on a bearing, they are far and away better than the metal-to-metal stock configuration, and don't have the awkward maintenance issues of poly bushings. When the heims start to get loose, replace them and get an alignment...MUCH easier than replacing worn poly bushings, or all the bullshit necessary to properly grease them.

This was all from my own experience on a 1st-gen Tundra. The "good things" I hear about parts with which I've had less-than-stellar experience seem to be from two camps, people who don't know any better and stay within the realm of "basically stock" trucks (most of them), and people who assume everyone else is checking everything before they run (very few, but they exist). I no longer run Chaos arms, and the arms I had were sold for cheap to a buddy along with a different company's adapter which did not exhibit the same design limitations as the off-the-shelf parts. The arms I do run now were a one-off (at the time), at my request because I was sick of the poly bushing bullshit.

Bermise asked me via PM for some advice on the heimed arms...no problem. First and foremost, before you adjust anything, make sure you pull the coil (not the entire coilover, just the coil...measure exposed thread with calipers so it's easy to put everything back together) and cycle the suspension (it's easy, use a floor jack). You're inspecting first for binding at the joint before metal-to-metal contact in compression, then to find the first joint which binds on droop. If your bump stops are long enough, and coilovers short enough, you're ready to mess with the heims.

With the heims, call and ask if the joints are pre-set on a jig to the correct length. Also ask if any threadlock was used. If the answer to both questions is yes, head to the alignment shop.

If no to the threadlock question, grab your calipers, pick a good reference on the heim joint (base of the head, OD of the cutout for the joint, basically anything but the ball or bore of the actual joint) and measure length for all four heims (they should be the same). If they're not, but they're close, pick a good number and set both rears exactly the same, do the same with both fronts, write it all down, pull them apart, throw some threadlock in there (I used blue...you want to be able to move them later), and reset everything with the jamb nuts hand-tight. Put them on the truck (attached to coil bucket and spindle) and crank down the jamb nuts. IIRC the nuts are either 1-1/8" or 1-1/4"...pick up a big spanner from Napa, as of right now, that's a necessary tool. Then head to the alignment shop.

If they're not set in a jig from the factory, post back, that's a long response but not difficult or painful, I just don't wanna type it out if you don't need it.

-Sean
 
#16 ·
Great info there Sean! I'm running the All-Pro uca's and I know exactly what you mean by the "hard to identify clunk" in the front end. Every time I would hit the brakes hard and let off quickly I could feel that clunk. Couldn't figure out what is was until I was checking out the uca's one day and noticed I could spin the washers by hand! I tightend up the nut and the clunk went away. It still comes loose, I even use red locktite to no avail. I thought about using a jam nut but there are only a couple of threads showing. If I tighten the nut to factory spec 86 ft lb's,the arm won't even move. That's when it starts making a lot of noise. These uca's are proving to be a real pita.:lmao:
 
#17 ·
Thanks for the helpful post, I am grateful. You do not have to worry about typing a long post, Total Chaos said they are preset. But they also told me that my setup may need some minor adjusting and they recommended a professional to do that if neccessary. Thanks again for your help.
 
#20 ·
Damn...

I'm planning on getting coilovers at the end of the year and was thinking of getting these upper arms because they allow for camber adjustments but after reading that, not so sure now.

Are those billet ICON upper control arms any better a design than the TC that the OP has? I know they cost a bit more but if they present less problems, they might be worth it?

If the new TC design and ICON arms both have these same types of hassles, what is a 3rd or 4th alternative for correcting camber on a 3" lift? If these 2 options are not the way to go, is my only choice to back down the coilovers and run at 2-2.5" of lift, instead of 3? Or is there a way to shim something, to get to zero or slightly negative camber? The sides of my fronts are wearing on the outside and it was aligned on the same day the lift went in. Gonna bring it back in and see if the alignment can be made better. My eyeballs can't see any definate sign of positive camber (they 'look' straight) and the tire PSI's up front are at 40.
 
#21 ·
I don't know how TC is clocking the joints on these arms, nor do I know how they are clocked on any of the other 1" bore uniballs running 3/4" bolts through the adapter, so I can't say if these or any other arms have similar problems to what I experienced. If your bumps are the right length already, they'll work fine, go drive it like you stole it. The key is to check first, not just install and go mobbing around til something breaks. I'm not saying "Chaos parts are crap", I'm saying "certain Chaos parts need either a redesign or more communication to the buyer as far as what is required to run those parts." Face it, TC sells all sorts of shit to the bolt-on market, which is full of people like me who knew shit-all about suspension when we got them. We ran the parts, some of us broke stuff before we learned better, maybe the design has changed, or maybe we're just expected to buy spindle gussets instead, I dunno. I'm not gonna buy their stuff anymore because I feel burned on two different designs involving blingy parts that didn't get the job done, but I can also say that if your suspension is properly bumped and strapped, that arm will work great for you. So will any other setup, with the suspension properly limited. The difference is having someone say "inspect it before you drive it" vs making the assumption that because it came from a desert shop, it'll bolt right up without further work on the buyer's part.

I really, really like heims in the upper arms. The joints don't dry up and bind like the poly bushings...sure, they wear, but they don't bind up and back the nut off the mounting bolt, or squawk when the suspension moves, or take a ton of regular service just to operate smooth. They also offer a much wider range of adjustment than the alignment cams alone. I'm sure the IVD arms will work similarly, assuming once again that you have inspected and adjusted bump and droop limiters so that the uniball is not binding in the cup. This style of arm will IMHO work far better than arms riding on poly bushings. It's not really a new idea, it's just that poly is cheaper for guys like us. Don't let the adjustment scare you, it's really easy...I guess Chaos is just covering their ass, telling you to let a professional adjust it...that would make me a "professional" and I'm certainly not :lmao:.

Personally, if I were gonna get another set of arms, I'd get spherical bearings mounted horizontal on the arm pivots (duh), and the biggest spherical bearing I could find for the top of the spindle.

The kicker to saying "have a professional do it", is that major adjustments mean removing the arm from the truck :cool:.

For you to do it, you need calipers, appropriate spanner (I wouldn't recommend a big crescent, but it'll do if you've nothing else), baseline alignment, level suspension, threadlock, good eye for small adjustments, money for a second alignment, and a lot of patience. You'll have to do it anyway, when the heims wear out.

You make the adjustments the opposite of how you adjust the lower arm. Like I said, not hard. If you get these, just make sure your suspension isn't binding anywhere before you start messing around.

I have a 2K Tundra with a bunch of stuff done to it, currently under the knife after trashing the shackles and hangers. Cycle your suspension :D...it'll keep you out of trouble and keep your shit from breaking :lmao:.

Chad, ask BadBradHaz about the tire wear if you haven't already...he might have some suggestions.

-Sean
 
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