Why not larger CVs? - TTORA Forum
 
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-06-2005, 02:14 PM Thread Starter
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Why not larger CVs?

This is a newbie question I have always wondered about.

Is the aftermarket weak for increased reliability in IFS components?

I have seen a couple of places on line that make direct drop in higher strength alloy CVs for the stock set up but no aftermarket kits that would allow for a larger CVs or a complete IFS dif replacement such as what occurs with SAS D44s or D60s outers and knuckles and such. Is there such a thing?

It seems as if the only alternative is to stick with the stock set up or do a SAS?

As I see it, there could be a nitch for those whom want to upgrade their reliability with larger tires and lockers but would like to buy a bolt in or direct part swap out drivetrain components as a nice alternative to a SAS.

For me the SAS thing has a nitch, but so does IFS.

Has this been looked into by the aftermarket?
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-06-2005, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WallyP226
This is a newbie question I have always wondered about.

Is the aftermarket weak for increased reliability in IFS components?

I have seen a couple of places on line that make direct drop in higher strength alloy CVs for the stock set up but no aftermarket kits that would allow for a larger CVs or a complete IFS dif replacement such as what occurs with SAS D44s or D60s outers and knuckles and such. Is there such a thing?

It seems as if the only alternative is to stick with the stock set up or do a SAS?

As I see it, there could be a nitch for those whom want to upgrade their reliability with larger tires and lockers but would like to buy a bolt in or direct part swap out drivetrain components as a nice alternative to a SAS.

For me the SAS thing has a nitch, but so does IFS.

Has this been looked into by the aftermarket?
When you start upgrading components for strength - something else becomes the weaker link-

What are the other components on each side of my CV-s
Manual hubs and diff - both of which are more expensive to replace
(although I carry both spare hubs & CV shafts when wheeling)

Ugrading strength of component a is good until it is at the expense of the other components.

Just curious? Have you managed to trash a cv shaft from wheeling yet?
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-06-2005, 03:00 PM
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As the post above mentionsI want the CV to break if something has to go.


Our IFS has a little 7.5" ring gear and they do break! It's easier and cheaper to replace a CV than a R&P. You can avoid breaks by keeping the tire size reasonable and not cutting the wheels into a bind and standing on the skinny. If anything I want the wheels to slip before anything breaks. Traction and torque(Impact/spike torque usually) are what breaks driveline parts. Drive with grace and your parts will last.

I wonder if my old Taco is more Taco or more rust by now.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-06-2005, 03:31 PM
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CV's do break, but those breaks represent a small fraction of wheelers. There are "beefier" ones, but after figuring out costs, etc... it's much, much cheaper just to replace OEM ones as needed.

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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-06-2005, 04:12 PM
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probably because the cost to benifit ratio isnt that good. i went through 30+ CV's in over a 3 year period, went through a couple ring and pinions, and exploded the housing the last time it broke. but then again i actually wheeled pretty damn hard with IFS so i may be an exception. i think the stock CV's have a good breaking point since you will break expensive shit with them being any stronger. just my opinion though

just a POS buggy
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-06-2005, 05:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grillmasterp
When you start upgrading components for strength - something else becomes the weaker link-

What are the other components on each side of my CV-s
Manual hubs and diff - both of which are more expensive to replace
(although I carry both spare hubs & CV shafts when wheeling)

Ugrading strength of component a is good until it is at the expense of the other components.

Just curious? Have you managed to trash a cv shaft from wheeling yet?
Nope, I have not, tore the CV boots a couple of times but thats about it. Banged the heck out of the skids, enough so I welded up my own, but the CVs I have yet to have any problems with.

I run stock tires, stock all the way around for reliability. The way I figure, Toyota spent millions on making the Tacoma reliable in stock form, why mess with success? I might consider a trade up in tire size and a lift, but only if I could remain first and foremost reliable. I am well aware that anytime one thing is changed it effects everything else, and thus to do something right meaning reliable and safe many other things have to be changed as well at a fair expense.

I was just curious if this had been considered and if so what was available, and importanty as many of the posts to this point, what were the ramifcations of doing so.

I personally don't believe IFS sucks they put IFS on multi-ton vehicles so its a sturdy enough design, its only down fall is articulation ie rock crawling. I believe the lack of performance in rock crawling has to do with a current lack of design development.
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-07-2005, 12:51 AM
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Those large trucks with IFS, for example the H1 Hummer, (Im not sure bout others but I do know the H1...) has gear reduction hubs which allows for the steep angle of the control arms and great ground clearance and allows the CVs to run at less of an angle since they connect to the gear hub above the center of the wheel, putting less stress on them.

Not exactly how I wanted to say it but best I could put it. Also, you want the weakest link to #1 be the cheapest to replace #2 the easiest to repair.

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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-07-2005, 01:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WallyP226
This is a newbie question I have always wondered about.

Is the aftermarket weak for increased reliability in IFS components?

I have seen a couple of places on line that make direct drop in higher strength alloy CVs for the stock set up but no aftermarket kits that would allow for a larger CVs or a complete IFS dif replacement such as what occurs with SAS D44s or D60s outers and knuckles and such. Is there such a thing?

It seems as if the only alternative is to stick with the stock set up or do a SAS?

As I see it, there could be a nitch for those whom want to upgrade their reliability with larger tires and lockers but would like to buy a bolt in or direct part swap out drivetrain components as a nice alternative to a SAS.

For me the SAS thing has a nitch, but so does IFS.

Has this been looked into by the aftermarket?
they are out there but they ain't cheap.

the cheapest upgraded outer joints (but utilizing OE shafts) are the CV-Unlimiteds at around $700/pr. Alpro has some with upgraded shafts for a little more.

next come the custom axles at around $1500ea. and they go up from there.

but like others have noted...you'll start exploding your front diff if you get the axles too beefy.

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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-07-2005, 04:39 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hytenor
they are out there but they ain't cheap.

the cheapest upgraded outer joints (but utilizing OE shafts) are the CV-Unlimiteds at around $700/pr. Alpro has some with upgraded shafts for a little more.

next come the custom axles at around $1500ea. and they go up from there.

but like others have noted...you'll start exploding your front diff if you get the axles too beefy.
I do appreciate the replies, and believe that there is a rule of physics that says there is no such thing as a free lunch. Want to play harder, pony up because its gonna cost to modifiy something and do it right. Every time the design parameters are exceeded, failures start to occur left and right, and today "just enough" strength is the way things are designed and produced.

I have thought a bit about portal axles, and they are a durable/ reliable way to go, monster trucks with 1500+HP and ton's of torque run them for the same reasons, big tires and boat loads of torqe and horsepower and the need for some reliability.

I saw an interesting buggie a while back with hydrolic "L" shaped suspension arms, it had something like 4 feet of up and down motion as well as the ability to increase or decrease the wheel base as well. While obviosly not street legal, it was interesting to watch it move over rocks, changing wheel base length. I think it had something like 7 feet total of articulation front to back and 4 feet side to side. Is this the next break through in design? I dunno? I am open to new technology

I am far from an engineer, but enjoy reading about design, theory, whats new, and whats coming out. Most importantly, just getting out and doing it.

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