fuse block and relay question - TTORA Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-09-2006, 05:37 PM Thread Starter
Veteran Member
 
cooper4x4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Coppell, TX
Posts: 3,595
Send a message via MSN to cooper4x4
fuse block and relay question

Currently I have an auxillary fuse block bolted to the firewall for all of my accessories (lights, CB, etc). To clean up the engine compartment and to protect it from the elements, I want to move the fuse block and all relays into the cab somewhere and run the wiring under the carpet for the accessories. My intial thought is to mount the block and relays behind the rear seat of the DC on the "cardboard" rear wall. I think a bolt with a washer on the back should be able to hold everything. If not then I could add a piece of sheet metal behind the "cardboard" for extra support. I could run a ground wire out the rubber grommet on the rear cab wall and ground it at the frame.

Does anyone see a potential problem with this setup?
Anyone else have any possible suggestions?
Thanks.

2002 Limited Doublecab 4x4

Toyota Trail Riders

Last edited by cooper4x4; 02-09-2006 at 05:43 PM.
cooper4x4 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-09-2006, 06:18 PM
Veteran Member
 
jessevic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 1,336
I put my fuseblock for my sat radio/stereo/deck/etc in the space created when I went from the stock 2DIN deck to a clarion DIN deck. There is quite a bit of room back there, the only problem is that it isnt that easy to access quickly. Just an option for you.

Current
2004 V6 Extended Cab Auto

Sold and Missed
2008 V6 Extended Cab 6-SPD
2003 V6 Extended Cab 5-SPD

Custom stereo and hidden 10" sub
jessevic is offline  
post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-09-2006, 06:29 PM
Veteran Member
 
hk'dontoys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: pennsauken, n.j.
Posts: 554
why can't you just seal the fuse block and leave it where it is? seems like such a lot of work especially when there is more stuff than that to worry about from submerging in water if its not protected.

2001 tacoma d/c, with never enough extras!
hk'dontoys is offline  
post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-09-2006, 06:40 PM Thread Starter
Veteran Member
 
cooper4x4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Coppell, TX
Posts: 3,595
Send a message via MSN to cooper4x4
The main reason I want to do it is becaue I have at least 5 power wires going through the rubber grommet in the firewall, probably more than that. I want to change that to just one power wire. Things just need to be cleaned up.

2002 Limited Doublecab 4x4

Toyota Trail Riders
cooper4x4 is offline  
post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-09-2006, 06:43 PM
Veteran Member
 
Dick Foster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Nevada City, NorCal
Posts: 12,878
Why would you use a rubber grommet on a ground wire? Just ground it to the cab. LOL

I admit to being Crazy but I'm not Stupid
Dick Foster is online now  
post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-09-2006, 10:04 PM Thread Starter
Veteran Member
 
cooper4x4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Coppell, TX
Posts: 3,595
Send a message via MSN to cooper4x4
There are not too many bolts in that area of the cab to ground it to. I would rather not drill any holes in the cab and figured it would be easier to run it to the frame.

2002 Limited Doublecab 4x4

Toyota Trail Riders
cooper4x4 is offline  
post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-10-2006, 09:41 AM Thread Starter
Veteran Member
 
cooper4x4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Coppell, TX
Posts: 3,595
Send a message via MSN to cooper4x4
Ttt

2002 Limited Doublecab 4x4

Toyota Trail Riders
cooper4x4 is offline  
post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-10-2006, 02:05 PM
Veteran Member
 
Dick Foster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Nevada City, NorCal
Posts: 12,878
Well make one then be sure to scrape away some paint so you get a good metal to metal contact. Then do what I did and beef up the ground wire from the battery to the chassis and using some heavy braid or welding cable, I also made a ground connection from the block to the frame. What will welding on it all the time along with the extra lights, compressors and what not, good grounding can't hurt, especially in an EFI vehicle. It's easy to do and cheap insurance to make sure that you have a good solid ground system to run all of that stuff with.

I admit to being Crazy but I'm not Stupid
Dick Foster is online now  
post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-10-2006, 02:29 PM
Veteran Member
 
Bear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 11,173
Brad, one thing you might want to conside is that you want your fuses and relays as close to your power source as you can get them. Less chance of over heating a wire that way which if you let get too hot will ignite.

Funny how you and I seem to be shadowing each other on projects. After I get the stuff I am working finished, I was going to start installing a fuse block to clean up the battery area as well.

BEAR
OVERKILL IS AN UNDERRATED ACHIEVEMENT

Originally Posted by abbott
remember, in the world of cars and trucks, its not cubic inches, its cubic dollars.
GO SPURS GO!!!!
Bear is offline  
post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-10-2006, 02:30 PM Thread Starter
Veteran Member
 
cooper4x4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Coppell, TX
Posts: 3,595
Send a message via MSN to cooper4x4
I would use heavy gauge wire for the main power to handle the power load. I don't think I will have a problem with wires overheating. Just an FYI, www.12voltguy.com sells some nice fuse blocks for pretty cheap.

2002 Limited Doublecab 4x4

Toyota Trail Riders
cooper4x4 is offline  
post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-10-2006, 02:35 PM
Veteran Member
 
Bear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 11,173
Thanks for the link I need to book mark it for future reference.

What I meant (and as soon as I hit the post button knew it was not clear) about keeping your relays close to the battery is this. You get a constant voltage from a 12volt source, but think about if you did not have a relay between the battery and the accesory? What would could happen? If you have the relay close to the battery you more of the proper voltage flowing to the accessory for the longer distance.

Hell I know what I mean just can't explain it. Dick should be able to describe what I am talking about better than I can

Here's the Pitch Dick! hit out of the park for me!

BEAR
OVERKILL IS AN UNDERRATED ACHIEVEMENT

Originally Posted by abbott
remember, in the world of cars and trucks, its not cubic inches, its cubic dollars.
GO SPURS GO!!!!
Bear is offline  
post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-10-2006, 05:06 PM
Veteran Member
 
Dick Foster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Nevada City, NorCal
Posts: 12,878
I think what you're getting at is what is called IR drop. It the voltage drop across the resistance of the wire. The smaller the wire diameter is the more resistance it has (R is Resistance bit) and the longer the wire is the more resistance it has so more poor is lost (that the drop part their talking about voltage but it's really power) the higher the current is (I is the current part) and the smaller and or longer the wire is . P=EI where P is power in watts E is voltage in volts and I is current in amps and P=Isq.R. Let's say you have a wire of a certian gauge, say 20 gauge at .0119 ohms per foot. Say you're gonna run some rocks lights for the rear wheels and they are 55 watt lamps. For two lights that's 110 Watts/14 Volts (the truck is running) = about 7.9 amps that the lights want. Say that 20 gauge wire is 15 feet long so that is about .2 ohms of resistance from the wire. That works out to about 12.5 watts of power lost to heat in the wire. The wasted power drops the voltage to the lights so the lights aren't as bright either by roughly 10%. If you used 16 gauge wire instead the resistance is .00473 per foot or only 0.07 ohms which is less than half of the resistance the 20 gauge had.

Wire Resistance
Gauge per foot
4 .000292
6 .000465
8 .000739
10 .00118
12 .00187
14 .00297
16 .00473
18 .00751
20 .0119
22 .0190
24 .0302
26 .0480
28 .0764

And the other way of looking at it is Copper wire resistance table AWG Feet/Ohm.
This is for round a trip i.e. both wires pos and neg. Double the distance for a positive lead and a chassis return if you have and use good grounds.

10 490.2
12 308.7
14 193.8
16 122.3
18 76.8
20 48.1
22 30.3
24 19.1
26 12.0
28 7.55

Ideally the relay would be at the load or close to the lights in this case. That way the relay contacts (they have resistance too) doesn't have to dissipate the power that is wasted in the wires. Practically speaking that's too much wireing to wire the supply leads and the coil so just put them where they are easy to get to.
Use the largest wire you can and put a fuse close to the battery or power source. The fuse is there to protect the wire from getting hot and setting fire to your truck. I won't help much if the fuse is somewhere after the short circuit to ground because the fuse won't blow and the wire will just continue to heat up and destroy stuff and maybe set the truck on fire in the process.

Size the wire for the load and wire length and size the fuse to the wire size and again put the fuse close to the battery so you don't burn your truck down.
It's OK to run a large wire with a big fuse that's close to the battery to feed an aux fuse block with smaller fuses that then feed various stuff like lights and compressors. I have one mounted under the hood on the passenger side firewall. It is feed from the battery with 8 gauge wire and is protected with a 40 amp fuse. The aux fuse block feeds the rock lights (3 pairs/3 fuses) the air compressor (20 amps), underhood lights (2 amps for LEDs) and soon some a couple of line locks at about and amp each.

I admit to being Crazy but I'm not Stupid
Dick Foster is online now  
post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-10-2006, 06:48 PM Thread Starter
Veteran Member
 
cooper4x4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Coppell, TX
Posts: 3,595
Send a message via MSN to cooper4x4
Dick, I want to get two of THESE and mount them in the back. I planned on running a 8 gauge power wire to the blocks and splicing the wire to go to both blocks. I will be running 4 offroad lights (2 are 130W KCs, other two are walmart lights), 4 rock lights (55W ea), Cobra CB, and Ford Taurus elec fan. How big of a fuse do you think I would need on the main power wire? Would a circuit breaker work better than an inline fuse?

2002 Limited Doublecab 4x4

Toyota Trail Riders
cooper4x4 is offline  
post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-26-2006, 11:41 PM
THAT guy.
 
SAR_Squid79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 5,490
Send a message via Yahoo to SAR_Squid79
I just got the lights that I'm gonna mount to my DeMello light bar in my bed. I'm pretty good with mechanical stuff but I know dick about wiring or anything electrical so I have a question:
I have a Auxillary Fuse block, and I got a fused relay with the lights. I'm trying to figure out how all the components link together. I know that the purpose of the relay is so you don't overload and burn up the switch, and that it should be wired where the switch is basically turning the relay on and off, but I'm an idiot when it comes to this shit, and I just can't seem to visualize how I'm supposed to wire it up.

Fuse Block, Relay, Switch, and lights.

The switch I have has 3 pins. 1 goes to ground, 1 goes to the battery (or in my case the fuse block), and 1 goes out to the lights. Does the relay go in between the lights and the switch, or between the switch and the fuse block, or do I not even need the relay since I have the fuse block?

~Jamie
2000 Tacoma TRD 4WD PreRunner
Supercharged. Locked. Armored.


Mountain: She can crawl it.
Ass: She can haul it.


"Roads? Where we're going we don't need . . . roads."
~Dr. Emmett L. Brown

My Rig My Trailer 4xInnovations

Last edited by SAR_Squid79; 02-28-2006 at 06:48 PM.
SAR_Squid79 is offline  
post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-27-2006, 08:26 PM
THAT guy.
 
SAR_Squid79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 5,490
Send a message via Yahoo to SAR_Squid79
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAR_Squid79
I just got the lights that I'm gonna mount to my DeMello light bar in my bed. I'm pretty good with mechanical stuff but I know dick about wiring or anything electrical so I have a question:
I have a Auxillary Fuse block, and I got a fused relay with the lights. I'm trying to figure out how all the components link together.

Fuse Block, Relay, Switch, and lights.

The switch I have has 3 pins. 1 goes to ground, 1 goes to the battery (or in my case the fuse block), and 1 goes out to the lights. Does the relay go in between the lights and the switch, or between the switch and the fuse block, or do I not even need the relay since I have the fuse block?
BUMP!

~Jamie
2000 Tacoma TRD 4WD PreRunner
Supercharged. Locked. Armored.


Mountain: She can crawl it.
Ass: She can haul it.


"Roads? Where we're going we don't need . . . roads."
~Dr. Emmett L. Brown

My Rig My Trailer 4xInnovations
SAR_Squid79 is offline  
post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-28-2006, 06:46 PM
THAT guy.
 
SAR_Squid79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 5,490
Send a message via Yahoo to SAR_Squid79
Damn It! Can Somebody Answer My F-ing Question!?!?!?!?!?!

I know it's a moron newbie question, but C'MON!

~Jamie
2000 Tacoma TRD 4WD PreRunner
Supercharged. Locked. Armored.


Mountain: She can crawl it.
Ass: She can haul it.


"Roads? Where we're going we don't need . . . roads."
~Dr. Emmett L. Brown

My Rig My Trailer 4xInnovations
SAR_Squid79 is offline  
post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-28-2006, 07:51 PM
Member
 
Fezzik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Maine
Posts: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAR_Squid79
The switch I have has 3 pins. 1 goes to ground, 1 goes to the battery (or in my case the fuse block), and 1 goes out to the lights. Does the relay go in between the lights and the switch, or between the switch and the fuse block, or do I not even need the relay since I have the fuse block?
You are correct on the 3 wires to the switch. As for the relay, The wire that goes from the switch to the lights actually goes to the relay. you also have a separate power wire the can come directly off the battery to the relay and one that goes to the lights.

You wire up the relay this way to prevent the switch from having more power than it can handle going through it.

Here is a good site that explains it
Sorry found a better site

Last edited by Fezzik; 02-28-2006 at 07:56 PM.
Fezzik is offline  
post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-28-2006, 07:54 PM
Veteran Member
 
jessevic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 1,336
Hahahahah.... heres my best attempt at an ASCII wiring diagram.



PS
|
FB
|
S---G
|
R---FB---PS
|
L---G
|
G

PS=power supply
FB=Fuse Bloc
S=Switch
R=Relay
G=Ground
L=Light

There is only 1 power supply, I just couldnt figure out how to draw it. And make sure you are using 2 different size fuses. The switch only needs a small fuse, and the Relay will need as big of a fuse as the Lights require.

Current
2004 V6 Extended Cab Auto

Sold and Missed
2008 V6 Extended Cab 6-SPD
2003 V6 Extended Cab 5-SPD

Custom stereo and hidden 10" sub

Last edited by jessevic; 02-28-2006 at 08:01 PM.
jessevic is offline  
post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-03-2006, 03:21 PM
K7LHL
 
BajaXplorer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Mesatopia, AZ
Posts: 20
http://www.kchilites.com/faq/instruc...layDiagram.pdf
http://www.kchilites.com/faq/instruc...layHarness.pdf

Beer is good food. Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer. Beer is the reason I get up every afternoon. Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants to see us happy.

Last edited by BajaXplorer; 03-03-2006 at 03:29 PM.
BajaXplorer is offline  
post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-03-2006, 03:48 PM
THAT guy.
 
SAR_Squid79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 5,490
Send a message via Yahoo to SAR_Squid79
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajaXplorer
THANKS MAN!

That's EXACTLY what I needed to know! Awesome, perfect diagram!

~Jamie
2000 Tacoma TRD 4WD PreRunner
Supercharged. Locked. Armored.


Mountain: She can crawl it.
Ass: She can haul it.


"Roads? Where we're going we don't need . . . roads."
~Dr. Emmett L. Brown

My Rig My Trailer 4xInnovations
SAR_Squid79 is offline  
post #21 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-03-2006, 07:21 PM
Veteran Member
 
flyingwil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 1,379
Send a message via AIM to flyingwil
I am using a fuse block to be mounted in the tool box (with a second battery), to support the full time power requirements. It is a Blue Sea block from West Marine. These are really nice units, and a bargain compared to the Painless Fuse block units.


They have complete + and - terminals and supper easy to use. I have toyed with installing it behind the rear seat, and using a audio amplifier kit to power the unit. You can pick up an istall kit for Wal-Mart for cheap with a heavy duty inline fuse, and gounding cables upto a 4g. wire.

-Wil
Sierra Expeditions
The only regrets in life are the risks you didn't take.

My build up thread
flyingwil is offline  
post #22 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-04-2006, 05:48 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 94
Thumbs up

I've got that exact fuse block from bluesea.....it's great. I had mine for a while before finally getting around to installing it. I still need to add an inline fuse....it's being shipped as I type.

The 12 spots are probably overkill for me.....but I just didn't want to have to do this again in a few years.


I just need to go back and clean up some wiring now from other stuff that I installed prior to this block(lights, CB, an aux. outlet)
porkysan is offline  
post #23 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-04-2006, 06:15 PM
Veteran Member
TTORA SILVER Vendor
 
waskillywabbit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Tuscaloosa, Alabama
Posts: 1,235
Send a message via AIM to waskillywabbit Send a message via Yahoo to waskillywabbit
I have (2) of those Blue Sea fuse blocks and one of their marine battery switches...top notch stuff for a lot less than some other equivalent equipment.

waskillywabbit is offline  
post #24 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-05-2006, 05:28 AM
newbie
 
wisctaco04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Flagstaff,AZ
Posts: 609
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAR_Squid79
Damn It! Can Somebody Answer My F-ing Question!?!?!?!?!?!

I know it's a moron newbie question, but C'MON!
Just drive up here and we'll wire it up.

http://offroadworld.tenmagazines.com...ry.asp?id=4820
SC'd/URD 2.2"pulley H20 cooled/3.75"DR's/2"Alcans/32"M/T's/DR rear shocks/ARB Bull Bar/Demello wrap rear/Can-Back/10"Sub/CorbeauVX2000's

Hi-Lift mounts for sale $30
wisctaco04 is offline  
Reply
Gear in this thread - Powered by O'Reilly Auto Parts

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TTORA Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
aux backup/reverse lights wiring -- a mini howto wrooster Interior/Electrical/Electronics 185 11-02-2010 01:09 PM
Rock Lights GOT COPE? Early Tacoma Tech 141 02-16-2006 10:30 AM
Multiple Electrical Installs gogogo Newbie Tech 6 09-30-2005 03:18 PM
Painless fuse block??? Jesters_taco Interior/Electrical/Electronics 40 07-05-2005 12:33 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome