3RZ swap

[Asha'man]

Been looking over some threads on this on Marlin's forum and it looks like a much easier swap for a 22RE truck than the 5VZFE. The only hard part at this point looks like motor mounts, as I don't think anyone sells swap mounts yet. MC was working on some but I don't think they ever surfaced. ORS has a harness, although there's a fair amount of info on the forum and I might be able to make do with that. Uses the same W-series tranny, even, and should be doable for around $2K including motor price. Anyone have any opinions on this swap?

[00regcab]

If you can find a totaled (hit in the rear) 3rz 2wd ext. cab tacoma (preferebly white w/black or gray int) for a cheap price, id split the cost with you... im looking for an ext cab

[vwfastg60]

If you can find a totaled (hit in the rear) 3rz 2wd ext. cab tacoma (preferebly white w/black or gray int) for a cheap price, id split the cost with you... im looking for an ext cab


and i need some interior.....Im on the hunt too but i dont really care if its Xtra cab.

:p

[mrdoug]

I've been reading up on swaps of all kinds the last few months, and the one solidly consistent comment is it will always cost more than you think. Swaping an engine is like inviting Murphy into your home and giving him free reign.

They all sound easy. The 5vzfe sounds like cake.. unbolt the old, bolt in the new, plug some things in, drive. I'm not saying it'll never work. And the 3RZ swap may be easier.

I'm not even saying it won't be worth it in the end... but this comment from ORS really hit home and should be pasted in your garage if you are really thinking about doing it:

With professional installation, this swap is not a good investment for those seeking a monetary return. Customers may never get this money back out of the truck, even when performing their own work. It can be cheaper to sell the older Toyota and purchase a newer Toyota with a factory 3.4L engine. This swap is for those who want something unique, those looking for a challenge, those who won't let go of their older Toyota, those who have too much into their older Toyota anyway, those who just love the "cool factor", or all of the above!

[thefatkid]

Having done many swaps the first thing I can say is you will not complete it for 2k. The best swap with a 3.4l I did was 2.5k reusing items that I would not again. A good estimate for a quality swap with most of the stuff is done by yourself is 3.5k (figuring a 1.5-2k engine with all needed accesories). I find that somtimes even with everything from the donor and my "hookups" it is hard to complete a swap cheap.

Being that this is your first swap, get a donor vehicle. This might eliminate some of your nickle and diming because of parts you don't forsee you'll need. I'd buy a swap harness, as much as it hurts, Jground blew his 3.4l because of a crappy conversion harness. He purchased is first harness from yotaman? His final swap was completed at ORS.

Don't be scared, it's not that hard. Minimal brain power is required if you have a conversion harness.

Mrdoug a 3rz would be cool in your truck but your engine mounts are most likly changed already for the 350, a 3.4l placement is very easy with the ORS frame plates (and they are cheap). Really that goes for both of you though, if you can get a cheap R tranny it might be worth it to go that route. I'd like to come and look at the 3rz through the process if either do the swap so let me know!

[Asha'man]

I swapped a 2.3T motor into my old 2.3 non-turbo '92 Mustang, which required a new (recreated) ignition harness and some other wiring, so I'm no stranger to motor swaps. The part about the 3RZ swap that worries me is the motor mounts. I don't think anyone sells them as of yet, and I don't have the equipment to build them myself. I'll have to cross that bridge when/if I come to it.

As far as cost goes, I think the 3RZ swap would actually come out quite a bit cheaper than the 5VZFE. Granted, there are always the nickel-and-dime parts or the "might as well do this while I'm here, too" things that really blow up the budget, but folks on the Marlin board were saying that the engines themselves, even with accessories, wiring, bellhousing, ECU, etc., are remarkably cheap, or at least less than the 3.4. I think if we could find a suitable donor truck for Nate, Russ and me, we'd all come out on top. The ORS harness would set me back quite a bit, but might be worth it in terms of time spent fucking with building a harness.

The problem with the 3.4 for me is that there's so much more to do with it than the four cylinder. With the 3RZ, I can retain my stock tranny/tcase, stock motor mounts (with adapter mounts), a lot of the stock wiring, etc. If I had a 3.0 truck it would be a no-brainer for the 3.4, but I'm thinking the 3RZ might be my best bet here. Plus I could supercharge it down the road like Don and have a nicely powerful little four banger, something I have a soft spot in my heart for. ;)

[thefatkid]

When I was pricing engines here in Colorado the 5vz was cheaper then the 3rz. The main reason is the in so-cal 2wd 2rz are everywhere. The Denver region didn't order many 2wd or 3rz 4wds due to the altitude made the Trucks feel weak. Basic supply and demand dives the price up on the hard to come by engines. The 5vz engines are a dime a dozen here, cost is/should be less then 2k for everything (low mileage), the last on I picked up was $1200 with everything 110k miles. I looked at shippin in a 2rz a while back and the final cost to me was going to be 2.5k (none in Denver at the time). The 3rz has a greater failure rate so that also reduces the supply.

It would be silly for you (Brian) to swap to a 5vz, your comonets are all good tranny wise, engine mounts stock. I'd still like to see/be involved with one or more. I think the 3rz is a great engine, lightyears ahead of the 22r. Your mileage might not go up much but your emissions will go down lots (think green). Your power will feel better then a 3.slow.

Some things to look for when buying a 3rz/2rz

Cracked exhaust manifolds, sounds like a easy fix, if run long enough they like to burn the exhaust valves. Make sure you can hear it run, if it has a misfire just run.

They have issues with cracked heads, this is hard to detect. If the truck it is coming out of is not wreaked be cautious. The best way to see this is pull the spark plugs and look in the cylinders, If they are clean and shiny on the pistion somthing is wrong. I have personally seen 7 cracked heads at Burt.

Pistion slap was very common on those engines, you would have to start it to hear that.

[SP!N4L T4P]

why would clean and shiny pistons reveal a cracked head? and whats piston slap...?

[thefatkid]

why would clean and shiny pistons reveal a cracked head? and whats piston slap...?

Clean shiny piston indicates a coolant leak into the combustion chamber, coolant is good at removing carbon.

Piston slap occurs when there is too much piston to cylinder wall clearance. could be caused by wear, over heating, or incorrect sizing.

[Asha'man]

Those are good points to consider for a swap here in CO. All the pioneering for this swap has been done in SoCal, and of course they're like "ohh, there are six hundred 3RZ's on carpart.com". Bastards lol. I'm still definitely considering it, but still running into the obstacle of motor mounts. I would like to pick up another reliable vehicle before I do something like this as well - the Mustang doesn't cut it, and requires premium anyway.

Wonder if ORS would be interested in making up a set of 22RE-3RZ motor mounts based on my truck? I'll promise to use their harness and everything! :D

Also did not know about the head and valve issues. You've seen seven, but out of how many? Is this something I should be really worried about, or just something to keep an eye out for? Do they crack things in regular use or must they have been overheated or something in the past? Brian, you're the guy on the front lines for this info ;), and I appreciate your advice!

[Don_G]

If you are after the cool factor then supercharge a 3rz, otherwise it's foolish.

A supercharged 3rz with a 2" pulley puts out the same HP as a stock 3.4 - and costs about $4K more. There's NFW I would do it again.

Start with a 3.4 - even if you have to buy a newer truck to do it. :2cents:

[ORS]

Wonder if ORS would be interested in making up a set of 22RE-3RZ motor mounts based on my truck? I'll promise to use their harness and everything! :D


Possibly!
Shoot me an e-mail we have some questions for you.

sales@offroadsolutions.com

[Asha'man]

If you are after the cool factor then supercharge a 3rz, otherwise it's foolish.

A supercharged 3rz with a 2" pulley puts out the same HP as a stock 3.4 - and costs about $4K more. There's NFW I would do it again.

Start with a 3.4 - even if you have to buy a newer truck to do it. :2cents:

Thanks for the input, Don. You're the man with the knowledge on the blown 3RZ so that's good to know. I think that with my truck in the current configuration (22RE/W56/etc), the 3RZ makes the most sense. I really don't want to get a newer truck and can't afford a 3rd gen anyway (don't like 2nd gens, sorry Troy and Molly!). I also don't need to track down a new tranny and t-case, etc etc. Not looking for a powerhouse - the Mustang is there for that - but with increased emissions standards and high gas prices, efficiency is important to me; the fact that the truck might almost get out of its own way is a bonus. ;)

[Asha'man]

Possibly!
Shoot me an e-mail we have some questions for you.

sales@offroadsolutions.com

Email sent.

[00regcab]

Don, i have no doubt in my mind your truck has more power than mine. But comparatively from the two, when i drove yours it seemed to pick up a littler slower than mine with the 5.29's, however, i didnt get on it at all, just around town.

Im honestly 100% happy with the power my truck has with the 5.29's and 33's, it gets up and goes pretty good (for what it is) when i need it to.

BTW: Brian, 15.1 @ 92? I just clicked a 14.9 @ 93 with a 1.9 60ft a couple weeks back, but now my heads trashed due to a driver error lol, so the cars down for awhile :p lol

[Volcom]

I'm going to seriously look at a 5VZ swap in my 84 4Runner within the next couple of years. With diesel prices hovering at $5/gal, I can't afford to trailer my rig to every trail run. I would like to be able to drive it with some decent highway speed and mountain pass speed as compared to the 22RE.

If I go 5VZ, I will look to upgrade my W56 to an R-series tranny and buy the adapters to make the dual cases work.

Gotta save some $$$ first :D

[Asha'man]

BTW: Brian, 15.1 @ 92? I just clicked a 14.9 @ 93 with a 1.9 60ft a couple weeks back, but now my heads trashed due to a driver error lol, so the cars down for awhile :p lol

Yeah, it's pretty stock, and the exhaust from the cats back is stock (2" or something stupid), which just kills power on a turbo car. I was going to get exhaust back in June but the shop couldn't get to it (they were working on a sick ass Unimog, so can't fault them too much) and I haven't driven it since. Your car weighs like 47 pounds. ;) What's your motor combo again? The hell did you do to your head?

[Asha'man]

If I go 5VZ, I will look to upgrade my W56 to an R-series tranny and buy the adapters to make the dual cases work.

Gotta save some $$$ first :D

That's exactly the reason I'm NOT looking into the 5VZ swap. There are way too many associated costs involved, and I'm simply not at that point.

[Don_G]

Don, i have no doubt in my mind your truck has more power than mine. But comparatively from the two, when i drove yours it seemed to pick up a littler slower than mine with the 5.29's, however, i didnt get on it at all, just around town.

Im honestly 100% happy with the power my truck has with the 5.29's and 33's, it gets up and goes pretty good (for what it is) when i need it to.

BTW: Brian, 15.1 @ 92? I just clicked a 14.9 @ 93 with a 1.9 60ft a couple weeks back, but now my heads trashed due to a driver error lol, so the cars down for awhile :p lol

Nate,

The SC doesn't begin to kick in until you get to 3/4 throttle, so you might not have gotten into it. Bottom line, though, is that it's still a 4 cylinder. A 3rz is a nice engine. A 3rz with a SC is NOT $4k better. :2cents:

[RedRunnertc]

BTW: Brian, 15.1 @ 92? I just clicked a 14.9 @ 93 with a 1.9 60ft

I assume that's at Bandimere? What's the altitude factor? 'Cuz the Impala supposedly does high 13's/low 14's stock ...

[Volcom]

I assume that's at Bandimere? What's the altitude factor? 'Cuz the Impala supposedly does high 13's/low 14's stock ...

Add 1-2 seconds :D My dad's 03 Supercharged Mustang Cobra (400 hp stock) runs high 13's at 104 mph trap speeds.

[Asha'man]

Yeah, 1-2 seconds, depending on n/a or forced induction. N/a cars take a harder hit. Your Impala is probably a 16 second car up here, maybe high 15's. Track elevation at Bandi is 5800 ft, and that's not taking density altitude into account. I've been there on days where DA is over 10,000 feet. Cars are SLOOOOOOOW then. :D My buddy Lee's '88 GT makes 525rwhp and runs 11.40's at 122, but it would be a solid ten-second car at sea level. Just the price we have to pay to live in Colorado. :)

[00regcab]

I assume that's at Bandimere? What's the altitude factor? 'Cuz the Impala supposedly does high 13's/low 14's stock ...

Yep, at bandimere. JDM h22a, 8lb flywheel, stage 2 clutch, h23 (longer gears, not ideal for 1/4 mile times at all) tranny, race header, straight pipe 2.75" track exhaust, tuned but not dyno'd. I recently mis-shifted from 3rd to 2nd while i was at almost the rev limiter in 3rd racing someone :( fubard my new clutch too lol, oh well... tearing it apart on sunday. I know i bent at LEAST 2 valves, plus i've had a few burnt valves for awhile now, and a bent rocker... the heads in dire need of a good rebuild

1 second for every mile in elevation, is the rough estimate, Troy.

That high 13/low 14 is rated a PERFECT run at sea level, as fast as that car may EVER go (as it sits), not accounting for wear/tear on the engine, etc. etc. I believe they come up with that number by equation, not by actual testing (something like vehicle weight/crank HP = x lb to x hp, and they use that to come up with their 1/4 mile figure) I would say, at bandimere it could see mid-low 15's once you got the driving aspect down. Come out and play one Wednesday (test and tune) with us :p

[RedRunnertc]

No, those are posted slips from the national Impala SS club, not the factory numbers.

http://www.impalasuperstore.com/naisso/times/viewtimes.asp?catID=10

[Asha'man]

Is yours stock? I was mostly seeing strokers and FI cars on there, and hard to tell what track/elevation they ran at. When you get down to it, it's a mid-'90s LT1 in a 4500lb car with an automatic - it's not gonna be terribly fast. But there's only one way to find out. ;) Let's do a track night!

[thefatkid]

You don't want a track night, my 4runner puttin the smack down on another Mustang is just not right.

[RedRunnertc]

Is yours stock? I was mostly seeing strokers and FI cars on there, and hard to tell what track/elevation they ran at. When you get down to it, it's a mid-'90s LT1 in a 4500lb car with an automatic - it's not gonna be terribly fast. But there's only one way to find out. ;) Let's do a track night!

1. LT1 is terribly underrated. But you're a Ford guy, so have to factor that in.

2. Probably closer to 5500 lbs

3. I know for a fact it will eat Wustangs and Civic SI's for lunch on the street, so it would be interesting to see what numbers it puts up.

[mrdoug]

:xpopcorn:

This is could be fun.. instigating from the side lines:

TC: Let's see what the cop car could really do.

Asha'man: You can't let a chevy guy talk smack like that are you?

92regcab: Come on man, all that hard work you put in to that thing. You know you're better than they are.

thefatkid: oh, you gotta do it, but no fair flexing out on top of the other cars when you win.

[Volcom]

I'm guessing it would be in the 15's. LS1 in a heavy, auto car won't break into the 14's unless it's a Camaro or Firebird.

[00regcab]

1. LT1 is terribly underrated. But you're a Ford guy, so have to factor that in.

2. Probably closer to 5500 lbs

3. I know for a fact it will eat Wustangs and Civic SI's for lunch on the street, so it would be interesting to see what numbers it puts up.


mines no SI :p i smash on SI's all day long too, its rather fun :p


My friends 4400lb Camaro with a mildy built LT1, welded rear end, and slicks only did 14.8-14.7 all day long.

Dougs playing devils advocate over here :eek: :lmao:

[Asha'man]

You don't want a track night, my 4runner puttin the smack down on another Mustang is just not right.

Yeah I know what kind of power you make. ;)

1. LT1 is terribly underrated. But you're a Ford guy, so have to factor that in.

2. Probably closer to 5500 lbs

3. I know for a fact it will eat Wustangs and Civic SI's for lunch on the street, so it would be interesting to see what numbers it puts up.

1. I'm not really a Ford guy, I'm just a Mustang guy. I know what I've seen, and I don't bullshit. LT1 is a good motor, but put an auto behind it in something in the weight class of the Titanic and it can only do so much. :)

2. Hahahahaha. See above. ;)

3. Lots of Mustangs to choose from - specifically what have you run and beaten? Will give me a much better idea of your streetable power. Civics are generally just fun to laugh at (sorry Nate, yours is nice, but you know the type).

mines no SI :p i smash on SI's all day long too, its rather fun :p

My friends 4400lb Camaro with a mildy built LT1, welded rear end, and slicks only did 14.8-14.7 all day long.

No way a Camaro weighs 4400. They're pigs, especially the later LS1 cars, but ~3400-3600 is far more likely (http://www.importmodifications.com/camaroweightreduction.html). Was it an auto or 5spd? Troy's 5500lb ship with an auto is a mid 15 second car at best.

[Volcom]

http://www.chargerforumz.com/showthread.php?t=27950

Looks like 15.4 for the Impala SS. That's probably at sea level so add a .5-1 second. It lists an 03 Cobra at 12.9. That's the figure I've seen before (at sea level) on street tires. Looks like the list is pretty accurate (looking at what stock ZO6, Acura Integra, WRX, WRX STi).

[FattyB]

c'mon what happened to the sh*t talkn...:xpopcorn2 :xbeer1:, nothing better than guys talkn who's got the fastest car:p

[thefatkid]

Shhh! Don't let the secret out that my truck looses a second from 70degrees to 90degrees. We have to wait till fall to runem!

Back on topic, I picked up a 87 2wd that needs an engine. I'll be looking for the cheapest option for 3rz or 1uz. 3rz gets a head start due to no tranny mods.

[RedRunnertc]

1UZ in a 2WD would be FASSSST though!

[vwfastg60]

2j the 2wd! I want to see one of those happen.

[00regcab]

3. Lots of Mustangs to choose from - specifically what have you run and beaten? Will give me a much better idea of your streetable power. Civics are generally just fun to laugh at (sorry Nate, yours is nice, but you know the type).



No way a Camaro weighs 4400. They're pigs, especially the later LS1 cars, but ~3400-3600 is far more likely (http://www.importmodifications.com/camaroweightreduction.html). Was it an auto or 5spd? Troy's 5500lb ship with an auto is a mid 15 second car at best.

Yea, i know the type, and it sucks, because i often get drug into that mess when thats the shit that i generally try to avoid :p OEM body panels, is where its at lol

Then again, id rather see a body kit, neon lights, stickers everywhere with someone driving who actually knows its slow and minds their own business, over all of the wiggers in their turbo single cams, or beat up stock civic/accord/rsx/integra that think they're the fastest shit on the planet and try to race you over, and over, and over even when you're minding your own damn business. Then when you finally give in just to get away from them, the pull up next to you with the "holy shit" look, and wont stop asking whats done to it. Its unfortunate that, the 'ricer' population is more so turning into a driving style over a 'modding' (i guess you would say) style.

His Camaro weighed in at 4360 something with him in it. I think where he got a good portion of the extra weight was from the near full tank of gas, and i think he had sound deadening in at the time, plus himself (hes a bigger guy, 6'3" 250lbs)

But back to the shit talking.






Domestics still suck :flipoff4:

[Asha'man]

Nate, your car sounds like butthole.















:D











So I'm still kinda kicking around the 3RZ idea, along with just building a new 22RE. Still the only major thing for the 2.7 swap would be the motor mounts - everything else pretty much exists. Don't know that I want to wait for the motor to blow before I make the decision, though. :D

[Hagan34]

any update on any of this either the 3RZ swap or the track night

[bluetaco]

I watched a fresh from Michigan Caprice Intercepter (sans hardware and interior) run 14.5 at 101MPH in its best run at Bandimeer ... the standard 94-96 Impala SS with light mods would maybe touch 15.5 when Mercury is aligned behind the Moon on a cool night at Bandimeer!
Troy's time slip would be between 16.5 and DNF! LOL!!