: SAS vs. 6 inch lift


flyingwil
05-24-2005, 03:25 PM
Ok I have been thinking now after reading this thread: http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10436 that a SAS is more logical. I was looking into a Fabtech 6" lift fora 2002 DC Taco. I live in az and we have trails that range from BAJA desert runs to hard core rock crawling. The thing is that I would like to do it myself and can not afford a whole lot (wife gets frustrated). I think I could put the FT lift on myself over my "weekend" (I work 4 on 4 off) and the thing would run me about $1,200. My other choice (new thought now) is to SAS the puppy later after I save a little more, however I will have to get help with the swap. I work for an airline and can fly for free, and get to any where in the US. I might be able to droppit it off back home and have my buddy help me out and rent a POS from HERTZ while it gets done... What are your thoughts? I am tending to lean more towards the SAS because of the improved Flex. What do you guys think?

Bear
05-24-2005, 03:53 PM
I voted to SAS it, but with that said, I was in a similar boat as you. Well not quite,but I can relate to the frustrated wife thing, except my wife frustrates me.

Anyway the point being. Your truck will perform much better with a solid axle but it is going to be a lot more expensive, maybe more than you think. Then you have to decide if you are at the level of needing the axle in regards to your wheeling habits.

Like I said my story is similar to yours. when I started collecting parts for my SAS, I figured instead of going with a drop bracket kit, I would probably still feel limited by it and evidually want to SAS anyway which to me was wasting money. So I decided to not spend the money on the lift kit and use that money for a SAS fund. Long story short and four years later, I am still trying to finish getting all the parts for the SAS. I have about another month before I have everything. (that is also where the frustrating wife comes into the picture–if it wasn't for her, I would have had the axle on the truck years ago.LOL)

Bottom line: the SAS is going to be more expensive and probably cost you more than you think it will. I thought with a $5000 budget, I would have a pretty nice SAS'ed truck, Well $6500 later and still counting, I am still buying parts!…Do you have patience?

Granted most SAS stories are completely different than mine, but I think you see what I am trying to say.

But I still stand by my vote, SAS the mother and don't spend twice the cash on two lifts, Throw it all at one project.

flyingwil
05-24-2005, 04:15 PM
I really dont have much patience and stock really blows for AZ! I could lift it, but that would just delay the SAS, but I would be more capable of nearby trails. It is also my daily driver so it must be freeway friendly...

04RedLobster
05-24-2005, 04:29 PM
many folks here have SAS tacos and i'm sure they will tell you that they have no trouble with daily driving...hopefully those guys will tell you that...

it'll def pay off on the end when you have SAS truck....if you are really into rock crawling than that'll be the best choice for you...

it really does depend on what you decide to do with ur truck...
SAS is expensive and may take you a long time to collect all the parts!!

flyingwil
05-24-2005, 04:33 PM
SAS is expensive and may take you a long time to collect all the parts!!

Right.. so is it a waste of money to lift it in the mean time?

04RedLobster
05-24-2005, 04:38 PM
if you wanna lift ur truck and always wanted to SAS it...than do it right the first time!!! it really would be a waste of money when you spend almost 1500 for an IFS kit and decide to go SAS later...

you chould of saved it up for ur SAS...

Bear
05-24-2005, 05:02 PM
Right.. so is it a waste of money to lift it in the mean time?

In a nut shell, that was what I decided, but each persons situation is different. You have to take into account your wheel'n experience as well.

I know running IFS has taught me a lot about break over points and such. I have heard stories of people throwing unGodly amounts of money at a vehicle and built them up to be superior machines. Then get behind the wheel and tear them up because they did not have a clue about how to drive them.

Learn to crawl…before you crawl!

If you build it up correctly, there is no reason why it should not be able to be driven on the highway. If you build it up poorly, there is no way it will ever get off the trailer.

Again just two insights behind my decision to SAS, in other words, just my :2cents:

AK98Taco
05-24-2005, 06:05 PM
Excellent words, Bear.

I was going to order the Fabtech lift, then looked at the tires I wanted to run, and realized that I was just going to eat the IFS alive. I went over the options with my dad, and decided that a solid axle was more effective for more terrain types. IFS is fine for his '03 Chevy HD, but it's not ideal for a rockcrawler.

Since then, I've ended up getting tons of offroad time behind the wheel of my truck. I've learned a lot about vehicle handling, attacking different types of obstacles, and I've pretty much nailed down the things I need my truck to do.

Now it's just a matter of checking off those needs.

The truck is getting built up in other areas, such that when it is finally SA, it will be a complete package; it will need almost nothing to make it a hardcore rig.

I know that when I finally reach the SA stage, I will be able to go anywhere I want.

Build your skill first. Then, build your rig.

AngryAndy
05-24-2005, 06:24 PM
Excellent words, Bear.

I was going to order the Fabtech lift, then looked at the tires I wanted to run, and realized that I was just going to eat the IFS alive. I went over the options with my dad, and decided that a solid axle was more effective for more terrain types. IFS is fine for his '03 Chevy HD, but it's not ideal for a rockcrawler.

Since then, I've ended up getting tons of offroad time behind the wheel of my truck. I've learned a lot about vehicle handling, attacking different types of obstacles, and I've pretty much nailed down the things I need my truck to do.

Now it's just a matter of checking off those needs.

The truck is getting built up in other areas, such that when it is finally SA, it will be a complete package; it will need almost nothing to make it a hardcore rig.

I know that when I finally reach the SA stage, I will be able to go anywhere I want.

Build your skill first. Then, build your rig.


I agree with these last two posts..

Lift it IFS, and LEARN to wheel it. Then when the wife ain't looking, buy some SAS parts here and there. After a year or two of wheeling it, you will have learned a LOT, and will have many parts ready for your swap. You will also have many local friends who will probably help with the swap itself...friends you will make out on the trail...

Here in NorCal, we have way too many people signed up in our chapter (who DONT wheel)...maybe 5% of the total amount might show up on any given run. It's pathetic how many people sign up but dont wheel thier stuff. And it is usually the SAME 5% on every run....it saddens me. :mad:

And my SAS is one of my daily drivers. I do have a nice new car I love to dart around in traffic with; but every day I would rather be driving my truck. Example...in the last 10 working days, I drove my truck 8 of those days. I drive 25 miles per direction. I check my rig at least monthy. By checking I mean lug nuts, u-bolts, driveshaft bolts, steering stuff, most all life safety critical parts. I have only had one incident, and that was a sticky brake caliper which could have been tragic, but since i noticed it, it was dealt with...

Don't worry about it being a daily driver....both Mike and I are daily drivers, and we don't have problems....then again, if it is fawked from the start, I wouldn't feel safe in it on the highways....

AK98Taco
05-24-2005, 06:37 PM
Good points, Andy.

The friends made on the trail are important ones. They are the people who will save your ass if something goes wrong and you are miles from home.

I love my truck because I can pound it hard all day offroad and it will still get me home without a hiccup. Then after a thorough cleaning, it can be driven to work and look presentable amongst the yuppie-mobiles.

Web-wheeling sucks, and so do the club members who never show up to anything and never even talk on the damn forum. There are probably a half-dozen or more members from the Utah chapter that I have never wheeled with or even talked to on the internet. However, the guys that do come out come out regularly, and are a superb group of people to hang out with.

flyingwil
05-24-2005, 08:38 PM
Ok I guess I should give you a bit about me... I have been wheeling since I was 18... (the last 7 years now) and come from a 1974 CJ that had a 304 Holly Projected AMC in it. I swapped the front end with one out of a waggy so that my front axle was 2 inches wider than my rear (I keept wedging my self into places I should have been). It had a total of about 12 inches of lift (not really too sure as it was ever changing), and I was running 37/13.00x15 Super Swampers on it. I had built a roll cage that went thru the fire wall and out the grill... blah blah blah.... it was a very capable Jeep.

I had while I lived in Prescott, AZ and during that time wheeled the sucker every chance I got. I got into rock crawling pretty heavily and as I pushed the limits and learned (rolled several times) I became better and better. I eventually got to a point where I want to move to a Taco... one of my recovery vehicles was my buddies near stock 99 taco and I fell in love... the rest is history.

So experience is not a factor (allthough I am allways learning) and stock limitations just aren't enough to get me where I want to go. I dont want to sound cocky, but my experience is up there... It is just getting another capable rig, that I will respect more and won't look like a California Rasin! (don't plan on using as it a learning tool for my capabilities). I am no newbie to Off-road experience.

So does that change the suggested next step?

04RedLobster
05-24-2005, 09:31 PM
well...i believe tacomas will react differently than a jeep will...
so i guess you will still have to learn how the truck will react to whatever you are planning to do...

jeep and tacoma...very different..

AngryAndy
05-24-2005, 09:39 PM
Ok I guess I should give you a bit about me... I have been wheeling since I was 18... (the last 7 years now) and come from a 1974 CJ that had a 304 Holly Projected AMC in it. I swapped the front end with one out of a waggy so that my front axle was 2 inches wider than my rear (I keept wedging my self into places I should have been). It had a total of about 12 inches of lift (not really too sure as it was ever changing), and I was running 37/13.00x15 Super Swampers on it. I had built a roll cage that went thru the fire wall and out the grill... blah blah blah.... it was a very capable Jeep.

I had while I lived in Prescott, AZ and during that time wheeled the sucker every chance I got. I got into rock crawling pretty heavily and as I pushed the limits and learned (rolled several times) I became better and better. I eventually got to a point where I want to move to a Taco... one of my recovery vehicles was my buddies near stock 99 taco and I fell in love... the rest is history.

So experience is not a factor (allthough I am allways learning) and stock limitations just aren't enough to get me where I want to go. I dont want to sound cocky, but my experience is up there... It is just getting another capable rig, that I will respect more and won't look like a California Rasin! (don't plan on using as it a learning tool for my capabilities). I am no newbie to Off-road experience.

So does that change the suggested next step?

I myself have never driven a short wheelbase vehicle...so I cannot relate to the tranformation from short to long wheelbase....from what I know, THAT IS one of our faults; (as a tacoma owner) our long wheelbase.

I got into wheeling with a jeep group. They were smart enough to spot me where my long wheelbase would cause problems. I saw those little jeeps whip thru sharp, downgrade/upgrade turns and thought to myself...no problem....but; THEY spotted me, cause I was a newbie. Thank god, cause if I took those same lines, I would have rolled a time or two for sure...

Im not ignoring your wheeling experience....I am just saying that a different vehicle will produce different results....especially going from a short wheelbase to a long one.

I still say; if it were ME, get to know your new truck, get to know your new LOCAL friends, and get to know whats up and coming for your SAS...combine all three and you will have a winning combination, in my point of view....

just get out there, and learn. If you have nothing to learn; maybe teach. An
d get new friends....isn't that why we are all here???? <group hug>

Now that I have experience (more then 3 years IFS) ; the last time I saw my old Jeep friends, they were quite impressed with my improved rig....and as a California wheeler...some of them were asshats for sure....there is always a bad apple in the bunch though. Take that with a grain of salt.... :mad:

AK98Taco
05-24-2005, 10:01 PM
Jeep experience is great, but the Tacoma is a whole nother beast, as you can understand.

Figure out what you need it to do, and build it accordingly.

AK98Taco
05-24-2005, 10:08 PM
Definitely something to consider.

All the wheeling I did in Utah was with Toyotas, and all were either Tacos, 4-Runners, or 80s pickups. Wheelbases were pretty similar, so I was able to follow similar lines, except where they went for optional obstacles and I held off.

You're right about that "bad apple in every bunch". I get back home to Alaska, go out on a cleanup/wheeling trip with a few of the local clubs, and meet some good people. However, at the meeting before hand, there was some guy I recognized from a web forum, but had never met, and he talked shit about my truck to his buddy.

His friend: "That's a nice little Toyota."
Guy: "Too little. He'll find out soon enough."

Coming from a guy with a sprung over YJ on 33s, no lockers, a little armor, and nothing else useful, just bolt on shit. I didn't know who the f-ck he thought he was to talk shit about a rig he'd never seen before, but I showed his ass up on the trail. Hopefully his narrow-minded peanut of a brain wises up.

J.Garrison
05-24-2005, 11:10 PM
I will have to agree with Andy. Save your money and go with the sas. I have the 6" fabtech kit. It's not bad. But now I am starting all over again with having to save up the money for the sas. There is alot of other things that I am doing to my tacoma. So the sas will have to wait for now. But not too long

flyingwil
05-25-2005, 06:23 AM
Cool! Each time I come to this board I am amazed by each response I get. I could not be more thankful for all of your input!

The larger wheelbase is a new trick to master, I have noticed it when peaking over and mitigating high centering. (Sorry I suck at spelling if no green swiggly line pops up under the word if it is spelled incorrectly.)

So here is my new thought on it all. I am thinking of a spacer lift in the front and AAL for the rear for right now. Cheap and I get saving for the SAS.

What compnents stay as a part of the SAS process? I should probably search and find out...

TACORICAN
05-25-2005, 11:01 AM
I agree with these last two posts..

Lift it IFS, and LEARN to wheel it. Then when the wife ain't looking, buy some SAS parts here and there. After a year or two of wheeling it, you will have learned a LOT, and will have many parts ready for your swap. You will also have many local friends who will probably help with the swap itself...friends you will make out on the trail...

Here in NorCal, we have way too many people signed up in our chapter (who DONT wheel)...maybe 5% of the total amount might show up on any given run. It's pathetic how many people sign up but dont wheel thier stuff. And it is usually the SAME 5% on every run....it saddens me. :mad:

And my SAS is one of my daily drivers. I do have a nice new car I love to dart around in traffic with; but every day I would rather be driving my truck. Example...in the last 10 working days, I drove my truck 8 of those days. I drive 25 miles per direction. I check my rig at least monthy. By checking I mean lug nuts, u-bolts, driveshaft bolts, steering stuff, most all life safety critical parts. I have only had one incident, and that was a sticky brake caliper which could have been tragic, but since i noticed it, it was dealt with...

Don't worry about it being a daily driver....both Mike and I are daily drivers, and we don't have problems....then again, if it is fawked from the start, I wouldn't feel safe in it on the highways....
I couldn't agree with you more. Now I don't feel bad about buying an Axle first and now ordering a Fabtech. As for those who their wifes get all stressed out. Do what I did. Rent a storage. Half the stuff is in there. Now she is starting to realize that no matter what she says, I will still buy parts. She now got used to it and has bought me parts also.

AK98Taco
05-25-2005, 01:59 PM
A spacer/AAL lift is what I'm running, and it has served me well. I gained some clearance between the frame and the ground for climbing ledges, and it somewhat allowed for the fitment of 33" tires, which have aided my ground clearance under the diffs.

As far as components that stay after the SAS: the oil pan is most likely changed; the entire front suspension goes, along with all of the bracketry; the front driveshaft is lengthened (unless you go with a dual-case setup); and the rack and pinion steering goes, in favor of a frame-mounted box and axle-mounted drag link and tie rod.

Captkirkyota
05-25-2005, 05:08 PM
Ok I have been thinking now after reading this thread: http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10436 that a SAS is more logical. I was looking into a Fabtech 6" lift fora 2002 DC Taco. I live in az and we have trails that range from BAJA desert runs to hard core rock crawling. The thing is that I would like to do it myself and can not afford a whole lot (wife gets frustrated). I think I could put the FT lift on myself over my "weekend" (I work 4 on 4 off) and the thing would run me about $1,200. My other choice (new thought now) is to SAS the puppy later after I save a little more, however I will have to get help with the swap. I work for an airline and can fly for free, and get to any where in the US. I might be able to droppit it off back home and have my buddy help me out and rent a POS from HERTZ while it gets done... What are your thoughts? I am tending to lean more towards the SAS because of the improved Flex. What do you guys think?

Dude there are 7 plus 2 on the way SAS guys here in Phx and like 5 of them down in Tucson. If you will come over to the SW board and ask for some help when the swap time comes, I am certain someone will help out. I live in Chandler. If I were you, I'd get a cornfed spacer, sliders and a shackle for the rear and wheel like that while saving collecting SAS stuff. You could do the temp. lift for about 400 dollars and go on about 75% of the trail runs we post up on the SW board. http://forums.delphiforums.com/southwesttaco/start

flyingwil
05-31-2005, 09:33 AM
Dude there are 7 plus 2 on the way SAS guys here in Phx and like 5 of them down in Tucson. If you will come over to the SW board and ask for some help when the swap time comes, I am certain someone will help out. I live in Chandler. If I were you, I'd get a cornfed spacer, sliders and a shackle for the rear and wheel like that while saving collecting SAS stuff. You could do the temp. lift for about 400 dollars and go on about 75% of the trail runs we post up on the SW board. http://forums.delphiforums.com/southwesttaco/start

cool thanks! I cant hit the Delphi from work (blocked by WebSense or what I call Webnanny) I'll ceck it out... If only the AZ TTORA website was better... have you checked out TX chapters? Well anyways thanks for the help!

nhlbill
05-31-2005, 10:42 PM
cool thanks! I cant hit the Delphi from work (blocked by WebSense or what I call Webnanny) I'll ceck it out... If only the AZ TTORA website was better... have you checked out TX chapters? Well anyways thanks for the help!
One other thing to consider, if you can find a Fabtech 6" and install it yourself for around $1200.00 (I'm guessing it's used since new ones even at the lowest price I've seen are 1650.00 and that does not count what your going to pay someone to press in the bearings and hubs.), I say do it. That's way less than a SAS, and when your ready, you will be able to sell your Fabtech for 1200.00 easy. I've seen several Fabtech 6" lifts sell used (including mine) for 1200-1300. You really won't be out any money in the long run, and you will have the look you want for now while you save for the SAS later.
Bill

NUKE
06-18-2005, 02:40 PM
Ok I have been thinking now after reading this thread: http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10436 that a SAS is more logical. I was looking into a Fabtech 6" lift fora 2002 DC Taco. I live in az and we have trails that range from BAJA desert runs to hard core rock crawling. The thing is that I would like to do it myself and can not afford a whole lot (wife gets frustrated). I think I could put the FT lift on myself over my "weekend" (I work 4 on 4 off) and the thing would run me about $1,200. My other choice (new thought now) is to SAS the puppy later after I save a little more, however I will have to get help with the swap. I work for an airline and can fly for free, and get to any where in the US. I might be able to droppit it off back home and have my buddy help me out and rent a POS from HERTZ while it gets done... What are your thoughts? I am tending to lean more towards the SAS because of the improved Flex. What do you guys think?

I think you'll find that most people will tell you to go SAS but understand that it will be A LOT more than "a little more". Plan on $5000 to $7000 depending on how you decide to go (coil vs. leaf). It not all that hard to do if you have some basic welding and fabrication skills. I did mine myself, took me about 2 1/2 weeks working at a leisurely pace. If I was to do it again I would recruit the help of others.

As you said, the Fabtech will run about $1200. The IFS is somewhat limited but there are still a lot of guys running IFS trucks, and they do the more difficult trails.

NUKE
08-07-2005, 03:38 PM
Bottom line: the SAS is going to be more expensive and probably cost you more than you think it will. I thought with a $5000 budget, I would have a pretty nice SAS'ed truck, Well $6500 later and still counting, I am still buying parts!…Do you have patience?

Granted most SAS stories are completely different than mine, but I think you see what I am trying to say.

But I still stand by my vote, SAS the mother and don't spend twice the cash on two lifts, Throw it all at one project.

Damn Bear?!?!?! What the hell are you buying????? Mine only cost $5600, and almost half that ($2400) was for a custom built axle!!!