: Real bad rear wobble


Yanman
01-10-2009, 05:50 PM
Well, I thought I might have gotten away from jumping my truck undamaged, but now I'm not so sure.

I dove up to mrdoug's place with Sucka to do the "grey wire mod" and to get my tow hitch receiver bent back.

Anyway on the way up there and back, I've got a real bad wobble on the passenger's rear. Its real bad at high speeds and especially on concrete roads.

In fact its so bad it has caused my bed to flex into my cab and dent it a little.

While at mrdoug's, doug regreased all the zerts in the drive line and we also put the rear up on jack stands and ran it and didn't notice anything. However we didn't get it up to high speeds.

So, I'm not sure what to do. Should I just suck it up and realize that I was not that lucky and take it in and get it fixed, or is there someway I can fix it myself?

Thanks

Avsfreak1234
01-10-2009, 06:04 PM
loose any tire weights?

Yanman
01-10-2009, 06:09 PM
Hmm...maybe...

I could try taking it in and getting the tires rebalanced. I'm going to need to get it realigned anyway so I could try that.

Hopefully its just that simple.

Quick Draw
01-10-2009, 06:20 PM
Yeah I had a period of time where I just couldn't seem to keep all 4 wheels balanced for very long. If it was the front tires, my steering wheel would violently move about 30 degrees back and forth very rapidly as soon as I hit about 45 mph. If it was the rear, the truck would hop. I could look in the mirror and see the rear corner of the bed bouncing very rapidly....but that was far less annoying than the front wheels. It didn't really feel like a wobble as much as a bounce, though.... So that may not be your issue.

What provokes it? Speed? Throttle? Nothing?

Yanman
01-10-2009, 06:33 PM
loose any tire weights?

Another thing on that, I was using a different set of rims and tires when I went on that run when I jumped my truck. But still, the rims and tires that I have on now have always given me balancing problems. :mad:

Not sure if its the BFG Rugged trail tires or the TRD Ivan Stuart alloys or a combo of both.

Or again I might have F'd up something when I jumped my truck. But, I've been told that if I jacked something up it would more likely be up in the front. :dunno:

Yeah I had a period of time where I just couldn't seem to keep all 4 wheels balanced for very long. If it was the front tires, my steering wheel would violently move about 30 degrees back and forth very rapidly as soon as I hit about 45 mph. If it was the rear, the truck would hop. I could look in the mirror and see the rear corner of the bed bouncing very rapidly....but that was far less annoying than the front wheels. It didn't really feel like a wobble as much as a bounce, though.... So that may not be your issue.

What provokes it? Speed? Throttle? Nothing?

I think speed is definately one of the factors. At low speeds 0-10 it rides smooth, 11-60 a little wobble, 61 + its BAD! And it does feel a little like a bounce.

RedRunnertc
01-10-2009, 08:27 PM
The alignment shop should find anything bent in a hurry.

ike
01-10-2009, 09:13 PM
like troy said, an alignment shop is where you should go.

I would get an alignment and get the tires balanced, and then if you still have the wobble start to worry.

mrdoug
01-10-2009, 09:49 PM
heh, sounds familiar... :D I didn't realize you swapped wheels too, you might want to check your lug nuts, make sure the wheels are all on there good and square, lugs torqued, etc.

Here's to hopping it something relatively simple/cheep. :xbeer3:

ike
01-10-2009, 10:10 PM
I had forgotten about your loose lug issue there doug.

mrdoug
01-10-2009, 10:13 PM
snap, crackle and pop... yeah, stupid mistakes happen.

My "sounds familiar" comment was because the tire balance and alignment were the first things I mentioned when he brought it up. Simple, pretty cheep (comparatively) and good to rule out.

ike
01-10-2009, 10:39 PM
Yep, I currently get a wobble at 60-65, but i am sure it is tires being out of balance. Time to go back to my freindly local discount tire

TacoBlanca97
01-10-2009, 11:41 PM
Hmm...maybe...

I could try taking it in and getting the tires rebalanced. I'm going to need to get it realigned anyway so I could try that.

Hopefully its just that simple.

Was there any wobble driving back after the New Years day run?

Yanman
01-11-2009, 02:41 AM
like troy said, an alignment shop is where you should go.

I would get an alignment and get the tires balanced, and then if you still have the wobble start to worry.

I'll do just that on Sunday.

I know a friend who had something similiar happen to his minivan and he had to get new tires because the tires he was running were so jacked.

Hopefully I won't have to do the same, althought it would be nice to get rid of those crappy BFG "Rugged Trail" tires!

heh, sounds familiar... :D I didn't realize you swapped wheels too, you might want to check your lug nuts, make sure the wheels are all on there good and square, lugs torqued, etc.

I did re-torque my lugs a week after our snow run when I noticed the wobble and as you can guess it didn't help.

Here's to hopping it something relatively simple/cheep. :xbeer3:

I'll toast to that! :xbeer1:

Was there any wobble driving back after the New Years day run?

Hard to say because those mud tires have thier own wobble due to the tread pattern. But when I have those mud tires on my truck it rides alot smoother than those street tires and the wobble is not as bad.

ike
01-11-2009, 09:43 AM
That is weird that the MT's ride smoother than the AT's.


Just caught your signature line. All too true after your pull on MrDoug.

Yanman
01-11-2009, 10:08 AM
That is weird that the MT's ride smoother than the AT's.

I know, and its not supposed to be like that.

I'm almost positive that if I come away from the tire/alignment shop and I'm OK, then it will be the same old song and dance with those street tires and rims, they are just a pain in the ass and they will be until I get different tires, different rims, or both.

Or, I say screw this I'll always run my MTs and 15" rims.

Volcom
01-11-2009, 02:23 PM
Could be a bent rear axle tube. Cubuff4Runner bent his 96 4Runner rear axle housing last summer on either Holy Cross or BV Carnage. I followed him out of BV Carnage and it was wobbling bad :eek:

RedRunnertc
01-11-2009, 03:16 PM
Good point volcom - Yancey - have you had anyone drive behind you and see if it's wobbling?

Yanman
01-11-2009, 04:07 PM
Good point volcom - Yancey - have you had anyone drive behind you and see if it's wobbling?

No I have not, but I will now.

Thanks!

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that its just the tires.

Yanman
01-11-2009, 07:48 PM
OK well I got someone to follow me out on the highway and the first go round it didn't want to cooperate and ran smooth as a baby's butt at 80 mph. :rolleyes:

Before the second round I switched the rear tires from one side to the other, and then took it out. This it I felt a wobble at 71-73 mph, couldn't tell if it switched sides, and my tail couldn't see anything wrong. :confused:

GRRR... :mad:

So now what I'll do is go ahead and go get 'em rebalanced and aligned and see where that leads me.

I wonder if it was just a bad patch of road I was on on I-25 and my suspension is too sensitive. Like I said it was REAL BAD on concrete sections and not asphalt.

To be continued...

Sucka
01-11-2009, 07:58 PM
I wonder if it was just a bad patch of road I was on on I-25 and my suspension is too sensitive. Like I said it was REAL BAD on concrete sections and not asphalt.

It wasn't the concrete because i had a smooth ride up and back with you following. I suppose it could have been your rear suspension, but i would rule out the balancing first.

Quick Draw
01-11-2009, 08:44 PM
It could have something to do with I-25. Sections of that road do all kinds of terrible things to my truck. One particular section about 3 miles south of Ft. Collins has broken the welds (not my welds) on my shock mounts twice. Then all of the sudden that crappy ride gets REALLY crappy....

I only have the bumpy ride issue on I-25 however. I-70 has a whole batch of handling problems with the truck wanting to follow worn in grooves in the pavement...which is not really as cool as it sounds....turns out you have to pay more attention to your steering... Some of those damn grooves seem to go straight into the guard rail!

Son of Mayhem
01-11-2009, 10:23 PM
Make sure you get the sticky weights on the inside of the rim... No weights to be knocked off.

devinsixtyseven
01-12-2009, 10:09 AM
Is it possible there was some debris stuck in the rim somewhere?

Wobbles don't fix themselves, unless it's something like that.

Yanman
01-12-2009, 12:00 PM
Is it possible there was some debris stuck in the rim somewhere?

Wobbles don't fix themselves, unless it's something like that.

Could be, or like what Avsfreak suggested maybe I lost a weight.

I didn't notice anything in the rims when I swaped sides.

But it's wierd how it comes and goes. Its like it has good days and bad days. :confused:

The saga continues, I'll be getting them re-balanced and re-aligned this afternoon.

Gerdo
01-12-2009, 01:40 PM
****I would never do this nor would I ever recomend that you do this.****

If someone was so inclined to be riding with you when you have the wobble. That someone may look out a window and see what the tire/wheel is doing.

A safer way would be with a video camera.

Yanman
01-12-2009, 02:06 PM
****I would never do this nor would I ever recomend that you do this.****

If someone was so inclined to be riding with you when you have the wobble. That someone may look out a window and see what the tire/wheel is doing.

A safer way would be with a video camera.

Interesting idea...but as you stated, its not recomendable, because it might be dangerous.

But, I did do what Troy suggested and have someone follow me, my Dad, on two runs.

On both runs he drove along both sides of the rear of my truck looking closely at the tires and rims and was looking at the bed to see if anything was jumping around...nothing.

Gerdo
01-12-2009, 04:28 PM
Bent driveshaft? Bad U-joint? A little of both?

Yanman
01-12-2009, 04:50 PM
Bent driveshaft? Bad U-joint? A little of both?

mrdoug was thinking that might be the case too, and I'm thinking that also.

My old '91 Toy Pickup had to go in several times during the time I owned it (12 years) and had to get the drive shaft fixed because it would get out of balance.

Gerdo
01-12-2009, 04:57 PM
mrdoug was thinking that might be the case too, and I'm thinking that also.

My old '91 Toy Pickup had to go in several times during the time I owned it (12 years) and had to get the drive shaft fixed because it would get out of balance.


That would be an easy check/fix for a DS shop to do.

I would, in this order, check ballance of tires (again even if you already have). Have someone watch the tires when you feel the vibes on the highway, sounds like you already have done that. Take a look at all suspension parts for something bent or loose. Get the DS looked at.

My first thought was a bent wheel or a bent axle.

mrdoug
01-13-2009, 07:53 AM
The ujoints were in need of some grease but there wasn't any noticeable play in them. The slip joint was pretty dry but again, no noticeable play. Can't really speak for the balancing tho.

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure with an out of balance drive shaft the vibration would be pretty constant, and not come/go with changing wheels.

As for the dent in the cab. I'd be willing to bet that might have happened when you caught air on the snow run (or rather when you came down after catching air). The bed/cab move quite a bit more than you'd expect.

ike
01-13-2009, 10:32 AM
It will come and go due to harmonics with a bent driveshaft, but always be there atleast alittle. for the driveshaft, simply get the back wheels up in the air and make sure the truck is properly secured. You can then put it in drive, and watch for any wobbling in the driveshaft. Ususally when they bend/are out of balance, it is enough to be easily seen.

Yanman
01-13-2009, 01:23 PM
I've got it at the Toyota dealership right now, yeah I know I'm takin' it the ass :bhump:, but I got a recall notice for the lower ball joints and figured why not. I'm getting a free alignment and rental car out of it.

Time to place your bets as to what might be wrong. :)

00regcab
01-13-2009, 01:49 PM
OK well I got someone to follow me out on the highway and the first go round it didn't want to cooperate and ran smooth as a baby's butt at 80 mph. :rolleyes:

Before the second round I switched the rear tires from one side to the other, and then took it out. This it I felt a wobble at 71-73 mph, couldn't tell if it switched sides, and my tail couldn't see anything wrong. :confused:

GRRR... :mad:

So now what I'll do is go ahead and go get 'em rebalanced and aligned and see where that leads me.

I wonder if it was just a bad patch of road I was on on I-25 and my suspension is too sensitive. Like I said it was REAL BAD on concrete sections and not asphalt.

To be continued...

I25 north of 119 just SUCKS. Plain and simple, S U C K.

Especially coming south. My truck bounces all over the road coming south, but there's nothing we can really do about it until it gets repaved.

As far as alignment is concerned, if the truck doesnt pull either direction, and the wheels still centered/very close to centered id save your money. Just look into re-balancing the tires. Explain the symptoms to whoever you have do it, and make sure they remove the bead, and spin the tire on the wheel in hopes of a better balance this time around.

As for your drive shaft, very easy to tell if its bent. Put the rear on jack stands, put it in gear, and let it go. If its bent, you will notice it IMMEDIATELY even if the speedo hasnt registered your speed yet.

Ron (i think), at Boulder Driveline will re-tube, and re-balance your drive shaft (if its bent) in a thicker material for $175 if you take him the drive shaft, or its $60 to just re-balance if you take him the shaft already out of the truck.

He was kind enough to let me drive my truck there, and just use my own tools to pull the shaft in front of his shop. Tell him you know Molly, and by now he should remember me. He's seen about $400 from me lol.

RedRunnertc
01-13-2009, 02:01 PM
Ron (i think), at Boulder Driveline will re-tube, and re-balance your drive shaft (if its bent) in a thicker material for $175 if you take him the drive shaft, or its $60 to just re-balance if you take him the shaft already out of the truck.

He was kind enough to let me drive my truck there, and just use my own tools to pull the shaft in front of his shop. Tell him you know Molly, and by now he should remember me. He's seen about $400 from me lol.

Or bring it by the HOW and Molly can take yours over when she takes mine to be balanced... the thicker tubing is 0.090" IIRC - mine has put up with considerable abuse!

(and, yes, his name is Ron)

Yanman
01-13-2009, 02:27 PM
Well, the dealership (Mountain States Toyota) called me back, and gave me the run down.

They say they can't find anything wrong...but will take it out for another test drive. They say its normal for an unloaded truck with the TRD package suspension.

That is one thing I have noticed about this truck over my old '91 is that the suspension is a lot stiffer.

mrdoug
01-13-2009, 02:27 PM
The drive shaft is one of the things I looked at when we had his truck up on jack stands here at my place. I didn't see any wobbling there. At least nothing like Mayhem's at Moab.

In fact the only thing I did see was some tire sidewall action. The rim's looked straight from what I could tell too.

Yanman
01-13-2009, 03:10 PM
As for your drive shaft, very easy to tell if its bent. Put the rear on jack stands, put it in gear, and let it go. If its bent, you will notice it IMMEDIATELY even if the speedo hasnt registered your speed yet.

Ron (i think), at Boulder Driveline will re-tube, and re-balance your drive shaft (if its bent) in a thicker material for $175 if you take him the drive shaft, or its $60 to just re-balance if you take him the shaft already out of the truck.

He was kind enough to let me drive my truck there, and just use my own tools to pull the shaft in front of his shop. Tell him you know Molly, and by now he should remember me. He's seen about $400 from me lol.

Or bring it by the HOW and Molly can take yours over when she takes mine to be balanced... the thicker tubing is 0.090" IIRC - mine has put up with considerable abuse!

(and, yes, his name is Ron)

Thanks guys! :)

I'll definately keep that in mind when my drive shaft does get out of whack.

Does he do custom drive shafts? Ie: for a truck with dual transfer cases?

The good news is that the 4wheeling gods were smiling on me and I didn't jack something up, other than a small dent and chipped paint in the cab, after jumping my truck.

ike
01-13-2009, 03:13 PM
Yes

Lysmachia
01-13-2009, 03:24 PM
For the record Mountain States BLOWS IMHO Burt is where it is at!

And yes if you get the driveshaft to the HOW I will take it in eartly next week.... RON (The guy at Boulder driveline) Does a superb job, AND if you pay in cash you get an extra discount! w00t!

Yanman
01-13-2009, 04:13 PM
For the record Mountain States BLOWS IMHO Burt is where it is at!

I've heard alot of good things about Burt. My Dad got his '94 Camry, and my Grandparents got their '98 Camry from Burt.

Unfortunately Burt is WAAAAAAAAY on the other side of town, and Mountain States is the closest dealership to my place. I've always had good luck with Mountain States. Oh well, different strokes for different folks.

Quick Draw
01-13-2009, 04:53 PM
I hate Mountain States too. I've had good experiences at Stevinson, however. When I took them a tie rod with messed up threads the service manager retapped them for me, and then the parts manager pulled a nut out of a larger package of parts and gave it to me. All for free...no problems... I will definitely go back there again.

FattyB
01-13-2009, 06:37 PM
I hate Mountain States too. I've had good experiences at Stevinson, however. When I took them a tie rod with messed up threads the service manager retapped them for me, and then the parts manager pulled a nut out of a larger package of parts and gave it to me. All for free...no problems... I will definitely go back there again.

Mountain States has f*ked me several times, I will never use their service again. The service dept. was trying to sell me on a waterpump replacement that wasn't needed. After any mechanics place try's to screw me once I will never go near that place again. Just FYI "Just Brakes" is the biggest sh*thole in the state. Ask me how i know:rolleyes:

ike
01-13-2009, 07:26 PM
I think it all depends on who does the work at the dealership. I have had bad experiences at both burt and pederson. I will not go to perderson ever again due to lack of making it right. I will use burt, and that is also where i have had my best service ever. It all depends on what writter and tech you draw. That is one reason it is great to have the techs we do on this board. you know they will take care of you.

mrdoug
01-13-2009, 08:42 PM
Tho I will say (and Ike will agree with me) Pederson has a awesome old guy working the counter. I never remember his name, but he get's a giggle out of the parts I order. Should have seen his face when I asked for the timing belt. I hear he had a good laugh when he sold a new idler pulley a few hours later to the same dumbass. :D

But damn if he doesn't know exactly what I need when I tell him the part name and get's the right parts the first time.

ike
01-13-2009, 08:55 PM
Yep, currently he is my favorite parts guy. Always helpful, always makes sure he gets the right part(even with my old POS's that require pulling out a paper manual), and almost always gives me a good discount.

I should have been more specific, it was pederson's service department that I had an issue with.

Yanman
01-14-2009, 08:03 AM
Well, all I can figure, and I'm probably off base here, is that when I go to my wheeling tires and rims that maybe they provide a little more cushion due to them being larger tires and being on a smaller rims? :dunno:

sl3807
01-14-2009, 02:45 PM
Well, all I can figure, and I'm probably off base here, is that when I go to my wheeling tires and rims that maybe they provide a little more cushion due to them being larger tires and being on a smaller rims?

I would think the opposite... The larger tires are heavier and probably have a thicker sidewall, which actually will make the ride worse. I noticed a huge difference in ride when I upgraded from the stock 265 rugged trail's to the 285 All Terrains.

x2 about Pederson. I know the parts guy you all are refering to, he is great. Bob in the service department, totally different story. Whenever I have to go to Pederson for Service work, I go directly to Steve, the service manager. He has always taken care of me. I won't even talk to any of the service writers.

Yanman, there is an eay test to determine if it is a vibe from the rear driveshaft. Take the rear drive shaft out and drive around in 4HI. Also, if you have your tires rebalanced, take it to a shop that has a road force balancer and make sure they use a bolt on lug adapter. I went around and around with Discount about this, and once they finally used the BOLT-ON lug adaptor and the road force machine, my steering wheel shakes all but disappeared.

I have been experiencing some rear end bounce / vibe with my truck for a while now. I had thought it was tire related, but I am leaning more towards driveline. Let me know what you figure out, it might help point me in a new direction.

00regcab
01-14-2009, 06:53 PM
Yanman, there is an eay test to determine if it is a vibe from the rear driveshaft. Take the rear drive shaft out and drive around in 4HI.

I would advise against this, since the vibration your getting, Yancey; is only at higher speeds. 50+ in 4wd is hard on A LOT of parts when all 4 wheels are actually getting power, not to mention when only the front is pulling the truck and, especially on dry pavement.

ike
01-14-2009, 10:35 PM
I highly doubt it would hurt anything. remember he isnt locked up front so the dry pavement isnt going to cause any problems.

Yanman
01-15-2009, 08:07 AM
As for your drive shaft, very easy to tell if its bent. Put the rear on jack stands, put it in gear, and let it go. If its bent, you will notice it IMMEDIATELY even if the speedo hasnt registered your speed yet.

I will give this a try first this weekend.


Yanman, there is an eay test to determine if it is a vibe from the rear driveshaft. Take the rear drive shaft out and drive around in 4HI.

Then I will try this.

However, I'm beginning to think it might have something to do with the suspension. If thats the case, then I'll have to just deal with it until I get the cash to lift the rear of my truck.

sl3807
01-15-2009, 09:08 AM
I would advise against this, since the vibration your getting, Yancey; is only at higher speeds. 50+ in 4wd is hard on A LOT of parts when all 4 wheels are actually getting power, not to mention when only the front is pulling the truck and, especially on dry pavement.

I thought I had read in one of the original posts that the vibes were felt from 10+ mph, they just got worse at 60.

Yeah, trying this at 50+ would be very sketchy. I have done it with my truck a few times, not too bad until I hit 40mph, then the truck is all over the place.

RedRunnertc
01-15-2009, 11:48 AM
What about a broken centering pin in the leaf pack?

Sucka
01-15-2009, 11:54 AM
So they balanced fine, that wasn't the issue?

etan
01-15-2009, 01:01 PM
I will use burt, and that is also where i have had my best service ever.

lololololololololollolollollolollollolollolollolol lollollolollol

00regcab
01-15-2009, 01:22 PM
I highly doubt it would hurt anything. remember he isnt locked up front so the dry pavement isnt going to cause any problems.

Its still not smart to use 4wd on dry surfaces at higher speeds, too much resistance, and drag on everything. I know hes not locked in the front, its still not a smart idea.

not to mention doing it in a RWD vehicle, with the rear driveshaft removed so only the front is pulling.

Troy may be on to something here i think.

Blown shocks maybe?

Yanman
01-15-2009, 01:36 PM
So they balanced fine, that wasn't the issue?

Yeah, the delearship couldn't find anything regarding balancing, and they aligned it with no issues either.

After the run, I switched back to my street tires and checked to make sure nothing was severly bent or out of place and nothing jumped out at me.

What about a broken centering pin in the leaf pack?

How do I check that?

Troy may be on to something here i think.

Blown shocks maybe?

Last weekend I looked over the shocks and they seem to be fine. Nothing leaking. So how do I check for a blown shock? If it is a blown shock does anyone out there have a stock TRD bilistien shock I can get off ya?

sl3807
01-15-2009, 02:44 PM
Its still not smart to use 4wd on dry surfaces at higher speeds, too much resistance, and drag on everything. I know hes not locked in the front, its still not a smart idea.

not to mention doing it in a RWD vehicle, with the rear driveshaft removed so only the front is pulling.

Troy may be on to something here i think.

Blown shocks maybe?

There is a TSB available for my truck to change out the rear engine mount, effectively changing the angle on the u-joint at the transfer case. The first step in diagnosing the problem is to remove the rear drive shaft and drive it in 4wd to see if the shudder at ~30 mph is still there. If TOYOTA says its okay, and actually recommends this procedure for diagnostic reasons, I have to disagree with your above statement.

HINT
On 4WD trucks the following method can be used to confirm if this TSB applies to the vehicle:
• Shift into 4WD High.
• Lock the center differential.
• Remove the rear driveshaft and test drive the vehicle.
• The vibration will be completely eliminated if condition is a 2nd order driveshaft vibration.
NOTE
This TSB will NOT repair vibrations observed at speeds above or below the 15 – 25 mph speed
range.

Now, I would not recommend putting many miles on it this way, but it is a hell of a lot safer than running the truck up to speed with the rear axle up on jack stands.

An easy way to tell if your shocks are blown is to jump on the rear bumper. If the back of the truck absorbs the bounce and returns to ride height without several bounces, shocks are good. If it bounces up and down a few times, they might be blown. This may not be the best method, but on my 94 pick-up, when I blew the shocks, the rear end would bounce up and down 4-5 times before it would settle. On my 07, It compresses and then returns to stock height with no bounce.

Can you see the spring pin on the top of the leafs on the older Tacoma's? With the newer trucks you would have to remove the U-bolts to check the centering pin (the bump stop covers the head of the bolt.

fjcruzer
01-15-2009, 03:13 PM
I've got it at the Toyota dealership right now, yeah I know I'm takin' it the ass :bhump:, but I got a recall notice for the lower ball joints and figured why not. I'm getting a free alignment and rental car out of it.

Time to place your bets as to what might be wrong. :)

It needs a colonoscopy:saw:

Yanman
01-15-2009, 05:56 PM
Blown shocks maybe?

I think this might be the problem.

I did what sl3807, suggested to test it out and there is quite a bit of bounce.

Is there another test that I can try out just to double check?

Again, if my shocks are blown, is there anybody, or does anybody know someone who upgraded their vehicle from stock shocks and still has them laying around and wants to get rid of 'em? I'd like to replace 'em with TRD bilstien shocks but it doen't have to be bilstiens.

I really don't want to have to go buy new shocks, especially if I'm going to get rid of 'em when I lift the rear.

sl3807
01-15-2009, 06:26 PM
I think this might be the problem.

I did what sl3807, suggested to test it out and there is quite a bit of bounce.

Is there another test that I can try out just to double check?

Again, if my shocks are blown, is there anybody, or does anybody know someone who upgraded their vehicle from stock shocks and still has them laying around and wants to get rid of 'em? I'd like to replace 'em with TRD bilstien shocks but it doen't have to be bilstiens.

I really don't want to have to go buy new shocks, especially if I'm going to get rid of 'em when I lift the rear.

I think the only way to be sure would be to remove one and cycle it a few times. If it is blown, I think you should be able to feel the air bubbles (the stroke will not feel smooth or have any resistance).

Someone else may know of an easier method.

ike
01-15-2009, 07:05 PM
I would just buy a new set of shocks, as then you know you are getting good ones. I may have an extra pair of shocks laying around, but not the stockers. Let me know and I can look.

00regcab
01-15-2009, 07:34 PM
There is a TSB available for my truck to change out the rear engine mount, effectively changing the angle on the u-joint at the transfer case. The first step in diagnosing the problem is to remove the rear drive shaft and drive it in 4wd to see if the shudder at ~30 mph is still there. If TOYOTA says its okay, and actually recommends this procedure for diagnostic reasons, I have to disagree with your above statement.


I was referring more to the driving down the highway in 4wd portion. Not the slow driving portion.

mrdoug
01-15-2009, 07:46 PM
Did you test only the rear shocks? that air you got would have pounded on your front more than your back. I know you feel the vibe coming from the rear, but wondering if maybe it might be misleading you as you really worked the front of your truck snow wheeling, not the rear at all from what I could tell.

ike
01-15-2009, 10:03 PM
From my experience shocks wouldnt cause what you are describing, but would not really know without driving the truck.

Yanman
01-15-2009, 10:12 PM
I would just buy a new set of shocks, as then you know you are getting good ones. I may have an extra pair of shocks laying around, but not the stockers. Let me know and I can look.

That would be great if you could, non-stock is fine as long as they will fit a taco with no lift in the rear.

Did you test only the rear shocks? that air you got would have pounded on your front more than your back. I know you feel the vibe coming from the rear, but wondering if maybe it might be misleading you as you really worked the front of your truck snow wheeling, not the rear at all from what I could tell.

I'll test out the shocks in the front too. If they are jacked I can take them back to ToyTec and hopefully get them replaced. I hope the life time warranty covers acts of stupidity.

From my experience shocks wouldnt cause what you are describing, but would not really know without driving the truck.

Maybe we can arrange a test drive? It won't be this weekend, but maybe next? If you find those other shocks you can bring them too.

ike
01-15-2009, 10:18 PM
i will look for them, but i will not have time to until monday.

Yanman
01-16-2009, 06:05 AM
i will look for them, but i will not have time to until monday.

Thats OK by me. Like I said I can't meet this weekend.

I appreciate you looking for the shocks and willing to meet me. Maybe we can meet at a HOW? I'm usually off every weekend.

I just find it strange that the dealership would miss an opportunity to rape me for more for money and replace the shocks or fix whatever maybe wrong. You guys are probably right about Mountain States, I was not impressed with their performance this time around.

Then again maybe they are right and its just how the truck rides and this whole thing maybe just in my head and its all for nothing.

I'll get my second opinion when I meet Ike, and hopefully give me piece of mind.

Sucka
01-16-2009, 10:33 AM
Then again maybe they are right and its just how the truck rides and this whole thing maybe just in my head and its all for nothing.

Well if it didn't ride like that before the last wheeling trip, i'm sure you have a valid complaint. I'm sure at the moment you're likely to notice every little thing because of that jump naturally, but a rear wobble isn't something you can just make up in your head ;)

That is odd about the dealership. If there was something even remotely wrong they would have tried to collect on it. Maybe you're just overplaying it a tad even though it's still there? Besides our little ride to Autozone, have you ridden in a Tacoma lately other than your own? Maybe it is normal :confused: Get Doug or someone else more mechanically inclined to ride in it with you.

Yanman
01-16-2009, 10:57 AM
Besides our little ride to Autozone, have you ridden in a Tacoma lately other than your own? Maybe it is normal :confused: Get Doug or someone else more mechanically inclined to ride in it with you.

I think that is a good plan, hence I will meeting up with Ike and getting his take on things.

When I was riding in your Taco I wasn't thinking about feeling how the ride felt.

I would like to get this thing resolved and move on. It seems I've been obsessing over this thing ever since I jumped my truck and I'm getting sick of it.

Sucka
01-16-2009, 11:25 AM
Yeah I understand, you're probably noticing every little thing since that jump, I know I would. If you want to test my shocks or need any help let me know, I'm just up the road.

00regcab
01-16-2009, 01:11 PM
Im pretty close to you as well Yancey, so we could most likely set something up sometime this week if Ike isnt able to make it.

Yanman
01-16-2009, 02:02 PM
If you want to test my shocks or need any help let me know, I'm just up the road.

Im pretty close to you as well Yancey, so we could most likely set something up sometime this week if Ike isnt able to make it.

That would be great guys. Thanks alot.

mrdoug
01-16-2009, 02:25 PM
Nothing against Ike, but I know that Nate (00RegCab) has more experience in figuring that kind of thing out. He's had enough vibe's coming from his truck he's had to track down and fix.

I don't have that experience yet... I'm still new to alot of this. I've learned alot and can figure out quite a bit of stuff, but I'm far from the level of others in this club.

Yanman
01-16-2009, 02:50 PM
How about this, next weekend, 24th and 25th, if Sucka and 00regcab are available, we can check things out.

Can't do it at my place because they have a rule about working on vehicles, even though I do it anyway, but they might get more irritated if a bunch of us are there crawling under my truck.

If it turns out I need to replace my shocks I can meet up with Ike, if he finds those other shocks.

Hopefully I'm worried over nothing.

00regcab
01-16-2009, 02:57 PM
Next weekend should work fine. Might be able to get ya over here, but not sure just yet. I'll keep you posted for sure.

Shouldnt be too terribly hard to find something i dont think.

Worst case, (if nothing else is obvious) we could swap the shocks out of my truck too just to go for a quick drive on to see if it changes anything.

ike
01-16-2009, 03:15 PM
shocks are on my 79, wich isnt moving anytime soon, and needs a different size. They were about two years old on the taco when it was stock height.

Sucka
01-16-2009, 04:57 PM
I would offer to do it at my place, but i am also in an apartment. Wouldn't be a problem doing some mild wrenching, I don't think they would say anything about that. Problem is, I don't have any tools outside the basics in case it's more than just shocks :(

But i'm up for whatever to help out in any way i can, just let me know. Nothing worse than having a nagging issue you can't figure out.

mrdoug
01-16-2009, 05:11 PM
If you get really hard up for a flat spot to swap some shocks, give me a buzz and see if my driveway is going to be busy... Kind of out of your way, but the offer stands.

Yanman
01-17-2009, 08:33 AM
Next weekend should work fine. Might be able to get ya over here, but not sure just yet. I'll keep you posted for sure.

Shouldnt be too terribly hard to find something i dont think.

Worst case, (if nothing else is obvious) we could swap the shocks out of my truck too just to go for a quick drive on to see if it changes anything.

If you get really hard up for a flat spot to swap some shocks, give me a buzz and see if my driveway is going to be busy... Kind of out of your way, but the offer stands.

Cool, let me know if were OK to come over or not, say by Wednesday the 21? If we can't work on it at 00regcab's we can head up to mrdoug's, which may not be a bad thing because then we can test the ride on those really bad parts of I-25.

shocks are on my 79, wich isnt moving anytime soon, and needs a different size. They were about two years old on the taco when it was stock height.

Thanks Ike, I'll let you know if we need those shocks.

I would offer to do it at my place, but i am also in an apartment. Wouldn't be a problem doing some mild wrenching, I don't think they would say anything about that. Problem is, I don't have any tools outside the basics in case it's more than just shocks :(

But i'm up for whatever to help out in any way i can, just let me know. Nothing worse than having a nagging issue you can't figure out.

It sounds like it will be at 00regcab's or mrdoug's place. We'll let you know, if you still would like to lend a hand.

So after we have a place ironed out what is the plan? Are we going to take my truck out for a test drive so you guys can feel out it handles then have me ride in your tacos for comparison? Then, if needed start, taking things apart?

ike
01-17-2009, 07:19 PM
If you do it at 00regcabs place be sure to meet his mom.

Yanman
01-17-2009, 08:55 PM
If you do it at 00regcabs place be sure to meet his mom.

Why?

ike
01-17-2009, 09:09 PM
Just an on-going joke started by Hank. Make sure you meet her, she is a very nice woman if you know what i mean.

Yanman
01-17-2009, 10:33 PM
Gottcha.

Lysmachia
01-17-2009, 11:07 PM
Nate's gonna bring his Mom to the HOW North tomorrow. SO might as well come by here...

(We are gonna be cleaning the garage then wrenching/welding on stuff starting at 11:00 am) Feel free to come by here if you wanna work on your junk.

Give us a call (3zero3) 774-92 fifty-five

(We are at 119 and 1-25 (Firestone/Longmont Exit)

ike
01-18-2009, 10:06 AM
Wish i could make it. I need some more molly food soon!

Yanman
01-18-2009, 11:48 AM
Nate's gonna bring his Mom to the HOW North tomorrow. SO might as well come by here...

(We are gonna be cleaning the garage then wrenching/welding on stuff starting at 11:00 am) Feel free to come by here if you wanna work on your junk.

Give us a call (3zero3) 774-92 fifty-five

(We are at 119 and 1-25 (Firestone/Longmont Exit)

Thanks for the invite, but I'm all booked up for this weekend.

However I am working on a design to mod my pre fabed sliders, and will need some welding help. I'll either keep adding to this thread or I'll add more to my "Need welding help too..." thread.

http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117912

mrdoug
01-19-2009, 09:08 AM
Cool, let me know if were OK to come over or not, say by Wednesday the 21? If we can't work on it at 00regcab's we can head up to mrdoug's, which may not be a bad thing because then we can test the ride on those really bad parts of I-25.

You can use my driveway on Wed, but I'll be working downstairs (or pretending to anyways).

Yanman
01-19-2009, 09:48 AM
You can use my driveway on Wed, but I'll be working downstairs (or pretending to anyways).

Sorry if I was not real clear.

I wanted to know by Wednesday about the availability of going to your place or 00regcab's place for the weekend of the 24th and 25th.

I can only do things on the weekends, due to my M-F, 7a to 4p job.

mrdoug
01-19-2009, 10:09 AM
gotcha.. well, I got no plans as of right now. If anything I might be in the garage working on my junk as well.

ike
01-19-2009, 08:23 PM
I am thinking of running 7 mile, but if i dont i will be free on Sunday.

Yanman
01-21-2009, 06:26 AM
Next weekend should work fine. Might be able to get ya over here, but not sure just yet. I'll keep you posted for sure.

Shouldnt be too terribly hard to find something i dont think.

Worst case, (if nothing else is obvious) we could swap the shocks out of my truck too just to go for a quick drive on to see if it changes anything.

So, am I going to be able to swing by your place sometime this weekend?

00regcab
01-21-2009, 01:17 PM
We can most likely set something up, not 100% sure which day yet though. As i've got a few things of my own to take care of first. I'll keep you updated though :kewl:

Quick Draw
01-21-2009, 02:53 PM
Did you get your tires balanced and an alignment yet?

00regcab
01-21-2009, 06:33 PM
Did you get your tires balanced and an alignment yet?

he talked about that on the last page when you were bashing on a dealership.

Yanman
01-23-2009, 06:02 AM
We can most likely set something up, not 100% sure which day yet though. As i've got a few things of my own to take care of first. I'll keep you updated though :kewl:

Cool.

However something has come up for me at my job, which means I'm going to have to work either Saturday or Sunday depending on your schedule.

But, if you are still not sure which day then we might need to put this off until the next weekend (31st and the 1st).

00regcab
01-23-2009, 01:47 PM
You have PM.

Sucka
01-23-2009, 02:11 PM
If you guys get together Saturday and need a hand let me know, i'm available. Not a whole lot i can do, but the offer stands :D

Yanman
01-23-2009, 10:17 PM
If you guys get together Saturday and need a hand let me know, i'm available. Not a whole lot i can do, but the offer stands :D

We'll be getting together on Sunday. So We'll have to catch you next time. Thanks for the offer! :D

ike
01-26-2009, 12:37 PM
Get it cured??

AxleIke
01-26-2009, 12:49 PM
I would advise against this, since the vibration your getting, Yancey; is only at higher speeds. 50+ in 4wd is hard on A LOT of parts when all 4 wheels are actually getting power, not to mention when only the front is pulling the truck and, especially on dry pavement.

Dry pavement in 4wd is not advised. Quick way to a blown tcase.

Running 50 mph in 4hi is just fine on dirt. Done it MANY MANY times for long periods of time.

Running in front wheel drive isn't a big deal either. The part that has issues is when all 4 wheels are being driven. The front and rear spin at different speeds everytime you turn. In a non diff tcase, you put a ton of pressure on the internals. If the rear driveline is out, its just fine.

I don't recommend doing that forever, as the front diff is weaker than the rear, so don't go abusing it. For a test drive though, it'd be just fine.

thefatkid
01-26-2009, 01:28 PM
Dry pavement in 4wd is not advised. Quick way to a blown tcase.

Running 50 mph in 4hi is just fine on dirt. Done it MANY MANY times for long periods of time.

Running in front wheel drive isn't a big deal either. The part that has issues is when all 4 wheels are being driven. The front and rear spin at different speeds everytime you turn. In a non diff tcase, you put a ton of pressure on the internals. If the rear driveline is out, its just fine.

I don't recommend doing that forever, as the front diff is weaker than the rear, so don't go abusing it. For a test drive though, it'd be just fine.

Another note as to why it is ok to run front only. The front differential is reverse rotation, meaning that the gear is riding on the drive side in the front differental (stronger then the old trucks). This is also the same differential used in the AWD Sequoia and 4runner (small housing changes but the same unit).

Pull the rear shaft, drive it to 70mph. Becarefull if you stab the gas though, torque steer (?) might jerk the wheel from your hands.

Yanman
01-26-2009, 01:34 PM
Get it cured??

Not yet. Nate had to get a bunch of stuff done, and mother nature made things difficult too, cause it was f'ing cold out there!

So, we are going to have to wait for next weekend (31st and 1st).

Does anyone know if the Northern HOW (I-25 and H119) open next weekend as an alternate in case Nate has more stuff he has to get done? Nothing against Nate, I completely understand that things can come up, and they need to get done. But I'm just looking for closure in whatever form it maybe and soon.

00regcab
01-26-2009, 02:33 PM
Ya, sorry Yancey, some bullshit came up i had to take care of.

Next weekend will be a go for sure as it looks right now. Nothing should get in the way.

Yanman
01-26-2009, 03:03 PM
Ya, sorry Yancey, some bullshit came up i had to take care of.

Next weekend will be a go for sure as it looks right now. Nothing should get in the way.

It's all good, man, it's all good. :cool:

RedRunnertc
01-26-2009, 05:15 PM
We have a W4TW deal on Sunday.

Yanman
01-28-2009, 09:33 AM
OK Nate how are we looking for this weekend?

If you are good, then which day do you prefer?

Yanman
01-31-2009, 04:47 PM
OK, prognosis is...slightly bad rear wheel bearings. Not bad enough to where I shouldn't drive the vehicle, but its just a nusence I'll have to deal with until it gets worse, if it gets worse.

Thanks again Nate for helping me diagnose the problem. :)

So, technically I don't need rear shocks. But I'll still take 'em off your hands Ike.

By the way who's the manufacturer of the shocks? Just curious.

00regcab
01-31-2009, 05:24 PM
Just the driver side wheel bearing had some play, Yancey. The passenger side was fine.

Glad i could help :kewl:

ike
01-31-2009, 08:33 PM
Will have to go and look.

I think i may be replacing wheel bearings up front here soon also, but would like to wait until i have the stuff together to do the manual hub swap.

RedRunnertc
01-31-2009, 10:03 PM
Yancey - this isn't something that can wait. When that bearing goes, you will lose the rear wheel off the truck since the rear axle is semi-floating.

Need to get it done.

Yanman
02-01-2009, 01:24 AM
Yancey - this isn't something that can wait. When that bearing goes, you will lose the rear wheel off the truck since the rear axle is semi-floating.

Need to get it done.

Great.

:mad: @#$*!!! *&%@#!!! :mad:

OK, can I get it done on a weekend with someone with in CoTTORA?

Nate has told me that its not an easy thing to get done because a shop has to press off the bearing and press on a new one.

I'm a little reluctant to go back to a dealership, especially the last one I went to, I'd love to take it to Burt but like I said its on the other side of town and I work in Boulder. Guess I could take it to Boulder Toyota, any good or bad things about that dealership I should be aware of?

ike
02-01-2009, 01:38 AM
Have you talked to thefatkid?

00regcab
02-01-2009, 02:52 AM
Troy, the play in the wheel was minuscule, the bearing is probably just barely starting to show signs of wear.

I wouldn't say its something that must be done, like NOW. But it definitely shouldn't be put off for months and months. The rear wheel bearings in my axle (when i bought it) were TRASHED (well over an inch of play/movement, the scary part is they came out of a truck that was still being driven), the play in Yanceys is just a slight thud/clunk that you can feel. Not any real excessive movement.

Brian (thefatkid) would probably have the tools to do it at Burt, if you could set something up with him to have it done on a saturday or something, that would be your best bet. We could MAYBE even set something up, where we can pull that shaft out, then run it down to Brian, have him do it real quick, and bring it back and put it back together. It only takes about 15 minutes to pull the axle shaft/drum/wheel bearing assembly.

RedRunnertc
02-01-2009, 08:41 AM
I work in Boulder. Guess I could take it to Boulder Toyota, any good or bad things about that dealership I should be aware of?

Ask for Jacob at Boulder Toyota - he is modded truck/COTTORA friendly. He built Molly's rig.

Yanman
02-01-2009, 01:45 PM
Ask for Jacob at Boulder Toyota - he is modded truck/COTTORA friendly. He built Molly's rig.

Thanks.

What's his last name, in case there are more than one Jacobs working there.

Go ahead and send me a PM if you don't want to advetize his last name.

RedRunnertc
02-01-2009, 06:43 PM
Saunders - but there's only one Jacob there.

ike
02-01-2009, 10:20 PM
Are you sure the wheel bearing is the culprit? With that little play i would be suprised if it was causing the problem. That would bring us back to possible a bent rear housing:confused:

But I may be wrong also.

00regcab
02-01-2009, 10:59 PM
Ike, its something Yancey and i discussed a little the day we looked at it. I personally couldn't feel anything overly abnormal in the truck. Everything seemed to ride great, and track great.

Just upon inspection of the rear, one of the bearings had a very small amount of play in it. A bent housing is definitely not the problem lol

ike
02-01-2009, 11:05 PM
Cool.

Yanman
02-03-2009, 10:56 AM
Update:

Well I'm going to have Jacob from Boulder Toyota take a quick look at my truck at Noon on Wednesday and see whats up. If I need to get the wheel bearings fixed I'll probably get if done this coming weekend (7th and 8th).

Thanks again Troy, for recomending Jacob. :kewl:

ike
02-03-2009, 01:30 PM
Might want to think about possibly replacing axle seals while they are in there also.

Yanman
02-05-2009, 10:28 AM
Good News and Bad News.

Good news is that Jacob at Boulder Toyota found what was wrong with my truck.

The bad news is whats wrong.

I have a bent axle shaft on the driver's side and my rear U-joints by my rear diff are shot.

I told Jacob to go ahead and get it fixed.

So my wallet is going to get a lot lighter, mainly due to cost of parts.

ike
02-05-2009, 10:43 AM
That sucks man.

mrdoug
02-05-2009, 11:01 AM
which is bent? front or rear axle?

I knew your driveshaft was dry but I didn't notice any play in the joints.. might have missed it tho.

Yanman
02-05-2009, 11:51 AM
which is bent? front or rear axle?


Rear.

A good thing is I did ask Jacob to save me the old parts from the axle assembly. I can use it to limp off a trail in case I break an axle shaft.

ike
02-05-2009, 11:58 AM
If you really want to carry all of that around.

RedRunnertc
02-05-2009, 12:57 PM
Glad you found what was wrong before this happened:

http://cottora.shutterfly.com/1918

Yanman
02-05-2009, 01:19 PM
If you really want to carry all of that around.

Yeah it will be PITA but I look at it like this, if you take a condom with you while your out on a date you'll never get any, So if I take a spare rear axle assy w/ me the rear axles will never break. :D

Glad you found what was wrong before this happened:

http://cottora.shutterfly.com/1918

OUCH!!! :eek:

00regcab
02-05-2009, 01:30 PM
Well the bent axle shaft explains the play in the wheel.

I didnt think it would be quite that serious though. Then again, without pulling it out theres really no way of telling if its bent.

Volcom
02-05-2009, 01:32 PM
I figured it was either a bent shaft or housing after watching the air time on the Rollins Pass videos :D

Yanman
02-05-2009, 01:36 PM
I don't think catching air helped.

But I was getting a vibe long before I joined CoTTORA and before my truck even touched a dirt road.

I think my air time just made it worse.

00regcab
02-05-2009, 01:39 PM
I think the previous owner may of slid the ass end out into a curb/large object of some sort at some point in time. Like we were talking about, the day you stopped by here.

I dont think the air time would of bent it that much, your rear wheels didnt even hardly leave the ground. The front took about 90% of the impact. But with it already creating problems, then jumping it, i would have to agree that did it in lol

ike
02-05-2009, 02:01 PM
So when are we going to have another jump audition at rollins?

Yanman
02-05-2009, 02:17 PM
:lmao:

Well, it ain't gonna be with my truck, not untill I go Baja with it.

RedRunnertc
02-05-2009, 03:14 PM
I think the previous owner may of slid the ass end out into a curb/large object of some sort at some point in time. Like we were talking about, the day you stopped by here.

that would explain why the shaft is bent but the housing isn't better than your little jump would.

Yanman
02-05-2009, 03:54 PM
I also found out some other things that the previous owner did to that truck.

The U-joints that are being replaced are after market, not Toyota. Which leads me to WHY!?!? When I got it, it was still under the factory warranty, so why not take it to a Toyota dealer and get it fixed for free with honest to goodness Toyota parts?

If I had known the info I have now back when I got it, I would have taken advantage of the warranty and got this thing fixed long ago.

But thats the problem when you buy a used vehicle, there are no signs that say I was wrecked, or I have a bad drive line. Most of that stuff is not even recorded on carfax.