best synthetic line

[hockeyplayer4]

i have searched around on this for a while and found out a lot of brands. but i was j/w whats the best brand of synthetic line you can buy? i figure if im going to do this i want to get the best. what length, line size, etc. thanks a lot

-zach

[triplefive]

I have the Winchline brand sythetic rope and have had zero issues with it.
http://www.winchline.com/winchline.htm

Another good choice would be Amsteel Blue.
http://www.amsteelblue.com/

Once you make the switch you will never look back. Don't forget though that it is a good idea to get a new fairlead. Either one with plastic rollers or a hawse fairlead.

[hockeyplayer4]

oh yeah im definetly getting a new fairlead with it. i was just wondering what peoples opinions were. theres amsteel blue, winchline, viking. what length? i would think longer would be better, but also wouldnt that make it harder to make shorter tougher line pulls?

[cvlighthouse]

I have the Winchline brand sythetic rope and have had zero issues with it.
http://www.winchline.com/winchline.htm

Another good choice would be Amsteel Blue.
http://www.amsteelblue.com/

Once you make the switch you will never look back. Don't forget though that it is a good idea to get a new fairlead. Either one with plastic rollers or a hawse fairlead.
If I'm not mistaken, Viking trail line from winchline.com uses amsteel blue line for their ropes.

[hockeyplayer4]

Viking Trail Line© winch lines are Genuine AmSteel-Blue™ with Samthane™, a special coating to help resist abrasion. The raw material in AmSteel-Blue™ is made from Genuine Dyneema® SK-75 HMPE fiber, "which is the worlds strongest fiber™" made by DSM in the Netherlands.



quoted from winchline.com

[TacoDell]

I utilize the MasterPull 5/16th Superline... 100ft.

http://www.masterpull.com/cpage.cfm?cpid=413

and I like it alot... tho' probaby not the cheapest shit going

MasterPull's competition comparison spec chart...

http://www.masterpull.com/cpage.cfm?cpid=197

This dicussion has been held numerous times before...

bother to search ?

[TEJASYOTA]

Search is your buddy....

(12) pages...but these are what I saw were informative.

http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=104607&highlight=synthetic+line

http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43377&highlight=synthetic+line

http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28099&highlight=synthetic+line

http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12149&highlight=synthetic+line

http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3315&highlight=synthetic+line

[01 Tundra]

Viking combo line here.

[flyingwil]

The Viking lines (http://www.sierraexpeditions.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=88) are about the best we can get our hands on.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_gR8wSd9MvMc/Sbitwnhz8wI/AAAAAAAAFIE/CRtkyzqhw4g/s800/DSC_2508.JPG

Sierra Expeditions is running Viking on the FJ (above picture), and the Liberty. Both the red and white Tacomas are running Master Pull line on them.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f374/nicwillman/DSC03366.jpg

http://lh6.google.com/flyingwil/R_m5koxeItI/AAAAAAAACRQ/MYpNMR1-Seg/s800/IMG_1737.JPG.jpg

[hytenor]

I still have some of the early Amsteel 5/16" on my truck...been, what...5yrs? something like that...and have beat the shit out of it. I'll probably replace it after this next season with some of the same that I bought from a member here for cheap ;)

[WallyP226]

I still have some of the early Amsteel 5/16" on my truck...been, what...5yrs? something like that...and have beat the shit out of it. I'll probably replace it after this next season with some of the same that I bought from a member here for cheap ;)


5 years, 5/16"s? Beat the heck out of it? Hmmmmmmm What do you mean by beat the heck out of it? Is it freyed or anything?

I don't ask to question your experience at all, but its got me to thinking. I bought 3/8s", it works well, but its rated at 2.5x the strength of the winch. Zero failures but it is starting to frey a little. Anyways, you have me thinking about 5/16s".

Something else I noted, is that I am starting to see wear on my composite fairlead, ie melted/ worn. When I started looking around, Pirate had two good discussions on this. So, I have purchased an aluminum fairlead.

Wally

[BrandonH]

Master-pull FTW!

[hytenor]

5 years, 5/16"s? Beat the heck out of it? Hmmmmmmm What do you mean by beat the heck out of it? Is it freyed or anything?

I don't ask to question your experience at all, but its got me to thinking. I bought 3/8s", it works well, but its rated at 2.5x the strength of the winch. Zero failures but it is starting to frey a little. Anyways, you have me thinking about 5/16s".

Something else I noted, is that I am starting to see wear on my composite fairlead, ie melted/ worn. When I started looking around, Pirate had two good discussions on this. So, I have purchased an aluminum fairlead.

Wally
5/16 is rated at something around 11,700# so my 9000# winch would take a dump before the line would :p
frayed? big time, along with faded color, dirty as hell, etc. It probably has about the same strength as steel line at this point :p

I did manage to melt the very end at the drum while snatch-blocking oak trees out of a canyon...cut the logs a tad big :p but, that was a 10min fix when I got home. I was still able to finish working that day by leaving about 3/4 of a row of wraps on the drum.

[WallyP226]

Was it the line that melted on itself, or was it the drum that got hot and melted the line?

I am thinking about 125sh' of 5/16s for a planetary gear Ramsey.

Wally

[BrandonH]

Masterpull 5/16" 100 ft. I love mine.

[hytenor]

Was it the line that melted on itself, or was it the drum that got hot and melted the line?

I am thinking about 125sh' of 5/16s for a planetary gear Ramsey.

Wally

line melted due to drum heat...common thing on extreme or constant pulls with synth lines which is why some companies splice in a 10' section of line with a higher melting point than the rest of the rope. We were pulling logs for hrs...one after another.

[TacoCrazy]

That's interesting Chris considering a winch should build very little drum heat when winching in, as the drum brake is not applied. The only real time you should get excessive heat on the drum is powering OUT, which they recommend you don't do for long because you are going against the applied brake. Mine looked as you describe but a good friend of mine (Off road shop owner, avid long time wheeler) looked at it and said it looked that way from extreme pressure on the first wrap of line on the drum.

[d33pt]

The Viking lines (http://www.sierraexpeditions.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=88) are about the best we can get our hands on.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_gR8wSd9MvMc/Sbitwnhz8wI/AAAAAAAAFIE/CRtkyzqhw4g/s800/DSC_2508.JPG

Sierra Expeditions is running Viking on the FJ (above picture), and the Liberty. Both the red and white Tacomas are running Master Pull line on them.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f374/nicwillman/DSC03366.jpg

http://lh6.google.com/flyingwil/R_m5koxeItI/AAAAAAAACRQ/MYpNMR1-Seg/s800/IMG_1737.JPG.jpg


You have pics of 3 different types of hooks/eyes on those lines. Which one is the best? I don't even know what they're all called.

[TacoCrazy]

The first two are types of thimbles, they require you use a shackle/D-ring and are typically considered a good choice. The last is a typical hook with a spring loaded clasp so it won't fall off the strap, works fine.

[hytenor]

That's interesting Chris considering a winch should build very little drum heat when winching in, as the drum brake is not applied. The only real time you should get excessive heat on the drum is powering OUT, which they recommend you don't do for long because you are going against the applied brake. Mine looked as you describe but a good friend of mine (Off road shop owner, avid long time wheeler) looked at it and said it looked that way from extreme pressure on the first wrap of line on the drum.

I know, I was really surprised to see it...read the 'winch bible' on Pirate many years ago... as for the pressure theory...only the last inch or so was melted, the rest of the line was not effected at all. :confused: Since the line is attached to the drum on the same side as the motor I was wondering if that's what overheated.

[TacoCrazy]

Could be..My synthetic has been on there for about 5 years now and has been pulled so hard it would stand out straight 5 feet in front of me under no load..Like a good tape measure will for instance.

[hytenor]

Could be..My synthetic has been on there for about 5 years now and has been pulled so hard it would stand out straight 5 feet in front of me under no load..Like a good tape measure will for instance.

..or a good...

:p

[TacoCrazy]

..or a good...

:p

Nice...:)

[WallyP226]

I have heard of synthetic line cutting itself when under a near max load for a given rope.

My father, whom spent decades building and rigging radio and TV towers using all kinds of cable and synethic ropes has seen that occur on more than one occassion. I have not seen it however in an automotive application, but that could be not enough time behind a winch or just lucky?

Also, I read somewhere, probably on Pirate, about how planetary geared winches produce more heat than spur gear winches, but that doesn't explain why the line was more melted on the end towards the motor? I dunno? :dunno:

I did go with an aluminum fairlead this go around, based on the last inspection of my composite fairlead.

Wally

[hytenor]

I have heard of synthetic line cutting itself when under a near max load for a given rope.

My father, whom spent decades building and rigging radio and TV towers using all kinds of cable and synethic ropes has seen that occur on more than one occassion. I have not seen it however in an automotive application, but that could be not enough time behind a winch or just lucky?



line break point: 11,700#
winch: 9,000#
:rolleyes:

next...:p

[Topper]

I had never used synth line prior to a few months ago, but the one thing I did notice was I needed nearly a full row of wrap on the drum to take up the slip on the drum.

Have you folks had to "roughen" the surface of the Warn drum?

[Bear]

Viking combo line here.

The Viking lines (http://www.sierraexpeditions.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=88) are about the best we can get our hands on.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_gR8wSd9MvMc/Sbitwnhz8wI/AAAAAAAAFIE/CRtkyzqhw4g/s800/DSC_2508.JPG

Sierra Expeditions is running Viking on the FJ (above picture), and the Liberty. Both the red and white Tacomas are running Master Pull line on them.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f374/nicwillman/DSC03366.jpg

http://lh6.google.com/flyingwil/R_m5koxeItI/AAAAAAAACRQ/MYpNMR1-Seg/s800/IMG_1737.JPG.jpg
X's a bunch!

Wil turned me on to Viking about a year and half ago, and I love my line.

just remember the longer the line you have on the spool the weaker your winch becomes unless you are using a snatch block. but you never want to take the spool down further than 8 wraps (if I remember right) left on the spool.

[Topper]

X's a bunch!

Wil turned me on to Viking about a year and half ago, and I love my line.

just remember the longer the line you have off the spool the weaker your winch becomes unless you are using a snatch block. and you never want to take the spool down further than 8 wraps (if I remember right) left on the spool.

The opposite actually.

The fewer layers on the drum, the greater the winching power.

from Warns specs on the M8000
Pull by layer
layer/Lbs(Kgs.)
1/8000(3629)
2/7280(3302)
3/6670(3026)
4/6230(2826)

You are right about wraps on the drum though.

[WallyP226]

line break point: 11,700#
winch: 9,000#
:rolleyes:

next...:p

I did a little bit of Googling on this, what I gathered was that synthetic line can "look" fine but be fatigued by extended use.

With an automotive aplication, very few people use their winches more than a few dozen times a year. Thats a lot different than using a winch 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, for months at a time.

In the last year, I have used my winch 9 times, some of the pulls were a few feet and some of them were 40 yards. IMO that may be the difference.

The atributions to the cause of failure ie "cutting itself" on an extreme pull are conjecture. In other words, its possible that there is truth there, BUT there isn't anything in the literature that I can see at this time that supports the cause of failure.

Wally

[hytenor]

I did a little bit of Googling on this, what I gathered was that synthetic line can "look" fine but be fatigued by extended use.



that's why I figure my line is about as strong as regular 5/16" cable...or around 9800# ;)
exposure to the elements, dirt getting into the fibers, age, etc will all cause the break strength to drop.

[Topper]

I did a little bit of Googling on this, what I gathered was that synthetic line can "look" fine but be fatigued by extended use.

Wally

The same is true for wire rope and chain.

[gsmsnuffy]

I have heard of synthetic line cutting itself when under a near max load for a given rope.

My father, whom spent decades building and rigging radio and TV towers using all kinds of cable and synethic ropes has seen that occur on more than one occassion. I have not seen it however in an automotive application, but that could be not enough time behind a winch or just lucky?

Also, I read somewhere, probably on Pirate, about how planetary geared winches produce more heat than spur gear winches, but that doesn't explain why the line was more melted on the end towards the motor? I dunno? :dunno:

I did go with an aluminum fairlead this go around, based on the last inspection of my composite fairlead.

Wally

http://www.bb4wa.com/articles/amsteel2.htm
http://www.bb4wa.com/articles/amsteel2.htm

A couple a para's:

In some other testing I did a while back, my buddy Gus, Ed Fortson (former 4WD writer) and I stretched out both 5/16” and 3/8” rope in wire and Amsteel Blue under tension we measured to be 7500 lbs and CUT the ropes. We anchored to a very large Cottonwood tree and had two Range Rovers and a K5 Blazer all locked front and rear to get that much tension. All the ropes were 125 feet when we started. I cut the end that was tied off at the rear bumper and watched what happened and filmed it with a digital movie camera.
The wire went past the tree anchor with such force that it covered over 100 feet past the tree. We then used various blankets, coats and winch protection devices and found out that the blankets worked the best. We had to wrap the sleeves of a heavy coat around the wire for the coat to stay with the wire; otherwise the coat did the “Wiley Coyote” thing and stayed in the air while the wire went past the tree. We tried straps and chain all to no avail! The “Winch Weight” worked with sand in the pockets and the sleeves wrapped around the wire really well though.
The Amsteel Blue went about halfway to the tree and just fell on the ground and slowly at that. Not nearly the speed of the wire. With a blanket, the Amsteel Blue just immediately fell. This is called “retractive index,” which means the amount of stored energy in the rope under stretch and how fast it recoils under release.
So, I am going out to the shop now to put the Amsteel Blue back on the winch and probably get several more years of good use from it.
Just thought you would like to know how my winch ropes hold up to the use I give them. The pictures tell the story better than I can. See you on the trail.

©Bill Burke's 4-Wheeling America LLC

:2cents:

[TacoDell]

just remember the longer the line you have on the spool the weaker your winch becomes unless you are using a snatch block.




The opposite actually.

The fewer layers on the drum, the greater the winching power.


I think bear knows that... and just worded that wrong...

I changed the word "off" to "on" and then it makes sense...

[Bear]

I think bear knows that... and just worded that wrong...

I changed the word "off" to "on" and then it makes sense...

Bingo Dell, Thanks for the correction as well as to Topper for the catch!

I'll go back and correct my typo.

[WallyP226]

I have 3/8s" Amsteel Blue on one winch, and can't bring myself to put steel cable back on the other, so it will sit till I can afford some 5/16". My rationale is safety, ease of use and its light weight.

My own observation is that my synthetic line melted my highdensity, molecular weight composite fairlead on a side pull. While I realize there are two different kinds of plastics involved, how come there is that much friction/ heat to cause it to melt? If it can occur to the fairlead, what prevents it from cutting itself when one part is under tension and the other part isn't? What happends when the line is crossed on itself? Can it do the same thing? Is the strength of the line in the direction of the fibers or is it the same accross the fiber weave? These are questions that are related to the physics and physical properties of amsteel blue that I don't have answers to but I am certainly curious.

I am not poo pooing synthetic line at all but what I do want to do is know why things happen, if its going to happen to me, and what I can do to reduce or prevent a potential problem. Safety is important to me. Murphy's Law is ever present.

LOL maybe I am odd in that way?

[Bear]

I have had the same questions as I have also melted my fairlead with a "side pull" as well.

your post is a mirror image of some of my thoughts as well. so if anyone has some insight. it would be great! ( I just wish I was the one with the insight)

[mobil1syn]

www.rockstomper.com

[Topper]

Bingo Dell, Thanks for the correction as well as to Topper for the catch!

I'll go back and correct my typo.

I figured it was a typo of sorts.

[taalow]

Wooow, so many great people with great information.

[WallyP226]

I found an interesting deal. I got a 3/8" x 94' synthetic winch rope for $143! :eek: I visit an open freight place 1-2 times a week, they had one, I didn't waste a second once I saw it, for that price.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h224/WallyP226/007.jpg

It is sold by Smittybilt, and it is made out of Dyneema Sk75, which is essentially the industry standard.

http://www.smittybilt.com/docs/new_products/SB_22.pdf

Real Amsteel Blue is made from Dyneema SK75 and coated by Samson rope company

http://www.samsonrope.com/index.cfm?rope=192

As well as the company called "Amsteel Blue"

http://www.amsteelblue.com/cpage.cfm?cpid=448

Which in turn is made by Dyneema, the company that makes the rope.

http://www.dsm.com/en_US/html/hpf/dyneema_yarn.htm

Masterpull, Viking, Amsteel Blue, alll say they are made out of the same stuff.

http://www.masterpull.com/cpage.cfm?cpid=423

http://www.amsteelblue.com/cpage.cfm?cpid=448

http://www.winchline.com/winchline.htm

I thought that was interesting. The coatings can be different, which changes the properties a little, the types of hardware ie thimble, hook, line protectors are different but the fibre used appears to be the same.

Wally

[NEV2DEP]

I have had the same questions as I have also melted my fairlead with a "side pull" as well.

your post is a mirror image of some of my thoughts as well. so if anyone has some insight. it would be great! ( I just wish I was the one with the insight)

Are the Delrin rollers what you guys melted?

[WallyP226]

Are the Delrin rollers what you guys melted?

In short, no. I had a one piece high density plastic composite fair lead.

The link is the exact model that I melted.

http://www.fourtreks.com/composite_fairlead.html

Wally

[NEV2DEP]

In short, no. I had a one piece high density plastic composite fair lead.

The link is the exact model that I melted.

http://www.fourtreks.com/composite_fairlead.html

Wally

Ok good to hear I just bought the Delrin rollers from winchline.com you guys had me worried for a second.

[WallyP226]

I think that the rollers would be a decent way to go. Price wise its in the same ball park, allows one to use their existing fairlead.

Wally

[hytenor]

I like the aluminum ones