: gears, lockers, limited slip, etc...???


wjfawb0
07-10-2005, 12:18 AM
My truck is an 02 regular cab 4x4 2.7L 5 speed (daily driver). I bought it used a few days ago with 22,313 miles on it. I got my wife in her '00 Celica to give me speed readings over cell phones going down the highway to figure out that when my speedo reads 70mph I'm doing approximately 75mph. The wheels and tires on the truck are P265/70-16 115S on aluminum. The tires are worn considerably further than I would think they should be for the mileage so I am starting to think the previous owner put on the 16s after buying the truck. The incorrect speedometer readings also seem to support this theory(and the truck seems weak compared to other Taco 2.7s with stock wheel/tire combos). I want to keep running ~31" tires, so I suppose I need to drop my gear ratio to 4.10 or 4.56. My door jam says B06A or 8" 3.91 open diff. If I am going to change out my gears I want to look at lockers and limited slip diffs while I'm at it. So, here comes the questions...

From what I have read in the last few days, with my 02 model and its live hub front drivetrain I need to run an electronic locker up front and not an autolocker. I don't want to do a manual hub swab up front mainly because this is a daily driver. For the rear would a limited slip diff. suffice for daily driver duty, or should I go ahead and put a locker in there too so that I can lock both or one of them up when appropriate?

I don't plan on rock crawling or anything, but I would like to have the ability to get out of sticky situations easier by being able to spin all my wheels. :D

I have been searching for gear and diff. information to see what path I should take, and so far I have had no luck trying to find precisely what I am looking for information-wise. Any thought or direction to tech articles or threads that might be helpful would be appreciated. Thanks,
-Jason

hytenor
07-10-2005, 03:11 AM
My truck is an 02 regular cab 4x4 2.7L 5 speed (daily driver). I bought it used a few days ago with 22,313 miles on it. I got my wife in her '00 Celica to give me speed readings over cell phones going down the highway to figure out that when my speedo reads 70mph I'm doing approximately 75mph. The wheels and tires on the truck are P265/70-16 115S on aluminum. The tires are worn considerably further than I would think they should be for the mileage so I am starting to think the previous owner put on the 16s after buying the truck. The incorrect speedometer readings also seem to support this theory(and the truck seems weak compared to other Taco 2.7s with stock wheel/tire combos). I want to keep running ~31" tires, so I suppose I need to drop my gear ratio to 4.10 or 4.56. My door jam says B06A or 8" 3.91 open diff. If I am going to change out my gears I want to look at lockers and limited slip diffs while I'm at it. So, here comes the questions...

From what I have read in the last few days, with my 02 model and its live hub front drivetrain I need to run an electronic locker up front and not an autolocker. I don't want to do a manual hub swab up front mainly because this is a daily driver. For the rear would a limited slip diff. suffice for daily driver duty, or should I go ahead and put a locker in there too so that I can lock both or one of them up when appropriate?

I don't plan on rock crawling or anything, but I would like to have the ability to get out of sticky situations easier by being able to spin all my wheels. :D

I have been searching for gear and diff. information to see what path I should take, and so far I have had no luck trying to find precisely what I am looking for information-wise. Any thought or direction to tech articles or threads that might be helpful would be appreciated. Thanks,
-Jason

with tires that are well worn the speedo will be off since the actual tire diameter is quite a bit less than when new ;)

3.91s on an '02/5sp, very interesting. You are the first one I've seen post with a newer than '00 that didn't have 4.30s with that combo. It seems that the reg cabs got the short stick on this one. :( more trivia to add to my collection...

for what you describe I would go with the rear ARB (RD-89) and a Truetrac up front (LSD, pt #911A342). I ran this combo for about 2yrs and it was great for everything but the wilder rock crawling (why I swapped out to the front ARB).
Handling in snow, mud, etc was just as good as me current ARB.

If you don't plan on going larger than 31s or 32s then stick with 4.30 gears. The problem, however, is that this ratio is a dealer only item; no aftermarket mfgs have them. 4.56s will be fine with 32" tires however but you'll need a 2" lift.

So, for a DD that occasionally wheels I'd recommend the OME complete suspension kit with 881 coils (just under $1k + install) for 100% better ride/handling and they will settle out to around 2" of lift on your truck. Then add the gears/locker/LSD and some 32s and rock sliders and you'll be ready to tackle most trails with relative ease.

this won't be cheap but you'll be very pleased with it.

wjfawb0
07-10-2005, 07:20 AM
Thanks for the reply. With the worn tires, wouldn't my speedo read higher than my actual speed? Each revolution of the tire with a smaller diameter tire would net me a slower forward speed than what the truck is calibrated for.
I appreciate the info. I read this forum a good bit before I bought the truck and I really expected it to have 4.10s or 4.30s instead of 3.91s. I guess if I really wanted to go with 4.30s, my first option would be to buy them used off some crazy wheeler here who moved on to bigger torqueier gears. :p I really don't want to lift the truck anymore than it is stock. It will honestly see dry pavement 97% of the time I drive it.

I think I am going to start off by eliminating the clutch fan and installing the flex-a-lite dual electric fans #210. If anybody else has any ideas about what diff's and gears I might run, please chime in. Since buying the truck, I don't believe my wife going to let me spend much money on it for several months. She said "Merry Christmas" to me when I brought it home. :o

hytenor
07-10-2005, 11:29 AM
Thanks for the reply. With the worn tires, wouldn't my speedo read higher than my actual speed? Each revolution of the tire with a smaller diameter tire would net me a slower forward speed than what the truck is calibrated for.
I appreciate the info. I read this forum a good bit before I bought the truck and I really expected it to have 4.10s or 4.30s instead of 3.91s. I guess if I really wanted to go with 4.30s, my first option would be to buy them used off some crazy wheeler here who moved on to bigger torqueier gears. :p I really don't want to lift the truck anymore than it is stock. It will honestly see dry pavement 97% of the time I drive it.

I think I am going to start off by eliminating the clutch fan and installing the flex-a-lite dual electric fans #210. If anybody else has any ideas about what diff's and gears I might run, please chime in. Since buying the truck, I don't believe my wife going to let me spend much money on it for several months. She said "Merry Christmas" to me when I brought it home. :o

duhh, oops :p right...it sounds like your speedo is just off from the factory...or they put the wrong speedo gear in there. either way, it almost sounds like your truck got gearing and a speedo gear for 235 size tires rather than the 265s...very interesting.

doing the math, you can get your speedo more accurate by dropping to the 235s (BFG AT 235/70/16s are 29.1"). this will also bump your performance up to where it should be. ...really screwy on Toyota's part, sheesh. you'll lose 1/2" of ground clearance too but gas mileage will improve a tad.

If you don't want more lift then just upgrade your OE shocks to Bilsteins aftermarket line or OE replacements...waaaaay better shocks. Contact Demello or Wheelers for these. Also, keep an eye out here for a set of non-trd v6 front coils for cheep. they will give you a little bit if lift but no more than an inch and give a firmer ride and less body roll especially with the new Bilsteins ;)

you can find 4.10s here for next to nothing but IMO it would not be worth the expense of regearing (labor and install kits) only to replace 3.91s with 4.10s.

since you can't spend much $, forget my last post, LOL, that will be major bucks modding :eek:

pburruel
07-10-2005, 07:46 PM
I have a 2004 reg cab 4x4 and the stock gears are 3.91 and my tires are 265 70 16.

wjfawb0
07-11-2005, 05:59 AM
I have a 2004 reg cab 4x4 and the stock gears are 3.91 and my tires are 265 70 16.

My door jamb sticker says that my truck came with 15" wheels and 225 0r 235 tires. I'll have to take a picture...

wjfawb0
07-11-2005, 06:13 AM
Wheels that are on it now:

http://sweb.uky.edu/~wjfawb0/2005_7_7_Taco/Taco_wheel.JPG


Door jam sticker:

http://sweb.uky.edu/~wjfawb0/2005_7_7_Taco/Taco_doorjam.JPG

hytenor
07-12-2005, 01:10 AM
I have a 2004 reg cab 4x4 and the stock gears are 3.91 and my tires are 265 70 16.

Once again Toyota dumps on the reg cab...dorks. I just can't figure out their convoluted reasoning on this. :mad:

88toy4x4
07-12-2005, 07:13 AM
Once again Toyota dumps on the reg cab...dorks. I just can't figure out their convoluted reasoning on this. :mad:

They didn't just dump on the regular cab. I think they dumped on most of all the 2.7 4cyl's. I mean who in their right mind would put 225/75/15's and 3.58 :xbarf: gears on a 4wd truck. :mad: I guess some people just "need" the 4wd to get over the speedbumps at the mall. Hang on, this is a big one! :rolleyes:

wjfawb0
07-12-2005, 09:05 AM
So, if I wanted to make the truck better equipped for driving in snow and some mud, but not really offroading over obstacles and such, what would be your alls suggestions for differential work? Limited slip rear, locker in rear? I am just afraid that I could get stuck in 8" of snow or something with my BFG Trail ATs and open differentials. Now that would suck.
I really need to understand the differences between 4L, 4H and 2H. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong:

2H = driving rear drive shaft
4H = driving rear and front driveshafts
4L = driving rear and front driveshafts at lower speed

Is the only advantage of 4L over 4H in low traction situations the lower gearing? How likely is it that I could get stuck in a snowy ditch this winter due to having open diffs?

zosimov21
07-12-2005, 09:46 AM
Also, keep an eye out here for a set of non-trd v6 front coils for cheep. they will give you a little bit if lift but no more than an inch and give a firmer ride and less body roll especially with the new Bilsteins ;)
:eek:

wjfawb0 I've got some 04 front coils non TRD if your needing some. I just pulled them off to replace with OME's :D

zosimov21
07-12-2005, 09:49 AM
So, if I wanted to make the truck better equipped for driving in snow and some mud, but not really offroading over obstacles and such, what would be your alls suggestions for differential work? Limited slip rear, locker in rear? I am just afraid that I could get stuck in 8" of snow or something with my BFG Trail ATs and open differentials. Now that would suck.
I really need to understand the differences between 4L, 4H and 2H. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong:

2H = driving rear drive shaft
4H = driving rear and front driveshafts
4L = driving rear and front driveshafts at lower speed

Is the only advantage of 4L over 4H in low traction situations the lower gearing? How likely is it that I could get stuck in a snowy ditch this winter due to having open diffs?

The 4L will give you much better engine torque. Go in the grass and put it in 4L and Slowly accelerate you will feel it pull with more power vs 4H. If your truck still has the manual it's all in there :)

TacoDell
07-12-2005, 11:54 AM
So, if I wanted to make the truck better equipped for driving in snow and some mud, but not really offroading over obstacles and such, what would be your alls suggestions for differential work? Limited slip rear, locker in rear? I am just afraid that I could get stuck in 8" of snow or something with my BFG Trail ATs and open differentials. Now that would suck.
I really need to understand the differences between 4L, 4H and 2H. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong:

2H = driving rear drive shaft
4H = driving rear and front driveshafts
4L = driving rear and front driveshafts at lower speed

Is the only advantage of 4L over 4H in low traction situations the lower gearing? How likely is it that I could get stuck in a snowy ditch this winter due to having open diffs?

Yes and Most likely... unless of course you stay outta the ditch!!! But even with a locker or LSD you could just bury yourself deeper if you don't know what your doing... But you won't know unless you try!!! You gotta test the abilities of your truck and learn more about what it can and cannot do... Just have a buddy standing buy with a recovery strap and you'll be fine... ;) I would recommend some good "extreme weather" rated tires for the snow though...

hytenor
07-12-2005, 01:40 PM
Wheels that are on it now:

Door jam sticker:



yep, and I bet the window sticker showed that they added a 'wheel/tire' pkg of the 265s as an option for several hundred bucks. What a stupid thing to do on Toyota's part, sheesh.

hytenor
07-12-2005, 01:41 PM
I have a 2004 reg cab 4x4 and the stock gears are 3.91 and my tires are 265 70 16.

does the door jam plate show 235s?
did the window sticker show your 265 tires as being a pricy option?

just currious.

hytenor
07-12-2005, 01:45 PM
They didn't just dump on the regular cab. I think they dumped on most of all the 2.7 4cyl's. I mean who in their right mind would put 225/75/15's and 3.58 :xbarf: gears on a 4wd truck. :mad: I guess some people just "need" the 4wd to get over the speedbumps at the mall. Hang on, this is a big one! :rolleyes:

it's starting to look like they just added the optional tires and forgot about the fact that the truck was geared for the smaller meats as well as having a speedo gear that was for that same smaller tire size. I wonder how many have noticed just how far their speedo is off and complained to the dealer. ...and then, what the dealer did to "fix" the problem, hmmm.

wjfawb0
07-12-2005, 08:21 PM
My wife rode beside me on the interstate the other day and her car indicated 75mph when mine was indicating 70mph. About a 7% difference. That means my truck probably has about 1400 more miles on it than the odometer indicates (~22,500). It'll of course screw my gas mileage calculations based on the odometer too. Fudge.

I think I'll go with what hytenor recommended when money permits:

"for what you describe I would go with the rear ARB (RD-89) and a Truetrac up front (LSD, pt #911A342). I ran this combo for about 2yrs and it was great for everything but the wilder rock crawling (why I swapped out to the front ARB).
Handling in snow, mud, etc was just as good as me current ARB."

Thanks for all the info everybody.

-Jason

hytenor
07-12-2005, 10:45 PM
My wife rode beside me on the interstate the other day and her car indicated 75mph when mine was indicating 70mph. About a 7% difference. That means my truck probably has about 1400 more miles on it than the odometer indicates (~22,500). It'll of course screw my gas mileage calculations based on the odometer too. Fudge.

I think I'll go with what hytenor recommended when money permits:

"for what you describe I would go with the rear ARB (RD-89) and a Truetrac up front (LSD, pt #911A342). I ran this combo for about 2yrs and it was great for everything but the wilder rock crawling (why I swapped out to the front ARB).
Handling in snow, mud, etc was just as good as me current ARB."

Thanks for all the info everybody.

-Jason

find out what gear you have now. If it's more than a 30t you can swap gears for around $20 and at least get your speedo/odo back to normal.
http://www.norcalttora.com/~chris/misc/speedo%20drive%20gear/
takes about 5 minutes to figure out. the tooth count is stamped on the plastic gear. If you have a 28, however, you're screwed since that's the lowest count they have and you'll need one with 2 fewer teeth.

wjfawb0
07-13-2005, 08:17 AM
Thanks again hytenor. I'll see if I can't look at it this weekend. Where should I look to buy a new gear if I have more than than 28 teeth? Toyota?

Also, where would you recommend picking up an ARB locker for the rear and Truetrac for the front?

hytenor
07-13-2005, 11:40 AM
Thanks again hytenor. I'll see if I can't look at it this weekend. Where should I look to buy a new gear if I have more than than 28 teeth? Toyota?

Also, where would you recommend picking up an ARB locker for the rear and Truetrac for the front?

trdparts4u.com for the gear, pm me for the part #s

PORC for the lockers/gears, install kits, etc. check the sponsor's section.
be prepared for sticker shock on the ARB ;)

wjfawb0
07-13-2005, 02:59 PM
Thanks again. I am going to consult with my friend who builds 1000HP diesel pulling trucks and turbo setups for diesels tonight and pick his brain. He uses ARB lockers and said he had experience with LSD and locker installs that might help me make my decision. He's a heck of a tig welder and says he can fab rock sliders too. :) I'll update this thread once I do something to the truck.
:welder:

hytenor
07-13-2005, 06:17 PM
Thanks again. I am going to consult with my friend who builds 1000HP diesel pulling trucks and turbo setups for diesels tonight and pick his brain. He uses ARB lockers and said he had experience with LSD and locker installs that might help me make my decision. He's a heck of a tig welder and says he can fab rock sliders too. :) I'll update this thread once I do something to the truck.
:welder:

some slider sketches:
My and Dick Foster's designs.
http://www.norcalttora.com/~chris/misc/slider%20sketches/slider%20sketches/

he has bling-bling stainless and mine are the cheapie sch-40 pipe type ;)
tube is better than pipe for sliders though.