I broke the cruiser.... acts like fuel or ign. cut-out at 2100rpm

[colsoncj]

Ok, so I washed the engine... and now i have a huge problem. when you rev it up it acts like it hits a fuel or ignition cut-out at around 2100 to 2500. it will fall back down and then rev back up. (like a cut-out or rev limiter).

I have checked or replaced:
Distributor cap
Distributor rotor
plug wires
air intake hose
all connection
vacuum hoses

I'm also not getting any CEL to help diagnose.... I'm at a complete loss on this....

My next step is to get my hands on an induction timing light to see if its killing the spark, or if it may be fuel...

Any help would be appreciated... I'll be posting a video of the symptoms on youtube shortly, and I'll link it up.

[colsoncj]

ok.. well in the course of taping the videos, it finally went above 2100RPMs, but it stumbles at that point, then either falls or revs up... the first video shows what it was doing, the second one shows its new state of not working...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESA0oMslx4M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aboe6I3xPWY

Now I'm leaning towards a bad TPS due to weird throttle response, but I'm still not getting a CEL... and its improving... maybe it got water in it?

[colsoncj]

Just went out and tried it again... its getting better, and the idle is starting to return to normal after it screws up... maybe it just needs to be driven... i'm betting it got water in something, and i'm thinking the TPS....

[wanabecruisen]

Take a nice slow drive (bring your cell phone just in case) and get the motor up to temp for a while. Should clear it up. You might want to pull the EFI fuse for a few seconds at that point to reset the fuel system as well. Good luck!

[colsoncj]

I already ran it at idle for about 45 minutes a couple weeks ago and that didnt fix it... but whatever may have got wet could have had too much water...

I'm plannin on driving it to work and around town tomorrow to see if it clears up.

I am still very curious what got wet and caused this...

[colsoncj]

good news and bad news...

it fixed itself.

[OldTruck]

Damn, the worst kinda' problem . . . intermittent !!
Second only to un-reproducible . . . I wouldn't suggest another engine washing just to reproduce the problem.
Question? Have you ever had this happen previously? rainy weather, creek crossing?
If it ain't happened in a heavy rain situation, I'd just forgo the engine washing and hope for the best.
throttle position sensor, could be

[colsoncj]

never washed the engine before... wont wash it again.

never happened before. im thinking about picking up a spare TPS just in case.

[colsoncj]

well.. the problem apparent did NOT fix itself as its now manifested itself....

I cant drive the thing over about 2K....

The OD light (overdrive) is now blinking at me. I have horrible throttle response... which has progressed from a previous which was just a dead spot between no throttle and minimal throttle...

from doing a bit of searching i believe i'm now actually throwing a code, but im unsure if its the root problem or a symptom of the problem...

any help appreciated... i'm going to do some more searching tomorrow and see if im actually throwing a code and if so, what it is.... thankfully the cruiser did manage to make it back 20 minutes and get me home!

[06silverback]

you better get that bitch fixed before august comes!!!!!!!!

[colsoncj]

ya... thats what im thinking, but its not lookin good.

[colsoncj]

next question, can a throttle position sensor affect transmission operation?

I'm still thinking I might have a bad TPS which now has somehow got my overdrive O/D light flashing throwing a trans code... I'm getting ready to go pull the code, so I should know what it is shortly, and will post up.

[colsoncj]

Codes:

Transmission was code 88, severed ECM and TCM or short circuit

Engine code 24, Intake Air Temp Sensor Signal (part of the AFM) short circuit or open for 0.5 sec or more

Engine code 31, Volume Air Flow Meter (AFM) Signal; When idle contacts are closed and the engine speed is 1,500 RPM or less there is an open circuit in the VC and VS signal or a short circuit between VS and E2. (E2 is sensor ground, VS is a connection between the ECM and part of the AFM, and VCC i believe connects the AFM to the TPS via the ECM).

On a side note the TCM does rely on signals from the TPS per the FSM operation description. If the IDL (Idle) points of the TPS close (TPS sees the throttle closed) it signals the TCM to unlock the the lock-up system, however im not sure it recieves the signal in conjunction with the ECM or if the ECM provides it... its looks like its in conjunction, which would me that a bad TPS could signal a bad ECM to TCM connection... but it looks like the signal has 2 ways to reach the TCM, from the VA term of the ECM and from a shared IDL connection from the TPS to the ECM and TCM.

I've already cleared the codes, and I'm going to take it for a spin to see what new codes come up. As it stands right now, I feel fairly confident that its one of these things, listed in what I think is most probable at this point:

1. TPS (Throttle Position Sensor)
2. TPS wiring
3. AFM (Volume Air Flow Meter)
4. AFM wiring
5. ECM

[colsoncj]

Took it for a test drive... just barely got home, again. not cool.

Current symptoms:
First part of the drive had NO issues whatsoever.

Second part of the drive:
While driving it started the whole not wanting to run thing and then threw a tranny code 88 again. got back and checked, no engine codes.

While driving it will just stall, stumble down regardless of throttle input and the catch itself. it barely ran on the way back becuase of this. it would stall, then catch itself, rev back up so i could keep moving, then stall again.

When I got it back to the house its back to its original issue of reving to approx 2200, then stalling, catching itself around 1800 rpms, then repeat. Same thing that was shown in the first youtube video.

I'm still fairly confident i have a throttle position sensor issue of some kind, and the tranny code is just a secondary symptom. In talkin with another very skilled toyota mechanic he agrees with my diagnosis. He had a similar issue where a motor got washed and the throttle position sensor internal spring which helps pull the sensor back to home would bind up and it (the TPS/ECM) couldn't make sense of the throttle position. I'm going to do a quick test of the TPS and see what happens. If it comes back alright, I'm going to pull the whole throttle body off, re-check the sensor, remove, check springs, and lube, reinstall, check again, and reinstall the whole throttle body and see what happens. Hopefully something will become apparent.

[colsoncj]

checked out the tps and afm... both ohm'd out fine.

started it back up, still had the stall at around 2200rpm. shut it back off.

unplugged the tps sensor, and started back up. no issues except a CEL. no stall, hesitation, stumbling, anything... ran great.

Took it for a drive and besides the tranny not knowing when to shift, didnt have a single problem. got back and rev'd it up, no stall. shut it off, plugged the tps back in, started it back up, all the issues returned.

i'd say that means i have a bad tps... but i'm not quite sure how, given that it ohm'd out alright. must be something else going on either inside of it or with the wiring.

[79coyotefrg]

note to self* NEVER wash a toyota engine :eek:

besides a 22R

[06silverback]

sounds like youre narrowing it down anyways :)

[colsoncj]

note to self* NEVER wash a toyota engine :eek:

I could take a pressure washer to my 22RE in my 4Runner and not have a lick of problems....

[79coyotefrg]

I could take a pressure washer to my 22RE in my 4Runner and not have a lick of problems....

i edited my post :D

[colsoncj]

well, i'm 92% sure I've got it fixed. Put a new TPS on it, adjusted it, and reinstalled the throttle body.. so far about 30-40 miles and no issues... time will tell.