: A TTORA evolution story


Bear
07-13-2009, 09:52 AM
In 1999, I stumbled upon TTORA looking for aftermarket products for my recently aquired Tacoma. Soon afterwards I was "braving" the Texas forum and learning volumes about my truck and mechanics in general.

fast forward to 2004, my family and I moved from Texas to Indiana to find no active chapter of TTORA in the state. I immediately began the task of rebuilding the state chapter and as everyone knows became the first president of the second edition of the club.

IN the beginning it was slow moving. our first meeting had myself, and wife along with three "toyota guys" and one jeeper at the first meeting.

But that meeting was productive enough to get the ball rolling. at that meeting Brinner expressed his willingness to become the Vice President. For that I will be forever indebted to him for. Brinner has done so much for the Indiana chapter (mostly behind the scenes) which many will never fully understand. For all his service to the chapter a large thank you should go out to him.

Within two short years of the chapter becoming active again, we were asked to host the national take over, not a small task and a large accomplishment to be requested. But we pulled it off, and on top of that, with the national director who normally takes care of sponsorship and other important details, being unavailable. Again Brinner stepped up to the plate, jumped in feet first and was a major factor on why Take Over was successful.

So at this time, it is said with a heavy heart, But the announcement must be made, Brinner has requested me to search for a new Vice President of InTTORA. Brian is moving forward with his life and searching for employment outside the state.

I wish him all the best and truly consider him a good friend. He will be missed when he moves on.

Again, like I said he has done so much for the chapter, I can not begin to list everything he has done, been a part of or spear headed for the chapter.

So it was my task to find his replacement, but with Brian being so instrumental in the chapter to date, I relied upon his recommendation as heavily as I relied on myself for the decision of his replacement.

So it was decided that Mark, NWiTaco be the new Vice President of InTTORA. Mark has demonstrated similar traits as Brian regarding TTORA and his active ways, and dedication.

An apology should probably be made here, This transition has already been in effect fore the last couple of weeks, But everyone involved was waiting for me to make the announcement, which brings me to some other business at hand.

Most if not all know, I recently changed jobs. Before I was afforded the time to leave TTORA open on my computer desk top all day long. Now I am never on a computer except to do time sensitive correspondence or other job related task. I am on the road 3-5 days a week and recently even had my cell phone gernade on me while I was on the west coast, making for a very fun trip home (if you know what I mean)

I have always felt that the individual chapters of the nat. club were reflective of their leadership/officers. I always strived to make InTTORA one of the best, and can only hope I succeeded in some way. But I do not feel I am doing the chapter any justice now in being it's president as I am absent far too much and am afraid it is reflecting back in regards to the clubs members being les active.

Before Brian and I wanted to maintain activities and runs in order to keep everyone interested. Lately I have not been able to be involved much less work on my own truck to actually qualify to be a member (must have toyota off road capable vehicle ...)

So with a little fan fare as possible I also am making the announcement that I have stepped down as the InTTORA president effective immediately.

This makes Mark's tenor as Vice President one of the shortest in history of TTORA as he has been catapulted into the role of President. I will let him announce his plans for his Vice President but I have already offered all my assistence I can provide to him in helping make his transition as smooth as possible.

Thank each and everyone for all the support and help you have given me. and I hope I have served the chapter in an acceptable manor. I was originally going to completely "fade off into the sunset" but realized that I would never be able to do that after nine years with the club so I will be around when I can. Who knows what the future will bring, maybe in the future I will be able to be more active as I hope, but for now, the best for everyone is for me to step aside, and help Mark continue to grow and make InTTORA into one of the strongest and best chapters of the club.

Thank you for everything.

Berry

Bear
07-13-2009, 10:06 AM
As my last "lame Duck" request, I would like everyone to be understanding and patient while Mark settles into the new role. there is much to be done and it can be overwhelming. So our support and helpfulness will go a long way.

Also the tee shirts are being addressed, and I will have them taken care of shortly as the last act so to speak. It would not be fair to Mark to throw him into the middle of an on-going project.

natetru
07-13-2009, 10:29 AM
thanks for everything Bear, especially mediating btween myself and adam at 4x!!!!! good luck, and dont fade to far away!

Bear
07-13-2009, 10:31 AM
that was not a problem, just part of the job so to speak. and don't worry about the shirts, although I am moving slow, due to my circumstances, they will be taken care of.

natetru
07-13-2009, 10:36 AM
i have no doubts in your word bear

Rebelrunner
07-13-2009, 10:58 AM
I want to wish you luck in your endevours for both of you and hope we all can still run sometime.

Fuod
07-13-2009, 11:56 AM
Its been a great run with you Bear, you did an excellent job! I think Nwi is a good replacement, and is probably the most active member we have anyway. I'm glad you're new job is working well for you, must be nice to be in a new city everyday. Good luck to you bud!

Also Brinner, good luck to you too! I hope you finish your build and make at least one run with us before you leave. Otherwise all those posts in your thread were for not. You and Bear did make a good team!

Now who will I make "Texas" jokes about? ;)

Bear
07-13-2009, 01:53 PM
Now who will I make "Texas" jokes about? ;)
Well take a mirror and place it behind you, bend over and poke all the fun at the reflection you want! :lmao:

I ain't going anywhere yet, just not as active as I need to be to provide the quality care I insist I be able to devote.

jason6746
07-13-2009, 02:05 PM
thanks for everything bear you did a great job starting inttora back up and making it a functioning club. i think you guys picked a good leader to take your place.

NwiTACO
07-13-2009, 02:08 PM
Best of wishes to both Brinner and Bear! We'll still expect you to make a few runs a year...both of you...aghem...brinner...no matter where he moves too... :D

natetru
07-13-2009, 02:09 PM
yea our new pres should work out fine........can our motto be "Make it or Break it!" ?

jason6746
07-13-2009, 02:31 PM
we will definatly make some more runs where ever that may be.

95toyotan
07-13-2009, 06:25 PM
Well SHIT!, this SUCKS!!!


Damn Bear, you keep havin to make some tough decisions hu buddy!

Well guys I hate to hear it, We couldn't of asked for a better couple of guys to lead our crew! Thank you for everything you have done, it is greatly appreciated!

Brinner, good luck to ya where ever you end up and I hope you keep us posted with the build of that monster!

Bear, I know you'll be around as much as you can like the rest of us, so I'll be seein ya!



And congradulations Mark, I'm sure you'll be able to keep the ball rollin!



:driving: .... :saw: .... :welder: .... :xbeer2: .... :boobies: .... and repeat ....

bstoocool
07-14-2009, 06:33 AM
Good luck in all that you both do, and thanks for all that you have done with InTTORA.

NwiTACO
07-14-2009, 07:35 AM
I think Nwi is a good replacement, and is probably the most active member we have anyway.

i think you guys picked a good leader to take your place.

yea our new pres should work out fine........can our motto be "Make it or Break it!" ?

And congradulations Mark, I'm sure you'll be able to keep the ball rollin!

Thanks for all the kind words! I will do my best and have a few things in store for the Chapter! Stay tuned for more information! :kewl:

natetru
07-14-2009, 02:58 PM
Thanks for all the kind words! I will do my best and have a few things in store for the Chapter! Stay tuned for more information! :kewl:

what channel?

gtrotter
07-14-2009, 03:28 PM
what channel?

17...

Anyways, thanks to both Bear and Brinner for all the hard work and dedication to the club. Thanks to Mark for stepping up. I know you will be a great leader. Now just don't go S/Cing your taco and getting it sidelined too.

redbirdrunner
07-14-2009, 07:58 PM
I really hate to hear both of you are leaving but I wish you both luck. Just wish I had gotten to see either of your trucks on the trails. Mark let me know if we are still planning on adopting trail 2 at redbird so I can pass it along to the board.

natetru
07-14-2009, 08:03 PM
hey mark...you are leaving 2mro for michigan arent you? were you going to announce your InTTORA tattoo on your left butt cheek? or are you gonna keep us waiting

NwiTACO
07-15-2009, 07:20 AM
17...

Anyways, thanks to both Bear and Brinner for all the hard work and dedication to the club. Thanks to Mark for stepping up. I know you will be a great leader. Now just don't go S/Cing your taco and getting it sidelined too.

Not til after the SAS...:D

I really hate to hear both of you are leaving but I wish you both luck. Just wish I had gotten to see either of your trucks on the trails. Mark let me know if we are still planning on adopting trail 2 at redbird so I can pass it along to the board.

Yes, I would still like to adopt trail 2. Do you have the paperwork or does Barry? I can proceed on getting that completed ASAP.

hey mark...you are leaving 2mro for michigan arent you? were you going to announce your InTTORA tattoo on your left butt cheek? or are you gonna keep us waiting

Yep, leaving right after work to test these out:

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/nwitaco/S7300246.jpg

Now I just gotta get that suspension to bottom out...hmmm...

jason6746
07-15-2009, 09:37 AM
you must have got your a arm off eh?

NwiTACO
07-15-2009, 09:40 AM
Yeah, I got the front bolt out, disconnected the shock and the lower bj, then stood on the lca and jumped til I forced it past the rubber stops on the bushing so i was able to slide the shock up and in. I'm still gonna get those sometime soon, I gotta fix that or it's gonna start to fester...

natetru
09-10-2009, 04:25 PM
i dont believe in evolution tho...so where are we? how did we get here? lol

Fuod
09-10-2009, 07:53 PM
It seems to me with toy trucks (I'm including pre-tacos) there is both an evolution and a de-evolution.

The comfort, electronics, ride, power and rust resistance for example has increased enourmously, but the durability, longevity and off-road stamina has decreased quite a bit. That doesn't mean I'm bashing the latest generation, hell I'm jealous of you fookers. But the older trucks are usually the desirable ones.

Personally I'm happy with my '04, I'm kind of in the middle of the evolutionary change. Kinda like a caveman, not as tough as an ape but can woop mans ass with a stick!

LOL... The opinions expressed above do not necessarily reflect those of the author... :D

DN1911
09-27-2009, 05:51 PM
I think i may have just teared up a little.......




















































ok so maybe not:rofl:, but it has been good working with you Bear. i know i have come and gone a coule of times but he has always been fighting for this club to keep going. Hopefully the wife will relax about our 4Runner a little and we will be able to join you all on the trail again soon................

gtrotter
09-27-2009, 05:58 PM
Soooo...did you ever decide on a vp Mark? My vote goes towards Nate if that counts for anything? lol

NwiTACO
09-28-2009, 06:27 AM
Soooo...did you ever decide on a vp Mark? My vote goes towards Nate if that counts for anything? lol

There are a few in mind, and he is one of them. May have a mock election in the future, or a re-structuring of positions may happen as well. I am throwing some things around lately...

NwiTACO
10-17-2011, 07:10 AM
Well I feel that it is once again time to dive into InTTORA history...

After recieving the presidency from Bear back in 2009 we have seen many changes across our state. We have had many members fade, and many new members join. We have still had our solid base of members, but with each new sunset our lives change yet again. It seems just when interest would start to grow again, gas prices had another plan for us all.

Since becoming president, I have also dealt with many changes life has thrown my way. I have gotten married (woot woot) and relocated to the most southern portions of the state, moved back and been in two homes as well. And it seems that will not be the end either. Since moving back up north and being closer to family, we are now talking about the possibility of starting a family as well.

I have not had the time to dedicate to organization of club activities as I would have liked through all these changes. I have had many opportunitys to wheel and have wheeled countless times with most of our members across the state (which has been helped by work-related travel :D), however lacked the organization, they were mostly me tagging along with other groups or last minute runs. This is where my assion now lies, just plain old wheeling. Whether its a Ford, Chebby, Sammi or Toy, I just like to get out and do it, not as much of the internet side of things anymore.

It is for these reasons that I wish to resign as InTTORA president and return this honor to BEAR. As many of you know Bear got this chapter started and it was a very tough thing for him to give up when he did, and it is just as tough for me now. Bear and I have had several discussions around this and we both agree this is the best for the future of our chapter.

Bear is a great organizer and pushes the family aspect of this sport, which is what we need, and why this Chapter was founded. Stay tuned for more club changes as well.

But dont get too worried...I will still be around just plenty. I will still be active in InTTORA and will keep you all informed of my adventures in wheeling near and abroad. Please help by staying as involved as ever and lets hit some trails!

Thanks for the good run guys....Mark.

Bear
10-17-2011, 11:24 AM
Mark jumped into the chapter "with both feet" so to speak. I still vividly remember the first day I met him. Full of energy (as it soon became appearnt was his way of doing everything) he sped up to jeep crasher & I as we were unloading @ Harlan. A few words of greeting were exchanged and off he went to hit the trails. And since it has been hard for many to keep up with him.lol there is a reason I dubbed his taco "rockstar"

We should all appreciate his efforts for trying to keep the wheels rolling on our chapter. He has had a lot on his plate during his tenior. And if anyone doubts it needs to subscribe to indian proverb "walk a mile in your neighbors moccosines before speaking negatively about him". So here is my "thank you" to Mark.

In the next few months the club will hopefully go through additional postive transitions. I encourage everyone to participate in them as much as you individually can afford.

With this change fully developes, some old policies will be attempted to be re-implented and hopefully with suggestions from everyone, we'll move forward with new ideas.

At this time I want to announce that Mark will be still be an important member I want to encourage him to remain active, although at the sametime we should also understand he has a personal life as well.

As everyone thatt has been around from the early days knows Brinner was our v.p and was extremely important in that role. Since Brinner is obviously not available to resume that role. I have requested an exisiting and I feel equally respected member to serve as the current and future v.p.

I am happy to report that he has accepted the invitation. Although he originally joined the chapter as an "honorary member" he has seen the light and is currently in the middle of a toyota build. He is a solid fabricator and always makes himself available to helping others. So without any further fanfair Jeep Crasher is our new vice president.

Since Dave is no longer considered the honorary member he is eligible. In addition we will extend an invitation to "jeep crasher sr." To join as the one honary member of our chapter.

So please welcome our new v.p and encourage our honary member to join us as we would any toyota owner.

And let's hit the trails! I hope to see everyone at red bird next weekend, which by the way will be the site of our next official meeting (sorry about the late notice)

natetru
10-17-2011, 06:53 PM
what no vote?

gtrotter
10-17-2011, 10:14 PM
what no vote?

x2

tacoma_2002
10-17-2011, 11:53 PM
Thats whats beautiful about democracy....executive decisions :D.

Tell Dave to get his butt in gear on his project and quit playing with his train sets!

natetru
10-18-2011, 07:31 AM
also why people decide to go their own way..... imo a decision like that should not have been made for the club.....or is it really a club? idk

redbirdrunner
10-18-2011, 10:33 AM
I am going to have to agree with Nate. Its entirely possible that things would be the same but the club should have been given the option to nominate and vote for officers. Just my opinion guys

natetru
10-18-2011, 10:40 AM
i totally agree.....i probly work way to much to handle the logistics of being club pres....but i do believe there are people who care enuf and can motivate people enuf to hold those 2 offices...my vote is that there should be a vote

NwiTACO
10-18-2011, 12:07 PM
I understand. But are you talking about the naming of Bear to pres. or the impromptu naming of a VP as well? It doesnt matter to me vote or no vote, I was merely resigning the position and there had to be a successor and I never named a VP so I kinda figured...

If you're asking me I think there should have been a vote for VP though. I think that there are alot of people who have been very active and would've been suited that role as well.

If the concensus is a vote then maybe we should have one. I'll let Bear chime in here since the one thing I do know is I am not in charge and thats ok with me right now.

redbirdrunner
10-18-2011, 12:32 PM
Any organization I have been involved with has an annual meeting to nominate and vote for officers. If an office is vacated then word should be sent out and anyone should be allowed to be nominated. If an official meeting is unrealistic then it could be done on the forum... Don't take this as if I disagree with either appointed official I just think it should be done with the blessing of the group.

EVILTacoSupreme
10-18-2011, 12:53 PM
x2

x3

Bear
10-19-2011, 12:59 AM
I will address the "question of a vote" tomorrow evening(Wednesday) as it is far too late to give an intellegent response. I do not want any misconceptions implied or otherwise.

I will say though that there has already been much work and activity done behind the "curtain" we all call InTTORA. and hopefully I will have equally as much to report on during our first meeting at red bird. I again encourage any and all members to attend if at all possible. But for those who can't I will attempt to keep meeting notes and post them afterwards (but no promises ;) )

natetru
10-19-2011, 09:12 AM
mayb at the meeting u ask for nominations...then open a poll for a week to decide who takes the office and the duties....until then you remain interim pres...IMO

95toyotan
10-19-2011, 07:25 PM
Congratulations Bear and Jeep crasher!

Bear
10-19-2011, 10:43 PM
As promised, I aim to address the concerns unexpectedly brought up in this thread. But first let me say, for the last week and two business days I have been without a desktop or laptop computer. I have been attempting to keep up with everything (including email) via my phone. Although it was a means to serve a purpose, it was not as easy as it is now with a functional computer keyboard under my fingers.

I understand the concerns voiced within, and honestly in my earlier years of being a TTORA member I was actually standing on the other side of the fence, clamoring for a vote for a past chapter president of another state. At that time I was set straight By the founder of TTORA~ Toyminator, regarding the reasoning of TTORA not needing "elections" for officers (hopefully that lesson was given harsher to me then than I am able to explain here)

Before, let me explain the decision of selecting Jeep crasher as the current and future V.P. As with any InTTORA responsibility, I did not make the decision as a knee jerk or spontaneous, impulsive or similar manor. In fact, during the original organization of the chapter back in 2004, he was approached for the position in which he declined and therefore Brinner accepted the position.

I will not go into all the deciding qualities or characteristics I valued J.C for. But I am confident he is more than qualified. I will declare that his abilities in both the fabrication shop as well as being a trail "doctor" are very strong and an asset to have. His ability to remain nonbiased during conflict is also key as I know myself can get passionate over my opinions and actions as I also believe a group leader should be at times. His overall personality and level head compliment and offset others including myself.

But as I am getting side tracked, let me address the TTORA process in placing officers in duty.

In the beginning of the club, charter members were accepted, from there, each chapter was organized with the president first "applying" to the club and the regional directors would approve those officers. From there an evolution would develop (which is also the theme of this original thread...it was not by accident) But the evolution was intended for the current presidents by appointed by the resigning president, as the resigning president was more in "tune" with what the office had in store for the incoming officer as well as the leaving officer had a better understanding of their members as to who was best to serve in the same philosophies etc as the presidents before them. (This is a general overview) there are also more requirements involved and anyone interested can view them on the home pages of TTORA.

In turn the president also appointed the office of vice president. The reasons guiding the selection of vice president are basically the same and for a more specific reason. In 90-98% (my loose estimation) the vice president is the one to succeed the president. Generally the vice president is always the one next in line for the presidency. There are occasions in which both the president and vice president leave office at the same time, but in my experience of 11+ years those occasions normally are due to major turmoil within the chapter or as we experienced with my first departure where Brinner actually gave me his resignation ironically around the same time I made my own decision to leave the office. At this point the chapter is far from any example of such turmoil.

Furthermore, the vice president acts as the presidents "right hand" man. (Keep the minds out of the gutter) he acts as a sounding board much like the government’s president's cabinet acts. And if you ask me, Brinner actually served that capacity far above the expectations such as I expect Dave will do as well. I do not say that lightly as Dave has already proven himself to be personally.

I am not attempting to defend the decision of J.C's selection nor do I attempt to put him on the spot. But I feel it important to shine a glimmer of light upon my decision of his selection.

But back to the process of selecting a president. It was explained to me the reason for the president NOT needing to be elected. In a forum such as an internet community, elections serve nothing more than a popularity contest. When you have multiple candidates "running" and one candidate does not win the possibility of great conflict can develop (obviously) not having elections is intended to prevent such messes, and in the end the final decision is basically left in the hands of one person... the founder of the club. And in his own words (not mine) "All chapters of TTORA are completely volunteer based, so elections are not required". (I was told this personally; face to face with Shannon during the 03 national take over held in Gilmer Texas) So an election would be a mute point regardless and again if he was to overturn the result of an election, again a huge mess would be the result.

It is also pertinent to add, TTORA is and always will remain a "free club" if anyone is not happy with the decisions and processes of the founder, the regional directors or even the officers of the chapters, they are free to not participate in either the club/chapter events nor the internet community.

We do not wish for members to leave but there is nothing holding individuals to the club other than the efforts of its "officers" in keeping the chapters entertaining, informative and ACTIVE.

Personally in closing I have a few comments I would like to make. My first tenure, I concentrated on progressing and growing the chapter, and to keep everyone active both on the boards and on the trails. I feel we were successful to the degree we were asked to host a national take over in a relatively quick amount of time for such a young chapter.

There was no one else available or willing to take on the task of starting the chapter and I felt with my vast experience with my former chapter as an area leader, I was aware of what it would take to cultivate a successful chapter.

As with any human endevor, there were some mistakes made but also those mistakes learned from. We can, as mature adults, only attempt to limit future errors but admit to and correct any such mistakes in a quick fashion, which is also what I promise to do where ever possible.

Also there is no personal gain for its officers, there is no type of pay, no notoriety and actually the only time the officers are acknowledged is when a member has some type of issue. Again I am not taking offense for the call for a vote nor the questioning of any decisions. But I do find it interesting that when Mark was appointed and did not publically appoint a Vice President no one spoke up then. I further understand and have seen it happen each and every time (excluding my appointment of Mark) a call for a vote. And each and every time the chapter was kept in the dark to some degree. I am attempting to change that trend here. I am only in hopes that we can again develop consistent activity within our chapter and resume business as quickly and as painless as possible

again, let me re-emphasize the core philosophy of TTORA; it is and will remain a free club and if the members are unhappy with the activities and/or actions of the club they are free not to participate.

I appreciate everyone's presence both in the chapter, and on the boards as well as you reading this lengthy and probably wordy response. Thank you.

Also, I am in hopes that we can move forward and all work to better the chapter for everyone already associated as well as for future members. Oh and that we can all embrace Jeep Crasher as our new V.P... Lord knows he already "embraces" himself enough on his own. ;) :p

natetru
10-20-2011, 05:01 AM
right on.... i defintly exersice my free will to not be an official member of inttora. i do appreciate the information i am able to use through mainly the national board, and even more, some of the contacts i have made. i will continue to meet with some on various runs but have no intentions of being forced to follow anyone whether they are the right person for the job or not. thanks for clearing this up.......nathan

gtrotter
10-20-2011, 08:29 AM
Well hate to hear that Bear. Don't expect me to be at any of the runs, and only occasionally on here. Later folks.

redbirdrunner
10-20-2011, 09:13 AM
I just wanted to say thank you for addressing the questions put forth in a timely and informative manner. There was absolutely no malice intended toward you or dave and I appreciate the fact that there was none in your response. However I did question marks appointment without a vote at the time it happened although in searching old threads I couldn't find it. As I have stated previously I am not even sure a vote would change the outcome because as you stated the position is at best a headache with the only reward being the personal satisfaction of being involved in making inttora a success.

Momma Bear
10-20-2011, 09:55 AM
Amen! now can we all just get along and have some fun?
Sorry that some of you feel you have to go but as stated it's a free club come and go as you please. maybe we'll pass you on the trails.

natetru
10-20-2011, 10:45 AM
mayb so....

NwiTACO
10-20-2011, 06:37 PM
Well I feel that it is once again time to dive into InTTORA history...

After recieving the presidency from Bear back in 2009 we have seen many changes across our state. We have had many members fade, and many new members join. We have still had our solid base of members, but with each new sunset our lives change yet again. It seems just when interest would start to grow again, gas prices had another plan for us all.

Since becoming president, I have also dealt with many changes life has thrown my way. I have gotten married (woot woot) and relocated to the most southern portions of the state, moved back and been in two homes as well. And it seems that will not be the end either. Since moving back up north and being closer to family, we are now talking about the possibility of starting a family as well.

I have not had the time to dedicate to organization of club activities as I would have liked through all these changes. I have had many opportunitys to wheel and have wheeled countless times with most of our members across the state (which has been helped by work-related travel :D), however lacked the organization, they were mostly me tagging along with other groups or last minute runs. This is where my assion now lies, just plain old wheeling. Whether its a Ford, Chebby, Sammi or Toy, I just like to get out and do it, not as much of the internet side of things anymore.

It is for these reasons that I wish to resign as InTTORA president and return this honor to BEAR. As many of you know Bear got this chapter started and it was a very tough thing for him to give up when he did, and it is just as tough for me now. Bear and I have had several discussions around this and we both agree this is the best for the future of our chapter.

Bear is a great organizer and pushes the family aspect of this sport, which is what we need, and why this Chapter was founded. Stay tuned for more club changes as well.

But dont get too worried...I will still be around just plenty. I will still be active in InTTORA and will keep you all informed of my adventures in wheeling near and abroad. Please help by staying as involved as ever and lets hit some trails!

Thanks for the good run guys....Mark.

Okay...this thread has brought many things to light. So there is a little more to this story i would like to add.

Life has come in the way slightly as stated above. However until three weeks ago i had no intentions of resigning. Then i recieved a phone call from bear out of the blue.

He stated that he had recieved several email messages complaing about my poor leadership and lack of activity on the website. When i asked for copies of said emails, the excuses began and it was clear to me that they didnt exist.

What was clear was that bear wanted the role back and if he wanted it that bad i was gonna let him have it bc it obviously meant more to him than i.

So now i have no remaining secrets. Its all out there. Take it for what it is.

I really do think bear has his heart in this club and i hope the best for InTTORA as it is now led by two of its LEAST active members for the last 24 months.

As others have stated before this will mostlikey distance me from the club as well, however i have no ill feelings towards anyone. Hope to see you all on the trails since that is really what this club is about.

natetru
10-20-2011, 06:49 PM
If anyone had a complaint about how things were being run coulda discussed that openly. Mark, u are a great motiviator. Thank you for the great runs and good conversation. I hope u keep my number and in touch...mayb we can keep in touch though the other forum.

NwiTACO
10-20-2011, 08:27 PM
If anyone had a complaint about how things were being run coulda discussed that openly. Mark, u are a great motiviator. Thank you for the great runs and good conversation. I hope u keep my number and in touch...mayb we can keep in touch though the other forum.

Thanks Nate

EVILTacoSupreme
10-20-2011, 10:42 PM
Okay...this thread has brought many things to light. So there is a little more to this story i would like to add.

Life has come in the way slightly as stated above. However until three weeks ago i had no intentions of resigning. Then i recieved a phone call from bear out of the blue.

He stated that he had recieved several email messages complaing about my poor leadership and lack of activity on the website. When i asked for copies of said emails, the excuses began and it was clear to me that they didnt exist.

What was clear was that bear wanted the role back and if he wanted it that bad i was gonna let him have it bc it obviously meant more to him than i.

So now i have no remaining secrets. Its all out there. Take it for what it is.

I really do think bear has his heart in this club and i hope the best for InTTORA as it is now led by two of its LEAST active members for the last 24 months.

As others have stated before this will mostlikey distance me from the club as well, however i have no ill feelings towards anyone. Hope to see you all on the trails since that is really what this club is about.

yea mark thats sad to hear, I think some would agree that you are definately an active member at least in the real world of wheeling, and thats what brought me to TTORA in the first place. I could talk to others about trucks, upgrades, problems, wheeling events, and chit chat, and not about controlling a group of open minded wheelers like myself and pushing the necessity to remain a group.

Since everybody on here has an outside life, it seems like an unfair situation, because some people have more time on their hands to organize events which is awesome, but you can't expect people to show up, since theres not a gun to their head telling them "Hey you must attend this or else...." I understand the need for someone to run this club, BUT, I think it is unnecessary and immature to go to such extents just to remain in control of everyone, after all this is free roaming website. So that being said I hope to see numbers at Redbird this weekend,;) everyone have a safe friday so we can wheel this weekend :cool:

-Andy

jeep crasher
10-21-2011, 04:35 AM
My turn!

Did this thread get copied from Pirate? Cause the way it sounds everyone just wants to bitch and moan about being butthurt. Just because I'm not over 1500 posts doesn't mean I wasnt a peeping Tom at your window. I have been paying attention to what's been going on since the clubs inception. No leadership is perfect, but things on this board did run a little better and more organized when Bear and Brinner were in charge. Overall I think forum use was up when Bear was in charge. And usage is not down only because Bear and I have been somewhat preoccupied and not on the boards or on the trails.

For all of you that stick around, and I hope all of you do honestly stick around, you'll find that I'm the quiet type. If something needs done I hope my reputation says I'm the first to jump in an physically help out. I'm not the type to sit and type all day long. Just because I'm that way doesn't mean I don't understand what the forum is for. It's for comradery and a love of off roading. And for that I'm in, what I don't have time for is someone being upset that they didn't get picked to be captain of their dodgball team in 3rd grade or picked 1st for a relay team in second grade. The last person in line is just as important as the first, but the first persons job is to organize the rest of the line.

Since Bear left, and I'm not on here every single day, I think there has been less organization. I didn't find out about runs until at most 2 days prior. Now that i got my FJ i plan on making alot more runs, just easier lines thats what the buggys for. As long as I know far enough in advance. Those of your with wives and kids and home projects know what I mean.

As V.P. my job is to increase new membership and current member participation. My first act will be to post up my buggy build and FJ mods. Hopefully I will have them up by the end of this weekend.

You'll all find out I'm a big movie fan so here's my qoute for this situation:
(only substitute Ttora for cheer)

Torrance Shipman: Courtney, this is not a democracy, it's a cheerocracy. I'm sorry, but I'm overruling you.

Courtney: You are being a cheer-tator Torrance and a pain in my ass! -- IMDb Quotes:
Bring It On (2000)


Get over it and move on. It's over


Later

Crasher

natetru
10-21-2011, 06:00 AM
mayb if you didnt know until 2 days prior is because you didnt visit the forum enuff, and if that is the case should you be in charge of said forum? i dnt think anyone is whining that they werent picked, we are upset that all this is done behind the scenes with no input. and i went thru the forum posts for the last year.....
new years run posted 12/13
4-1 posted 2-22
3-5 posted 2-23
3-18 posted 3-09
8-1 posted 4-06
6-5 posted 5-18
these are hardly 2 days before the run...i know there are some spontanius runs here and there and that may not be allowed since the two of you obviously dont care about the opinions of others! is that better

jeep crasher
10-21-2011, 07:12 AM
mayb if you didnt know until 2 days prior is because you didnt visit the forum enuff, and if that is the case should you be in charge of said forum? i dnt think anyone is whining that they werent picked, we are upset that all this is done behind the scenes with no input. and i went thru the forum posts for the last year.....
new years run posted 12/13
4-1 posted 2-22
3-5 posted 2-23
3-18 posted 3-19
8-1 posted 4-06
6-5 posted 5-18
these are hardly 2 days before the run...i know there are some spontanius runs here and there and that may not be allowed since the two of you obviously dont care about the opinions of others! is that better

I think its funny you proved my point. Out of 6 runs you showed one of them being posted the day after the run, 3/18 posted 3/19 and the rest leave 5 runs in about 24 mos. thats 1 run every 4.8 mos. I would hope runs would be more frequent than every 5 mos.

You and others have made it very clear that you are not happy with the way things are in this Chapter, that's fine, so with that I will ask you kindly to go your separate way and enjoy either the national board or another forum altogether so that this chapter forum can get back to being positive, helpful and constructive.

Later

Crasher

natetru
10-21-2011, 07:25 AM
no problem, push everyone else away and you and bear can enjoy your personal forum... word of advice....take other peoples opinion into consideration....and by the way it was 3-18 posted on 3-9 my typegraphical error your heiness

jeep crasher
10-21-2011, 07:53 AM
Well I guess in fairness you did get it down to 1 run every 4 mos. I would think that an event per month would be a good average. It's also understandable that not everyone can make every event and no ones expected to.

natetru
10-21-2011, 07:57 AM
finally, some civility and something that can be agreed upon... 1 run per month average would be awesome, even if some people can only make 1 every 3 or 4 months...more runs= more exposure

Bear
10-21-2011, 08:14 AM
It is time I post to attempt to resume some resembelence of order. Comment and actions on this thread since yesterday is exactly why new leadership is needed within this chapter.

I have attempted to veiw this issue in a non personal fashion and will continue in those attempts, but the slander posted last night would make it acceptable for me to go off on the two minority and departing opinions.

First off, as I began to type yesterday, before all this immature whining started, Red Bird Runner: thank you for your comments and this is exactly the part of the position you spoke of with this comment " As I have stated previously I am not even sure a vote would change the outcome because as you stated the position is at best a headache with the only reward being the personal satisfaction of being involved in making inttora a success. "

and one final personal observation to the ones belly aching: I could have sworn I read as recently as yesterday that you both were not going to be frequenting the chapter boards anymore, yet and specifically to Nate, you have posted more in two days than I think you have ever positively posted ever. in other words, just leave as you will not be missed. you constantly attempt to be as J.C referenced. It is easy for anyone to attempt to be what I call a keyboard bully, or what others refer to as a internet bully. Although I can and have held my own with the best flamers ever to post to any ttora forums I refuse to allow you to temp me into a flame war over this. I am far too mature and also realize this is a family oriented chapter and will always attempt to be a leader by example and not a thorn to the betterment of the chapter.

As for Mark's post of last night, It was expected yet shows total lack of ability to properly handle affairs and attempt to twist words and events to suit your purpose first and above the good of the club. In reality I have told you for over a year and a half that you needed to remove yourself from office, but everytime I approached you about it you ignore the subject and immediately attempted to change the topic.

When you embarrassed the chapter at 09 SETO, I can't count the number of national members I had to apologize for you for your actions, brought on directly due to your ignorance of TTORA much less offroading "culture". Please learn that when camping in a group it is customary for drivers and club members to sit around camp fires and bs. if you do not wish to be disturbed don't let your "hero worshiping" dictate where you place your tent.

As for Nate's and yours claims of me having hidden agendas or doing things "behind the scenes" I only view that as a case of the kettle calling the pot black. I will open and publically admit everything done had no contibuting parties except for myself nor was there any false lies spread or truths twisted. I do take personal offense to being called a liar!

regarding this comment in Marks recent post: "He stated that he had recieved several email messages complaing about my poor leadership and lack of activity on the website. When i asked for copies of said emails, the excuses began and it was clear to me that they didnt exist."

First off get the facts straight before attempting to whine yourself out of a paper bag. I never told you I had emails. I told you specifically I had been contacted by serveral members and that they requested that I kept their names confidential as they did not want to be drug into any sitution such as what you and nate are doing here. FACT: I have received numberous PHONE CALLS, and have spoken with members in person one to one, complaining about your lack of leadership, lack of organization and what they felt was your attempt to alienate them as well as others to drive them out of what they called your "good ole boy club" *those are their words...not mine. I also received numerous Pm's but I am unable to save every pm I get as I recieve on average 5-10 pm's daily due to my involvement in TTORA.

Again that last statement about alienation is being proven true with your's and nates actions.

over the last 24 months I may not have been equally involved with our locat chapter as I have been on the national boards but my "membership" in either has never declined. Although you have admittedly commented to me that you have also not posted as much on the local board due to the lack of activity and your personal life. So if the lack of post on my part or J.C's is in question why shouldn't yours not be as well? It seems we all "monitor" the boards equally.

This comment is accurate from Marks post although it is grammatically incorrect: "What was clear was that bear wanted the role back and if he wanted it that bad i was gonna let him have it bc it obviously meant more to him than i."

But the reasoning is skewed. I wanted the "role" back in order to correct all the damage done when entrusting Mark with the leadership of the club. To return the chapter to times of progress and developement. times of family oriented events and affairs such as what we had.

being president is responsibility, not a title. it is a trust not to be taken lightly. So yes it is more important to me than obviously it is to you. Again leadership has the root word of Leader, and a leader leads by example which I have proven to be a better example. This is a lesson I learned years before most was probably even born. not only have I served TTORA in the past as an area leader, I was also team captian's for various baseball organizations, a successful business owner as well as department manager. But I digress.

There are no "hidden agendas" on my part, I will state it clearly. InTTORA was founded on the philosophy that the club be entertaining, family oriented and ACTIVE. and again were there mistakes made in the past on my part? HELL YES there were. but out of dignity and class I will not disclose what the biggest mistake was not out of embarrassment or shame, but out of respect.

Mark, I am sorry you feel it neccessary to point fingers while in the background claim to be a friend and snivle about getting involved in offroading because me. I am also dissappointed that people feel they must be two-faced to gain satisfaction for whatever agenda they personally have.

I have far too many personal affairs that this is taking time away from for me. I am sure there are many other issues I could address but the main point is, the chapter must move on, if anyone does not like the direction it is heading, I am sorry, we will always listen to suggestions and attempt to make productive steps. But again Mark was right in his parting shots insenuating (sp?) the club is important to me. and as Momma Bear made mention in another thread/post. TTORA to me is a family, I have been associated with the club almost since it's inception. I was merely a month or two away from being a "charter member" of the national club. In otherwords I have been associated with the club almost as long as the club has been in existance. I have seen many changing of officer's during that time, and it seems there is always some type of "drama" that places out during those changes. I apologize the chapter has been drug through the mud with this one but hopefully I am viewed as the mature individual throughout this one with the dignity and class needed to continue to lead our chapter. the whole purpose I have is to bring the activitiy level and atmosphere around here back to being family and child friendly while also promoting responsible off roading. Oh! and yes I have been acting "behind the scenes" I'll report the progress at the appropriate times, but I think the results will be encouraging for all members.

Bear
10-21-2011, 08:18 AM
Nate, that was the core intention when we started the club back in 04. We had agreed to attempt to hold at least one event (whether it be a run, meeting or philothopic(sp?) event) per month. I also made Mark aware of that goal when appointing him president. yet when I turned over the office I also handed him the paperwork to adopt a trail at Red Bird yet he claims I never gave it to him.

Fortunately I was able to resume those proceedings with Bruce and we will be adopting a trail this weekend. It is merely one of those "behind the scenes" affairs I spoke of.

I must admit though, your comment regarding Civility puzzles me, seeing the directions in which the "attacks" are coming from.

jeep crasher
10-21-2011, 08:20 AM
Ok let's build on this common ground. This is just an idea. How about (and these are just estimates) 1 run a month at a rotating site around the state or somewhat local. At these events we would have chapter meetings etc. then one or twice a year as a club we shoot for maybe an extended run, either further away or maybe 3-4 days camp an wheel. I would like to see chapter help support other clubs somehow like toys for tots. I know we've talked about sponsoring a trail how about maybe more than one, for name exposure. Please come back with ideas to build on. I'm going to start a thread to get everyone's input on clubs goals and ideas. And where they would like to see it go

Later

Crasher

Bear
10-21-2011, 08:28 AM
J.C, you have my support with this idea. but as I mentioned earlier and as I am sure you can back me up since you have been around since the very first chapter meeting, our original goal was to have some type of monthly event.

but again, I don't care where the idea came from, as long as we can get some positive results from the discussions. You spear head the thread and I will monitor and give my opinionated imput as I hope everyone will.

I have to get off the computer now as I will never be able to get everything done in time that I need to before tomorrows run! :eek:

Momma Bear
10-21-2011, 08:28 AM
This is really gone to far especially your last(Nazi) comment Nate I can not believe you would actually put that in a post. It sure is funny how when 3 weeks ago mark was approached about this and did'nt have much to say and stepped aside yet now all it is is a "bear bashing forum". I will tell you for a fact that I know of of two of the people and their concerns about how the club had dimissed over the last "24 months". And do we need to devuldge those people? No! they asked for it to be confidential because they knew this exact thing would happen.
I also know of one member from another chapter as well who complained about Mark and a situation that happened at the SE Takeover last year when they called Bear and asked "why was Mark made president when he can not participate in events that occur at a takeover because he and his wife complained about the noise at 10pm when everyone is hanging around the camp fire"? Bear listened and advised why he was no longer in the position. I personally tried to talk him out of giving up the position. Hell what was the IN chapter doing before Bear pulled it together? Was there an IN chapter? But since he was busy trying to build a business and was on the road a lot he felt it was the right thing to do.
It just came to a point that Bear felt it was time to talk to Mark. Bear nor Crasher planned this or schemed together as you are making it out to seem. I'll tell you what when we met Dave7 years ago now he was not even into off-roading. He had just purchased a new Jeep , stock and was recovering from a horrific car crash .Crasher maybe a 'silent member" but I'll tell you what if I wanted to be wheeling with ANYONE on the trail it would be Crasher. He never complains and is always there to help the other person out even if he looses an entire day or weekend wheeling just to help weld his drive shaft back together or crawl under the truck to fix the u-bolt and even console a paniced wife and he NEVER shoves it back in your face. That is the whole purpose of the club!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Therefore name calling? Totally un-called for.
Can we not all be adults? That is basically what Crasher's post was about. Bear approached mark about the issues in confidence, I see where that is not a moral of some either. But he felt it did not need to be aired publicly. You feel otherwise, fine but it will not be aired.
Enough is enough everyone just agree to get out and wheel and see where the club goes from here. I have said my peace

Bear
10-21-2011, 08:48 AM
Ummm, you mispelled "piece"

But thank you for your thoughts and comments, and I am striving to do as you said.. go out and wheel. we do need to move on.

Momma Bear
10-21-2011, 08:49 AM
NO PEACE is correct . It not a 'piece' of pie LOL

Bear
10-21-2011, 08:52 AM
no, you have given a "piece" of your mind, not part of your spirit. LOL

but I ain't mess'n with no Momma Bear! there bitches out in the wild! ;)

jeep crasher
10-21-2011, 09:08 AM
no, you have given a "piece" of your mind, not part of your spirit. LOL

but I ain't mess'n with no Momma Bear! there bitches out in the wild! ;)

Did you just call "YOUR BETTER HALF A BITCH"

Wow!!!! Pure balls, buddy. Pure balls

Fuod
10-21-2011, 09:19 AM
If anyone had a complaint about how things were being run coulda discussed that openly. Mark, u are a great motiviator. Thank you for the great runs and good conversation. I hope u keep my number and in touch...mayb we can keep in touch though the other forum.
There were complaints, I received a few myself. I also received several complaints, practically from day one, about you Nate.

natetru
10-21-2011, 09:40 AM
and did you relay those complaints joe? can i fix something that i dont know is wrong... hey its obvious, we have 2 groups here and people are siding one way or another...thats fine. maybe the discussion should be with shannon about beginning another chapter instead of the arguing back and forth here... so as long as my name isnt brought up on this subject from here on out i will drop it and let this chapter go on. thanks, have a nice day

NwiTACO
10-21-2011, 09:41 AM
Last reply as this thread has gone way to far.

I had every right at seto to ask that people leave from in front of my tent. We had all gone to bed when they came up and put wood on our fire and started it up again. The common courtesy would have been to go build a fire in front of ur own tent and drink and make noise...not someone elses.

And for the record i NEVER recieved the redbird paperwork...another LIE from our new president...just like in the past.

And i dont want this taken wrong because as i have maintained i do believe barry runs the club better. However i am not butt hurt as our new vp says. Maybe his ass is from this but mines not.

And to bears comment a out embarrassing the club at seto bc i wanted rest...why did they specifically invite me back this year...i know why...bc i can keep my truck running thats why.

Momma Bear
10-21-2011, 09:48 AM
WOW! That is really low of you Mark "cause I can keep my truck running". YOU HAVE NO IDEA AT ALL WHAT OUR FAMILY HAS BEEN THROUGH IN THE PAST 2 YEARS WITH LOSS OF A MAJOR JOB START OF A NEW BUSINESS THAT DUE TO THE A-HOLE IN THE WHITE HOUSE WE COULD NOT AFFORD TO CONTINUE WITH THE FUEL PRICES THE WAY THEY WERE. SO BEAR DECIDED TO PUT THE TRUCK ON THE BACK BURNER TO DO WHAT HE COULD FOR HIS "FAMILY" BETTER "THINK" ABOUT THAT SINCE YOU ARE "THINKING" OF STARTING A FAMILY SOMETIMES FAMILY COMES BEFORE "TOYS"

Oh and if you need to know Bear was invited back too.! I am so over this crap you all need to move on
And nate we did discuss matters with Shannon

Momma Bear
10-21-2011, 09:50 AM
Crasher I don't mind the compliment

natetru
10-21-2011, 09:59 AM
im glad you spoke with shannon.... i wish all the bs was behind us but it currently is not... i am outspoken, forward and not afraid to voice my opinion even if it is not the popular way of thinking.....i may be a dick, i know it....but i am honest....and honestly i tryed to turn the corner a lil while ago with j.c. "finally, some civility and something that can be agreed upon... 1 run per month average would be awesome, even if some people can only make 1 every 3 or 4 months...more runs= more exposure " but some of you over looked that i guess......

Momma Bear
10-21-2011, 10:11 AM
No I saw it and that would be great and i hope that all this will be behind us and it will stop. and we can all get out wheeling. I pray that bear has a great safe and no carange trip this weekend.
But don't anyone EVER call my husband a liar again cause I have known the man for over 23 years now and he has never lied once it is not in his DNA he was brought up by a wonderful but strict Southern woman and lying was not put up with.
And Nate i am sorry but the comment that mark made about "keeping my truck running" struck a nerve. So i apologize if it "offeneded" anyone but offend or bad mouth ANYONE in my family or the TTORA brude and I will go cajun native on your ass.

Momma Bear
10-21-2011, 10:11 AM
SO shut up and wheel!!!!!!!!!!!!! dammit

natetru
10-21-2011, 10:24 AM
I am going to keep my opinion off the board as much as I can right now. It looks bad on us nationally. If anyone wants to know my problem or thoughts pm me and I will gladly express my feelings...

EVILTacoSupreme
10-21-2011, 10:46 AM
Ok let's build on this common ground. This is just an idea. How about (and these are just estimates) 1 run a month at a rotating site around the state or somewhat local. At these events we would have chapter meetings etc. then one or twice a year as a club we shoot for maybe an extended run, either further away or maybe 3-4 days camp an wheel. I would like to see chapter help support other clubs somehow like toys for tots. I know we've talked about sponsoring a trail how about maybe more than one, for name exposure. Please come back with ideas to build on. I'm going to start a thread to get everyone's input on clubs goals and ideas. And where they would like to see it go

Later

Crasher

x100000000000000 all for that idea, i agree on adopting multiple trails, why not whole off road parks if they are small enough? If my taco is reliable enough i would love to travel at least a 200mile radius to off-road

natetru
10-21-2011, 10:52 AM
x100000000000000 all for that idea, i agree on adopting multiple trails, why not whole off road parks if they are small enough? If my taco is reliable enough i would love to travel at least a 200mile radius to off-road

x2, if things are worked out and civil we should spread the name and if we can all pump the money we do into our trucks why not pump a lil back to the needy while we are at it

Momma Bear
10-21-2011, 11:17 AM
I agree!
have fun for who ever is gonna make it tomorrow. I'v got marching band duties with Cub #2 GO AVON! so not sure if i will make it or not this time.

ron86toy
10-21-2011, 04:20 PM
wow!!!!...that is just about all I can say.....even though I am way up north I have been on many runs with the club,with Bear and Mark as pres...but some of the posts are just hard to swallow....sure I am not a post whore but I am on here almost daily and have been on here for quite some time.....I will not go any further...my input would open a whole other can of worms.

tacoma_2002
10-22-2011, 12:21 AM
Well, just my opinion....

Bear has been a well thought of friend of mine since '08 when he offered me his previously booked room at Takeover '09. I have since been a guest at Bears home in Avon (over 500 miles away from home) where I was treated with the utmost hospitality I've ever experienced. Bear and I worked 5 days straight on getting my front bumper, tube doors and skid plate done ( he was attempting to get the back bumper complete when I left) and WOULDN'T take any pay for his hard work or lodging. I'll be the first to say that Bear and his family are undoubtably the most hospitable and caring people I've ever met...honestly I feel HUMBLE when I think of how I was treated by them.

As for Dave.

I met with Dave for the very first time when he made time to drill a hole in my winch cradle and use his tubing bender for a stinger bar for my bumper....AFTER he had worked a double shift and had no sleep in over 24 hours and didn't ask for anything in return.

KUDOS to both you guys (and your familys) for being such good friends to ME and TTORA....would they have done the same for any of you?

More than likely.

IMO you IN guys should be HONORED for them to be 'head' of your chapter...

I hate there are hard feelings between any of you guys and I really hope you can all be adults and look past all the nonsense.

As for now happy wheeling up in Redbird tomorrow (today actually) and I'll see you guys on the trails!

95toyotan
10-22-2011, 07:59 AM
Thanks for that post Tacoma 2002

I may get out to the trails VERY little (if ever anymore) but you are right, These are two TOP NOTCH individuals to work or ride with and both have my upmost respect.

It was a blast wheelin with mark as well,that guy is crazy!:D

I've been busy just keeping my truck running here lately (after 167,000 who would think parts would start to wear out:eek:) and putting in some patch panels in my bed. But Dave, I STILL haven't got my sliders welded on yet!:lmao:

Later guys :welder::saw::welder:

Roll Tide
10-22-2011, 04:28 PM
WTF is going on!?!?! I go on vacation for a week and the SHYTE hits the fan... hahahahahaha.

EVILTacoSupreme
10-22-2011, 10:30 PM
go to redbird tomorrow ^^^^

Roll Tide
10-23-2011, 07:29 AM
work...

EVILTacoSupreme
10-23-2011, 01:35 PM
oh ok well J.C is going to post up some pics of it I believe when he gets back