Jade's rebuild! (Rear long travel)

[Lysmachia]

Troy and I went to Avon to help Jade!

All pics are here! http://cottora.shutterfly.com/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d639b3127ccec7b14aafe56100000040O08AbNWLJszZOA e3nw0/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d639b3127ccec7b1d7dfa5c700000040O08AbNWLJszZOA e3nw0/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d639b3127ccec7b19874e5d300000040O08AbNWLJszZOA e3nw0/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d639b3127ccec7b1e9dca5db00000040O08AbNWLJszZOA e3nw0/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d639b3127ccec7b01c26c58f00000040O08AbNWLJszZOA e3nw0/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d639b3127ccec7b05553047600000040O08AbNWLJszZOA e3nw0/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d639b3127ccec7b1950ca53500000040O08AbNWLJszZOA e3nw0/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d639b3127ccec7b00da904a000000040O08AbNWLJszZOA e3nw0/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d639b3127ccec7b1b2f0647200000040O08AbNWLJszZOA e3nw0/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d639b3127ccec7b05da885b900000040O08AbNWLJszZOA e3nw0/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d639b3127ccec7b1006964b200000040O08AbNWLJszZOA e3nw0/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d639b3127ccec7b0ff43850300000040O08AbNWLJszZOA e3nw0/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

[Lysmachia]

Saxon the horse!
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d639b3127ccec7b142e4641e00000040O08AbNWLJszZOA e3nw0/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d639b3127ccec7b0fc98c54100000040O08AbNWLJszZOA e3nw0/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d639b3127ccec7b1ac7964f400000040O08AbNWLJszZOA e3nw0/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Molly and Saxon!
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d639b3127ccec7b0512e853900000040O08AbNWLJszZOA e3nw0/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d639b3127ccec7b034f9447400000040O08AbNWLJszZOA e3nw0/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d639b3127ccec7b150c5643600000040O08AbNWLJszZOA e3nw0/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d639b3127ccec7b070bf441000000040O08AbNWLJszZOA e3nw0/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d639b3127ccec7b13775a51d00000040O08AbNWLJszZOA e3nw0/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d639b3127ccec7b1fe97e50300000040O08AbNWLJszZOA e3nw0/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Layla's Taint! (Jade took it!)
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d639b3127ccec7b0dc64c5ad00000040O08AbNWLJszZOA e3nw0/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

How many guys does it take to fix a staple gun!?!
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d639b3127ccec7b0d0f8c53700000040O08AbNWLJszZOA e3nw0/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Ron our garage host and layla!
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d639b3127ccec7b0e81f44fc00000040O08AbNWLJszZOA e3nw0/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

All pics here! http://cottora.shutterfly.com/

[devinsixtyseven]

Hello old rear axle! :woot:

Jade, either you need to move the shackle back an inch or two, or you need a slightly longer shackle (you can likely just move the one you have, back). At the moment you're sacrificing several inches of compression travel, and putting the spring at great risk of damage.

Money shot...ok, I would post this, but Shutterfly brings the uber-ghey...requiring Javascript active to load the page, and then using Javascript to prevent directly linking a picture without having a stupid account. What sort of crap is that? If you want to see the picture of the axle all twisted up, you'll just have to go to the album yerselves and deal with Shutterfly's bullshit.

-Sean

[RedRunnertc]

Jade, either you need to move the shackle back an inch or two, or you need a slightly longer shackle (you can likely just move the one you have, back). At the moment you're sacrificing several inches of compression travel, and putting the spring at great risk of damage.

:confused:

I will be the first to admit I don't know a lot about leaf setups, but at full droop, the shackle is vertical. At full stuff, the shackle almost hits the frame. The axle easily stuffs to within a couple inches of the frame without the leaves going negative - the shackle location makes sense to me ... If we moved the shackle hanger back farther (which would be a MAJOR PITA since it is all burned in now), wouldn't the shackle go over vertical at droop and risk inverting the shackle?

[Firetacoma]

Hey Saxon, why the long face?

[Mythica]

Damn looks sweet!!!

Yeah i dont think they are getting moved now. I want to hear Dev's reasoning behind his statement. I dont see anything that looks out of place. Although i would have tacked it all together good and then sat it on the full spring pack to see what the angle looks like with weight on it.

What springs are you working with 63"s.

I am a little worried about those nice shocks making love to the frame when its fully drooped.

Frame plating looks nice! Those crossmembers are freeking awesome!!! ;)

[Lysmachia]

:confused:

I will be the first to admit I don't know a lot about leaf setups, but at full droop, the shackle is vertical. At full stuff, the shackle almost hits the frame. The axle easily stuffs to within a couple inches of the frame without the leaves going negative - the shackle location makes sense to me ... If we moved the shackle hanger back farther (which would be a MAJOR PITA since it is all burned in now), wouldn't the shackle go over vertical at droop and risk inverting the shackle?

You mean ALMOST vertical. Remember what Ted told us about making sure we don't let that shackle invert at full droop. Also We did test it with just tack's with the full leaf pack in there....

[Mythica]

and set the truck down on the ground to see how it looked with weight?

If so, well played!

[spindleshanks]

Hey Saxon, why the long face?

the funniest thing I've heard all day!:D

[Jade]

Sorry, the styling green crossmembers had to go, their true calling, came calling. The real crossmembers are in.

The leafpacks are Deaver F67s. 62.5" with a 3" lift arch for spring-under. The shackles are 12", I don't know of anyone running anything longer.

I put a tape on it today for ride height, it sits about an inch lower than it did before. Both measurements were without the bed. The back did sit a smidge higher than the front, and the bed is not going to be reinstalled, so I'm thinking this will be acceptable.

Troy and I are examining the clearance between the frame and tire for the shocks very closely and are still exploring ideas....well, I think that Troy is.....I'm just sitting here typing this and hoping we can get it sorted cuz if we can make it work, it should be a blast to drive.

What I wish for most would be that I wouldn't need to eat, sleep or shit.....then I could get so much more done.

[RedRunnertc]

Got your shock hoops bent tonight!

[Jade]

Got your shock hoops bent tonight!Mmmmm...got bent. I got enough 1/4" for eight shock tabs....just in case.;) And a couple slices of 3/8" mostly by accident.

Hey Molly! Why isn't there a picture of all three of us standing inside the frame, three grinders a grinding?:p

[Lysmachia]

Cuz I had no one to take the pic!!! I guess I coulda had Saxon do it though :neener: And good call on the 1/4" sheet. Should we bring the plasma cutter then? I plied Pete with Pie last night for his tube bending help. I'll ply him with a cheesecake next week. That man loves his desserts!

I'm sure we will get it all sorted this weekend! I am excited to make even more progress, even roll it around a little!

Well I'm off to get Ron an alignment so we can drive the runner up this weekend! WHEEEE!

[devinsixtyseven]

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d639b3127ccec7b19874e5d300000040O08AbNWLJszZOA e3nw0/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d639b3127ccec7b1e9dca5db00000040O08AbNWLJszZOA e3nw0/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/The main leaf is not flat.

Or is it?

If it is flat, and that is a camera angle that puts a curve in the main leaf somehow due to the point of view, then everything is fine.

If it is not flat, then either the shackle is mounted too far forward on the frame, or the shackle is too short.

It's easy to prevent a shackle from reversing, make that your least concern. Make sure the main leaf has sufficient room, plus a hair, to go completely flat without binding anywhere.

Don't worry about the shackle angle with respect to vertical. That is a guideline, rule of thumb, whatever you'd like to call it...but it is definitely not exact.

If you're not sure, grab a trim strip (cuz it's cheap and easy) and do what I described before. If it fits, good. If it doesn't, move the shackle. Mind that the trim strip will be center to center of the eyes, but the leaf is at the lower radius of the eyes...tho I don't think it'll matter, looks like you have plenty of room to mock it up.

What are the distances, eye to eye, of the leaf pack in natural arch, and flat? I think you said 62.5", flat...what's the other measurement?

-Sean

[devinsixtyseven]

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d639b3127ccec7b0ff43850300000040O08AbNWLJszZOA e3nw0/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/At full droop in this picture, the shackles are about perpendicular to the line between spring eyes, but not vertical to the frame, or so it appears (not that vertical to the frame matters anyway). If that were the full droop you'd be using on the trail, you'd have some leeway to move the shackle back.

The natural arch of the assembled pack will be a little more than the natural arch of the main leaf by itself...the shims push the arch up a bit. That position may be about right for the assembled pack, but if I'm correct regarding the "flatness" of the main leaf in the other pictures, the position isn't correct for full compression. There's still room to move it backward, or just swap it for a longer shackle.

[bluetaco]

I see some potential torque load issues with the spring / axle location ... in the compression pic you appear to have a bias load in front of the axle (in regard to the "flatness") that will stress that part of the spring unevenly ... not good for keeping traction and avoiding axle hop. (the angle is less than ideal for keeping the pedal down under load or hard acceleration and would potentially hurt off camber control during compression, especially if you are getting a good amount of torque to the tires?! )


are you keeping the stock drive line dimensions? because you may be able to compress the axle further than the drive shaft can travel with the setup I am seeing ... moving the shackle back like Sean was noting would eliminate that if the spring is indeed locating the axle as it appears in the photos!

when Chris (Little Red) swapped to the 63" chevy springs we ended up having to clock the axle way more than expected ... it was fortunate that we could find shims that worked ... I am hoping that the forward spring perches
are correct for the standard cab chassis by comparison to how they are located on the x-cab!


how did you guys spec the shock hoop location relative to the frame and axle location ... what geometry are you using?! in other words!

where are the plumb bobs, floor markings and drive shaft simulates?! :eek:

You think Troy would have learned to keep a physical reference in place with the Ron experiment! LOL!:D

I will be keeping an eye on your build ... I'm jealous!

[AxleIke]

The main leaf is not flat.

Or is it?

If it is flat, and that is a camera angle that puts a curve in the main leaf somehow due to the point of view, then everything is fine.

If it is not flat, then either the shackle is mounted too far forward on the frame, or the shackle is too short.

It's easy to prevent a shackle from reversing, make that your least concern. Make sure the main leaf has sufficient room, plus a hair, to go completely flat without binding anywhere.

Don't worry about the shackle angle with respect to vertical. That is a guideline, rule of thumb, whatever you'd like to call it...but it is definitely not exact.

If you're not sure, grab a trim strip (cuz it's cheap and easy) and do what I described before. If it fits, good. If it doesn't, move the shackle. Mind that the trim strip will be center to center of the eyes, but the leaf is at the lower radius of the eyes...tho I don't think it'll matter, looks like you have plenty of room to mock it up.

What are the distances, eye to eye, of the leaf pack in natural arch, and flat? I think you said 62.5", flat...what's the other measurement?

-Sean

In these pics, the back shackle mount does not look welded, it looks like its just sitting there. In the pic of full droop, it looks to be farther back, and welded.

[devinsixtyseven]

In these pics, the back shackle mount does not look welded, it looks like its just sitting there. In the pic of full droop, it looks to be farther back, and welded.Good call on the location...really hard to tell. I probably should've asked before I opened my mouth. Did you guys move it back, from the two compression pictures above, to the droop picture with the finalized mounts?

Layton, I believe if you trace the relative curvature at the front and rear of the leaf spring in the compression photos to it's source, you will find...
























The leaf spring perch :flipoff4:. The other leaves aren't in place to support the main leaf, and the perch puts a flat spot in the leaf that interferes with the leaf's ideal flex. You won't see a flat main leaf on its own, with a point or short distributed load in the middle...only when the full pack is in place. That's why I recommended a suitable replacement...piece of trim works well enough, or if you wanna get fancy you can use a piece of box tube or something.

[RedRunnertc]

To be honest, I don't recall if we moved them back or not.

I CAN say there was a helluva lot of stress on them in the original position - broke the tacks!

[Jade]

You guys are funny....

In the first two images quoted by Sean (spelled correctly), the leaf was not flat, the shackle mounts weren't even tacked and were actually resting on top of the frame, there was a big old bumpstop between the frame and the axle (remember it's spring-under), and the rear spring eyelet was being pressed down by the frame.

In the third image quoted, the shackle mounts were tacked, but the tires were on the ground because we weren't sure that the tacks were going to hold; they didn't. Even one of the front ones was getting a little iffy.

I put the driveshaft in today, there's only about two inches of plunge, total. When I removed it some weeks ago I set it in the corner and didn't touch it until today. It had not changed length and when I put it in today the fit was almost exact.

The pictures are just pictures gang, no one mentioned that they were documentation or references of "max stuff" or "full droop". All ya'll (that's plural for ya'll) are crackin me up.

I mostly dicked with the brakes today, I figure that there's not much point in preparing for a test drive if I gotta swerve into the puckerbrush or a fence to stop.

I am presently drinking a beer.....note to self, buy more beer.

[Lysmachia]

Yeah I think the moral of the story: Not looking for advice unless you see something critical. Troy, Jade (and I kinda helped) Poured over the geometry for an entire weekend.

Remember Jade has been researching this for a while. I think we have our I's dotted and are close to crossing those T's ;)

The pics were more for documentation purposes and can't be taken as fact since they don't tell the whole story. :D

[Jade]

No harm, no foul guys. I thank you for looking over my shoulder, looking out for me ya know. But they were just pictures.

When I get the truck on the trail, I'd be more than happy to discuss the minute of how it works or doesn't and what could've been done differently. I look forward to that.

[RedRunnertc]

Made a lot of progress today - shock towers are in and troyangulated. Tomorrow we'll fab up the shock mounts themselves, get the shocks in and check everything out, then burn it all in!

Truck looks faaaaast!

[RedRunnertc]

It was running when we left last night ...

[Lysmachia]

Uploading pics now.... It was super cool to get it runing and play a little, even if Troy and I got home at midnight!

[devinsixtyseven]

Come awwwnnnnnnnnnnn :D...I'm e-stalking this thread :cool:.

[Lysmachia]

More!

IMG_4016.JPG

[ike]

pic no work

[Lysmachia]

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d605b3127ccec7a4538b3adc00000040O08AbNWLJszZOA e3nw0/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

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[RedRunnertc]

http://cottora.shutterfly.com/4386

[Mythica]

WOW! didnt realize how big those shocks were until i saw that huge shock hoop!

Looks good, but damn those are some big shocks.

What size are they? Will it cycle all the way through the shocks travel?

[ike]

Nice work, but why does a from behind view of Layla always get posted:confused:

[Lysmachia]

Nice work, but why does a from behind view of Layla always get posted:confused:

Jade snuck a pic of layla's taint. Twasnt me!

[RedRunnertc]

18" travel Fox remotes ... it should cycle just about all the way through. Jade prioritized wheel control and shock protection over absolute travel, so we mounted the shocks outboard of the frame and perpendicular to the springs at flat pack.

We planned it so the leaves bottom out under "static" forces about 1" before the shock. It was difficult to test full compression - between the leaves and the charge in the shock, the forces just got too high to really flatten the pack. Once again, there's about 1/2" - 1" at full stuff before bottoming out the shock.

[Mythica]

It looks awesome!

Good call on leaving the 1" or so of shaft. Much smarter and safer in my opinion with high dollar shocks.

Dealing with the PSI in those shocks is a pain in the rear huh?

What PSI is he running? 160?

Is he keeping the same size tires on there? Doesnt look like he has much room for them to grow unless he changes the BS on the wheels

[RedRunnertc]

Whatever they come with - 200 maybe? I know we couldn't compress with my considerable weight.

[00regcab]

Looks good Jade! You know, in all honesty. Id say cut out the bed floor, and run the topper again! Kind of sleeper look :D

[Avsfreak1234]

but at the same time ya gotta show off the bling!

[devinsixtyseven]

Awesome :D

[Jade]

I hope we didn't leave it running....it'll be outta gas for certain now.

The shocks came shipped with a 200psi nitrogen charge.

I don't know if the topper would fit, I'm just going to see what my imagination comes up with over the winter. I might mount a rocketbox for the winter just for snowboards and groceries.

Devinsixtyseven offered excellent info and suggestions on setting up the shock/leaf relationship/orientation (does that make sense?).

Troy truly did the lion's share of the work, I was just there for the pictures (I held his laptop hostage and motivated him by sneaking up on him with the wire feed zapping his hamstring when he slowed or dosed off).

This wouldn't have come together without Troy and Molly! No way! Endless thanks!

Now I have to sort out some brake and light/wiring things to get it "street legal" to get to a trailhead and do some more shakedown goodness.

I'll be back.....

[devinsixtyseven]

The shocks came shipped with a 200psi nitrogen charge.It's easier to cycle them if you release the N2 charge ;).

...Tho you gotta have a moto shop or something handy to recharge them. The Schraeder valves on my 2.5x8 shocks seem to bleed down every year...a yearly top-off isn't a bad idea, probably worth getting a small N2 bottle & regulator now that you're running big shocks.
I don't know if the topper would fitI can envision it working like one giant wheel well :D.

Now I have to sort out some brake and light/wiring things to get it "street legal" to get to a trailhead and do some more shakedown goodnessDuct tape & zip ties :cool:.

[Jade]

The moto shops also want $15 per shock to refill them. I've been gettting my front ones check annually as well.

I buggered the threads on the dividing block the sits above the rear axle and need to find another, seemingly not available in a 10x1.0 thread in THIS county. I'm also trying to fit in a manually adjustable proportioning valve....metric/SAE/metric. The duct tape doesn't seal very well. Zip ties are planned for the taillights though.

[Mythica]

Well i made my own Metric/sae lines.

You might be able to use an sae block. run metric to sae at the PSV and then sae back to the block and then Sae to Metric at each wheel.

[devinsixtyseven]

When I picked up a Wilwood valve through front range, the adapters were provided IIRC. Just make sure, if you need a union, that the nipple angle is correct...the ones I found at the auto shops around here weren't correct & didn't seal. The ones Brian has are correct. Sorry, don't know the angle difference, only that it's an obvious difference if you compare them, and the wrong one doesn't seal at all even tho the threads are the same.

[mrdoug]

would that angle you're talking about be the 23* vs the 45* flares?

I'm a hydro newb and pretty dumb at this point, but I recall reading something about those flares being different import vs domestic. Could be very wrong tho.

[devinsixtyseven]

would that angle you're talking about be the 23* vs the 45* flares?

I'm a hydro newb and pretty dumb at this point, but I recall reading something about those flares being different import vs domestic. Could be very wrong tho.

Yeah, I think that was it...one works, the other just leads to a lot of inventive cursing.

[Mythica]

The little pieces of line that i got from I think ORS when i was swaping my truck didnt come in handy for my PSV location.

So i had to make all my lines. I didnt have to buy any fittings other than the SAE ones. I grabbed the metric fittings off my old lines.

Provided that you keep the fittings in the right location it should work like a charm.

[RedRunnertc]

I was thinking the other day, if you have, and will be running, ABS that you wouldn't need the proportioning valve, the ABS would take care of it...

[AxleIke]

Just FYI, but Parker Stores have the hook up on ALL things tube/pipe/fitting related. I will never go to another auto parts place for brake, steering, cooling stuff again. These guys have it all.

[mrdoug]

Just FYI, but Parker Stores have the hook up on ALL things tube/pipe/fitting related. I will never go to another auto parts place for brake, steering, cooling stuff again. These guys have it all.

What's the Parker stores? I assume not just some random store in Parker. Got link/addy/etc?

[Mythica]

I was thinking the other day, if you have, and will be running, ABS that you wouldn't need the proportioning valve, the ABS would take care of it...

How is that?

The PSV is to porportion the brakes when there is a load in the truck.

No load = low brake power
Heavy load = higher brake power


I dont see how abs is going to "correct" that. Sure it might keep the back tires from locking up but it is not intended to do such a thing. In fact with no load in the bed it may not keep them from locking up as the weight shifts forward. Even if it does work, its not right

[Jade]

I found a metric block at an auto recycler....and a rolled Tundra, the guy is going to pull the CV axles for me.....mineminemine. I made the lines that I needed. I have a couple pics in the driveway....but first....a celebratory box of Mac and Cheese....

[AxleIke]

What's the Parker stores? I assume not just some random store in Parker. Got link/addy/etc?

Here are the local ones. I go to the one in Louisville:

http://www.mccoysales.com/ParkerLocations.html

[Jade]

It lives....

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d604b3127ccec7a606db221200000030O00AasWjJo5btW QPbz4e/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d604b3127ccec7a737c8c3fd00000030O00AasWjJo5btW QPbz4e/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d604b3127ccec7a60e3522f800000040O00AasWjJo5btW QPbz4e/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d604b3127ccec7a6f78d62a400000040O00AasWjJo5btW QPbz4e/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

It rides much different than the El Camino....I took it up toward Cottonwood Pass (toward Ruedi Reservoir). Several times I told myself that I shouldn't drive it so hard first time out but I just kept driving. All went fine....except those lines on the fuel tank....TROY....:D. I put it back up on the lift and retorqued everything, sorted tools (I have your guy's tape measure) and called it a day.

Now I can relax.

[colorado125]

Good god man. Its looking good!!!!!!:cool:

[mrdoug]

Very cool... but I got to say, I see the pictures and think "It has wings".. there's a joke in there someplace... it absorbs the bumps, has wings... it's early, the joke might come to me later.

On another note... I was surprised to see you go spring under. Are you aiming at high speed, desert type stuff? or just something a little different for the rock trails?

[Jade]

Maybe a Red Bull sponsership?

I guess that I'm trying something a little different. The LT on the front works really well both on the street, on the fire roads, and even in the rocks. Why not try it with the rear as well was my thinking. The travel and articulation is pretty good and Ted did The Rubicon with LT. There's comprimise no matter what path is taken. I can't envision ever trailering it ya know.

[mrdoug]

I like the thinking outside the box. And I hear you on it working well in the rocks as well as the compromises. Looking forward to watching it in person on the trail. :xbeer3:

[Lysmachia]

Me too! That's why Troy and I spent 2 weekends up there.... we want our Jade back on the trail!

[Jade]

Mmmmm.....freshly modified Tundra CV axles.....

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d701b3127ccef87d1908854f00000030O00AasWjJo5btW QPbz4e/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

[RedRunnertc]

How has the shock tuning been going?

[colorado125]

Mmmmm.....freshly modified Tundra CV axles.....

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9d701b3127ccef87d1908854f00000030O00AasWjJo5btW QPbz4e/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Looking good man, need to get out on the trail again with you.:cool:

[Jade]

I reduced the pressure to 180psi yesterday. I don't see making any more adjustments until I get more weight on it. Progress is rather stagnant, I really need to decide on the taillights and licence plate location.

[Lysmachia]

You must decide before this weekend! We are making ourselves go (open/open even) cuz your going LOL!

[Jade]

Those things will be temp (zip-tied) this weekend. I was talking about the bigger, longer term.

[Lysmachia]

Ah gotcha! If you see the wheeler thread we have places to stay with beds and warmth in fairplay!

[Jade]

Yeah, I've subscribed so I get the notifications when there are new posts. I have a pal that lives in Park City so I offered to let him ride shotty with me if he doesn't want to run his stock DD. I hope the weather holds for the weekend, I would really like to get one trip out with some harder lines with spotters and such to get a better feel for things. Thus far I've only done "safe to solo" trails.

I think that my old man would get a chuckle outta some gnar pics too.

[Quick Draw]

Jade, then cabin is right in "Park City"...as in the grouping of really old cabins and houses at the base of the mine on the hill... Who do you know in there?

[Jade]

My buddy used to own the first two log cabins on the left going west along the "main drag" where there are places on both sides of the road. Now they have a place up by Orphan Boy or some such. They're name is McDowell. If the run materializes I'll show you there old cabins and we all may be able to meet up.

[Quick Draw]

I know the ones you're talking about. I'm pretty sure my grandpa knows them. And I'm sure they know our dirt bikes...haha. Yeah, my cabin is like 200 yards, if that from there.

[Jade]

He rides a dirtbike as well so you're probably right. How's your grandpa known (name)?

[Jade]

I removed the turndown from the muffler so that the exhaust is no longer directed at the rear axle. Without the cargo box, the fumes no longer hang out beneath it. It's a little louder in the cab.

I balance the tires and lowered the shock pressure to what I think of as the lowest allowable.... 150psi. I found the ride on the pavement to be intolerably jeepy and jarring over speed bumps and potholes. I'm talking about rear wheels off the ground bounce. Lowering the pressure improved this quite a bit.

While checking the flex, I noticed that it appears that on the Wheeler Lake trip, the passenger side inner shock bolt head contacted the the frame. It can bee seen as a fleck of paint hanging on the frame. I will be keeping tabs on this.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9ce25b3127ccef81d0b575cdc00000030O00AasWjJo5btW QPbz4e/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9ce25b3127ccef81c564d3c3c00000030O00AasWjJo5btW QPbz4e/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9ce25b3127ccef81d4adf1cec00000030O00AasWjJo5btW QPbz4e/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9ce25b3127ccef81d99805c4200000030O00AasWjJo5btW QPbz4e/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9ce25b3127ccef81db4321c7e00000030O00AasWjJo5btW QPbz4e/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
:cool:

[Ice Horse]

Sidenote, gorgeous horse you have!

[RedRunnertc]

You might need to look at revalving to a lower rate then.

[Jade]

You might need to look at revalving to a lower rate then.Yep, that's lurking in the back of my mind as well. I thought I'd play with the easy stuff first.

Thanks Ice Horse...

[devinsixtyseven]

Put everything you intend to carry back on the rear of the truck first.

If you haven't changed the rear tire pressure numbers since you took everything apart, it's almost certainly too great in the rear tires. Chalk it, you may be surprised. I would guess conservatively that you've removed about 400# that used to be over the rear suspension.

Then bring the pressure back up to 200psi and valve to suit...

[Jade]

Put everything you intend to carry back on the rear of the truck first.

If you haven't changed the rear tire pressure numbers since you took everything apart, it's almost certainly too great in the rear tires. Chalk it, you may be surprised. I would guess conservatively that you've removed about 400# that used to be over the rear suspension.

Then bring the pressure back up to 200psi and valve to suit...It's like you're reading my mind.

I've dropped the rear tire pressure to 20psi to take the edge off the smaller road hazards and I'm still rolling on mainly the center of the tread and the shock pressure is reduced for the same reason. Progress has kind of stagnated due to work....I hardly have time to pace and mutter.

Thanks for keeping me on track Sean.

[devinsixtyseven]

Progress has kind of stagnated...............I hardly have time to pace and mutter.Tell me about it :rofl:...

[RedRunnertc]

LOL good quote there Jade!

[Lysmachia]

Sidenote, gorgeous horse you have!Side note... Saxon isn't Jade's. He just boards at the place where Jade was working on his rig.
But he was such a cool horse!

[Jade]

Oh....I forgot all about the horse....

Here's one for ya'll. Should I wait and get the front end aligned with the truck laden or do ya think I'd be okay in it's present state of dress (or undress)?

[devinsixtyseven]

Oh....I forgot all about the horse....

Here's one for ya'll. Should I wait and get the front end aligned with the truck laden or do ya think I'd be okay in it's present state of dress (or undress)?

Do it when it's in DD form and don't sweat the changes when it's loaded for the trail. There's less toe change, and less geometry change in general, when the LT cycles...and anyway caster will increase when the rear is loaded, even if nothing at all changes in the front...

[Jade]

That's what I wanted to hear. Thanks again.

[Lysmachia]

God Sean, you really have the research on LT dialed! It's been really cool to read this thread. In fact it was extra cool when you alerted Jade, Troy and I to the fact that we need those shock tops mounted in front of the axle, and the reasoning for it. That was something all 3 of us almost missed.

[Jade]

I'm thinking.....fenders....

http://minimizer.com/images/armadillo_03.jpg

[ike]

They would work, but are ugly.

[Lysmachia]

They would be prefect for the Jade Mobile!

[devinsixtyseven]

Hmmmm...

Nope...no, definitely not.

Those are simply not ugly enough.

:rofl:

[Jade]

I could spray them Rustoleum Chrome.

[ike]

That would be sweetness.

[Avsfreak1234]

dude, yes!

[devinsixtyseven]

Make it dually in the rear, like the pictures. :lmao:

[Jade]

Make it dually in the rear, like the pictures. :lmao:Whoa! Did you just say that? That's not a dually setup, the word is tandem.:p

[Lysmachia]

even better Jade! Tandem in the rear!

[ike]

6 wheel drive!

[Jade]

And if you could get them as steer axles too. Installed triple bypass shocks last night...way better ride.

[Lysmachia]

Not so rough and jolty now? Wait were you running with no shocks on wheeler lake?

[Jade]

I was running smooth-bodies w/remote resis. These are piggybacks. Way more adjustability and frees up a little room. Remember where the resis were mounted before? This is what I should've done in the first place.:rolleyes:

[RedRunnertc]

Pix? What length shock? How do they fit with the bypasses? It was kinda tight in there before ...

[Jade]

Pictures are pending (translation, there aren't any). 18in stroke, same dementions as the originals. The only issue that I can see might be the compression tubes during extreme articulation. Fox Racing says the shocks are right/left specific and mounting them on my truck has the resis facing out, the comp tubes forward and the rebound tube........f-it. I'll get pics up tomorrow, it'll be easier....LOL.

[Lysmachia]

So what did you end up doing with the old shocks. And yes pics please Jade ;)

[Jade]

Here are the three best pictures that I have of the truck flexed. Note the relationship between the tire and original shock.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9ce25b3127ccef81d99805c4200000030O00AasWjJo5btW QPbz4e/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9ce25b3127ccef81d0b575cdc00000030O00AasWjJo5btW QPbz4e/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9ce25b3127ccef81c564d3c3c00000030O00AasWjJo5btW QPbz4e/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Here are the pictures that I took this AM (mobile phone).

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0df07b3127ccef961444d305000000030O10AasWjJo5btW QPbz4e/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D1/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0df07b3127ccef961976bf1b700000030O00AasWjJo5btW QPbz4e/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0df07b3127ccef9605e30106c00000030O00AasWjJo5btW QPbz4e/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Now, the perspective in all these images might be kind of skewed, but it does appear to me that the tire will likely contact the one comp. tube and/or the resi. when flexed out.

The very minimal info that came with the shocks say that they are right/left specific but give no info as to the suggested orientation of the shock body, i.e. the resi inboard or outboard. Rotating the shock body is something that I may have to explore....

...but for now....the truck rides awesome! The tires stay in contact with the ground rather than bouncing around like a playground ball. I can catch glimpses of what's going on via my side mirror and out the back window and see the suspension really move. Prior, the irregularity would kick the truck so hard that my face would hit the A-pillar grab handle knocking my sunglasses askew and the curses would fly. Now I'm seeking out routes with huge speed bumps and dips so that I can go rocketing over/though them when I can rationalize blowing the money on fuel. I no longer feel like I'm getting kicked in the kidneys.

The original shocks and the new ones appear to share many of the same parts (upper/lower mounts, shaft, heims, resi, and probably the valve stack according to the engraving). So, unless someone really wants to buy them, I have spare parts.

[RedRunnertc]

Sweet!

I think I would look at flipping them around so the resi's are inboard and see which will give more room to the tire.

How is everything holding up? Welds OK, everything still tight?

[ike]

Looks awesome!

[Jade]

Agreed. Everything seems to be kosher.

Thx ike.

[Lysmachia]

Wow, I didn't realize they weren't softening up. Glad you got the additions. I look forward to videoing you doingsome baja. so you can see for yourself how it looks :D

[Avsfreak1234]

yes, thats beautiful.

[devinsixtyseven]

tandem...durrrr :p

looking great!

[Firetacoma]

Wow, this build is famous!

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=849050&highlight=hack+job&page=36

[Avsfreak1234]

whats it doing in their ghetto fab thread though? I love Jades long travel build!

[vwfastg60]

I cant seem to log in but i think this should go on that thread lol

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs375.snc3/24043_1377819320997_1097288478_31120455_1121139_n. jpg

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs395.snc3/24043_1377819441000_1097288478_31120458_1722162_n. jpg
note the leak in real time lol.

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs375.snc3/24043_1379613365847_1097288478_31124320_6828910_n. jpg

The doved front looks alright i guess
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs435.ash1/24043_1379613445849_1097288478_31124321_563914_n.j pg

[Jade]

whats it doing in their ghetto fab thread though? I love Jades long travel build!Molly and Troy best not see that, there'll be hell to pay.

[devinsixtyseven]

whats it doing in their ghetto fab thread though? I love Jades long travel build!

if you assume that photo is the final, complete, no-more-work, time to roll, finished, polished product, then yes, it looks totally :missingto which is why i don't drive my half-finished junk around town.

otherwise, yeah, it doesn't belong there. it'd be like posting up a half-finished, tack welded cage and saying it was ghetto.

Molly and Troy best not see that, there'll be hell to pay.who cares? it's not done yet. when it's done, then, if it still ends up on that thread, be worried :cool:

[Lysmachia]

True dat. Besides I could care less what others say... You aren't done yet! :D

[wakkjobb]

Okay, not to dump on anything but why on God's green earth are those shock hoops so dang big????? They look silly from my view. (kinda drunk) Get shorter shocks already!

I have no tubing bender...
>>Dan

[thefatkid]

They are 17" travel 2.5" bypass shocks. His truck is a compromise of wheeling and long travel prerunning. A prerunner would mount the shocks lower then the axle centerline because: A. he would already be spring under so ground clearance would not be an issue. B. lower center of gravity for high speed manuvers. A 4wheeler mounts his shocks higher/above center line to protect them from damage (those shocks are over $700 a piece abouts).

Being that his front only travels about 13", he could have run 14" rear shocks. They would have been around bedrail height when using shortbody resi-shocks. The bypasses kinda limit your options though.

edit: some bedsides would take some of "look" away from the shocks

[thefatkid]

Oh shit, he is spring under :p

edit: looks like because he wanted the shocks outside the frame they couldn't be mounted any lower. To mount them lower he would have had to notch and brace the frame fro shock body clearance.

[RedRunnertc]

Oh shit, he is spring under :p

edit: looks like because he wanted the shocks outside the frame they couldn't be mounted any lower. To mount them lower he would have had to notch and brace the frame fro shock body clearance.

Exactly. (They're the popular Deavers - 53" I think?)

The main design parameter was to have the shocks mounted outboard and as perpendicular to the axle motion as possible for maximum control of the axle. Keep in mind with the shocks mounted this way, you don't get any "bonus" travel due to leverage - the 18" of the shock is it, so it matches pretty well with the front.

We took the leaf packs apart and cycled everything full stuff to full droop. To keep the shock body out of the frame, we needed to mount the shock body above the frame, and that required a higher mount on the axle. Checking everything after it was assembled, the full range of travel is available (minus an inch or so on either end for safety factor - you don't want to blow shocks that cost this much!).

Getting everything optimized as much as he needed it for the investment he had in the parts and the intended use was a pretty difficult build - as hard or harder than my link setup I would say.

Jade had a helluva time tuning these shocks because the rear of the truck is so light, and has since gone to bypasses. I haven't seen it with them, but I would imagine it's super tight in there.

[devinsixtyseven]

Well said Troy.

Okay, not to dump on anything but why on God's green earth are those shock hoops so dang big????? They look silly from my view. (kinda drunk) Get shorter shocks already!Leaf travel is dictated by the leaves...you want the shocks to travel just a bit farther than the leaves to avoid damaging the shocks...and those leaves cycle pretty far, so the shocks need to be long, and they're set up ~1:1 at full compression, so they're gonna be sticking up pretty far.

There are plenty of other ways to mount them, but that's the most straightforward and will work well enough while he sorts out the rest of the tubework.

[wakkjobb]

Ah, gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up! Now it makes sense. :o

>>Dan