CB Q's?

[gasbandit]

I know CB's have been covered before but I would like some input for my setup. Gonna try to get this going before Red Cone. 2nd Gen Runner....

This
http://www.amazon.com/Cobra-18-WX-ST-II/dp/B00005N5WU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1251006662&sr=8-3

This in the rear bumper
http://www.amazon.com/FireStik-FS5-B-Tunable-antenna-Black/dp/B000X3EP7I/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1251006812&sr=1-2

And this to help not break shit off as much
http://www.amazon.com/Heavy-Stainless-Steel-Antenna-Spring/dp/B00042LC9M/ref=pd_bxgy_e_text_b

Of course grab an swr and dial er in(may need some veteran help here). Cable come with or have to be bought separately?
Opinions/input? Thanks all, as always!:kewl:

[acidchylde]

Is the bumper metal/grounded to the frame and body?

You'll need a mount or at the very least a mounting stud to put in the bumper because it doesn't look like it comes with anything you linked to. And neither does the cable, so yes, you'll need that too. Also, if you're mounting to the bumper with a 5'er, particularly on a spring, you'll probably want a tennis ball or something to put on the antenna because it will be smacking the back of the truck somewhere.

[gasbandit]

Yes the bumper would be fully grounded to the frame. Good idea on the tennis ball that could get annoying quickly. Spring necessary? Thanks acid.
Is the bumper metal/grounded to the frame and body?

You'll need a mount or at the very least a mounting stud to put in the bumper because it doesn't look like it comes with anything you linked to. And neither does the cable, so yes, you'll need that too. Also, if you're mounting to the bumper with a 5'er, particularly on a spring, you'll probably want a tennis ball or something to put on the antenna because it will be smacking the back of the truck somewhere.

[RedRunnertc]

I always had problems getting a usable SWR with the spring, and the antenna whips all over the place, sometimes quite violently. Of course, when I didn't use it, I broke 2 antennae ...

So I switched to one like this:
http://www.new-tronics.com/main/html/center_load_models.html

I have closed it in the garage door, just bent it back, good as new! You definitely need one long enough to get above the roofline or you won't have very good directionality

[mrdoug]

I ran a 60" firestick with a spring on my bumper. It works, but does flop around alot (x2 on the tennis ball). The spring I got had a grounding strap inside the spring and had good SWR. I picked mine up at the CB shop at Johnsons Corner (knowledgeable people, but can be cranky)

[acidchylde]

Tough call on whether a spring is 'necessary'. I remember watching Stubby's when we ran Kelly Flats and maybe he doesn't have a 'heavy duty' spring but his antenna was all over the place, more than I would have expected. Mine on the other hand, a 4' Firestik without a spring, just kept vibrating loose because I'd only hand tightened it.

On the trip a couple weeks ago, I had the same problem. First the antenna came loose on the stud, so I wrenched that tight. Then the stud actually started separating, so I had to wrench that tighter than before - which is tricky because you can't go too tight or you'll crush the nylon washer and end up with a short. And then finally my admittedly not ideally secured mount's bolts worked loose. I think a spring might have reduced that some. For what it's worth, I never had any forward/back rocking, it was always side to side. Without seeing it, you wouldn't think those heavy antennas would flex that much on their own, but then the longer they are the more weight flying around at the end of basically a big lever.

To RedRunner's point, I had two different quick disconnects on mine at one time or another, and both affected SWR but only slightly, no more than you could do with a few turns of the adjustment screw. I've yet to try one with a spring - they may have a different effect. You'll also want to test your setup before you drill or do anything permanent - there's a chance where you want to put it just isn't going to give you useable SWR and you'll have to try something different.

CB shop at Johnsons Corner (knowledgeable people, but can be cranky)

So it's not just me. First time I went there after getting my truck a 'younger' guy helped me out, even came out to look at the truck to talk mounting options. A couple of months ago when I went back looking for a quick disconnect, an 'older' guy barely wanted to give me the time of day. He did help out but the vibe I got made me never want to go back.

[RockyMtnHigh]

Walmart has the Cobra 18 WX ST II for about $10 cheaper including tax, bought one a few weeks ago, I like the Francis antennas (http://www.francisantennaonline.com/) they are supposed to be tougher than the Firesticks, they are pre-tuned as long as you're using a specific length of coax. I recently had to replace one because I snapped it off, got a heavy duty spring now, I bought both at Summit Radio 7155 E 53rd Pl, Commerce City, CO 80022 - (303) 287-3306 (53rd and Quebec) I think I paid $15 for the antenna and about the same for the spring.

[gasbandit]

Thanks fellas for the responses and links this will help a ton. Not really familiar with the world of CB's. When I get everything installed I will grab one of you to help with the SWR.

[Stealth 4x4]

Firestix/fiberglass antennas aren't the only good antennas either. I bought a magnetic mount base loaded antenna that I put on the top of the cab and it has never hit the truck, despite being super flexy. Stays behind the back seat when not on a run, magnetic mount is strong and works great. Super flexy antenna has been rammed into a ton of overhanging tree limbs and never been damaged.

Powerful antenna too. On a lot of runs I can transmit to and receive from more trucks than at least one or two other rigs in the group. So I end up relaying info. Look around. Firesticks are thick, heavy antennas and are not the only choice.

Here's what I have, a Wilson 5000. Love it.

http://www.rightchannelradios.com/wilson-cb-antenna-109/wilson-5000-magnet-cb-antenna-357.html

[CO.NATIVE]

Here's what I have, a Wilson 5000. Love it.



I'm trying to get my on before tomorrow also, hahahaha.
anyways... not that you'll got this home boy figured out..

what do you think about the wilson 1000? much of a difference between the 1 and 5000? Is it worth the extra money I guess...

I tried to call the shop that was mentioned above, but it went straight to voicemail.

[Stealth 4x4]

If you get the 1000, and have it tuned, you won't have any complaints. Not as powerful as the 5000, but still a nice setup.

[madness]

I went to the guys at johnsons corner as well and the "younger" guy helped me out. He recommended a new antenna that he had just got in. It about 3 ft. tall and is the perfect height for a fender mount. It looks like fiberglass but is flexible like a steel whip, bends end to end. They have them in black and white. I really should get mine tuned but it works really well. Nate was about 250-300 yards away and not visible but could he could still hear me.... although i was hearing quite a bit of static. I have an "old crappy" CB that i got from russ.

[Lysmachia]

You shoulda dropped by the HOW N. (119 and 1-25) We have an SWR meter!

[madness]

had no idea. when's the next bit of free time that you've got. i only live about 5 min away.

[Red Brewer]

SBS electronics in wheat ridge is a place I can recommend. I bought like $40 worth of stuff from him (the owner, can't remember his name) and he was super helpful, friendly, and offered to tune my antennae for free too. Discussed mounting options and which antennae would be good etc, I ended up with a 2ft Astatic on a hood mount tuned by mike here at the peterson HOW and have been nothing but happy with it.

He (josh i think? Could be wrong) does mostly other electronics (he described CB as "barbaric") but he carries the stuff and was more than willing to go the extra mile- when I have money for keyless entry he will get my money.

[Stealth 4x4]

I have started to hear things like that lately about CBs being lesser technology. But they have worked fine for me. On most runs the group is within a mile of eachother (usually much closer) in which case CB is fine. You don't have to be able to reach everyone when they are 200 miles out, bouncing around on repeaters. At that point, use your damned cell phones, and just get them on the CB when they get close.

One of the groups I wheel with from time to time (ExPo) has a run coming up where they are posting that 2meter will be the comms for the run. That is a first for me. I have never been on a run where my CB wasn't good enough to keep in contact with the group. And damned if I'm going to run out and buy a 2 meter setup and get a license, just so I can run with the antenna farm guys. At least not until I absolutely have to. The SoCal group also have a few guys who recently bought 2meters and they are pushing them as well. I suppose its coming, but I plan to hold out as long as possible. There are so many better things I could spend my truck mod funds on.

[Lysmachia]

You shoulda dropped by the HOW N. (119 and 1-25) We have an SWR meter!

I'm here most of the time. Text me seven two zero 933.3 zero 71 (Don't call cuz I won't answer if I don't know you ;)

Than again I don't know how to use the SWR very well so if you see this today Troy is here, or after 6 most nights this week....

[RedRunnertc]

At that point, use your damned cell phones, and just get them on the CB when they get close.

... I have never been on a run where my CB wasn't good enough to keep in contact with the group. ...

I really think at least one person in the group should have 2M on some of the runs we do because there isn't cell phone reception for many miles. For communicating WITHIN the group, CB is great, but in an emergency, 2M would be pretty indispensable.

Personally, I wish there more of a compromise solution, like marine VHF - almost the power of 2M, but much less licensing requirements.

[fast7mtoys]

cb is one of those, invaluable, old skool, simple means of communications..........nice and simple........no roaming fees or long distance either............good investment for any rig...........

[mrdoug]

What's more is you don't have to pay/take a class, learn the etiquette to be able to press a button and say "you're hung on your diff" or "turn left at the Y after the ledge"

[Stealth 4x4]

Reason #453 to wheel with COTTORA. :D

[RedRunnertc]

Like you need more than 1 reason?

[Stealth 4x4]

Damn, Troy! Am I that transparent? :p

Personally, the first time I wheeled with you COTTORA guys the only reason I needed to plan an 8-day trip with you was that Nate said you were going to Moab and wouldn't mind the company.

After a year of wheeling with a lot of different clubs in 4 states I am starting to develop my own preferences. But generally, yeah you're right... I am THAT easy. 1 reason is enough. Gonna have to learn to be more discerning when I grow up I guess. :eek:

[Chalkie]

I really think at least one person in the group should have 2M on some of the runs we do because there isn't cell phone reception for many miles. For communicating WITHIN the group, CB is great, but in an emergency, 2M would be pretty indispensable.

Personally, I wish there more of a compromise solution, like marine VHF - almost the power of 2M, but much less licensing requirements.

The licensing is really simple with ham. Believe me, if I can pass the test, anyone can. It costs $13-15 for the exam fee, the license itself is free and is good for 10 years. There are all sorts of online, free, study guides. And you can get a 2M rig for about the price of a high quality CB.

I think when we ran the WFTW run having at least one person in each group and someone at the base camp would have been a plus. We did not encounter any emergencies, but we could have. Personally I get way more use out of 2M on a day-to-day basis than I ever have with CB.

You do not need an "antenna farm" on your vehicle. Just one simple antenna will do it. And you can talk about the long distance talking via repeaters all you want, but most of the repeaters can be hit when cell service is non-existant and quite a few of them have phone patch capability. Even if they don't there is always a friendly ham out there that will place a call for you.

When running in a group who all have 2M, you run on low power (1 watt or less) and you can say pretty much what you want as long as you keep it clean and identify your call every so often. Kick the power up and you can talk far longer distances, even in the mountains, and given VHFs pathing capabilities you can talk "around corners".

[mrdoug]

It costs $13-15 for the exam fee

Reason #1 against


We did not encounter any emergencies, but we could have.


Point for you


you can say pretty much what you want as long as you keep it clean

Deal breaker..

[Chalkie]

The fee pays for the time of the volunteer test examiners, it is not a fee to the government.

And I know you know how to keep it clean. :lmao:

[Stealth 4x4]

I really think at least one person in the group should have 2M on some of the runs we do because there isn't cell phone reception for many miles. For communicating WITHIN the group, CB is great, but in an emergency, 2M would be pretty indispensable.

From a safety in case of emergency viewpoint, I can't and won't argue with that.


cb is one of those, invaluable, old skool, simple means of communications..........nice and simple........no roaming fees or long distance either............good investment for any rig...........

I agree.


What's more is you don't have to pay/take a class, learn the etiquette to be able to press a button and say "you're hung on your diff" or "turn left at the Y after the ledge"

True.


The licensing is really simple with ham. Believe me, if I can pass the test, anyone can. It costs $13-15 for the exam fee, the license itself is free and is good for 10 years. There are all sorts of online, free, study guides. And you can get a 2M rig for about the price of a high quality CB.

I think when we ran the WFTW run having at least one person in each group and someone at the base camp would have been a plus. We did not encounter any emergencies, but we could have. Personally I get way more use out of 2M on a day-to-day basis than I ever have with CB.

You do not need an "antenna farm" on your vehicle. Just one simple antenna will do it. And you can talk about the long distance talking via repeaters all you want, but most of the repeaters can be hit when cell service is non-existant and quite a few of them have phone patch capability. Even if they don't there is always a friendly ham out there that will place a call for you.

When running in a group who all have 2M, you run on low power (1 watt or less) and you can say pretty much what you want as long as you keep it clean and identify your call every so often. Kick the power up and you can talk far longer distances, even in the mountains, and given VHFs pathing capabilities you can talk "around corners".


I get that the technology of 2M is far superior to CB for long distance comms, and know its coming. And the safety in an emergency thing is the only good argument I've heard for one yet. If you ask me, I'd say it won't be long before enough people out of all the attendees to a big event like WFTW will have 2M that your ideal of at least one per run will be easy to attain. And I know I will most likely have to break down and get one some day soon. I get it. I just resist running out and getting the coolest fancy gadget when what I have is working fine for the purpose for which I use it. I never had a CB until I needed it for wheeling runs. I have only had mine for a year and a half, I bought it for wheeling, and now I already see a run on a trail close to my house that I enjoy which I'd like to attend - but where my CB wouldn't be good enough. That just rubbed me the wrong way. And I am not a CB/comms nut - not even a daily user unless its on a trip where I'm wheeling daily. I never use it except to communicate with other rigs on runs.

For the record, I'm a pretty easygoing guy. Please, you guys do what you want. I won't scorn you if you all have 2m the next time I see you. A lot of guys out here and in SoCal already do. Buy all the comms you like. I fully admit that I'll probably have one myself soon enough. Don't be offended if I respond poorly to the uppity gadget junkies setting up a run and telling me my CB isn't good enough. That's between them and me. Oh, and I cannot argue with anything in your post Chaulkie except for one minor thing... Its not that "one simple antenna" wouldn't "do it"... its that its one MORE simple antenna that I don't need. I've already got a nice CB antenna which has been working great for me so far (again, for communicating among the other rigs on a run - which is why I bought it).

A friend of mine is a Ham operator and is into it enough that he can administer the test and certify me easily. He's already offered, because he wants me to get into ham. Its not even going to be a hassle for me when the time comes. Its the principle of making an unnecessary gadget a run requirement that gets me. And I know you guys are not doing that here, yet.

If they tell me I need 35's or bigger for a run, and I can't go because I am on 33's, it doesn't bother me at all. I am glad to know the trail is that technical. If I want to go, I'll get 35's. Now if someone tells me I have no business on 33s and IFS on a run like Holy Cross or Swamp lake (which I've done in my rig under its own power) because they are an elitist who believes their build is the only build suitable for those trails, then I will stand up for myself and what my truck can handle. When legitimate, those types of build restrictions are there for a good reason, and serve many purposes. When I went on my first run, I bought a CB (which was only reccomended, not required) so I could communicate within the group. When I realized many of the runs near me either required or recommended 32-33-inch tires, and I was on 31's I saved my pennies and when the 31's wore out I upgraded the rig to 33s. But by making an unnecessary (to communicate within the single group for the duration of the run) gadget the comms for a run, it just seems counter to the whole welcoming attitude most wheelers I meet tend to have. Out here in AZ, we don't even make CBs a run requirement, because we want to encourage new wheelers to come out, and we know if they are new, they are not likely to have a CB. Someone usually has an extra handheld they can loan out to the new guy so he can at least hear the few trucks close to him. I suppose it struck me as a bit elitist, purposely exclusionary, and completely unnecessary, esp. given the fact that most if not all of those guys on the other forum ALSO have CB's in their trucks.

And these are guys I have wheeled with and had dinner with more than once. Nice guys. But they just get so into their new toys that they get a little carried away I think. :2cents: Would it be a good safety procedure to try and make sure at least one rig in a group on a run to a remote area with unreliable cell phone service has 2m? Yes. Absolutely! But should an unnecessarily powerful (for the run) 2M setup be made a requirement for a trail run? No way. I think that would be a bad call, and not just because I don't yet own a 2M radio.

[Chalkie]

In the main I do not necessarily disagree with your sentiment if you are only thinking in terms of a trail radio. But let me ask you, do you have a cell phone? If so, why? Why is there a need for you to be in contact or be able to be contacted just about anywhere, anytime? The places I go in the state, whether wheeling or not are often not going to have cell service, or cell service is just plain spotty. However, if all you wanted 2M for was wheeling then I would probably agree that is could be a waste of time and money.

I use mine for much more. For example, just this last weekend it got me a dinner invitation with some friends camping up on Tincup Pass when I was at our cabin. :D But seriously, around here in the summer months when there is severe weather, the National Weather Service monitors the main wide area repeater for storm reports from hams. Simply picking up the mic to report a flooded intersection, or that hail is falling a certain area, helps them refine their forecasting and you are performing a public service.

That licence also lets you talk to people all around the world via IRLP (Internet Radio Linking Project) or Echolink. You don't even need a radio with Echolink. I have actually talked to people in Antarctica, Australia, Germany, Scotland, Canada, England on IRLP. It is a lot of fun and makes the world (in my mind) a smaller place.

Talk to your local Emergency Coordinators and find out directly the role that ham radio plays in public emergencies. You'll find out that there is a lot more to it than just a trail radio.

Oh, and for the record, my ham antenna is always on the truck, the CB antenna gets put on the quick connect ONLY on a trail run. :)

[madness]

I figured i would add a new question to this thread since we already have 50 CB q's threads.

I've re mounted my CB below my radio and now i cant seem to get anything on it. I used to be able to pick up convo's while driving down the highway but all i get now is static.

First question... does the power and ground wires have to be run on the opposite side of the truck as the antenna cable? I figured this could be one of the problems because the static seems to get louder as the engine increases in RPM, on some channels its a high pitch whine that goes with the RPM.

Second... would my radio be interfering with the CB? Its a really old 23 channel so maybe the new and old technology don't mix. They are only an 1/8th inch apart now.

Third... Most of my antenna cable is coiled up in the kick panel next to the fuse block. Could this be part of the problem?

My CB used to be mounted on top of my sub box behind the driver seat with the power and ground wires running to my amp wiring... (i was in moab and needed it hooked up asap) when it was mounted there i never had a problem with it other than having to turn of my radio because it would interfere with the sub signal. And it was a pain in the ass to try to adjust it.

Thanks in advance :)

[RedRunnertc]

Sounds like a grounding issue to me ... CB's are really sensitive to ground loops, need to make sure both the antenna and the radio are grounded really well.

[acidchylde]

Moving radio or antenna can drastically change performance, even with pretty small moves.

1) They don't have to be. Did you move the antenna too, or just the radio? Where did you route the power for the radio from, since it sounds like you moved it off the amp source? Is your antenna cable still in good condition or does it have bends/kinks and possible shorts/breaks in it? Same for the power/ground wires?

2) Maybe, but it wouldn't/shouldn't if the radio was off or you would notice some kind of difference at least.

3) Coiled antenna cable is not good, especially a tight round one. A looser skein, say loop it between your elbow and hand then twist to get a figure eight would be better.

That said, if you could pick up signal before and can't get anything at all now, I'd agree that it's probably a grounding issue more than any of the above.

[madness]

well i went up and talked to the old man at the CB shop at johnsons corner, he said that it could be the power wire running through my engine bay thats picking up interference from the alternator (high pitch whine) that could be a major problem as well as the cable wound up in my kick panel.... and possibly a 30+ year old radio.

His solution was the put in a noise filter inside the cab along the power wire and to figure 8 the antenna cable because the coil can change the tuning of the antenna.

Tomorrow ill re route the antenna cable and try a new ground. If that doesn't help ill buy the filter (ten bucks) or re route the power wire.