I want to make you angry.

[*Darcy*]

Why? Because anger is motivating.

We've got to stop being an bunch of upset individuals, and join together to be one angry collective voice.

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs128.snc1/5500_576074325738_46700804_33580459_7938986_n.jpg

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs128.snc1/5500_576074425538_46700804_33580478_4552549_n.jpg

Its amazing how access to OUR public lands can just shut off with a stupid gate. Someone who NEVER used the damn roads just decides, "ahhh well, we don't want you to be able to go this way anymore."

and NO, i don't just mean our OHV trails, i mean all of the roads that are just closed for the hell of it.

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs128.snc1/5500_576074999388_46700804_33580588_2005234_n.jpg

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs128.snc1/5500_576074929528_46700804_33580575_2518229_n.jpg

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs128.snc1/5500_576074934518_46700804_33580576_7341223_n.jpg

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs148.snc1/5500_576074655078_46700804_33580524_7861810_n.jpg

its time to stop sitting back and letting this happen. obviously the law doesn't fall on our side.... what is it going to come to? tearing down the gates? or hell, weld them all shut, if we can't have access, then maybe they shouldn't either.

get angry.

because something has to be done. not just Tellico, not just Cullowhee, Anderson Creek, etc. BUT everywhere. Its not just happening to us, its happening all over the US ... with tens of thousands of members on TTORA, Pirate, etc. how is it that we aren't heard? How is it that we can't create this COLLECTIVE VOICE? You have to stop sitting back and waiting for someone else to speak up for you.

[crawlrunner]

I'm writing my congressman again. They close Tellico due to erosion issues ... then tear it up and cause horrible erosion issues logging the place???

INSANE!!!!!!:mad:

[Derka]

Where is this? Guessing Tellico?

This is all BS. Logging F's up the eco-system more than off road vehicles, but i guess the state reaps the benefits from the taken trees, so i guess it's "OK"!!

[gregers05]

Where is this? Guessing Tellico?


yep

and ill be writing as well

[Beefed Taco]

Gates are even funner to come across when you're on the other side of them after a long day of wheeling and you're staring at the road home just 10 ft. away ! Thanks god for my trusty hack saw in the tool box. Put it back so it was like normal and all this was on indian land...thought I was gonna get scalped for sure. The wheeling was legal, but they closed the damn thing on us on a Sunday night. Plus it was in the snow. The only way around it was through their grave sites...wasn't going there for sure. Gates SUCK!

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc177/BeefedTaco/1TL00006.jpg

[*Darcy*]

i appreciate the fact that you're motivated ... but i think we're a little beyond "writing your congressman"

[Phil88]

i appreciate the fact that you're motivated ... but i think we're a little beyond "writting your congressman"

any sugestions??. This is the crap that happens with government based land and we just put someone in the white house that wants a gov. base Country ooo what the future holds for us!!!

[*Darcy*]

any sugestions??. This is the crap that happens with government based land and we just put someone in the white house that wants a gov. base Country ooo what the future holds for us!!!

honestly? no. I haven't been in on this "fight" for too long, i dont know the history, i dont know the efforts that have been attempted before.

i do know that we (Georgia TTORA) aren't the only ones who feel this way, thats my point... we have to get everyone to come together and make a larger GROUP effort, rather than one or two of us saying we'll write a letter.

how many of you actually did? how many letters did you send? do you think that ONE letter was enough? do you think that the THOUGHT of writing a letter was enough. (NO!)

i'm playing devils advocate here because you've got to be honest and you've got to get real about it!

how many of you think, oh well someone else will do it, i dont need to.

we're beyond letters, we're beyond complaining. What we have done in the past ( a lot of talk, no action! )... well, look where it got us.

get mad at me, whatever. no i dont have the answers, but its not just me here who is thinking this.

put on your thinking caps and start throwing out ideas.

what can we do to get NOTICED? what will get us HEARD? what do we want everyone to know? what is our "side" of the story?? what is it that we really want? and how are we going to go out and get it? its not going to just be given to us ... hell, they're just getting started taking it away.

[Phil88]

Print you out some nice flyers with ur pics before after ect. and well pass them out at the truck fest ;) see how long it takes them before we get kicked out. Or just do it in the parking lot.

[*Darcy*]

Print you out some nice flyers with ur pics before after ect. and well pass them out at the truck fest ;) see how long it takes them before we get kicked out. Or just do it in the parking lot.

that really isn't a bad idea.

if anyone has some pics they want to submit (before and after), email them to georgiattora@gmail.com

i will put a half page of something together and get yalls input on it and come up with a final version ... then some of yall can print them at home and bring them with you. ?


we can reference SFWDA's website/info to give people a place to find out more information

[Derka]

Print you out some nice flyers with ur pics before after ect. and well pass them out at the truck fest ;) see how long it takes them before we get kicked out. Or just do it in the parking lot.

I mean flyers at truck fest is a start, but seriously i think ya need something "louder" to attract the public's/greenies/congressman's/logger's attention. Something like molotov cocktails and guns....not really.

[*Darcy*]

I mean flyers at truck fest is a start, but seriously i think ya need something "louder" to attract the ublic's/ greenies/ congressman's/ logger's attention. Something like molotov cocktails and guns....not really.

thats what i'm trying to say!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[crolison]

If it helps I'll run for president in 2012

[crawlrunner]

i appreciate the fact that you're motivated ... But i think we're a little beyond "writing your congressman"

well thats what i"m doing! What are you doing????

[*Darcy*]

well thats what i"m doing! What are you doing????

stirring up trouble and asking questions. gotta start somewhere! trying to make a plan that will work.. talking to people who know more than i do...

[Alan11116]

stirring up trouble and asking questions. gotta start somewhere! trying to make a plan that will work.. talking to people who know more than i do...

start with SFWDA, BRC, etc. They will be the best source of knowledge as far as the options that we have and the best way to channel our efforts. Otherwise this will turn into an argument thread between everybody. There are already enough of those on all the other forums. Go look at Pirate.

[crolison]

start with SFWDA, BRC, etc. They will be the best source of knowledge as far as the options that we have and the best way to channel our efforts. Otherwise this will turn into an argument thread between everybody. There are already enough of those on all the other forums. Go look at Pirate.

Exactly...

Besides writing letters or incurring about other bureaucratic options, the only other real options land people in jail.

[*Darcy*]

start with SFWDA, BRC, etc. They will be the best source of knowledge as far as the options that we have and the best way to channel our efforts. Otherwise this will turn into an argument thread between everybody. There are already enough of those on all the other forums. Go look at Pirate.

maybe it is somethign that needs to be argued about?

we talked to Danny (Crawfords @ tellico) for the better part of an hour on sunday ... thats what stirred all this up. Go for a drive through tellico, cullowhee, (oh wait, you can't) ... See what kind of emotions it stirs up! You should be ANGRY!

maybe its time to stop funneling our $$ into trash clean ups and bureaucratic BS and actually DO SOMETHING. ??????

[Alan11116]

Starting an agrument on this board is not going to make any positive impact on the situation. Yeah, I've talked to Danny about this several times too. Actually alot of us have. We all know the status of Tellico. It's nothing new. But instead of jumping on and starting a thread about how mad you are trying to make everybody, provide some ideas to make the situation better and certainly don't tell other people that it's too late to write a letter. You never know, that might be all that some people can actually provide to the cause.

[*Darcy*]

looks to me like you're the one starting an argument about not starting an argument. ;) :rofl: (bu really, how am i trying to start an argument? maybe i just dont see it --pm if necessary.)



my point is that maybe its time to try a new angle, obviously what we've been doing hasn't worked out too well. its gone unnoticed and been swept under the rug. yes SFWDA and BRC are busy, but perhaps its time that WE (the ones who are really LOSING here need to get busy!!)

i never said it was too late, i said its time to do more than that. i'm asking to incite real change here ... how many letters did you ("the general you") write? did you only THINK about writing one, or did you actually do it? just ONE, or many? what else can be done??


why should i only bring this up if i think i have the solution...? should it not be discussed to come up with a COLLECTIVE solution?? everyone out there has a brain, they might have an idea .... so come on and share the idea.

i'm trying to be positive, active, motivating, and it seems like you're telling me to quiet down and do whats already been done. maybe the reason we keep loosing places is because we are constantly told to quiet down.

we should be angry, we should be doing something.


don't get all upset at me, read this not as an attack (because its not!) read it as someone who wants to know why more isn't being done at the grassroots level ... yes, we have spokes-groups working on it too, but we can't just sit back and wait for them to do it, we need to be just as active.

[*Darcy*]

You never know, that might be all that some people can actually provide to the cause.

btw - i think there's more that anyone could do than just writing letters ... how many meetings did everyone go to? how many protests/rallys would you go to if they were organized? would you HELP organize somethign like this?

but be honest and dont play the "dont have money to go to that stuff" angle, because if you can show up for a ride somewhere, then you can show up to do what needs to be done to keep these places open.

[GOT COPE?]

Starting an agrument on this board is not going to make any positive impact on the situation. Yeah, I've talked to Danny about this several times too. Actually alot of us have. We all know the status of Tellico. It's nothing new. But instead of jumping on and starting a thread about how mad you are trying to make everybody, provide some ideas to make the situation better and certainly don't tell other people that it's too late to write a letter. You never know, that might be all that some people can actually provide to the cause.

If all you can do is write a letter you shouldnt be wheeling. There is no excuse for not being able to do more. Dont get me wrong we are going to continually need letters, but a letter here and there shouldnt make anyone feel like they are doing enough.

If anything you should show you're a wheeler and educate anyone every chance you get.
We need more people who think like we do and understand our sport and accept it's impacts.

So driving through a creek has a bad environmental impact?

So does driving to work everyday! And there is a lot more people doing that!

Everyone has thousands into their truck here and could at the least donate a good share of that to save the very trails we ride on.

I'm on the same page as Derrick, but not quite ready to go that far.

The point is, obviously trail clean-ups and adopting trails doesn't save them. It hasnt yet. And the letters obviously arent reaching the right people.

So what we are trying to create here is new thinking, new ideas. Our past strategies haven't worked and it's ridiculous to continue them.

We need people with big checkbooks on our side. rather than accepting a $500 raffle item for a save the trails fundraiser from company "X" we need company "X" to be writing $5000 or $50000 checks to the right people. Whether it's a Congressman's political fund, or lawyers in court to fight the greenies.
Obviously my $300 donation didnt help much, and I didnt see anyone else here donate. Even if we all donated $300 it would amount to nothing. We need big money we need to show the companies that survive off of our sport that we're pissed off and they are going to go down with us if they dont help us.

It's absolutely disgusting to me that huge companies (especially Toyota) have not done anything to help us. They all use the off-road image to sell their product but they don't want to turn around and keep their customers wheeling?
We need to start bitching and boycotting the large companies until they take notice and help or help more than they already have.

Toyota
Daimler-Chrysler
Ford
GM
BFG
4WheelParts (FTR is a $150,000,000 a year company and under the TransAmericanAutoParts name is comprised of 4wheelparts, 4wd.com, Smittybuilt, Pro Comp, and Performance Products)
WARN
Goodyear
ARB
and anymore you can think of.

A lot of us spend most if not all of our paychecks on our hobby and these companies that profit do nothing in return to help save the areas we enjoy.

It's really moronic on their part as they will have no business with us one day when there is no place left to ride.

There are other things we need to do to get us in the public eye.

But to reiterate, writing a letter and then saying awe shucks when the trail is closed, over and over is BS. That's like sticking with stock D44 shafts after they break over and over and expecting something different each time. We need to change our tactics.

[crawlrunner]

Careful. I'm writing letters untill somebody comes up with something else. Do not discourage it. It can't be worse than bitchin on line & doing nuthing. And I'll wheel whenever I want. And I never say aww shucks. What are U actually doing to help?

We should set up a protest/park-in to disrupt the logging & paving process at Tellico. We can notify the media for coverage and expose the hypocritical beauracratic situation that's going on out there. What the hell. I'm off probation let's get arrested!

According to you, y'all should have a big protest at Truckfest too and everybody should get kicked out or arrested and the media should be on hand there too.

WTF jump off my case & get busy ... actually doin something MR Prez & 1st lady! We'll help.

[*Darcy*]

write your letters! write them every day! write one and make a million copies and mail one each day to everyone you can think of!

something is better than nothing -- we're just opening up this discussion to figure out the "WHAT ELSE" that needs to be done!!

[1moreyota]

We need people with big checkbooks on our side. rather than accepting a $500 raffle item for a save the trails fundraiser from company "X" we need company "X" to be writing $5000 or $50000 checks to the right people. Whether it's a Congressman's political fund, or lawyers in court to fight the greenies.
Obviously my $300 donation didnt help much, and I didnt see anyone else here donate. Even if we all donated $300 it would amount to nothing. We need big money we need to show the companies that survive off of our sport that we're pissed off and they are going to go down with us if they dont help us.

It's absolutely disgusting to me that huge companies (especially Toyota) have not done anything to help us. They all use the off-road image to sell their product but they don't want to turn around and keep their customers wheeling?
We need to start bitching and boycotting the large companies until they take notice and help or help more than they already have.

Toyota
Daimler-Chrysler
Ford
GM
BFG
4WheelParts (FTR is a $150,000,000 a year company and under the TransAmericanAutoParts name is comprised of 4wheelparts, 4wd.com, Smittybuilt, Pro Comp, and Performance Products)
WARN
Goodyear
ARB
and anymore you can think of.

A lot of us spend most if not all of our paychecks on our hobby and these companies that profit do nothing in return to help save the areas we enjoy.

It's really moronic on their part as they will have no business with us one day when there is no place left to ride.

There are other things we need to do to get us in the public eye.

But to reiterate, writing a letter and then saying awe shucks when the trail is closed, over and over is BS. That's like sticking with stock D44 shafts after they break over and over and expecting something different each time. We need to change our tactics.


Good ideas Colin. We could also look at improving public awareness. I think most outdoor oriented folks would be pissed if they realized what was going on. I wasn't living in GA at the time, but I remember hearing many, many great stories about the convoy to help save Rich Mountain. Here are a couple of other ideas:
-Convoy along 441 and I-40 from the Clayton Ranger Station to the District Station in Asheville.
-Have an informal convoy on the public roads at Caney Fork...back and forth...all day long...during logging operations. The loggers will love us!
-Gather at a 4wd shop/Bass Pro Shops etc and try to draw public attention.
-Put together a benefit concert, offroad rally, or some other type of event.

What ever it is, we need to have local, regional, and even national media show up and cover it/them.

We also need to look at other groups that are impacted by Forest Service closures and try to form alliances with them...national organizations and local clubs alike: hikers, mountain bikers, anyone affected by the FS' tunnel vision.

[rcfdfighter]

Careful. I'm writing letters untill somebody comes up with something else. Do not discourage it. It can't be worse than bitchin on line & doing nuthing. And I'll wheel whenever I want. And I never say aww shucks. What are U actually doing to help?

We should set up a protest/park-in to disrupt the logging & paving process at Tellico. We can notify the media for coverage and expose the hypocritical beauracratic situation that's going on out there. What the hell. I'm off probation let's get arrested!

According to you, y'all should have a big protest at Truckfest too and everybody should get kicked out or arrested and the media should be on hand there too.

WTF jump off my case & get busy ... actually doin something MR Prez & 1st lady! We'll help.

Seriously, What the hell, Im off probation lets get arrested is the funniest thing ive read all day.

[*Darcy*]

Careful. I'm writing letters untill somebody comes up with something else. Do not discourage it. It can't be worse than bitchin on line & doing nuthing. And I'll wheel whenever I want. And I never say aww shucks. What are U actually doing to help?

We should set up a protest/park-in to disrupt the logging & paving process at Tellico. We can notify the media for coverage and expose the hypocritical beauracratic situation that's going on out there. What the hell. I'm off probation let's get arrested!

According to you, y'all should have a big protest at Truckfest too and everybody should get kicked out or arrested and the media should be on hand there too.

WTF jump off my case & get busy ... actually doin something MR Prez & 1st lady! We'll help.


ed! we're not discouraging it!

we're just trying to open the discussion, to get everyone thinking... talking...DOING....we're trying to get ideas flowing, trying to figure out what else we CAN do rather than just sitting around.

i understand this is an emotional issue, but we have to stick together... we spend too much time bitching at eachother rather than bitching at the FS!



We're not just bitching online, we're making plans, thinking, organizing, and brainstorming. we're asking for everyone's help, we're trying to get everyone on the same page.

BUT it shouldn't be just us who get things started -- the "we'll help" attitude is great, but its got to be EVERYONE who initiates the change! yes, we're all busy, but if this stuff is important to you, then make it a priority!

[*Darcy*]

Good ideas Colin. We could also look at improving public awareness. I think most outdoor oriented folks would be pissed if they realized what was going on. I wasn't living in GA at the time, but I remember hearing many, many great stories about the convoy to help save Rich Mountain. Here are a couple of other ideas:

-Convoy along 441 and I-40 from the Clayton Ranger Station to the District Station in Asheville.
-Have an informal convoy on the public roads at Caney Fork...back and forth...all day long...during logging operations. The loggers will love us!
-Gather at a 4wd shop/Bass Pro Shops etc and try to draw public attention.
-Put together a benefit concert, offroad rally, or some other type of event.

MOST IMPORTANTLY!What ever it is, we need to have local, regional, and even national media show up and cover it/them.

We also need to look at other groups that are impacted by Forest Service closures and try to form alliances with them...national organizations and local clubs alike: hikers, mountain bikers, anyone affected by the FS' tunnel vision.

THIS is what we're looking for ... have an idea? TELL US!

[*Darcy*]

BY THE WAY - Southern Four Wheel Drive Association's Quarterly Meeting is the weekend Following SETO in the SAME PLACE. we're going to make it, hell or high water. WHO ELSE IS IN?

The Damn Locals 4x4 Club will be hosting SFWDA 3RD Quarterly Meeting again this year @ the Tracy City Elementary School. Meeting should start at 9:00 AM and last till around 11:00 AM.

September 12th 2009

DIRECTIONS (http://maps.google.com/maps?li=d&hl=en&f=d&daddr=276+3rd+St,+Tracy+City,+TN+37387-5014+(Tracy+City+Elementary+Lnchrm)&geocode=CcWSNiGkEWrnFRX5GQIdF5Pj-g&dq=tracy+city,+tn+elementary+school&cid=8253669499889485015&ei=miaTSuW3MYi69QSD8ujRAg&ie=UTF8&z=16)

[*Darcy*]

want to send letters?? heres a list of people you can bother!

http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/about/forestContacts.php?p=1.1.9.1

Regional Directory

The Southern Region includes the following states:

Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, North
Carolina, Oklahoma, Puerto Rico, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Virgin Islands,
and Virginia;

1720 Peachtree Road NW, Atlanta, GA 30309
Hours: 7:30 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. EST
E-mail Address: Mailroom R8@fs.fed.us

REGIONAL FORESTER’S OFFICE

Elizabeth Agpaoa, Regional Forester, 404-347-4177
Ken Arney, Deputy Regional Forester, State and Private Forestry
Jerome Thomas, Deputy Regional Forester, Natural Resources
Mary Morris, Deputy Regional Forester, Operations
Silvia Ramirez, Executive Assistant
Renai Artis, Executive Staff Assistant


Office of the General Counsel
1718 Peachtree Road NW, Suite 576, Atlanta, GA 30309,
Fax: 404-347-1065, 404-347-1060


Law Enforcement and Investigations
Special Agent In Charge ... Steven F Ruppert, 404-347-4182
1720 Peachtree Rd., NW, Atlanta, GA 30367

Civil Rights
Debra Harrell-Wilfred, Director, 404-347-1628

Public Affairs
Stephanie N. Johnson, Director, 404-347-7226

Employment Complaints Program Unit
(WO Civil Rights, Atlanta Service Center)
Claudian Fort, 404-347-1908, Fax: 404-347-1931, TDD: 404-347-0149

Early Intervention Program (EIP)
Combined Eastern Leadership Team (CELT) Atlanta, GA
Program Manager…Rudy Cadney, 404-347-0141

Forest Management Timber
Roger W. Williams, Director, 404-347-7396

Biological and Physical Resources Unit
Jim Fenwood, Director, 404-347-7397

Planning Unit
Chris Leggett, Director, 404-347-3183

Recreation/Wilderness/Heritage/Interpretation
Ann Christensen, Director, 404-347-2479

Resource Information Management (RIM)
Andrew Colaninno, Director, 404-347-3989

Lands, Minerals & Uses Unit
Thurman Harp, Director, 404-347-2686

Engineering
Randy Warbington, Director, 404-347-7395

Operations Administrative Support and Budget Unit
Maria Laboy, Staff Assistant, DRF-OPS/ENG/REC, 404-347-3042

Budget and Financial Management
Terry Cooper, Director, 404-347-4906

Procurement and Property Unit
Anthony Love... Director, 404-347-2597

Fire and Aviation Unit
Dan Olsen, Director, 404-347-3464


Southern Area Coordination Center (SACC)
1200 Ashwood Parkway, Suite 230, Atlanta, GA 30338, Fax: 678-320-3036.
Coordination Center Manager…Vacant, 678-320-3001

Forest Health Protection Unit
Wesley Nettleton, Director, 404-347-2719

Forest Health Protection Unit – Alexandria Field Office
Field Office Representative…Forrest Oliveria, 318-473-7294

Forest Health Protection Unit – Asheville Office
Field Office Representative…William A. Carothers, 828-257-4321


Cooperative Forestry
Wes Nettleton, (Acting) Director, 404-347-7200

Cooperative Forestry Staff at National Tree Seed Laboratory
Robert P. Karrfalt, Director, 478-751-4134

GEORGIA
Chattahoochee and Oconee National Forests

Forest Supervisor, George Bain
1755 Cleveland Highway, Gainesville, GA 30501
Phone: 770-297-3000, Fax: 770-297-3025; Email:
Mailroom R8 Chattahoochee;

Paul Bradley, Deputy Forest Supervisor
Evelyn Hernandez, Secretary
Karen McKenzie, Public Affairs and Planning Staff Officer
Ray Ellis, Natural Resources Staff Officer
Larry Lucket, Recreation and Engineering Staff Officer
Terry Stolz, Lands and Fire Staff Officer

Conasauga Ranger District
Michele Jones , District Ranger
3941 Highway 76, Chatsworth, GA 30705
706-695-6736; Fax: 706-695-1872

Blue Ridge Ranger District
Alan Polk, District Ranger
1881 Highway 515, P.O. Box 9, Blairsville, GA 30514,
706-745-6928, Fax: 706-745-7494

Chattooga River Ranger District
David W. Jensen, District Ranger
809 Highway 441S, Clayton, GA 30525
706-782-3320; Fax:706-782-2079

Oconee Ranger District:
Erin Bronk, District Ranger
1199 Madison Road, Eatonton, GA 31024,
706-485-3180; Fax: 706-485-7141

North Carolina

Marisue Hilliard, Forest Supervisor
160A Zillicoa Street, P.O. Box 2750, Asheville, NC 28802
Phone: 828-257-4200, Fax: 828-257-4263

Monica Schwalbach, Deputy Forest Supervisor
Sherry Fisher, Staff Asst.
Vacant, Ecosystems, Fire, and Forests
Lynn Hicks, Engineering, Hertiage, and Recreation.
Terry Seyden, Public Affairs & SPF
Mary Noel, Planning, Lands, Survery, and GIS
Cheryl Chrisman, Business Operations
Email: Mailroom R8 North Carolina

Appalachian Ranger District:
Vacant, District Ranger
P.O. Box 128, Hot Springs, NC 28743,
828-622-3202

Hot Springs Office
P.O. Box 128, Burnsville, NC 28714
828-682-6146

Croatan Ranger District:
Lauren L. Hillman, District Ranger
141 E. Fisher Ave., New Bern, NC 28560
252-638-5628

Cheoah Ranger District
Frank Findley, Asst District Ranger
1133 Massey Branch Rd., Robbinsville, NC 28771
828-479-6431

Grandfather Ranger District
Joy Malone, District Ranger
109 East Lawing Drive, Nebo, NC 28761
828-652-2144

Nantahala Ranger District
Mike Wilkins, District Ranger
90 Sloan Road, Franklin, NC 28734

Pisgah Ranger District
Randall Burgess, District Ranger
1001 Pisgah Hwy., Pisgah Forest, NC 28768
828-877-3265

Tusquitee Ranger District
Vacant, District Ranger
123 Woodland Drive, Murphy, NC 28906
828-837-5152

Uwharrie Ranger District:
Deborah Walker, District Ranger
789 NC24/27E, Troy, NC 27371
910-576-6391

Cradle of Forestry in America
Michael Milosch, Director
828-877-3130

TENNESSEE
Cherokee National Forest

H. Thomas (Tom) Speaks, Jr., Forest Supervisor
2800 N. Ocoee Street, Cleveland, TN 37312
Phone: 423-476-9700, TDD: 423-476-7939, Fax: 423-476-9754

Leslie Auriemmo, Deputy Forest Supervisor
Jo Ann McGee, Executive Assistant (however I’m not a GS-12)
Susan Shaw, Resources, Planning, Lands and Minerals
Keith Sandifer, Fire and Vegetation Management
Terry Pierce, Technical Services
Terry McDonald, Public Services
Email: Mailroom R8 Cherokee

Nolichucky/Unaka Ranger District
Terry Bowerman, District Ranger
4900 Asheville Hwy., SR70 Greeneville, TN 37743,
423-638-4109

Ocoee/ Hiwassee Ranger District
Monte Williams, District Ranger
3171 Hwy. 64, Benton, TN 37307
423-338-3300

Tellico Ranger District
Keith Lannom, District Ranger
250 Ranger Station Rd., Tellico Plains, TN 37385
423-253-8400

Watauga Ranger District
VACANT, District Ranger
P.O. Box 400, Unicoi, TN 37692
423-735-1500

[*Darcy*]

interesting information ---

http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/rrac/

Southern Region Recreation Resource Advisory Committee (RRAC)

The Southern Region Recreation Resource Advisory Committee (RAC) is a citizen's advisory committee that makes recommendations on creating new or changing existing recreation fees managed by the Forest Service in Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, and the territory of Puerto Rico.

The Southern Region Recreation RAC is authorized under the Federal Lands Recreation Enhancement Act, which was signed into law in December 2004. More information, including the Recreation RAC's charter and how to apply to a Recreation RAC in the future, can be found on the National Recreation RAC web page.


Category 1 - Five people who represent recreation users and that include, as appropriate, camping, wildlife viewing/visiting interpretive sites, motorized recreation, non-motorized recreation, hunting and fishing.

Taylor Stein Camping
Bill Alexander Wildlife Viewing/Visiting Interpretive Sites
Jack Terrell Motorized Recreation
Morgan Sommerville Non-Motorized Recreation
Ron Fox Hunting and Fishing


Category 2 - Three people who represent, as appropriate, two outfitters and guides (two members) and local environmental groups.
Hilda Morales Outfitter/Guide
Larry Mashburn Outfitter/Guide
Brett Paben Local Environmental


Category 3 - Three people who are: (1) a state tourism official representing the state, (2) a representative of affected Indian Tribes, and (3) a representative of affected local government interests.
Betty Huskins State Tourism
James Smith Tribal
Gail Wright Local Government


email link::: r8_rrac@fs.fed.us

who is Jack Terrell and how well is he representing us?!

[*Darcy*]

here's where NOTICES of public comment are posted ... let me tell you how hard it was to navigate to this page :mad: and once you get there, its even harder to decipher what the heck you're supposed to do!

http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#home


apparently, any "federal agenda" is supposed to be posted here:

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/fr/

somebody please tell me if you can figure out what the heck you're supposed to do .. and how you're supposed to know if public comment is being sought on something.

these gov't websites are terrible!

[crolison]

blah blah blah blah

[GOT COPE?]

blah blah blah

[tlh89]

Thought i would throw my 2 cents in..

I know your all goin to flame away on this, but its the truth, whether you accept it or not. IMO i think we should quit wasting our time and money on the govt land. Just look back at what we've lost in only the past year. There was alot of money and effort put into saving places, mainly Tellico. I cant really say much as its only been the past year or so since ive started wheeling. I did write a few letters but that was it. SO if you wanna donate money, or spend some time doin trail cleanup/work, go to one of the many private parks we're lucky to have. The owners there actually care about what WE want. They arent going to close the gates and start logging anytime soon

[crolison]

blah blah blah

[GOT COPE?]

blah blah blah

[GOT COPE?]

Thought i would throw my 2 cents in..

I know your all goin to flame away on this, but its the truth, whether you accept it or not. IMO i think we should quit wasting our time and money on the govt land. Just look back at what we've lost in only the past year. There was alot of money and effort put into saving places, mainly Tellico. I cant really say much as its only been the past year or so since ive started wheeling. I did write a few letters but that was it. SO if you wanna donate money, or spend some time doin trail cleanup/work, go to one of the many private parks we're lucky to have. The owners there actually care about what WE want. They arent going to close the gates and start logging anytime soon

Thats a good point and many people feel that way, but there is no private park where you can get away from civilization like you can at Tellico and Cu!!owhee and even then those two places can't touch anything out west.

But thats why they are worth saving.

[Derka]

I agree going to private parks is fun, and yes, the owners care a lot more about what the wheelers want rather than the FS or environmentalist, but riding and exploring national forest land a much better experience to some folks.

It's like paying to ride the same rides at six flags. Don't get me wrong, i don't mind paying to ride private parks, but at the end of the day they're the same old rides. I like exploring new terrain and seeing things that most people haven't seen before...its not always about the wheeling.

[*Darcy*]

Thought i would throw my 2 cents in..

I know your all goin to flame away on this, but its the truth, whether you accept it or not. IMO i think we should quit wasting our time and money on the govt land. Just look back at what we've lost in only the past year. There was alot of money and effort put into saving places, mainly Tellico. I cant really say much as its only been the past year or so since ive started wheeling. I did write a few letters but that was it. SO if you wanna donate money, or spend some time doin trail cleanup/work, go to one of the many private parks we're lucky to have. The owners there actually care about what WE want. They arent going to close the gates and start logging anytime soon

no reason to flame, we are (hopefully) capable of having a discussion here :)

i definitely understand, and to some extent agree with your point of view on OHV & Designated Trails

(( But, i'm thinking that this is bigger than just the few designated areas that we have. I'm talking about all of the public land that we SHOULD have access to and don't. ))

Private parks are great, you get there, wheel, and dont have to worry about anything. for the most part, you know where you're guna camp, you have a map, you can get to civilization in 30 minutes or less if you needed to.... but once you run that park's trails, thats it. You know the way around, you know what to expect, you've been there and done that. but still, they're great and usually a lot of fun.

but...


there is no private park where you can get away from civilization like you can at Tellico and Cu!!owhee

thats why they are worth saving.

I like exploring new terrain and seeing things that most people haven't seen before...its not always about the wheeling.

these two statements sum it up.... we're not talking about extreme wheeling, we're talking about all of those FS roads that are being cut off "just because" ... there are places in the Nat'l Forest that you used to be able to go for a ride and disappear for a day (or more if you wanted!) ... i've spent countless hours/days riding the FS roads from NC to GA and back again ... seeing what there is to see, spending time away from the computer and hassle of everyday life. You come across old thigns that you otherwise might have never known was there, thats the cool part.


its not always about the wheeling...

thats why they are worth saving...

[*Darcy*]

things to see off random forest service roads, if they decide to cut off access to this, then what?

i have thousands of photos of places that we've just stopped, pulled off the road, and saw what there was to see. i dont know about you, but just this past weekend, we passed more than 25 gated FS roads ... who knows where they went or what was at the other end, but ya know, i'd like to be able to find out if i wanted. Who's to say we cant? and why do they think they have a right to??

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v166/230/75/46700804/n46700804_31688268_5602.jpg

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v166/230/75/46700804/n46700804_31688275_7500.jpg

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v166/230/75/46700804/n46700804_31688270_6143.jpg

sometimes, FS roads do provide a bit of wheeling :)
http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs173.snc1/6500_572715571708_46700804_33459824_964433_n.jpg

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs193.snc1/6500_572715556738_46700804_33459821_4489238_n.jpg

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v143/230/75/46700804/n46700804_31560944_8559.jpg

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v143/230/75/46700804/n46700804_31560955_1073.jpg

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v143/230/75/46700804/n46700804_31560962_2682.jpg

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v307/230/75/46700804/n46700804_32299105_9326.jpg

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v307/230/75/46700804/n46700804_32299088_3738.jpg


keep closing FS roads, and we'll lose the freedom to find and enjoy places like these.

[tkinze]

It's good to have these debates so I wanted to add one more thought in all of this if you don't mind.

The fight for public lands is important for may reasons. We must fight not just to re-open the public lands such as Tellico and Whee but to establish a precedent. Today the focus by the antis is to shut down public lands but it's inevitable that the private parks will come under attack. The arguments will be the same and the Clean Water Act will be used. Their argument will be drainage issues from (this time) private parks into public streams just like in Tellico. Don't blink, this is coming!

So, what to do about it become the next question.

[GOT COPE?]

So, what to do about it become the next question.

-Popularizing off-roading. Giving it an acceptable image. Killing fish with a hook and pole is acceptable why not off-roading?

-Boycotting the companies that thrive off of our sport until they join the fight full fledged with their checkbooks open. We need more money than we can possibly collect from these stingy off-roaders. Let's dip into the profits they make off of us.

-Get mainstream celebrities from movies to sports wheeling and publicized.
Think Ted Nugent. If celebrities wheel then it must be ok.

-Take a politician, or an anti, or just anyone who doesnt wheel wheeling.
We need as many people exposed to our sport as possible. In a good light of course. Whether it's an extreme trip or an easy trip, explain along the ride what we do to minimize our impact, tread lightly, stay on the trail, pack it out, etc.

[Alan11116]

-

-Boycotting the companies that thrive off of our sport until they join the fight full fledged with their checkbooks open. We need more money than we can possibly collect from these stingy off-roaders. Let's dip into the profits they make off of us.

I'm all about this idea but is there a way to know who supports and who doesn't? Fill me in if you know.

[*Darcy*]

I'm all about this idea but is there a way to know who supports and who doesn't? Fill me in if you know.

IMO - if a company provides products that we use ... then they could be a "target" of ours to petition

arb - who would buy their bumpers/lockers/etc if we have no place to wheel?

bfg - who would buy 35+ tires if they're not used for offroading?

etc etc

[GOT COPE?]

I can find a list but it may be later tonight.

It's pretty simple though, none of them are doing enough.

BFG and 4WheelParts and OMIX-ADA would be my top 3 targets.

Omix-ADA now owns Alloy USA as you may know, also Precision Gear.
When I worked for them they were a $20mil company. Small beans compared to TransAmerican (4wp) but with the acquisition of Alloy and Precision Im sure they are bringing in more, but still not comparable to TransAmerican.

And BFG sponsors tons of teams in many forms of off-road competition. They wouldnt do that if it werent profitable to them. They obviously make a good bit off of their off-road tires. They need to give back. Much more than they already do with their "outstanding trail" program or whatever they call it.

[1moreyota]

I was thinking that this might be a good place to poke around, ask vendors some questions, and possibly make some connections:

http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=139267

[tacoma_AL]

i've spent 8 hours on a plane waiting to get off at Atl im a little pissed right now so bare with me please. I love wheeling just as much as all of yall do im sure of that. My main concern with boycotting is this......its gonna have to be a mass effort, as in get everyone on ttora at once to boycott, because as she said we are tens of thousands of ppl, and that will make them take notice. But at the same time i doubt that would happen. maybe if we say get the GA chapter to boycott then NC will see understand then start boycotting then Ala, then TN, then Ky, etc etc. its like starting a fire you cant just throw it all together and hope for a huge fire(or maybe you can)......but it can also backfire just as bad to. you boycott these companies, they lose money, they go out of business and we can't get money from them to support our cause then we single handly destroyed the offroading market.

you all have great points but like several have stated tis time to step above writing letters and get the medias attention. Hell lets make a commercial or somthing. even though i agree im tired of just spinning my wheels here and getting no where with all this, but yet if the big boys in the govt get there way its to late.

Ive been in alaska for the last well long ass time and i can say the wheeling up there is deffintly going on strong and i come back here to the south and there is no where to go. going from going where you want offroad and exloring to park hoping here is just fing horrible. its time to fight. light some fire under everyones ass that like to wheel and lets start somthing big, reallly reallly realllllly big. I NEED TO WHEEL DAMNIT.

[GOT COPE?]

.....but it can also backfire just as bad to. you boycott these companies, they lose money, they go out of business and we can't get money from them to support our cause then we single handly destroyed the offroading market.



Putting a couple out of business would get other companies attention fer sure. Not a bad thing.

[*Darcy*]

.... we can't get money from them to support our cause then we single handly destroyed the offroading market. ....



OR ... we could let the FS continue as they are ... they're doing a fine job of this for us. :mad:

[tacoma_AL]

Putting a couple out of business would get other companies attention fer sure. Not a bad thing.

Yes very true, didn't think of it like that. Maybe it is time to start boycotting as soon as BFG delivers on my tires if they ever do

OR ... we could let the FS continue as they are ... they're doing a fine job of this for us. :mad:

Yea they are i agree...and im just gonna tell you i have no idea on what to do about it, besides writing letters and signing petitions and i've given up on that.

[crawlrunner]

I hear crickets chirping. What a lonely thread.

Anyway I joined SFWDA & wrote my damn letters FWIW. C'mon peeps! I'm also considering registering for thier Dixi Run at Golden Mtn. I've heard nothing but good stuff about this place.

[92toyota]

im angry

[VSU_4runnin]

Heres another way to help, saw this on YT.
http://www.yotatech.com/f139/moab-might-gone-forever-192861/

I clicked on one at the top about protecting 24 mil. acres from OHV restriction,
the link this is about is towards the bottom of the AMA page the 3rd post? says where on the page it is

[1moreyota]

Heres another way to help, saw this on YT.
http://www.yotatech.com/f139/moab-might-gone-forever-192861/

I clicked on one at the top about protecting 24 mil. acres from OHV restriction,
the link this is about is towards the bottom of the AMA page the 3rd post? says where on the page it is

Unbelievable, what a bunch of retards. I can't believe that we actually pay these a-holes' salaries. They've probably never been to Utah...because they got sidetracked in the bathroom at Dulles International Airport and spent the next week snorting Viagra and slobberin' over Jimmy Dean's sausage.

I'm angry too.

[gregers05]

Unbelievable, what a bunch of retards. I can't believe that we actually pay these a-holes' salaries. They've probably never been to Utah...because they got sidetracked in the bathroom at Dulles International Airport and spent the next week snorting Viagra and slobberin' over Jimmy Dean's sausage.

I'm angry too.

btw here is maurice hinchey's facebook profile:D

http://www.facebook.com/MauriceHinchey?_fb_noscript=1