: Why Aren't You Involved?


Mike
08-23-2005, 10:02 PM
To the people here who wheel, but don't belong to any trail organizations, donate money, or donate time to worthy causes:

What's your excuse?

Writing letters and sending emails is just about free.

Attending a trail cleanup, work weekend, or organized protest is a small sacrifice.

If you can afford $3 a gallon to fill up, probably much more on beer and food, how come you can't spend a few bucks to help keep trails open?

Later,
....Mike

TOYMINATOR
08-23-2005, 11:05 PM
I personally am members of:

Texas Motorized Trail Coalition (TMTC)
United Four Wheel Drive Association (UFWDA)
Blue Ribbon Coalition (BRC)

GOT COPE?
08-23-2005, 11:15 PM
SFWDA
UFWDA
soon to be BRC

GOT COPE?
08-23-2005, 11:16 PM
And no I really cant afford the gas :( Missed the last trip b/c of it.

cedarbarn
08-23-2005, 11:23 PM
I support,and am a paying member of...

Blue Ribbon Coalition
Tread Lightly
TMTC

ShowStop
08-23-2005, 11:25 PM
See my sig...

Mike
08-24-2005, 12:13 AM
I think the main problem is that lots of people have no idea what is going on in the background and when they find out it's usually too late to do anything about it.

Here in CA we are currently getting bent over by the USDA Forest Service. Eldorado National Forest is the first to implement new restrictions because of a lawsuit brought by environmental groups, although all forests have been scheduled to do the same thing in the near future.

The actions being taken have led to hundreds of miles of trails becoming off-limits.

I encourage everyone to read, learn, get pissed off, and do something about it. I am not going to stand by and peacefully watch the places I love become closed to motorized recreation.

ENF employees have quietly watched small issues slowly turn into huge disasters without doing a thing. They like to set us up to fail. Instead of properly managing OHV trails, they let things get out of control and then simply close the area.

It's our land, and we are entitled to use it in a responsible manner. If we don't do anything, we will lose it all.

Here is what prompted my rant....

The NorCal TTORA chapter has 518 members. A whole whopping 6 people showed up for the Rubicon work weekend. It was made clear to everyone that anyone who needed a ride would get one, yet we had empty seats. This leads me to believe that very few people actually give a shit.

From now on I expect to see some support out on the trail. A CA4WDC sticker. A BRC sticker. A Tread Lightly sticker. A TLCA sticker. A FOTR sticker. Something to show that you actually deserve to be using the awesome trails we have here in CA.

Later,
....Mike

HappyPills
08-24-2005, 12:39 AM
To the people here who wheel, but don't belong to any trail organizations, donate money, or donate time to worthy causes:

What's your excuse?

No job at all... My health isn't great, long story... No friends... Everyone where I live has a stick up there arse. If your caught on someone else's land you will be threatened at gun point or arrested. And no, asking them nicely to use there land, promiseing not to trash it and offering them money doesn't work...

I also hate and I mean hate being around a bunch of people.

I got more if you want to know.

Basicly i've been alone my whole life. If I go offroading I have to go alone.

Again, I have more if you want.

Thats my excuse.

hawaiianbro
08-24-2005, 12:41 AM
Shesh you sure lay the guilt trip on people who haven't done much!

lol, i'm still very much a n00b to tacoma territory and 4-wheeling in general (lol i actually crashed my rice burner and my friend from pirate4x4 convinced me to get a truck.....best decision so far in my life!).

Is there an organization that I should start with first? I'll definetly be at the next trail cleanup....as long as I have a seat to hop in with, which is sounds like I probably will.

I think i'm going to join Tread Lightly and CA4WDC

Kaleo

BTW, thanks for spanking me to get a move on it!

HappyPills
08-24-2005, 12:45 AM
Shesh you sure lay the guilt trip on people who haven't done much!

lol, i'm still very much a n00b to tacoma territory and 4-wheeling in general (lol i actually crashed my rice burner and my friend from pirate4x4 convinced me to get a truck.....best decision so far in my life!).

Is there an organization that I should start with first? I'll definetly be at the next trail cleanup....as long as I have a seat to hop in with, which is sounds like I probably will.

I think i'm going to join Tread Lightly and CA4WDC

Kaleo

BTW, thanks for spanking me to get a move on it!

I don't mean too, its just the truth. He asked, "What's your excuse," so I just told him mine.

Mike
08-24-2005, 12:50 AM
Shesh you sure lay the guilt trip on people who haven't done much!

Add up the amount of time you have spent fucking around on the internet.

Seriously, tell me how many hours a day that amounts to. Spend 15 minutes writing a letter to one of our elected criminals explaining how you are a taxpayer and that you vote and that you won't be voting for them next year because they don't support OHV recreation in National Forests.

It's easier than you think. If you guys need a list of people for sending nasty emails and letters, I can get you one!

As far as laying a guilt trip, anyone who gives a shit about wheeling would already know this stuff, how's that for a guilt trip? :D

Most legit CA four wheel drive clubs require paid membership which includes funds that are donated to CA4WDC, etc. TTORA is free, so we end up with a bunch of freeloading web wheelers who only like to see their name on a web page.

Bob and I have decided to change the membership rules. If we haven't seen you on a trail run or other event in the last couple years, you aren't a member!

Later,
....Mike

hytenor
08-24-2005, 12:50 AM
Shesh you sure lay the guilt trip on people who haven't done much!

lol, i'm still very much a n00b to tacoma territory and 4-wheeling in general (lol i actually crashed my rice burner and my friend from pirate4x4 convinced me to get a truck.....best decision so far in my life!).

Is there an organization that I should start with first? I'll definetly be at the next trail cleanup....as long as I have a seat to hop in with, which is sounds like I probably will.

I think i'm going to join Tread Lightly and CA4WDC

Kaleo

BTW, thanks for spanking me to get a move on it!

joint CA4WDC! good group and 'In Gear' has lots of good info and suggestions on what to do.

and hey, we picked up a bunch of trash on our trip ;)

hawaiianbro
08-24-2005, 12:51 AM
I don't mean too, its just the truth. He asked, "What's your excuse," so I just told him mine.

mmmmm ok? :confused:

hawaiianbro
08-24-2005, 12:52 AM
and hey, we picked up a bunch of trash on our trip ;)

NO YOU DID!!! I was trying to find some but you had the eye of a hawk looking for mice! When you got out I was like.....how in the hell did he see that?! :confused:

lol k i'm signing up now for CA4WDC

hytenor
08-24-2005, 01:07 AM
NO YOU DID!!! I was trying to find some but you had the eye of a hawk looking for mice! When you got out I was like.....how in the hell did he see that?! :confused:

lol k i'm signing up now for CA4WDC

dude, I left some for you! you telling me now that you missed them?? Damn, now I'll have to go back up there again :p

HappyPills
08-24-2005, 01:27 AM
mmmmm ok? :confused:

Sorry my miistake. I thought you were referring to my post. Its late here and i'm to tired for my brain to function properly.

Tuggs
08-24-2005, 02:05 AM
Just tried signing up for CA4WDC...server seems to be down. Anyone else having trouble bringing it up?

ShowStop
08-24-2005, 02:18 AM
Seems to be working fine for me:
http://www.cal4wheel.com/member/application.htm

tenntaco
08-24-2005, 05:35 AM
I feel for you guys. Fortunately, we haven't had to deal with near as many land issues out here, but it is starting to happen. When the shit does hit the fan, I can only hope that folks out here take a proactive stance. My g/f's little brother was over here the other day and he read a response letter that I have on my fridge from Bill Frist. He couldn't understand why I was getting letters from senators. I told him that as a red-blooded American, it's every voter's right and responsibilty to maintain communication with the lawmakers who make decisions that concern the public.

When land use becomes an issue in my neck of the woods, I'll be there. And, since I'm an off-road enthusiast who loves to enjoy trails wherever I can get my rig, I will support any endeavor that furthers our sport/hobby as a whole. I may not pay taxes out west, but I would be more than happy to send emails and letters to anyone and everyone who has anything to do with any trails that I plan on running in the future. Mileage is no boudary in my book. A trail is a trail and I hope to run them all before the day that I die. If there is anything that I can do, I am more than happy to contribute.

zosimov21
08-24-2005, 09:07 AM
I don't think as Daniel said we have quite the same issues here, but I try to do my part and pick up trash when I see it. Also there is another 4x4 club that goes out to local trails on the 1st sat of the month and if you help out you get a free day pass. Soemthing like this is always welcome.

drabnor
08-24-2005, 11:23 AM
brc member

Reebles
08-24-2005, 11:51 AM
If you guys DON'T have plans on Labor Day...come help support the Rubicon Trail by buying Dysfunctional Tacos, at the Cantina for the Con...100% of proceeds go to Friends of the Rubicon. There will also be tons of vendors there with a percentage of sales going to FOTR and raffles for products, and at night there will be wheeling videos being shown!

Loon Lake Spillway Sept 3rd and 4th!

GOT COPE?
08-24-2005, 12:38 PM
From now on I expect to see some support out on the trail. A CA4WDC sticker. A BRC sticker. A Tread Lightly sticker. A TLCA sticker. A FOTR sticker. Something to show that you actually deserve to be using the awesome trails we have here in CA.

Later,
....Mike

I figure it's the least I can do if nothing else is donate to someone who can speak for me.

snowchucker
08-25-2005, 02:35 AM
i only had $4 in my checking account........... but i still became a member of CA4wd, tread lightly, blue ribbon, and FOTR....
for everyone it isnt that expensive....like $20 a year for each, much less than a tank of gas.

hytenor
08-25-2005, 02:38 AM
i only had $4 in my checking account........... but i still became a member of CA4wd, tread lightly, blue ribbon, and FOTR....
for everyone it isnt that expensive....like $20 a year for each, much less than a tank of gas.

so you wrote bad checks to all of them?? :p

Ca4wd is $40 now but still the price of a tank of gas, LOL

send them $100 and call it even ;)

brendog84cj8
08-25-2005, 11:59 AM
To the people here who wheel, but don't belong to any trail organizations, donate money, or donate time to worthy causes:

What's your excuse?

Writing letters and sending emails is just about free.

Attending a trail cleanup, work weekend, or organized protest is a small sacrifice.

If you can afford $3 a gallon to fill up, probably much more on beer and food, how come you can't spend a few bucks to help keep trails open?

Later,
....Mike

Take in to account that not all of us live in California and dont have the personal connection to the issues at hand out there on a daily basis. As of now I am not a paying member of any of the organizations that are mentioned here frequently, which anyone is free to rip me for that if they so choose.

I can say that up here in Montana I write the law makers all the time about issues regarding OHV issues, national forest use, hunting issues, fishing issues. I pick up trash all the time when I am out and I always chew someones ass if I see them doing stupid crap when I am out wheeling. Personally I feel like I try to do my part but hate it when I get ripped because I am not a paying member of some orginization. I would love to come out to cali all the time to help with cleanups and such its just not something I can afford. I try do my part up here in Montana, so if someone wants to rip me they can. I just hope everyone realizes that we could all do more(even me), but when it comes down to it at one level or another we are all on the same team.

Ted
08-25-2005, 12:25 PM
I feel for you guys. Fortunately, we haven't had to deal with near as many land issues out here, but it is starting to happen. When the shit does hit the fan, I can only hope that folks out here take a proactive stance. My g/f's little brother was over here the other day and he read a response letter that I have on my fridge from Bill Frist. He couldn't understand why I was getting letters from senators. I told him that as a red-blooded American, it's every voter's right and responsibilty to maintain communication with the lawmakers who make decisions that concern the public.

When land use becomes an issue in my neck of the woods, I'll be there. And, since I'm an off-road enthusiast who loves to enjoy trails wherever I can get my rig, I will support any endeavor that furthers our sport/hobby as a whole. I may not pay taxes out west, but I would be more than happy to send emails and letters to anyone and everyone who has anything to do with any trails that I plan on running in the future. Mileage is no boudary in my book. A trail is a trail and I hope to run them all before the day that I die. If there is anything that I can do, I am more than happy to contribute.


Remember Telico ORV park is on Forest Service land. The only East coast patch of FS land that has decent trails. You need to keep a watch out for the groups who hate offroading.

Dick Foster
08-25-2005, 01:41 PM
Along those lines. I saw a TTORA stiker on a Taco last night that was heading up Bascom. Told the wife to speed up so I could look see who it was. He sure as hell didn't look like anybody I know or ever met so why does he have the sticker on his truck?
I think that membership should be more tightly controlled and would even be willing to pay an annual fee. In the same light, the use of TTORA logo should be as tightly controlled. There is no telling how many asshats are out there running around with a TTORA sticker on their trucks giving this club a bad rep.
How about we take this whole thing, including this board, up a notch and make it just for the folks who are active, actually do something or give a shit.

JaresTaco
08-25-2005, 02:00 PM
Along those lines. I saw a TTORA stiker on a Taco last night that was heading up Bascom. Told the wife to speed up so I could look see who it was. He sure as hell didn't look like anybody I know or ever met so why does he have the sticker on his truck?
I think that membership should be more tightly controlled and would even be willing to pay an annual fee. In the same light, the use of TTORA logo should be as tightly controlled. There is no telling how many asshats are out there running around with a TTORA sticker on their trucks giving this club a bad rep.
How about we take this whole thing, including this board, up a notch and make it just for the folks who are active, actually do something or give a shit.
mmmm...I agree : ) Whether it be a small due for a year of membership or your activity with your local TTORA chapter? maybe you can't get a sticker till you have been a member for a certain period of time or certain amount of post's but if that was the case you would have a thousand stickers!!..Not sure how to measure all that stuff though...but good idea...

Dick Foster
08-25-2005, 02:14 PM
A thousand stickers!!!! Just think of the horse power gain from that. It boggles the mind. LOL

snowchucker
08-25-2005, 02:15 PM
nah...no bad checks, its what credit cards are for.

so you wrote bad checks to all of them?? :p

Ca4wd is $40 now but still the price of a tank of gas, LOL

send them $100 and call it even ;)

AngryAndy
08-25-2005, 06:02 PM
Along those lines. I saw a TTORA stiker on a Taco last night that was heading up Bascom. Told the wife to speed up so I could look see who it was. He sure as hell didn't look like anybody I know or ever met so why does he have the sticker on his truck?
I think that membership should be more tightly controlled and would even be willing to pay an annual fee. In the same light, the use of TTORA logo should be as tightly controlled. There is no telling how many asshats are out there running around with a TTORA sticker on their trucks giving this club a bad rep.
How about we take this whole thing, including this board, up a notch and make it just for the folks who are active, actually do something or give a shit.


DICK!!!!

Once again, I agree completly with you!

I think a fee should be charged....and possibly WAIVED IF (and ONLY if) you show up on more then ONE club event per year....Meet and Greets dont count...

I dont actually GIVE A SHIT, or DO anything (as your posts says)....but I am active (in wheeling that is)...and I too have seen a couple TTORA stickers and had no idea who it was. At first, I assumed it was Ted.

Dick Foster
08-25-2005, 06:04 PM
Our agreeing on stuff is gettin kinda scarey isn't it?

AngryAndy
08-25-2005, 06:12 PM
Our agreeing on stuff is gettin kinda scarey isn't it?


Fine, I disagree with you on that....Its not scary....so there.

Oh and back ON topic....I was not a member of all the groups listed above, but about a month ago I did join two of the four...so when reading this post I didn't feel like a TOTAL asshat...

And after reading Mike's post, I have since joined the other two.

96tacolx
08-25-2005, 06:46 PM
Along those lines. I saw a TTORA stiker on a Taco last night that was heading up Bascom. Told the wife to speed up so I could look see who it was. He sure as hell didn't look like anybody I know or ever met so why does he have the sticker on his truck?
I think that membership should be more tightly controlled and would even be willing to pay an annual fee. In the same light, the use of TTORA logo should be as tightly controlled. There is no telling how many asshats are out there running around with a TTORA sticker on their trucks giving this club a bad rep.
How about we take this whole thing, including this board, up a notch and make it just for the folks who are active, actually do something or give a shit.

I agree with your thinking on this but anyone with the resources can make a TTORA sticker or have one made. Maybe a copyrighted sticker of sorts?

Dick Foster
08-25-2005, 06:53 PM
As I recall Shannon has copyrighted TTORA. Little do most folks know that almost all creative stuff is automaticlly covered by copyright, including any image that you snap with a camera.

96tacolx
08-25-2005, 07:13 PM
You are right. What I was trying to say is that any asshat can have a TTORA sticker made and go out and wreak havoc on the trails. Maybe a TTORA sticker that is somewhat similar to the BRC or UFWDA stickers. One that is a lot harder for the average joe to have made. Just a thought.

tacodab
08-25-2005, 08:24 PM
hell most of us have already given many $'s to this club one way or another.
see that damn gold truck!!! I wish I could pick the color :)
but I would pay a membership fee to make sure it is controled a little better.
would the fee go to the chapter or the national TTORA?

tacodab
08-25-2005, 08:26 PM
"The Dick in Training"
you brown nosing little mother fawker!!! LOL

tacodab
08-25-2005, 08:27 PM
DICK!!!!

Once again, I agree completly with you!

I think a fee should be charged....and possibly WAIVED IF (and ONLY if) you show up on more then ONE club event per year....Meet and Greets dont count...

I dont actually GIVE A SHIT, or DO anything (as your posts says)....but I am active (in wheeling that is)...and I too have seen a couple TTORA stickers and had no idea who it was. At first, I assumed it was Ted.


does this mean you are a mod =>http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/report.php?p=162024)

AngryAndy
08-25-2005, 08:33 PM
hell most of us have already given many $'s to this club one way or another.
see that damn gold truck!!! I wish I could pick the color :)
but I would pay a membership fee to make sure it is controled a little better.
would the fee go to the chapter or the national TTORA?


Gold truck....gold is for cheapskates...gold is gay. LOL....

My truck is red...and my wheeling truck is blue, gay blue as some old fucker calls it. Soon to be GOLD. gay gold if you ask me.

Dude....i installed that stuff yesterday....it was funny as hell rolling thru the Caldecott Tunnel on my way to work today...I just HAD to do it....fucking brake lights EVERYWHERE.

tacodab
08-25-2005, 08:38 PM
LMFAO!!!!
that is hella funny
so you found a place for the box thing "A"
what about the lights?

tacodab
08-25-2005, 08:40 PM
Gold truck....gold is for cheapskates...gold is gay. LOL....

My truck is red...and my wheeling truck is blue, gay blue as some old fucker calls it. Soon to be GOLD. gay gold if you ask me.

Dude....i installed that stuff yesterday....it was funny as hell rolling thru the Caldecott Tunnel on my way to work today...I just HAD to do it....fucking brake lights EVERYWHERE.
we need to do the strobe dance on the BR trip

AngryAndy
08-25-2005, 08:47 PM
we need to do the strobe dance on the BR trip

No, better yet....wait....

we need to NOT thread crap HERE, lets take it to another thread...how about...hmmm....project Angry.....yeah. see me there....this thread is Mike's, and he is away...if he were here, he would get angry. Plus this thread actually is WORTH something, unlike most all the other threads we can crap on.

So everyone who reads this....go donate money now to either myself via PM...or the 4 groups listed in Mikes sig......

tacodab
08-25-2005, 09:02 PM
No, better yet....wait....

we need to NOT thread crap HERE, lets take it to another thread...how about...hmmm....project Angry.....yeah. see me there....this thread is Mike's, and he is away...if he were here, he would get angry. Plus this thread actually is WORTH something, unlike most all the other threads we can crap on.

So everyone who reads this....go donate money now to either myself via PM...or the 4 groups listed in Mikes sig......

good call
damn what happend to mr angry :)

http://www.sharetrails.org/

http://www.cal4wheel.com/

http://www.treadlightly.org/

Mike needs to update his link.....Friends of the rubicon http://www.delalbright.com/Rubicon/rubicon.htm

Reebles
08-25-2005, 09:47 PM
And all should come to the RUBICON FUNDRAISER!!!!!!!!!!!

BigBadBob0
08-25-2005, 11:14 PM
I feel for you guys. Fortunately, we haven't had to deal with near as many land issues out here, but it is starting to happen. When the shit does hit the fan, I can only hope that folks out here take a proactive stance.

Learn from the mistakes we made and don't wait for things to go awry. Start solving the problem now. Work with the FS to make sure things are being managed properly.

BigBadBob0
08-25-2005, 11:43 PM
Take in to account that not all of us live in California and dont have the personal connection to the issues at hand out there on a daily basis. As of now I am not a paying member of any of the organizations that are mentioned here frequently, which anyone is free to rip me for that if they so choose.

Don't worry about the money. If you're a lazy mofo and you don't do your part by writing letters or participating on runs then you should send your checks somewhere. I'm one of the most active members in all of TTORA (ironically enough, see my post count) yet I have not donated a dime of my money to BRC, Cal4Wheel, etc. Why? Because I don't trust them. I don't see them doing anything right. Perhaps they're just spread too thin?

The only group I've seen doing things right is FOTR. I support what they're doing and how they're doing it. I have met the "trail boss" as well as many of the other members of executive management and I am very satisfied with their mission, their focus, and the way they are fighting for it.

It's not just about the money. Put your actions where your words are. Talk to people outside of the 4 wheeling community about what is going on. Talk to so-called environmentalists about what's happening to our public lands. Talk to them like a responsible land user would. Describe the work you've put into trails to control erosion, block bypasses and otherwise preserve the area. Tell them how beautiful the areas you visit with your truck are. Write your local politicians and tell them the same stories. You don't have to be complaining in the letters you write. Imagine how your letter describing a happy event would stand out against the complaints they get daily.

Doing your part isn't just about trash either. Sure we all pick up trash at camp. Some of us even stop in the middle of the trail and pick up every beer can we see. This is awesome but our efforts can't stop here. See a bypass starting to form? Drag some logs in front of it so that it becomes a less obvious path for rookies to inadvertently take. Have a friend tagging along for the trip? Make sure you teach them a few things about the environment, like how to poo in the woods.

GOT COPE?
08-25-2005, 11:55 PM
I feel for you guys. Fortunately, we haven't had to deal with near as many land issues out here, but it is starting to happen.

No offense, but we have had issues down here. Just since 2000, when I got my Taco, Georgia has lost Rich Mountain and Anderson Creek.

I went to the Save Rich Mountain Rally. Only, and I do say only, 250 rigs showed up. Southern Jeeps had hoped to get 500 to show, personally I think more than that should have. If we keep having these piss-ant turn outs, no one is going to feel bad or think anything of it. If we had the masses show up, they rethink themselves seeing how many people are against these issues.

Just recently, there was to be a meeting at Fulton? County Library (Atlanta - for you westcoasterners) to close on Anderson Creek. Basically saying "we've decided to shut it down indefinately". I couldnt talk any of the Georgia guys to come out and protest. Even if only 2 or 3 of us showed, you gotta stand up and do something. You cant bitch if you didnt do anything to prevent or stop it. Nobody thinks there vote/voice counts. It pisses me off. If everyone who thought that "my vote doesn't count" would fucking show up and do something we could make people realize just how many people really are feeling the losses.

Im at a loss. I cant do it by myself and I couldnt get any help. Im still pissed to lose Anderson, it was a gorgeous place to ride.

brendog84cj8
08-26-2005, 09:18 AM
Don't worry about the money. If you're a lazy mofo and you don't do your part by writing letters or participating on runs then you should send your checks somewhere. I'm one of the most active members in all of TTORA (ironically enough, see my post count) yet I have not donated a dime of my money to BRC, Cal4Wheel, etc. Why? Because I don't trust them. I don't see them doing anything right. Perhaps they're just spread too thin?

The only group I've seen doing things right is FOTR. I support what they're doing and how they're doing it. I have met the "trail boss" as well as many of the other members of executive management and I am very satisfied with their mission, their focus, and the way they are fighting for it.

It's not just about the money. Put your actions where your words are. Talk to people outside of the 4 wheeling community about what is going on. Talk to so-called environmentalists about what's happening to our public lands. Talk to them like a responsible land user would. Describe the work you've put into trails to control erosion, block bypasses and otherwise preserve the area. Tell them how beautiful the areas you visit with your truck are. Write your local politicians and tell them the same stories. You don't have to be complaining in the letters you write. Imagine how your letter describing a happy event would stand out against the complaints they get daily.

Doing your part isn't just about trash either. Sure we all pick up trash at camp. Some of us even stop in the middle of the trail and pick up every beer can we see. This is awesome but our efforts can't stop here. See a bypass starting to form? Drag some logs in front of it so that it becomes a less obvious path for rookies to inadvertently take. Have a friend tagging along for the trip? Make sure you teach them a few things about the environment, like how to poo in the woods.


As for being a lazy mofo and not participating in runs its not exactly affordable for me to come from Montana to participate in Norcal runs. I do all of the things that you list above, Just at this point I have not contributed to any organizations.

In regards to the issue at hand in this thread. Can someone define for me "doing your part"? Is the definition different when talking in the context of "National" vs. "Local"?

BigBadBob0
08-26-2005, 11:28 AM
In regards to the issue at hand in this thread. Can someone define for me "doing your part"? Is the definition different when talking in the context of "National" vs. "Local"?

Well how do we define "your part" at all? I feel "your part" is doing whatever you can sustain to help keep trails open. Be it constant donations, routine letter writing or consistently attending work weekends.

That definition is broad enough that whether you are on a local scale going to work weekends or a national scale writing letters you are still doing your part.

The funny thing is that if you're reading this thread you're probably already doing your part. Most webwheelers on this board never even glance at this folder.

Dick Foster
08-26-2005, 12:56 PM
:clap: :clap: :clap: Just as the old saying goes.
"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

Dick Foster
08-26-2005, 12:57 PM
What is it about Gold that you don't like, fawker? Gold is good.

Reebles
08-26-2005, 01:38 PM
I just sent out 2 emails this morning to the Forest Service :)

SKUUT
08-26-2005, 11:50 PM
Talk to people outside of the 4 wheeling community about what is going on. Talk to so-called environmentalists about what's happening to our public lands. Talk to them like a responsible land user would. Describe the work you've put into trails to control erosion, block bypasses and otherwise preserve the area.
I've wondered about this, is there or has there ever been any communication, besides "Fuck you" and "Fuck you," between 4wheeling groups and environmental groups. I mean, it couldn't hurt, especially in areas where there isn't alot of animocity between the two organizations. If there was a way the two groups could agree to communicate and express concerns, it might actually benefit everyone as a whole.

Another thing I have thought about is how supposed offroad magazines could print articles about treading lightly. The only mag. that I have seen do this is Peterson's 4Wheel & Offroad. Granted, that's the only magazine I pay attention to. However, if some of these magazines, who cater to the blinged out F350 etc. mofo's that only occasionally go in the dirt or pull of the highway and reak havok after it has rained, would encourage their readers to have respect and inform them of the implications, it would help. No guarantees that their readers would give a fuck, but it's worth a try.

Oppositeboy
08-27-2005, 12:13 AM
I've wondered about this, is there or has there ever been any communication, besides "Fuck you" and "Fuck you," between 4wheeling groups and environmental groups. I mean, it couldn't hurt, especially in areas where there isn't alot of animocity between the two organizations. If there was a way the two groups could agree to communicate and express concerns, it might actually benefit everyone as a whole.


Apparently you've never tried to talk to one...

SKUUT
08-27-2005, 01:02 AM
Apparently you've never tried to talk to one...
An organization? No, but I do have an old friend that I've talked to about such things. In Vegas, he worked as an evironmental overseer, standing out in the middle of the desert, making sure tortoises didn't get run over by earthmovers and backhoes. Now, out here in Tucson, he works as an environmental consultant, so he's definetly a "greenie"

He definetly has his prejudices and dosen't get why a truck needs to be able to crawl over boulders, but he has never notioned that a trail needs to be closed. Except for, maybe to the morons who couldn't give a shit when no one is looking and demonstrate that by driving over bushes, making unneccesary trails and leaving garbage. He himself, drives an old Cherokee out into the desert on mostly tame trails. One point that he has brought up, is that at least there are two groups who are opposed to over development. Such as, commercial and residential property encroaching on pristene, fucking gorgeous wilderness.

BigBadBob0
08-27-2005, 02:54 PM
Another thing I have thought about is how supposed offroad magazines could print articles about treading lightly.

To comment quickly about talking to enviros, yes, I've talked to them. I have several friends that are avid hikers/backpackers and some are even highly active sierra club members. I talk to them often about the things I suggested others should in my previous post. Am I changing the world singlehandedly by doing so? No, but I'm changing their opinion of 4 wheelers and that could someday make a difference.

I have also talked to forest service rangers who were obviously card-carrying sierra club members. Though their opinion of me was obviously perceived as negative I feel that I at least put in some smidgen of doubt into their theory.

As for magazines this is an excellent idea. I encourage you to write letters to them. They would probably be excited to read a letter that wasn't "why don't you do more write-ups on x?"

Don't limit it just to them, though. Contact your local 4 wheeling vendors and encourage them to get involved. It is in their best interest to do so. As more trails are closed down fewer people will be involved in the sport and their business will suffer. Groups like Cal4Wheel and FOTR are non-profit organizations and thus donations to them are tax write-offs.

SKUUT
08-30-2005, 12:17 PM
Yah, it's more than likely a fruitless effort. Trying to convince enviros to keep trails open is probably about as useful as trying to convince Bush and his Cabinet that they have ever made a mistake.

I see what you're saying about the magazines. I guess if they and 4 wheeling manufacturers/distributors aren't concerned about about raising awareness, then they aren't concerned about their business.

BigBadBob0
08-30-2005, 01:10 PM
Yah, it's more than likely a fruitless effort. Trying to convince enviros to keep trails open is probably about as useful as trying to convince Bush and his Cabinet that they have ever made a mistake.


That is, I think, the second dumbest thing I've ever read here. Convincing enviros that we're doing good things for the forest is a great idea. Despite how steep the hill is that we need to climb it is a very worthwhile effort.

SKUUT
08-30-2005, 01:57 PM
Relax bro. I understand that taking active measure, ex. picking up after yourself and others, staying on the trail, basically portraying 4 wheelers in a good light, is the best thing you can do. All I was saying is that people are stubborn and that typically, talk alone will not do the job. Which is why I was curious as to whether there were any lines of communication between enviros and wheelers in Norcal, where there has been alot of effort to keep the trails open.

Mike
08-30-2005, 02:00 PM
That is, I think, the second dumbest thing I've ever read here. Convincing enviros that we're doing good things for the forest is a great idea. Despite how steep the hill is that we need to climb it is a very worthwhile effort.

I passed by some hikers on the Dusy Ershim trail this last weekend. I slowed way down, smiled, waved, and got only dirty looks in return. I almost told them to hike in the fucking wilderness instead of a 4WD trail if they didn't like seing vehicles in the woods.

I say we quit being nice. Get all the people who use various forms of motorized recreation to band together, then start launching a bunch of lawsuits like the greenies do. I'm sure with enough money and enough slimy lawyers we could make a lot of progress.

Later,
....Mike

Dick Foster
08-30-2005, 02:02 PM
Why not just cut the chase and shoot the bastids then leave em to rot in their precious wilderness? LOL

PastorCJ
08-30-2005, 03:40 PM
I'm really not sure what to say to all this. I have lived in the desert all my life, and wheeled in it as long (and a little before) as I have had a license. EVERY time I wheel, I clean up other people's trash, I have written letters, and I am a member of at least two conservation (Surfrider and Access Fund) entities, and before reading this thread was intending on joining Tread Lightly. Admittedly, I have not been to a AZTTORA meet. The reason being, they are generally around Pheonix area, and quite honestly, with my son's doctor bills to pay, and a meager salary, and I can't justify driving to Pheonix every time there's a meet. I'm sure some of you will rip me for "not being involved enough", but I guarantee you, I'm no "web wheeler". Up untill now, I have been a proud member of TTORA, and recently ordered stickers to advertise that to the world, but now I'm rethinking that. By the sounds of some of these posts, if I have a TTORA sticker on my truck, but I don't have 6" of lift, a SAS and I'm not running 35's, and I'm not at every run so every one "know who I am" then I'm just a poser, and I have to right to claim TTORA. I'll tell you what - if AZTTORA required dues, I'd pay em, even if I couldn't attend the runs. That's how I feel about off roading. Don't go assuming that just because someone doesn't attend official runs that they're "web wheelers". I understand that there's a lot of people who consider TTORA "just another car club", but that's not everyone.

So, please, someone tell me that with my puny little 3" lift, and mostly stock truck with lots of skidplate scratches and Arizona dirt and me with my hopes of someday meeting in person my fellow AZTTORA members and actually getting to wheel with them, that I'm ok, and that I'm still allowed to have TTORA stickers.... Thanks.

CJ

Dick Foster
08-30-2005, 03:48 PM
You are OK by me. Hear hear on the dues thing. I wish we would, then donate the money not used for the server stuff to Blue Ribbon and the like.

PastorCJ
08-30-2005, 04:15 PM
Well, now that I've said all that, Thursday (I get paid tomorrow), I'm going to be getting a little truck under my name here... (Probably wont be a yellow one, but dangit, I'm gonna have a truck! :D ). I'm actually glad that I read this thread (besides the fact that Dick Foster actually told me I was Ok, I'll treasure that... :D), because it has made me take a harder look at whether or not there's more I can do. I may not be able to attend the TTORA meets, but I realized that I have gotten lots of information from this website and have yet to contribute monetarily. Now, I'm a little ashamed of that. So, as of Thursday, that will change. So now, I issue a challenge to all those who have been like me and have been freeloading from other's hard work: if we can't actually get out and be at the runs, the very least we can do, is put a little bit back into this Association. I don't know about you, but I've saved AT LEAST $25 on "cheap tricks" alone... :D

Mike
08-30-2005, 04:39 PM
So, please, someone tell me that with my puny little 3" lift, and mostly stock truck with lots of skidplate scratches and Arizona dirt and me with my hopes of someday meeting in person my fellow AZTTORA members and actually getting to wheel with them, that I'm ok, and that I'm still allowed to have TTORA stickers.... Thanks.

CJ

You sound like a perfectly decent TTORA member to me. I just don't understand why so many people want to join an off-road club when they don't have the slightest intention of ever going off-road.

When people see a TTORA sticker on a truck I would like them to think, 'hey, there's one of those TTORA guys who wheel, get involved, and care a lot about the trails.'

Later,
....Mike

PastorCJ
08-30-2005, 05:21 PM
You sound like a perfectly decent TTORA member to me. I just don't understand why so many people want to join an off-road club when they don't have the slightest intention of ever going off-road.

When people see a TTORA sticker on a truck I would like them to think, 'hey, there's one of those TTORA guys who wheel, get involved, and care a lot about the trails.'

Later,
....Mike

I understand where you're coming from. There was a pretty good club here in Bullhead, mostly Heeps, but they used to get out pretty often. But I tried to get ahold of someone to maybe join, and they never called me back. I'm thinking of perhaps starting one of my own. There's a lot of trails down here that could use some attention. Last time I went out, I brought home three glad bags worth of garbage. It was disgusting. I love the desert, and seeing all that trash really makes me mad.

Do you think that it would be too much of a hassle for the actual TTORA chapters to begin requiring dues? I know it wouldn't eliminate all the "posers", but those of us who really do wheel and are part of the chapter could support said chapter. Like I wrote earlier, right now I just can't get down to Pheonix for runs, but I would be more than willing to pay dues, because I own a Tacoma, I off road, and I support the association. I don't know, maybe it would be too much of a hassle trying to keep track of everyone, but I do think it would eliminate some of the issues you've become frustrated with. Maybe by making it so that you have to be a supporting member of a TTORA chapter to get stickers, I don't know. Anyway, any thoughts on that?

Dick Foster
08-30-2005, 05:26 PM
I for one am in complete agreement and posed pretty much the same thing recently. At least, now I know I'm not the only crazy one here. LOL

Mike
08-30-2005, 05:34 PM
Do you think that it would be too much of a hassle for the actual TTORA chapters to begin requiring dues? I know it wouldn't eliminate all the "posers", but those of us who really do wheel and are part of the chapter could support said chapter. Like I wrote earlier, right now I just can't get down to Pheonix for runs, but I would be more than willing to pay dues, because I own a Tacoma, I off road, and I support the association. I don't know, maybe it would be too much of a hassle trying to keep track of everyone, but I do think it would eliminate some of the issues you've become frustrated with. Maybe by making it so that you have to be a supporting member of a TTORA chapter to get stickers, I don't know. Anyway, any thoughts on that?

Shannon created this as a free club, and as far as I can tell it will remain that way for the forseeable future. BigBadBob changed around the NorCal site the other day. Everyone who wants to sign up gets on the mailing list to receive trip info, but only people who actually go out and wheel get listed on the 'members' page.

Later,
....Mike

Dick Foster
08-30-2005, 05:44 PM
The NorCal member list looks a lot better than it did now too.

PastorCJ
08-30-2005, 05:51 PM
Shannon created this as a free club, and as far as I can tell it will remain that way for the forseeable future. BigBadBob changed around the NorCal site the other day. Everyone who wants to sign up gets on the mailing list to receive trip info, but only people who actually go out and wheel get listed on the 'members' page.

Later,
....Mike


That's understandable. I was thinking that maybe each particular chapter could decide on whether or not dues are an option. I understand that this issue doesn't really have any "easy" answers, and I wasn't insinuating that it should. I appreciate all that Shannon has done with this website and the club, and I would never ever minimize that. I guess it comes down to "putting up or shutting up", which any of us who have done any real wheeling for any length of time have dealt with for as long as we've been shifting into 4lo. :D There's always gonna be the guys who have all the stuff that I wish I had but can't afford, but wouldn't dare take their truck off road for fear of scratching the shiny skidplate. (By the way, I sheared the rear bolts off my plate the other day, and now it's being held up by sheet metal screws untill I can really fix it...) Anyway, the bottom line is that people who enjoy the access to trails need to either be an active part of the solution, or quit being part of the problem.

Dick Foster
08-30-2005, 05:56 PM
It's still Shannon's club. He started it and laid down the rules a long time ago.

PastorCJ
08-30-2005, 06:00 PM
It's still Shannon's club. He started it and laid down the rules a long time ago.


OK, that makes sense.. I wasn't sure if the different TTORA chapters were simply "affiliated" with [the original] TTORA or that everything was under Shannon's leadership as "chief guy in charge".

Dick Foster
08-30-2005, 06:03 PM
He's the boss of us all. LOL

BigBadBob0
08-30-2005, 06:03 PM
So I think if you've read any of my posts in this thread you'll see that being in TTORA has nothing to do with the amount of lift you have or the number of runs you attend. I clearly talk of the multitude of ways in which you can participate without actually attending runs.

If you want to donate to us to help cover the costs of keeping this site alive then by all means donate. If you want to donate to someone to help save the world may I suggest a group like FOTR.

adamgil
08-30-2005, 06:06 PM
well said pastorcj, I feel the same as you do. I for one have never been on any "official" ttora runs, but am a proud member and have learned a ton of info on this site. I was going to try and make it to the last AZROCKS but being in the military, work got in the way. And as for paying dues, I for one think it would be worth it.

calamaridog
08-30-2005, 06:36 PM
Blue Ribbon Coalition is only $20 per year. It's a start folks, and not much of a commitment. They don't spam you. On real important issues they will send you background information in case you want to send a letter.

I signed up 5 people this year and will sign up 5 more next year through their "buddies" program. You sponsor them and hopefully they renew when their sponsored year is up.

TACO 4X4
08-31-2005, 08:51 AM
Shannon created this as a free club, and as far as I can tell it will remain that way for the forseeable future. BigBadBob changed around the NorCal site the other day. Everyone who wants to sign up gets on the mailing list to receive trip info, but only people who actually go out and wheel get listed on the 'members' page.

Later,
....Mike

Mike and BigBadBob,

Do we have to sign up again on the norcal site?...though I have been only able to make Takeover ('04) and one Red Dog ('05 a non-TTORA sanctioned run) with Anthony, Chris and Co. and one Sac meet and greet. I would still like to see what's the latest is via email. I don't care if my name is on the members list or not but would still like the updates.

Thanks.

Will

DennisDawg
08-31-2005, 11:44 AM
I understand that TTORA was and is set up as a free club and that has helped it grow. As such sometimes also brings people who are not necessarily supporting the efforts to keep the trails open onto the trails. I feel that it is here that it is important that local TTORA clubs can make an impact.

All driver meetings should include a discussion of the national and local groups involved in keeping the trails open. Membership forms for these organizations should be made available to all attendees and all members of TTORA encouraged to place the stickers for these groups on their trucks. Each club should also stay in close touch with groups to plan participation in clean ups and other events.

By making the groups that keep the trials open a major part of TTORA eventís, membership in those groups will grow. This for the cost of simply passing out membership forms.

By having club members display stickers and participating in clean ups and such, other clubs seeing a TTORA run will know we are part of the solution. Perhaps planning runs at the same time as clean ups might help with participation in the clean ups. Iíd even suggest participation in clean ups that are not off road activist group related, so that off roaders are seen as folks who clean things up, rather than wreck things.

I know that in some TTORA local clubs these things are already done. However I feel it should be universal. Any 4X4 club that is not well involved in such efforts is part of the problem and luckily we have the chance to be part of the solution.

BigBadBob0
08-31-2005, 11:58 AM
Mike and BigBadBob,

Do we have to sign up again on the norcal site?

Nope. The email list stayed the same, with the ~500 or so people on it. We just decided to curb the people that sign up just to see their name on a webpage.

Mike
08-31-2005, 02:28 PM
Mike and BigBadBob,

Do we have to sign up again on the norcal site?...though I have been only able to make Takeover ('04) and one Red Dog ('05 a non-TTORA sanctioned run) with Anthony, Chris and Co. and one Sac meet and greet. I would still like to see what's the latest is via email. I don't care if my name is on the members list or not but would still like the updates.

Thanks.

Will


Hi Will. All 500+ people are still on the mailing list. As far as people on the member's list, Bob just kinda deleted every name he didn't immediately recognize, so it's entirely possible that a few people who do participate got deleted. We will get that part fixed soon.

Later,
....Mike

TACO 4X4
08-31-2005, 02:51 PM
Nope. The email list stayed the same, with the ~500 or so people on it. We just decided to curb the people that sign up just to see their name on a webpage.

Cool, my name is to wierd to belong on a webpage :)

Thanks Bob.

TACO 4X4
08-31-2005, 02:56 PM
Hi Will. All 500+ people are still on the mailing list. As far as people on the member's list, Bob just kinda deleted every name he didn't immediately recognize, so it's entirely possible that a few people who do participate got deleted. We will get that part fixed soon.

Later,
....Mike

Thanks Mike...I don't care if my name is on the page or not. To be honest, I haven't participated enough to even warrant being on there. But I still get giddy seeing the TTORA emails in the hope I might be able to make one of the runs soon. Big hats off to you and Bob and others in Norcal who keep us posted on the trail happenings.

tacodab
08-31-2005, 09:40 PM
Hi Will. All 500+ people are still on the mailing list. As far as people on the member's list, Bob just kinda deleted every name he didn't immediately recognize, so it's entirely possible that a few people who do participate got deleted. We will get that part fixed soon.

Later,
....Mike
31 Members
that looks more like it :)

BigBadBob0
08-31-2005, 09:48 PM
Dude your name is totally in morse code next to your avatar :)

tacodab
08-31-2005, 09:54 PM
took you guys long enough to figure that out LOL
I thought that mike would see it first. I forgot you have your HAM license 2. :missingto

Mike
08-31-2005, 09:58 PM
took you guys long enough to figure that out LOL
I thought that mike would see it first. I forgot you have your HAM license 2. :missingto

We need more amateur radio operators in our group. Sometimes it's the only way to get help.

Later,
....Mike

tacodab
08-31-2005, 10:04 PM
We need more amateur radio operators in our group. Sometimes it's the only way to get help.

Later,
....Mike
you saying I should get my licence?
then I will have to find a way to wedge another electronic device in my truck :)

tacodab
08-31-2005, 10:05 PM
We need more amateur radio operators in our group. Sometimes it's the only way to get help.

Later,
....Mike
you saying I should get my licence?
then I will have to find a way to wedge another electronic device in my truck :)

GOT COPE?
09-01-2005, 12:52 AM
31 Members
that looks more like it :)

Hmm if we did that to our list we might have 15-20.

hawaiianbro
09-01-2005, 12:58 AM
mmm i e-mailed FOTR and have yet to recieve an email back? :confused:

this was about 2 weeks ago.

Lysmachia
10-19-2005, 01:14 AM
For those of us in Colorado - particularly the front range there has been a legendary trail that has been on the verge of closure for the past year - Lefthand Canyon, Carnage Canyon. Boulder is a pretty *green* town and so folks like to jump on the bandwagon and ban any OHV use when they can. Interestingly enough 99% of the people who want OHV's banned in Carnage Canyon have never been there. It's not a hiking trail, or a nature destination. It's a perfect mile long stretch of rock crawling bliss, and it serves its purpose well. It keeps us OHVr's happy and off of some of the more publicly used trails, and yet the locaLmentality is *CLOSE IT*. I think the latest decision is that they will make it a fee area, which if managed properly will do some good. (This is a miracle BTW - We thought for sure LH Carnage was a gonner). The fee area should keep the "I don't give a rats ass" wheelers out of there, and keep it open for those of us who respect the land that we wheel on. Much like you Norcal folks (and other groups) there a regular clean-up runs (of which I have been to several) and educational meetings where we can meet with the county commissioners and Forest Service Rangers. Interestingly enough, the most garbage comes from shell casings left from shooters who like to also use the area for shooting. But we wheelers will do what it takes - even if it means picking up 2000 22 shell casings on a 100 degree afternoon.

Don't just talk the talk. Walk the walk, and support whatever groups you think will represent your best interests at heart. (I'm a BRC member 5 years now...)

Thank you all for your valuable input here. It helps me see that other areas struggle to keep trails open as much as we do (and I just thought it was living in the people's republic of Boulder!)

Wgasa84
10-19-2005, 01:44 AM
To the people here who wheel, but don't belong to any trail organizations, donate money, or donate time to worthy causes:

What's your excuse?

Writing letters and sending emails is just about free.

Attending a trail cleanup, work weekend, or organized protest is a small sacrifice.

If you can afford $3 a gallon to fill up, probably much more on beer and food, how come you can't spend a few bucks to help keep trails open?

Later,
....Mike

BRC
Tread lightly
Soon: CA4WDC, CORVA

I am making avalable informatlon for these groups at our Anza Run. I entirely agree with you Mike.

cb77DEMELLO
10-19-2005, 04:33 PM
To the people here who wheel, but don't belong to any trail organizations, donate money, or donate time to worthy causes:

What's your excuse?

Writing letters and sending emails is just about free.

Attending a trail cleanup, work weekend, or organized protest is a small sacrifice.

If you can afford $3 a gallon to fill up, probably much more on beer and food, how come you can't spend a few bucks to help keep trails open?

Later,
....Mike

My 2cents for what it's worth. I help when ever I can, I could do more but I do what i can when i can. Anyone reading this feel free to add my e-mail to your mail list of when clean ups are!

I think for a new member coming to this board, for the most part there is a large group of guys on this board that make new guys feel like outsiders. I see questions from new guys turn into flame wars about what truck they drive and what questions they have. Were turning into the pirate board! (which is fine if we just want the same guys working to keep the trails open)

I think if the more responsible members of this board and long time members would do a better job of welcoming them into the board, they would probally feel more welcome and in turn be more willing to give up there weekends and a little money for the cause of saving our trails. Were missing the boat on educating a large section of wheelers!

It really boils down to lack of education, and it's our responsiblity to educate them! weather there questions are lame or not..lol

This isn't directed you mike or anyone else, just telling it how I see it!

Bear
10-19-2005, 04:35 PM
My 2cents for what it's worth. I help when ever I can, I could do more but I do what i can when i can. Anyone reading this feel free to add my e-mail to your mail list of when clean ups are!

I think for a new member coming to this board, for the most part there is a large group of guys on this board that make new guys feel like outsiders. I see questions from new guys turn into flame wars about what truck they drive and what questions they have. Were turning into the pirate board! (which is fine if we just want the same guys working to keep the trails open)

I think if the more responsible members of this board and long time members would do a better job of welcoming them into the board, they would probally feel more welcome and in turn be more willing to give up there weekends and a little money for the cause of saving our trails. Were missing the boat on educating a large section of wheelers!

It really boils down to lack of education, and it's our responsiblity to educate them! weather there questions are lame or not..lol

This isn't directed you mike or anyone else, just telling it how I see it!
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Well said Jason!

Distiller
10-20-2005, 07:29 AM
As a new guy to this board as well as to offroading, I haven't really gotten to know to politics behind it all. I still don't know everything but with time things will clear up. I've been to Dell's website and read some there but that is about my extent of knowledge of the subject. :o

As for groups to join, I see all of these abbreviations and most mean little to nothing to me. The ones that I did look into are mostly cali based and living in FL does me little good. I have no problem supporting but I don't know where to start. Are there any nationwide orginizations or are they all strictly local? Jason said it best, when the older guys from the board make us newer folk feel outcasted. Sure, I haven't been to a run, nor made my contribution but if some of the older guys took time out to inform the newbs.

Help us to help you...
:2cents:

calamaridog
10-20-2005, 09:06 AM
When I buy products I like to buy from companies who are members/sponsors of groups like United 4wd, Cal4wd, CORVA, BRC, FTOR, etc. If more of the companies who make money off the "off road" products would put their names and pocket books behind the land use fight, we would have a war chest just like the Greens and we'd kick their asses.

When I order from them, I let them know where I saw them advertised, so they get some feedback.

As far as helping the noobies, I'm all for it.

not2XS
10-20-2005, 03:27 PM
...As for groups to join, I see all of these abbreviations and most mean little to nothing to me. The ones that I did look into are mostly cali based and living in FL does me little good...

BRC is the Blue Ribbon Coalition, who are a national group. Tread Lightly is also a national group, though opinions here seem to be more divided on their worthiness - but they do have a cool name that says it all. UFWDA is United Four Wheel Drive Association, they seem to be a national version of CA4WDC, but I don't really know much about them or what they have done.

A quick Google search came up with http://www.trailquest.com/how_to/events.shtml
a list of links you may find interesting to check out further (including fl4wda). But your best bet is to get in touch with some local 4WD clubs, find out what is under threat in your area, and what groups have been formed locally to deal with it, and what they are doing.

P.S. That link above is good for information all over the country, in case anyone else not in Florida is interested in finding out more.

GOT COPE?
03-04-2006, 11:26 AM
ttt

ricomann
03-04-2006, 12:12 PM
To the people here who wheel, but don't belong to any trail organizations, donate money, or donate time to worthy causes:

What's your excuse?

Writing letters and sending emails is just about free.

Attending a trail cleanup, work weekend, or organized protest is a small sacrifice.

If you can afford $3 a gallon to fill up, probably much more on beer and food, how come you can't spend a few bucks to help keep trails open?

Later,
....Mike

read half of the first page and I didn't need to read the rest. don't know why this came up as new, must have been a new response.

Honestly, I am new to this whole thing, I have been off road on motorbikes and in my truck here and there for years. Until recently, I havne't been around anyone who know or cares to get me in gear. Fair enough to say that how would you volunteer for something you didn't know about?

anywho, if there are others like me who are just getting into this, for true off roading and recreation, let's get going togehter.

with one exception I was never impressed with the jackasses that I used to ride bikes with. Sure some were cool guys, but one of the reasons that i don't have a bike is that I really never made any friends worth keeping. To me life is about the people, and the places, and the memories. If you lose one, or worse, two, you always lose the third. Those guys never much cared, it was all about what kind of a bad ass they could be, more image. So why ride alone.... and why ride with guys who don't care about the right, you or the land? I figured it the same as riding alone. Tomorrow they will be gone and I still got a couple grand on two wheels in the garage.

People in the 4x4 community seem more sensible, at least at the onset they have. I have been impressed with the level of commitment I've seen here, and the level of knowledge of the rules, regulations, and reality of the ability to do what we enjoy.

Party on, and if you want to keep partying on, let's help however we can. I get occasional emails saying write here or do this or that. but if I don't understand, I can't get a feel for and truly make a difference where it is most needed, and as a result I continue to do nothing.

If there are others like me, bascially we just need a coach, which probably goes for most NooB's to this activity.

We'll be happy to join. but mike, do i still have to get you all the beer, 25 meetings and 15 trailrides just to have the TTORA power ranger ring?

GOT COPE?
03-04-2006, 12:50 PM
read half of the first page and I didn't need to read the rest. don't know why this came up as new, must have been a new response.



rico I bumped this thread thats why its on top :) Just thought Id bring it back up, our involvment, on any level, is important to our sports future. Do what you can, thats all.

GOT COPE?
03-04-2006, 12:55 PM
People in the 4x4 community seem more sensible, at least at the onset they have. I have been impressed with the level of commitment I've seen here, and the level of knowledge of the rules, regulations, and reality of the ability to do what we enjoy.

Party on, and if you want to keep partying on, let's help however we can. I get occasional emails saying write here or do this or that. but if I don't understand, I can't get a feel for and truly make a difference where it is most needed, and as a result I continue to do nothing.

If there are others like me, bascially we just need a coach, which probably goes for most NooB's to this activity.


There are plenty of people here that care about involving themselves in Land Use activities.

Mike is a great coach :D Talk to him about any ?'s you have.

And there are plenty of organizations to join and meet others through and learn what you can do.

Try www.ufwda.org (http://www.ufwda.org/)
http://www.cal4wheel.com/[/url]
http://www.sharetrails.org/[url="http://www.sharetrails.org/trails"] (http://www.ca4wda.org/)
www.tlca.org (http://www.tlca.org/)
for starters.

Oh and ya'll have Friends of The Rubicon out there too. I dont know their addy.

ohio03trdtaco
03-04-2006, 01:09 PM
There are plenty of people here that care about involving themselves in Land Use activities.

Mike is a great coach :D Talk to him about any ?'s you have.

And there are plenty of organizations to join and meet others through and learn what you can do.

Try www.ufwda.org (http://www.ufwda.org/)
http://www.cal4wheel.com/[/url]
http://www.sharetrails.org/[url="http://www.sharetrails.org/trails"] (http://www.ca4wda.org/)
www.tlca.org (http://www.tlca.org/)
for starters.

Oh and ya'll have Friends of The Rubicon out there too. I dont know their addy.

The cal4wheel.com link didnít work for me, and the www.sharetrails.org works if you take of the /trails. I am trying to get deeper into 4wheeling and get better involved. I do care about having trails stay open and definitely all for helping to clean up trails around here. Also, there are several reasons to clean up trails not just the environmental. Nothing like running over a piece of metal and trashing a tire just because some one didnít pick up the parts falling of their rig.

GOT COPE?
03-04-2006, 04:34 PM
The cal4wheel.com link didnít work for me, and the www.sharetrails.org (http://www.sharetrails.org/) works if you take of the /trails. I am trying to get deeper into 4wheeling and get better involved. I do care about having trails stay open and definitely all for helping to clean up trails around here. Also, there are several reasons to clean up trails not just the environmental. Nothing like running over a piece of metal and trashing a tire just because some one didnít pick up the parts falling of their rig.

I fixed the links quick like :D Doesnt even show my edit ;)

Yes, there are several reasons we should keep the trails clean. Mainly because we use em and you should always leave a place better than you found it.

But the main reason these days for scrambling to make ourselves look good (as you probably know) is because of all the enviro nazis who unreasonably want the trails shut down just cause thats what they want, and we have to work hard to make sure our efforts get noticed so we can show that the greenies are wrong when they say wheelers are destroying the environment.

Its unfortunate IMO thats its this way as I think many of us are humble and would rather go on about our business w/ no glory and no news, but we have to show the people in the middle of the pack that we are good people and we do things to help the environment.

ricomann
03-05-2006, 08:51 PM
.................I think many of us are humble and would rather go on about our business w/ no glory and no news, but we have to show the people in the middle of the pack that we are good people and we do things to help the environment.

So, but oh so true. Sucks when you are forced to make noise you'd rather not make cause some one is honking at a problem that is not a problem.

TEJASYOTA
03-08-2006, 11:07 AM
I just joined TMTC.
Looking to join both the BRC and the UFWDA soon too.

PA Taco
04-07-2006, 11:01 AM
Just joined BRC and Tread Lightly! I'd love to do some trail cleanups ect.
I havent seen much info on upcoming cleanups, nothing on the calender. I did see that a group went to Paragon for trail building/cleanup or something (unfortunately I missed that one) but this stuff seems too few and far between.

Anyone can PM me or email me if they have info. How about maybe a trail cleanup folder, or we can just get these things posted on the calender. :)

jhunter
04-07-2006, 01:09 PM
Because I am in West Texas, and own the land that I wheel on. As for the other places in the area (San Angelo). I pay taxes to play there. So overall I pay dues of 1200 land payment per month and 200 in taxes per month.

PA Taco
04-07-2006, 01:33 PM
Because I am in West Texas, and own the land that I wheel on. As for the other places in the area (San Angelo). I pay taxes to play there. So overall I pay dues of 1200 land payment per month and 200 in taxes per month.

Why are you here?

jhunter
04-07-2006, 01:44 PM
On TTORA? Because it is a good source for tacoma issues. Not everyone takes their trucks off road. I dont really have the time to make trips to Utah etc. I have been here since this site started. And back with a new username about a year ago. I also had the first TTORA run in San Angelo in 2000, some of which was on my land. If one day I feel the urge to make trips around the US to go offroad, then I might join some org's. But right now I am here to talk about Tacoma's, the maintnance, issues, new concepts, etc. Not offroad stuff.

PA Taco
04-07-2006, 02:03 PM
On TTORA? Because it is a good source for tacoma issues. Not everyone takes their trucks off road. I dont really have the time to make trips to Utah etc. I have been here since this site started. And back with a new username about a year ago. I also had the first TTORA run in San Angelo in 2000, some of which was on my land. If one day I feel the urge to make trips around the US to go offroad, then I might join some org's. But right now I am here to talk about Tacoma's, the maintnance, issues, new concepts, etc. Not offroad stuff.

Then you already know this IS an offroad forum, so I for one do not understand your response. I think your missing the point. This thread is trying to increase awareness for supporting offroad issues. If you dont want to give support that is your choice, just dont give some lame excuse. If one day you feel the urge to make trips around the US to go offroad, those opportunities may not exist without offroad enthusiasts efforts. Everyone pays taxes but those taxes do not help our cause. Do you not agree?

jhunter
04-08-2006, 12:51 AM
If they are not there, I guess I will not do it. You ask why we are not involved and I told you. There is no need for it. As for this site (forum really) look how much is about off road stuff. Not all of it. As for the taxes, here it does. We have public land where we can go offroad, and the park, lake, staff, etc is paid for from our property tax. It helps my cause, becuase they let us go offroad in the area. The post is fine if it were to raise awareness, but it said "why are you not involved", and "what is your excuse?" I told you, and gave my excuse (that you called lame). I dont know why trails that I wheel on (about once a year) would close, but please inform me. They have been here long before I was born, and I dont see them going anywhere before I die. Things are different in Tx. Now, do I clean up the trail if I am out and see trash? Yes. This is not an "offroad" forum as much as it is a toyota forum. Out of the 25 new post as of right now, only one is related to offroad. The rest are about the truck itself.... Anyway, sorry about the long post, but you asked for input, I gave it to you, and now you call it lame and trash me about it. Later.

TACO 4X4
04-10-2006, 10:46 AM
If they are not there, I guess I will not do it. You ask why we are not involved and I told you. There is no need for it. As for this site (forum really) look how much is about off road stuff. Not all of it. As for the taxes, here it does. We have public land where we can go offroad, and the park, lake, staff, etc is paid for from our property tax. It helps my cause, becuase they let us go offroad in the area. The post is fine if it were to raise awareness, but it said "why are you not involved", and "what is your excuse?" I told you, and gave my excuse (that you called lame). I dont know why trails that I wheel on (about once a year) would close, but please inform me. They have been here long before I was born, and I dont see them going anywhere before I die. Things are different in Tx. Now, do I clean up the trail if I am out and see trash? Yes. This is not an "offroad" forum as much as it is a toyota forum. Out of the 25 new post as of right now, only one is related to offroad. The rest are about the truck itself.... Anyway, sorry about the long post, but you asked for input, I gave it to you, and now you call it lame and trash me about it. Later.

Sadly, most think this way. Your excuse is honest. You ask why would a trail close that you only use once a year? Becuase the Sierra Club or some other earth loving org. says there is a rare beetle, turtle or fungus (or whatever) that grows on that trail and thus tries to close it down to save it as all the so-called 4wd traffic are killing them...or trash is being built up. It is already happenning, trails that were here long before you and I were here are being closed down. You are correct, this is a Toyota forum for Toyota enthusiast relating to off-roading and/or mechanical fixes. But, correct me if I am wrong, it is geared to off-road enthusiast? Sure, there's lots of poop in between, but thats what this forum/site/club is about. More importantly, it's about being 4wheeling, camping and enjoyng the outdoors with others who enjoy the same thing. I personally, could do more. I belong to BRC and clean the trails as I am out there. However, with more people thinking the way you do, what we can enjoy is slowing being taken away. It may not be hitting Texas like Cali. but it will...

Jeff.
04-11-2006, 10:52 AM
Joined Cal4wheel today...BRC soon to come. I've always wanted to get involved in this type of cause, but had not. I've been riding dirtbikes for about a year and saw the ever threatened land use issues but never took action. Yesterday on my dirtbike forum I saw a post about Riverside County and a terrible land closing issue...I went home and told my wife about it, she said "if you feel so passionate about it, why don't you actually do something" - all this coming from a public policy grad :rolleyes: Well, I jump on TTORA this morning and read this thread top to bottom...and at about post 12 or so I was on cal4wheel.com becoming a paying member.

Mike - if you have that list of addresses to send letters to, send 'em my way...I want to help.

Also, I am on the e-mail list for Nor*Cal TTORA and I want to give my time in helping to clean the trails around here, so make sure I've got a seat since my stock taco might not make it up most the runs. :o As soon as you guys go on a run that my truck can make, I'll be there...and apparently become a "member" as well. See you all at the next meet and greet.

I hope I deserve to wear my TTORA "badge of honor"
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b172/jtaylor23/IMG_5656.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b172/jtaylor23/IMG_5635.jpg

BigBadBob0
04-11-2006, 11:27 AM
Your truck will do fine on most of the trail runs we do. Thanks for sharing a passion in preserving responsible access to our trails. Look forward to seeing you out there.

Jeff.
04-11-2006, 01:09 PM
Cool, thanks Bob...
Just joined BRC too.

GOT COPE?
04-12-2006, 02:45 AM
Its awesome to see so many joining these organizations! Keep it up. :kewl: