Axle 101 questions

[RickerRicker19]

Ok before someone says go search I have on this forum and on others and I'm shopping around for axles but I'd like some advice on what I'm trying to do. I've heard all kinds of crazy stuff about 1 ton axles yadda yadda and that's great....but I'm building a dd that's capable enough to take me to some remote places and can tackle the rubicon ;). Tire size is going to be either 33" or 34". I know I want my ratio to be either 4.56 or 4.88....leaning more towards 4.56 for on-road but I could use advice on this. Also am I better off just upgrading my axles I have under the 82 or am I better off finding an 89 rear axle and a Land Cruiser front with the high pinion. I'd love to end up with ARB lockers....but I also know how much they cost so I'm also looking at detroit....but I want to maintain max driveability on the road. Also I have a few more diff/axle questions. I have found a full float axle for the rear on craigslist for a decent price out of a 1-ton yota. I was wondering whether I should hop on that or hold out. Also what's the deal with dana axles? I know that's a newb question but this inquiring mind definitely wants to know. When I build this damn thing I only want to build it once and then I have my rig till the damn wheels fall off it and I'm forced to buy a flying car lol. Any flaming, advice, laughing is authorized at my free expense but the advice would be appreciated as well as the flaming lol. Oh and I might be living in Cali right now but I'm registered in KY.....I could give a damn about my tires sticking out of the fenders lol.

[bigarms23]

488 for gears find an 83-85 front yota axle upgrade the birfs and the deal with dana axles is there stronger for 37s and larger tires you get another 6inches in width per side the ring and pinions on the danas are larger and so on oh are you building on a budget or not also find an ifs or taco rear axle and build away

[RickerRicker19]

thanks for the advice on the danas....I won't be chasing after them then just because I don't think I'll ever need that kind of strength. I'm kinda building on a budget but the thing is that I don't want to skimp on the build either. So keep the front axle the same with a 2" spacer to make it look normal....and find a taco axle to widen the track a bit

[orange crusher]

I run 1 tons. They are going to be major overkill for 35s. I run 40s. My 79 toy is going to run upgraded stock axles. Ill also be putting 37s on it. I like the ease of staying toyota on the next build. So stay toyota. They make great stuff and upgrades are easy to find. Housings I would do the 85/86 front last year they made them and better than the first.

[AK 82toy]

rick, you know im going through the same thing you are, this is my plan
1. gears 4.88 with that spool you have in your boxes.
2. 34 10:50's super swamper ltb
3. then if i wanna upgrade axels ive got all the parts, but i wont do that till i break somthing.

[orange crusher]

3. then if i wanna upgrade axels ive got all the parts, but i wont do that till i break somthing.

Great answer!

[HIRunna]

With the toyota axles, their much easier to work on imo, most upgrades are cheaper, and there is a lot of after market support. But you can use a v6 diff for the front and upgrade to a tacoma rear axle. If you want a wider stance, get some wheel spacers.

With the dana axle, you will put on A LOT of weight. This is good for off road because you will have a lower COG, but it will definitely effect your gas milage. You're going to want to run atleast 40s as well...

To get to the point, I wouldn't put a dana60 in my dd due to the weight and tire size that will kill your mileage.

[TRoss]

"Shopping around for axles" What does that mean? You have no axles at all or you want to replace the current Toy '82 axles?

Okay, here's my :2cents based on current 82' stuff and key words "budget" and "daily driver" ;):
- Go 34" tire if ya can
- Go 4.88 gear (assuming your 5spd, right?)
- Truss and gusset your current front axle
- Leave the front axle open unless you plan on buying Longs $$$ and a selectable locker $$$
- If you have access to an '86 or later rear housing they are a bit beefier and 3" wider. Then you'll need spacers for the front.
- I'm running a Lock-Right in my DD... I don't really like it on the road but they're cheap and work well offroad. (Saving up for a used E-Locker one day :D)
- Lastly... Keep it all TOY!!!!!!!!!! :p (for 35-6ish" tires or less)

Good luck with it!!!

[RickerRicker19]

I found a very useful page on weakest to strongest axles after I read your posts and think it might be worth a sticky for the link. It's geared towards jeep swaps but I found it very useful to gauge where toyota axles rank in strength....and they are actually pretty good...."but looked down upon for being an import axle" KISS MY WHITE bleeep! lol. Read the link if you want to know where I got that quote.

http://gatordone.lefora.com/2009/03/08/weakest-to-strongest-axles/

In other news after the advice that I've gotten I think I have the plan for parts to upgrade/repair (since I don't have a functioning e-brake right now)

1. FROR full float conversion kit. $1530. I would like the idea that if something happened to my rear axle or I needed to flat tow it that I could just unlock the hubs in the rear with this kit installed. Worth the cash imo (but open to criticism)
2. 4.88 gears with arb lockers installed (high pinion front)
$3200. It's worth the cash to me. I have driven arbs in the military and there just isn't a replacement that is as good as an arb
3. High steer from Marlin $429. Looked at trail gear but their rep isn't quite as good as Marlin from my research.
4. AllPro x-member and line lock (solution for no ebrake lol) $439
5. Marlin dual case adapter $400 (already have a donor transfer case)
6. Marlin Twin Stick upgrade $200 (?? I wasn't really sure about this but 2wd lo would be nice)
7. Rebuild kit for two transfer cases (I already have 4.7 gears for one transfer case but I think both of them need a rebuild)
8. Marlin Gusset $25
9. 2" wheel spacers all around $400

Brings my wishlist to $6623 :eek: for all the upgrades that I am planning on. Of course if I found these parts for sale used I would be all over them provided I had the money. I was planning on topping the project off at 8k (with paint and rust protection) so it looks like I'm on track for budget. Oh ak....found out I wasn't looking at differential gears...they are transfer case gears. You learn something new every day :rolleyes:. But it does save me a little money I suppose. So now I need to :google: and start looking for better deals if I can find them! You guys think this is a pretty good round of upgrades to complete the truck?

[taco4x4rar]

1 tons are a boat anchor for anything less than 37" tires. Keep you yota axles they can easily handle 33-35s with minimal upgrades. Avoid the wheel spacers and massive backspaced wheels if you can as they are hell on the trunion bearings. If you want width get a wider housing the one from trailgear is pretty cheap (some people will talk crap about it cause it comes with factory specs for caster but with the low amount of lift you'll be running that shouldn't be an issue) and either run spacers in the rear or get an IFS housing. The other thing that is a must have upgrade for the front is either high or crossover steering the factory push pull setup is just no bueno once you leave the relm of a stock truck.

[RickerRicker19]

Yeah I already experienced the hell of push pull.....hit a curb when I was turning around some where and the steering wheel damn near ripped out of my hands....that wasn't cool....but I learned why push pull sucks lol.

[AK 82toy]

Yeah I already experienced the hell of push pull.....hit a curb when I was turning around some where and the steering wheel damn near ripped out of my hands....that wasn't cool....but I learned why push pull sucks lol.

lmao, i hate when that happens. you dont have power steering do you. :D i love my power steering, im trying to do the same type of project as you only with 1/4 the budget. least i have spare parts to choose from. with the wheeling i do i just cant justify the arb's or even a detroit. ive been planing on a spool since i got this project. if you wanna sell your spool ill be first in line. the piece with the gears bolted on SPOOL >>> http://img190.imageshack.us/i/20101227115554.jpg/ and you forgot to add 800 for tires to your budget. my tire plan is for the LTB 34'S, Ive already got a set of 32s for summer and 33's that are studded and siped for winter.

[RickerRicker19]

yeah I did forget that....damn....more money!!! Sure good deal on the spool. However I don't even know if it works either....it just came with the truck. I did find the rebuilds on wabfab.com for 165 a pop. I imagine that all they need is a minor rebuild and all the guts cleaned really well. Not sure what kind of tire that I'm looking for. Currently with the sand I'm not really impressed with the BFG AT....although unless it's really deep I don't even have to engage the 4wd....so I suppose they hold their own. Might be looking into wrangler MT/R or BFG Baja. Ive been looking around craigslist and it seems to me that I can find a decent set for a couple hundred bucks cheaper that are slightly used. How are detroits for on road driving They are roughly 200 cheaper and I don't have to get a compressor for them.

[AK 82toy]

ive had no experence with a detroit but i have heard they are noisy when they engage but tough as a rock. least with an arb you would have the option of on and off. plus you would have a compressor for airing up tires. i have little experence with sand but i do know wider is better keeps you on top of the sand any MT tire will dig, my main wheeling trip i do every year is about 250 miles off the highway, lots of mud holes and the trail criss crosses numerous rivers and you never know when your going to drop off into a hole. there hills to climb one is 4 miles up and 5 miles down and if its raining its a bitch, this is where the spool comes in, i dont believe a locker in the front will help me as much as hurt me ive got 144 inch wheel base and its like turning a bus. a spool works or its in 2 pieces dont need the gears iv got some just gotta drive 360 miles to pick them up. maby in march during the iditarod.

[RickerRicker19]

That sounds like a blast! Climbing in mud though is a real pita if it's sloppy. I did just find out something nice though. I have a ring and pinion sitting in a box....actually turns out to be a 5.29 lol. Looks like the previous owner was going for 35" or 37". Might have to swap that out or trade it for a 4.88 gear. I'm not too interested in having 5.29 for gearing since gas mileage.....wait what gas mileage lol. Luckily down here in Socal I could go hit a trail on a Saturday and make it back home before midnight on a few of the trails. Yeah I definitely don't have power steering....I wouldn't mind having a/c and power steering but honestly I haven't had that much of a problem yet.....I do know what once I get out on the trail though that I'll really want it....or I could just get a huge workout which isn't all bad.

[AK 82toy]

well if you still got the 5.29s when i get the gears from my brother inlaw id swap you. he put 4.88s in his with 36s and swaped in 5.29s a week later. hes got more money than brains.

[RickerRicker19]

Two sets or one??. It sounds like a good deal to me....especially since the more money I save on this the happier the wifey will be lol. I told her the almost 8k figure for the complete build and I saw her hair turning white and her eyes going red.

[AK 82toy]

front and rear

[HIRunna]

2" wheel spacers all around $400


Instead of wheel spacers in the back, I would get a v6 rear axle. You can probably get one for the same price as your wheel spacers. ($200ish) Everything about the v6 rear end is stronger and its 3" wider than the 4 banger axle.

Then you'd only need to get a pair of 1.5" wheel spacers for the front.

[RickerRicker19]

now that's a deal. I can send you the 5.29 (37 ring 7 pinion teeth) and the spool and you can send me the 4.88s. I imagine the shipping will be pretty similar as both pieces are heavy as hell and then I can actually shop around for just arb lockers...which is a bit cheaper (only 1400) and get a high pinion diff housing.

[AK 82toy]

ill let you know exactly what i get when i get it. like i said it probably wont be till the first weekend in march, he said there sitting in his shed but hes one of those flaky guys that always has what you need and cant find it. so will have to see if im gettin my chain yanked again. hope not.

[RickerRicker19]

Instead of wheel spacers in the back, I would get a v6 rear axle. You can probably get one for the same price as your wheel spacers. ($200ish) Everything about the v6 rear end is stronger and its 3" wider than the 4 banger axle.

Then you'd only need to get a pair of 1.5" wheel spacers for the front.

Now this might sound really newbish....is there any difference between the 4cyl ring and pinion and the v6 ring and pinion? I noticed on Marlin that they are two different parts...so I'm not sure how different a 6cyl r&p would be but somehow I suppose there could be a difference in design.

[AK 82toy]

Now this might sound really newbish....is there any difference between the 4cyl ring and pinion and the v6 ring and pinion? I noticed on Marlin that they are two different parts...so I'm not sure how different a 6cyl r&p would be but somehow I suppose there could be a difference in design.

only difference is they are stronger. i talked to cperry from ecg and he said they will drop right in.

[RickerRicker19]

sweet. I checked the shipping on a 30lbs package to fairbanks and I could set aside the cash for shipping. Just let me know when you get the gears and we can swap.

[HIRunna]

Now this might sound really newbish....is there any difference between the 4cyl ring and pinion and the v6 ring and pinion? I noticed on Marlin that they are two different parts...so I'm not sure how different a 6cyl r&p would be but somehow I suppose there could be a difference in design.

If you scroll down you can find the difference between the v6 and 4 cylinder diffs.

http://home.4x4wire.com/erik/diffs/

There's no such thing as "4cyl" and "V6" R&P.

There are actually two types of R&P, let's call them "LPH" (Long Pinion Head) and "SPH" (Short Pinion Head).

- '79-'85 rigs have SPH gears and a "thick" inner pinion bearing designed for the 4cyl housing. All aftermarket "4cyl" R&P and inner pinion bearings are identical to these factory parts, that way the same part numbers will fit all '79-'95 four-cylinder rigs.

- '86-'95 four-cylinder and V6 rigs ALL come with LPH gears. However, to use LPH gears in a four-cylinder housing you MUST use the "thin" '86-'95 factory Toyota four-cylinder inner pinion bearing. If you use a "thick" aftermarket bearing (or a factory '79-'85 bearing) the pinion will be too deep into the mesh and won't work.

- SPH gears will fit V6 housings if you add a lot of inner pinion bearing shims. Precision Gear avoids having to use so many shims by offering an aftermarket LPH gearset for V6 housings.

- '88-'95 V6 housings must obviously use V6 inner pinion bearings, so there's no confusion here.

- Carrier bearings aren't an issue here either, just R&P. You need 4cyl carrier bearings for 4cyl housings and V6 carrier bearings for V6 housings regardless of year.

[RickerRicker19]

man I'm going to save this thread just because of all the info I've gotten in one day! Axles and diffs are actually starting to make sense now lol. Thanks for the link! Sounds like what I've got planned will work well and save a bit o cash as well. I was kinda worried about the r&p for the front because I want a high pinion diff up front and I'm so new to this that I wasn't sure of anything. So now I'm at least confident that this will work and I won't be stuck after buying stuff I don't need.

[HIRunna]

The set up I'm suggesting to you is exactly what I have. If you want pics or more info on what I have, feel free to PM me.

I already have a d60 and ford 10.5" but I'm choosing to keep what I have now and save the axles for a rig dedicated to just trails...

[RickerRicker19]

I'll keep it in mind hirunna thanks a lot. I'm going to be building slowly but you were right about the axle....I found a couple for 200 or less on craigslist and I'm sure I could ask around at some junk yards and find them there as well.

[waskillywabbit]

82 Pickup that has been in my shop since Sept 2009 (long story)
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs391.ash2/66955_1647368461025_1141325772_1815938_2001582_n.j pg

It's got the business sitting on 35s.

:welder:

[AK 82toy]

82 Pickup that has been in my shop since Sept 2009 (long story)
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs391.ash2/66955_1647368461025_1141325772_1815938_2001582_n.j pg

It's got the business sitting on 35s.

:welder:

that one looks clean. i had 35s on my first one. got 33's on my newest one now i need to lift it. PICS> http://www.myspace.com/dogsleddriver/photos/albums/4x4-toy/1568552#mssrc=SitesPhotos_SP_AlbumCover_ViewAlbum

[RickerRicker19]

Man that truck is clean....I love it! I'm planning on painting mine two tone with blue up top, white on the sides, and then bedliner along the bottom like yours. I'm tossing around the idea of doing white for the bedliner. This truck excites me for how mine might look when I'm finished with it. She needs paint and rust work sadly....but I'm willing to put the love into her and bring it back to life.
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/5198/20101228132506.th.jpg (http://img692.imageshack.us/i/20101228132506.jpg/)

[AK 82toy]

82 Pickup that has been in my shop since Sept 2009 (long story)
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs391.ash2/66955_1647368461025_1141325772_1815938_2001582_n.j pg

It's got the business sitting on 35s.

:welder:

you could push it out to the street and i could get it outa your hair...lol

[RickerRicker19]

Ha! Not if I got there first....I'd leave you most of my truck as a consolation prize though ;)