round tube sliders vs. square tube

[04RedLobster]

is there a difference in performance in those two?

[zosimov21]

The square sliders held up to a nasty roll when Daniel's truck flipped.
http://pictures.uu4x4.net/albums/album125/IMG_6596.sized.jpg

That vs this hit I did to my round sliders.

http://littlecaprinia.com/uwharrie/slider3.jpg

But those were extreeme circumstances. Under regular use I'd vote for same performance. Just a question on how you want them to look. Mine are .120 wall tube but I don't know if there is a difference in strength vs the square ones.

[04RedLobster]

so..maybe one might be more durable than the other against like harsh hit against rocks?

[zosimov21]

I would imagine the fabber guys and Chris :D would know. You might start another war Round vs Square like the bolt on vs weld on LOL

[04RedLobster]

haha i do what i can...;)
i guess i will ask michael about his opinons on this too on saturday..since i'll prob ask him to make me some..hehe

[SurfingDrunk]

The square sliders held up to a nasty roll when Daniel's truck flipped.
http://pictures.uu4x4.net/albums/album125/IMG_6596.sized.jpg

it still freaks me out seeing his foot pinned under that slider!

[zosimov21]

I believe Michael would make round sliders since he deals in tube stock :)

[04RedLobster]

yeah it's crazy... i don't believe he had any ankle injuries..

[zosimov21]

Yeah I'm glad he didn't break it as well am glad I'm not the one in the hat running. I got there afterwards.

[zosimov21]

It swelled up but I don't believe he shattered any bones :)

[04RedLobster]

I believe Michael would make round sliders since he deals in tube stock :)
haha he makes square tubes also!! well at least i think he does...looking at his website..lol

[gary briggs]

the material is not as important as how they are made, properly made both should be very very strong and durable

[TacoDell]

The square sliders held up to a nasty roll when Daniel's truck flipped.
http://pictures.uu4x4.net/albums/album125/IMG_6596.sized.jpg

That vs this hit I did to my round sliders.

http://littlecaprinia.com/uwharrie/slider3.jpg

But those were extreeme circumstances. Under regular use I'd vote for same performance. Just a question on how you want them to look. Mine are .120 wall tube but I don't know if there is a difference in strength vs the square ones.


That's not a fair comparison... Daniel's foot softened the blow to the slider... You forgot to stick your foot out there as well... :D

[96tacolx]

haha i do what i can...;)
i guess i will ask michael about his opinons on this too on saturday..since i'll prob ask him to make me some..hehe

Hey Thomas, did you check with Carolina Rock Shop on sliders? Last time I talked to them he quoted me like $200-225 on round sliders.

[zosimov21]

That's not a fair comparison... Daniel's foot softened the blow to the slider... You forgot to stick your foot out there as well... :D

Next time :eek:

[rokbrkr]

It's my belief that round is stronger than square pound for pound, 2" x .120 wall round tubing wieghs about 2.4 pounds per foot, and 1.75"x.120 wieghs 2 pounds per foot, where as 2" square tubing .120 wall weighs 3 pounds per foot, as someone else said, design has alot to do with strength, but if square were better overall, that's what we would build roll cages, tube buggies, and race cars out of, plus I think round just looks better on tacos since there's not one flat surface on the whole truck, just my :2cents:

[WallyP226]

I believe that for sliders the forces are accross the tubing not pushing or pulling, therefore square tubing handles these kinds of stresses better than round of the same thickness.

Instead of a circle there are two walls directed for up and down forces that are much wider than the rounded walls in round tubing.

With that said, pound for pound it may be true that round tubing is stronger in certain aplications, for frames most of them are square or C-Channel including tractor trailer rigs.

[JESSE_at_TLT]

If you guys are just talking about the difference in strength between tubing shapes, then square/rectangular tubing is stronger than round tubing of the same diameter and thickness when you can control what loads it's subjected to, like framerails, I-beams, etc. which are designed to carry vertical loads or take side-impacts. Square tubing is only stronger than round tubing when two sides are perpendicular to the force acting on it. Round tubing is stronger in applications where you can't always anticipate where the load/force/impact/whatever is going to come from (like rollcages). As far as which one to use for sliders, it really shouldn't matter. I prefer round tubing and we used 1.5" x .188-wall DOM for the sliders on our Tacoma.

[4BYnTacoma]

It's my belief that round is stronger than square pound for pound, 2" x .120 wall round tubing wieghs about 2.4 pounds per foot, and 1.75"x.120 wieghs 2 pounds per foot, where as 2" square tubing .120 wall weighs 3 pounds per foot, as someone else said, design has alot to do with strength, but if square were better overall, that's what we would build roll cages, tube buggies, and race cars out of, plus I think round just looks better on tacos since there's not one flat surface on the whole truck, just my :2cents:


Don't they use round tube for all that stuff because it is easier to bend into all the crazy angles they need it to?

[04RedLobster]

Hey Thomas, did you check with Carolina Rock Shop on sliders? Last time I talked to them he quoted me like $200-225 on round sliders.
haha not yet..i will check on that...soon or later..i'm going to ask michael bowen first since he actually work on tacomas....not like carolina rockshop...even though they do work on some..not many...mainly jeeps...so i'm gonna check with michael first this weekend..and ask him on some quotes

[04RedLobster]

If you guys are just talking about the difference in strength between tubing shapes, then square/rectangular tubing is stronger than round tubing of the same diameter and thickness when you can control what loads it's subjected to, like framerails, I-beams, etc. which are designed to carry vertical loads or take side-impacts. Square tubing is only stronger than round tubing when two sides are perpendicular to the force acting on it. Round tubing is stronger in applications where you can't always anticipate where the load/force/impact/whatever is going to come from (like rollcages). As far as which one to use for sliders, it really shouldn't matter. I prefer round tubing and we used 1.5" x .188-wall DOM for the sliders on our Tacoma.
what about performance wise....does one differ from another?

[JESSE_at_TLT]

Yes, they do perform differently, but we're only talking about sliders, right? If they're braced properly, there shouldn't be a long enough unsupported area of tubing that is would really matter.

[zosimov21]

Just go for the round ones Thomas. You don't wheel hard enough yet to warrant anything stronger :p

[04RedLobster]

hey! i'm looking at the big picture here! lol
but you are true about me not wheeling hard enough....yet..haha
oh well in times in times...i'm still a young one...

[zosimov21]

I'm just yanking your chain Thomas! ;) You need to get your sliders before we do a NCTTORA run to Tellico, I'm thinking May'ish. URE not so much, but they can help protect against tree rash if nothing but keeping your door panel off by 2".

[zosimov21]

I believe Michael makes round tube sliders

http://www.rockdustfab.com/albums/Tacoma-Products/2003_0103Image0028.sized.jpg

I would want you to make sure he cuts the diamond plates that weld to the frame for the sliders to attach to.

[04RedLobster]

haha..yeah..def need some sliders for tellico...
yeah those sliders would def helped when i wheeled taht day..lol
oh well lesson learned...plus i guess i'll drive more smart next time...shouldn't have taken that path..haha

[cb77DEMELLO]

while IMO round looks better, it's no secret sqaure tubeing is stronger! If you don't believe that, next time your on a run check out all the sqaure sliders and round, you will be hard pressed to find a bent sqaure tube sliders. where as round will have dents and some will bend.

Design does play a huge factor in it. We have changed our round tube sliders a couple times, going with bigger tube, bigger gussets and better mounts. I have gotten to the point with our heavy duty round sliders that it's hard to actully bend the tube but if you hit it hard enough you can ding the tube. The one's on my truck have a couple dents. But those were either hard impacts or times when my truck was being pulled up and over a rock wall in AZ and the sliders were the only thing hitting the ground!

Anther factor no one has mentioned and the reason why some people get differnt results is the weight of the truck. when someone ask me what style slider they should go with the first question is what do they have on there truck? If it's a stock truck with som 32's and they don't wheel the hammers. I recomend the standard rounds. But if they call up and tell me they have a camper shell 600lb of tools in the bed. And when they wheel they bring 5 gas cans with them, I recomend the hybrid or sqaure tubing.

[Captkirkyota]

Having had both, I will offer my first hand experience into the mix. The square ones were way stronger and took the abuse I laid on them with a smile and not dents at all and trust me they had some HARD hits. Thew downfall IMO to square was the larger surface area when sliding over stuff, which happens more than one thinks, round being of consistent shape at all angles has less drag as a result. I have definitely noticed this on trails I've run, but my round ones show in PLENTY of spots the hits they've taken, I think DO's hybrid design will help with the drag since they are edge down, I know you are thinking that I'm full of it, but at least it seemed for me that my sliders were used more on the bottoms of them then on the sides etc , yes they did get used on the edges when tilted, but going up a waterfall, or over a big rock, one more often tries to be more level, than on the tilt. :D

[cb77DEMELLO]

Having had both, I will offer my first hand experience into the mix. The square ones were way stronger and took the abuse I laid on them with a smile and not dents at all and trust me they had some HARD hits. Thew downfall IMO to square was the larger surface area when sliding over stuff, which happens more than one thinks, round being of consistent shape at all angles has less drag as a result. I have definitely noticed this on trails I've run, but my round ones show in PLENTY of spots the hits they've taken, I think DO's hybrid design will help with the drag since they are edge down, I know you are thinking that I'm full of it, but at least it seemed for me that my sliders were used more on the bottoms of them then on the sides etc , yes they did get used on the edges when tilted, but going up a waterfall, or over a big rock, one more often tries to be more level, than on the tilt. :DI forgot about that point. Your right. and this goes back to whats better for the trail?

My round ones seem to miss allot more contact than trucks with sqaure ones. But sometimes when I'm leaning towards a wall I kinda wish I had the squares to push me away.

One style I can't stand is the kick out. I know something people swear by them but all the ones I have seen on the trail act like a big grab point! hanging up on every rock and tree along the way.

Maybe a hydrolic slider is the way to go:) Push a button and they push you away from the rock. Ok that's way to much thought on a slider..lol. DO's new hydrolic sliders 1800.00 on sell next week..lol

[RENEGADE76254]

i work at a metal fabrication shop in designin parts and such and it is proven that round tubing is better than square when based on the principle of round tubing has no bends or creases in it. where square tube had bends and is therefore not as structurally sound all around. if you roll for ex. the square would have more strength b/c it is being pushed across the evel surface where as the round would more likely bend.

IMO round is better based on my experiacne, just remember most prerunner bumpers and components are tube, everyroll cage i have seen is tube, and the list could go on. but for average wheelin it is prefrence, but for hard core i would go tube anyday.

[04RedLobster]

haha thanks for all the inputs guys!

[Marcopolo]

DO's new hydrolic sliders 1800.00 on sell next week..lol

I will buy it. haha :D

[TacoDell]

I don't know so... wouldn't it be important to have some give so as not to put the load/impact completely on the frame? Or is that negligable? I know sliders are much cheaper than a frame...

[Kyota]

Yeah, I would imagine as well. Try fitting up asquare tube to a square tube in a 3-axis scenario! A lot of grinding...haha unless you can somehow notch it...sure.

Also, with the particular process that it takes to make chromoly, or other higher strength steels of the sort, I THINK it would be much more difficult to make square seamless steel. Seams are a weakpoint, of course. Although it may be produced the same way as with round (seamless) tubing (if it is, I have never heard [nor looked] of it), it would take a little more care.

[equin]

I don't know which is better or stronger, but isn't easier to use a hi-lift jack on square tubing?

[zszac111]

Mine are .120 wall tube but I don't know if there is a difference in strength vs the square ones.

.120 wall HREW, DOM, ERW, tubing or pipe?there is a big difference in all those, i know ive dropped my truck off a 4' rock onto my sliders and it did nothing besides make my teeth feel like they were going to fall out of my head. they are 1.50" .188 wall DOM.

[cb77DEMELLO]

I don't know so... wouldn't it be important to have some give so as not to put the load/impact completely on the frame? Or is that negligable? I know sliders are much cheaper than a frame...

depends on where the give is? I try to keep ours short and tucked up so there is not a large amount of leverage. I also keep the mounting brackets 3in wide so it evens out the load. As thin as the frame is I don't think it would bend first but dent in where ever the sliders mount contacts the frame.

[zosimov21]

Jason we get the TTORA 90% discount on the hydrolic sliders right? :D

[cb77DEMELLO]

Jason we get the TTORA 90% discount on the hydrolic sliders right? :DJust for you!

[zosimov21]

Just for you!

Cool now I only have to pay shipping plus R & D :D

[wyomountaineer]

I've been following this thread since I'm trying to make a similar decision between round sliders and rock crusher sliders. My dilema is that one of side benefits of sliders will be a step for my son to make it a little easier for him to climb in (he's 4). He can struggle up now, but has repeatedly asked for a step. I realize that the rock crushers provide more of a running board type step, but I prefer the looks of round sliders.

So here's my question- does anyone have pics of round or rock crushers looking down the side of the truck that gives a good indication of how far they stick out and just how much of a step each create?

Thanks

[bigairrider01]

these are stubbs welding deluxe sliders

[cb77DEMELLO]

I've been following this thread since I'm trying to make a similar decision between round sliders and rock crusher sliders. My dilema is that one of side benefits of sliders will be a step for my son to make it a little easier for him to climb in (he's 4). He can struggle up now, but has repeatedly asked for a step. I realize that the rock crushers provide more of a running board type step, but I prefer the looks of round sliders.

So here's my question- does anyone have pics of round or rock crushers looking down the side of the truck that gives a good indication of how far they stick out and just how much of a step each create?

Thanks

Send me an e-mail I have the picture your looking for jason@demello-offroad.com

[boylem002]

I just got Jason's round sliders and I needed a step for my g/f to get in (not 4yrs old, but just about as short!). The heavy duty sliders give a nice step, and stick out about 3-4" from the bottom of the door. I put some grip tape on the top area where she steps just to insure footing. They work nicely. The rock crushers are huge! I've seen a few people re-selling theirs because they're too wide and resemble more of a running board than a slider.

[dezertdog]

I think there comes a point where it doesn't matter round or square.

It's all in the design:

http://ilkstead.com/wattora/sliders/layout.jpg
http://ilkstead.com/wattora/sliders/pre_paint.jpg
http://ilkstead.com/wattora/sliders/close_up_f.jpg
http://ilkstead.com/wattora/sliders/close_up_r.jpg
http://ilkstead.com/wattora/sliders/truck_front.jpg
http://ilkstead.com/wattora/sliders/wide_rear.jpg

[DrVic@BallisticFab]

The ONLY reason square is better than round for sliders is because is really easy to pick up some .250 wall square tube. If you made your sliders from .250 2" round, I would want to see what could damage those (as well as square...) The point is, .120 wall square bends too, just ask tacominator (Jake).

[DrVic@BallisticFab]

Also, with the particular process that it takes to make chromoly, or other higher strength steels of the sort, I THINK it would be much more difficult to make square seamless steel. Seams are a weakpoint, of course. Although it may be produced the same way as with round (seamless) tubing (if it is, I have never heard [nor looked] of it), it would take a little more care.

I have never seen square tube crack at the seam when welded correctly have you guys?

[lockedyoAt]

"I have never seen square tube crack at the seam when welded correctly have you guys?"

nope