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Tires balanced, now new vibration

9K views 28 replies 11 participants last post by  TheosTaco 
#1 ·
2004 3.4L Extra Cab Prerunner 265 75R 16 and ass ugly stock steel wheels

Bought this truck a month ago or so with a brand new set of tires on it. I noticed a pretty obnoxious vibration around 55-60 MPH, never experienced it at any other speed. I figured surely to god they'd of balanced those tires when they put them on.

Anyways I said to hell with it and took it to a decently reputable shop and had them rebalance the tires. The guy doing it said whoever balanced them the first time did a half assed job and that he got it set up right for me. I took off and sure enough the vibration was gone - now it's at 65-70. Feels exactly the same, just moved up in the speed.

Is this still a balance issue? Is it worth doing those 1/4" carrier bearing drop shims to see if that does anything? Any easy way to check for a warped/bent rim? Frustrating as hell now, since this is my highway cruising speed and it feels like I'm runnin' down a dirt road at that speed.
 
#2 ·
Stock height? Even if it's lifted 3" it should not need a carrier bearing drop at all. I'm lifted 7" over stock and I only did axle shims, and a 1/4" carrier bearing spacer.

Is the driveline greased? If not, when was the last time it was done? Did you see them do the balancing? Did they do a static or a dynamic balance? Was the balance zeroed out?
 
#3 ·
No lift, the carrier bearing shims are a stupid idea in this case, I'm just stumped on this vibration.

I really couldn't see well enough to say if there's new grease on the drive shafts, when I get back home this weekend I can knock that one out.

As far as the balancing, it was some kind of hand cranked deal that the old boy swore was the greatest thing in the world for accurately balancing tires, but I may have got corn holed on that. I was yapping on the phone the whole time so I really didn't pay much attention to it.

For the fact the vibration moved to a different speed after the balancing I guess it's still a possibility they aren't balanced correct. I need to check and make sure a weight didn't fall off before I keep having y'all troubleshooting this.

EDIT: Has 1 oz weights on both front and the driver side rear tire. 1.5 oz on rear passenger side, not that it really matters. Still stumped.
 
#5 ·
The term static in engineering refers to a motionless system, and dynamic refers to a system in motion.
Technically the difference of a bubble balance and a spin balance.

Others relate differently...

A static imbalance creates a hop or vertical vibration. The dynamic imbalance creates a side-to-side or wobbling vibration. Most assemblies have both types of imbalance, and require dynamic balancing (commonly referred to as spin balancing) to create even weight distribution. The balancing system directs a technician to place counter weights on the rim's outer surface to offset the imbalance. When the balancing system tests for virtually perfect weight distribution, the assembly is in balance and will not vibrate. Your tires will ride smoothly and wear evenly with regard to balance.

^ regardless of the technical jargon...

bottom line...
1st gen tacoma's are lug centric
whereas later models may be hub centric.

I recommend spin balancing...
as well as installing weights to both sides of the wheel's rim
to properly balance out a tire... effectively zeroing out any imbalance.

One issue with some of the oem tacoma wheels is that...
the rear opening does not correctly line up with common sized backing cones.
So this could make for a failure in balancing.

I would recommend that a LC backing plate be used...
LC should be a plate that mounts to the lug holes of the wheel's backside.
Not all spin balance business use these, nor have them available.

Toyota uses a lug centric backing plate when they balance tacoma wheels.
^ 'least muh dealership does

I had to specifically request that my local Americas tire (discount tire) get on board with my request for using a LC backing plate...
they did... because they wanted to sell me tires ;)

also...
you might want to check other things as well...
and omit that they could be of issue.


Bent wheel
Tire out of round (radial or lateral runout)
Wheel-to-axle mounting error
Inconsistent tire sidewall stiffness (force variation)
Brake component wear or failure
Drive train or engine component wear or failure
Suspension wear or failure
Wheel bearing wear or failure
Wheel alignment is out
 
#7 ·
Christ I think I'd go bankrupt trying to diagnose everything you listed... Realistically, I'm going to grease the driveshaft, check the brake system and no improvement I'll see about getting my tires balanced at a dealership and see what happens.

Wouldn't the fact the vibration shifted after a balance suggest that the alignment should be in check or close to it?

Anyways I appreciate the info on the balancing process, never realized there was that much to it...
 
#8 ·
next time I'll sugar coat it for ya...
and tell you that yer vibration issues are simply in your mind :p

The fact that your vibration speed changed
after a do over on the balancing...
makes me believe... they're still not balanced correctly.

I could be wrong of course...
...if something mechanical is worn or failing.

I usually have my alignment checked annually...
commonly... when I take it off road on a moderate trail...
the alignment (specifically toe) gets knock outta spec.

If it's real bad and I can feel it...
I may need to have the alignment checked prior to my annual.
My shop charges me half the price of the full alignment...
to re-set the toe :mad: oh well... comes with the territory

^ here's where the "lifetime alignment" deal comes in handy...
however... no alignment shops in my town, offers that any longer.

Most alignment shops offer at least some period for warranty...
mine is only covered for 6 months tho' :(
 
#10 ·
I'm having a similar problem but mine begins to shake around 70mph. I've altered the tire pressure and it makes a bit of a difference but it still gets a bit of a shake. Of course, I'm not currently running my stock 16's and went down to some old 15x8 mickey thompson classics. The last place who balanced them *cough*Sears*cough* put weights on the outside of the rims and scratched & put big gouges in the aluminum...those asshats. They told me that the tires(that are practically brand new) had uneven wear. I don't know what to think apart from that if they have uneven wear & the alignment is still off, the wear isn't going to improve. The wheels are old...Mickey Thompson stopped making the original aluminum classics years back...maybe the wheels are bent or something(probably not this though).

Cohutta....let me know how you resolved your vibration issue.
 
#11 ·
I never resolved this problem. I ignored the advice of the posters advising finding a lug-centric balancing machine to get it done and instead went to another shop (buddy of mine I trust with this stuff) and watched him balance the tires. The result? Now the vibration has shifted to 62-64 MPH. Go figure.

Fortunately I didn't pay a penny for this balance but it definitely points towards the original posts that said to find a lug-centric balancing machine. I'm preparing to replace my brake rotors/pads Friday and after I get that done I'm gonna go find a dealer with a lug-centric unit. I'll post the results after I run some place down, this vibration is goddamn infuriating.
 
#13 ·
I've had a vibration for awhile now too, starts at about 50 and continues after that. The steering wheel shakes back and forth so I had America's tire check just the fronts, they stripped the weights and rebalanced, said they were a little off. Changed a little but still there.

I mentioned getting an alignment if the problem was still there, they didn't think that alignment was the problem and blamed it on the uneven wear of the tires, they are mtr's that have started to cup even though I rotate at least every 6000 mi. If not more often. I tried moving the fronts (rebalanced) to the rear and thought it helped a little but now it feels the same as before. It is very annoying and uncomfortable. Unfortunately I'm not ready to buy new tires and these ones actually have a good amount of tread just slightly uneven wear.

What does the wear look like on your tires?
 
#14 · (Edited)
all things must be in order to keep tire wear even.

alignment
tire/wheel balance
mechanical components
air pressure (tire)

during an alignment...
a good tech should be able to point out worn components
because the alignment specs will never read constant.
If play or movement occurs during an alignment...
then imagine the movement occuring when driven :eek:

1st gen. tacoma are oddball with their lug centric design
many tire/wheel shops have chevy on 'da brain.
Using a lug centric backing plate when spin balancing
will normally rule out most tire imbalance issues.

Three alignment gremlins, (uneven tire wear)
are play in the steering rack's mounting and linkage
* all below can cause variable toe settings.

#1...worn/loose rack mount bushings
The rack tends to move most at the C bushing (pass side)
turn the steering wheel abruptly right/left while looking (2 idiots required):D

#2...worn inner tie rods
any amount of play and the toe settings will vary when driven.
movement can be felt by placing hand on suspect itre
while turning steering wheel abruptly R/L (again 2 idiots) :D

#3...loose inner rack guide
if the inner rack can move up/down slightly within the rack housing...
that will cause the toe settings to vary when driven. (single idiot) :p

^ if the inner rack continues this movement without correction...
it will eventually damage the end seals of the rack and bleed out.


Tire air pressure is a no brainer
but is critical for proper tire wear.
hint! it is not the max psi stamped on yer tire, nor likely what's on the door jamb :rolleyes:

I recommend the chalk test on the lugs cross section.
this will assure the tire is making proper surface contact.
Tire air pressure will vary as to your vehicles weight.

yes I wuz bored :eek:
 
#15 ·
I've learned to live with vibrations, but that kinda comes with the territory when you have 35"+ mudders and a 25 year old truck :p I don't usually get vibrations until I go over 100km/h, so I just keep it around 90-95. Luckily I don't have to drive too far for work.
 
#17 ·
The most obvious cause is an out of balance tire -or a bent rim -or- a shitty tire. I had some BFG tires that never felt balanced worth a shit.

Like was posted prior, a worn tie rod could cause a vibration, as could a carrier bearing going bad. Generally I think a bad carrier kicks in on the deceleration though.
 
#19 ·
Naw, no problem, I'd love to say I made some progress on this but honestly after I got the vibration shifted to the 62-64 MPH range I said to hell with it and let it be. I very rarely cruise at that speed and I don't have time to chase down whatever the hell is wrong with it. The old boy at the last shop who rotated my tires last said they were some cheap ass tires (Nexxus?) which aren't made worth a damn and they may just be unbalance-able due to the shitty construction. I figure after they wear out I'll get a new wheel/tire combo and see where that leads me. Honestly the vibration is as good as it's ever been since I've owned it so I'm not gonna complain at this point.
 
#20 ·
Gotcha. I took in my truck to Big Brand Tire in Goleta the other day to see the the heck was going on with the vibration I'm experiencing. They said the tires are showing "cupping" and uneven wear due to my poor suspension. Eh, sucks but...whatcha gonna do? I'm sick to death of my saggy suspension and so I'm planning on putting some Icons in.
 
#21 ·
I used to be in the same boat as you. I was very very picky about how my tires were balanced. One time, I took it to Toyota and they in fact balanced in with the LC backing plate. Put a fuck ton of weights on it. Rode like crap. They were sticky weights. So I got under the truck and pryed off about 2/3 of each weight on each rim, removing only the outside thirds of each weight sections (to keep the weight centered). Made it ride a whole lot better. ******* engineering? I guess so.

Speakin' of ********, my friend put crappy brand 33s on his '12 Tacoma without any balancing weights and it rode like butter on the highway. Methinks big tires don't really need balancing so much. Just me though.
 
#22 · (Edited)
I think I might have found the culprit that is responsible for the vibration at higher speeds(5th gear...65+). I took the drivers side wheel off and grabbed the hub, one hand on the calliper side and the other on the right. I tested it for play by moving the whole assembly from side to side. It was moving around like an 8th to a 16th of an inch. The bolt at the bottom that has the cotter pin through it was loose. I'm not too sure how much that have to be torqued down...anyone know?

Theo

 
#25 · (Edited)
I just dropped the truck off at America's Tire and requested them to balance the wheels using a Lug Centric Backing Plate like Dell recommended. They are balancing & rotating. I hope this fixes the vibration issue.*crossesfingers*

Here is a picture of what they are said they are going to use:

 
#26 ·
Ok, I just got home from an acquaintance's house who happens to be a Toyota Master Technician. We pinned the vibration down to a center bushing that goes around the drive shaft.
 
#28 ·
If it's a carrier bearing vibration, you're going to feel it because it's directly underneath you. They do need to be replaced at certain points in time. I've got 135k on my truck and have yet to replace it, although it's getting about time to do so. I am not sure if that part will be any better/worse than an OEM part. Maybe some others can chime in.

That being said, I can tell a distinct difference between driveshaft vibes and tire vibes. It's a different feel and location. Tire vibes tend to have a lower frequency than a driveshaft vibe since the tires spin more slowly than the driveshaft per second.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Well, all I can say is when I go over bumps while driving I can hear a "clunking" sound coming from underneith the truck. At first I thought it was the new 5100's I unstalled up front but, I had a Toyota master Tech check that out and he said i did it right. We then drove the truck around with him in the bed as I went over bumps so he could hear where the sound was coming from. We both came to the conclusing that it more than likely was the Drive Shaft Support Bearing aka Carrier Bearing. Would you recommend replacing anything else while I'm in there swapping out this part?

:EDIT:

I found a decent writeup on replacing the Center Support Bearing
http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/1st-gen-tacomas/260283-how-replacing-carrier-bearing.html
I think I may have a shop rebalance my driveshaft as well to make sure all is good.
 
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