front bumper fab question

[shovelracer]

Starting to make up plans for a front bumper. i have two questions.

1) What is the purpose of a stinger?

2) Some are airbag approved. What is this and do I need to be concerned about the legallity of making my own?

[AK98Taco]

1) What is the purpose of a stinger?


The stinger can help prevent front end-overs and also protects the radiator and engine in the event that the truck does roll.

[synovus]

"May" protect the radiator in a rollover. ;) Stingers are also great for crossing crevasses in Greenland and Norway. :D

[shovelracer]

AK98TACO Those are Truxus MT's in your avitar right. I'm thinking of getting those. Not sure if they'll hold up to the mud I get into.

[AK98Taco]

AK98TACO Those are Truxus MT's in your avitar right. I'm thinking of getting those. Not sure if they'll hold up to the mud I get into.

Yes, they are. I'm sure they are superior to BFG M/Ts, or Firestones, or whatever else. They are probably far superior to Thornbirds, as those are an all terrain tire.

They are built for mud, but still do well in rocks and sand.

[shovelracer]

I would have to disagree about the thornbirds. They suck ass but they are no AT tire, unless your counting the siping. The particular size I have is much beefier than the others I've seen. Anyway I'm torn between 33 TSL Bias and 34 Trx MT. I understand the radial/bias difference. They need to kick ass in the rocks and clean mud well too.

[AK98Taco]

I would have to disagree about the thornbirds. They suck ass but they are no AT tire, unless your counting the siping. The particular size I have is much beefier than the others I've seen. Anyway I'm torn between 33 TSL Bias and 34 Trx MT. I understand the radial/bias difference. They need to kick ass in the rocks and clean mud well too.

Sorry; Interco calls it an A/T. I've never run them.

These are siped, clean well, and hook up well on all surfaces, but my next shoes will be 34" LTBs or TSLs.

[shovelracer]

When you find the perfect tire you never change. I'll take that to mean that even though they are good, they aren't the bomb. The search continues. TSL 34?

[mikerox]

"May" protect the radiator in a rollover. ;) Stingers are also great for crossing crevasses in Greenland and Norway. :D
how does a stinger get you across a crevass? would'nt the front tires be hanging in mid air in that sort of scenario?

[synovus]

how does a stinger get you across a crevass? would'nt the front tires be hanging in mid air in that sort of scenario?

That's where rear tires become really useful.

[mikerox]

ok. maybe i am slow. or maybe you are joking. but if you are hung up on the front bumper and the front tires are getting nothing but air, then the rear tires would just push you forward and not up and over?.. right?

[synovus]

Not joking. That's the purpose of the stinger, which is angled so that it rests on the other side of the crevasse, or other gap, and allows the rear tires to push the vehicle forward/up until the front tires grab and can assist in forward progress.

[Toyo4x4]

When you find the perfect tire you never change. I'll take that to mean that even though they are good, they aren't the bomb. The search continues. TSL 34?

I run them, and I also run the same terrain you do, and have had them at Paragon several times. They are a great tire that cleans out well in the mud and are very good in the rocks. I don't know if you are concerned about tread life but the LTB's aren't going to hold up for half as long as the Trxus. The TSL radials can get decent mileage out of them if taken care of. If mileage isn't a concern, then yes there are better tires out there then the Trxus, but I need a tire with decent road manners, and this tire does it all. Just my :2cents:

[Intrepid]

I would say it really depends on what kind of driving you do, when you aren't on the trail. If you have to do any sort of commuting, I would say, get the TrXus, if you basically do only trail then get the TSL's.

[AK98Taco]

When you find the perfect tire you never change. I'll take that to mean that even though they are good, they aren't the bomb. The search continues. TSL 34?

Exactly.

I haven't rotated mine yet, as it requires swapping the tires amongst the wheels, but they are wearing acceptably.

Wheeled in a ton of snow today, without airing down, and they (with my locker) kept me moving.

LTBs or TSLs are next, or maybe IROKs if they start making a 33 for a 15" wheel.

[mikerox]

Not joking. That's the purpose of the stinger, which is angled so that it rests on the other side of the crevasse, or other gap, and allows the rear tires to push the vehicle forward/up until the front tires grab and can assist in forward progress.
wow . i thought i pushed my truck hard. that would be interesting to see.

[shovelracer]

To use it like described it would need to start low. A lot you see are at the top of the winch. If you dropped into a crevas with a lot of the ones around you would rip off the lights, fairlead, etc. before it did its job. The rollover protection isn't really my concern. If it goes that far your going over anyways. Not a lot of frozen tundra or crevasses around hear.

[Toyo4x4]

To use it like described it would need to start low. A lot you see are at the top of the winch. If you dropped into a crevas with a lot of the ones around you would rip off the lights, fairlead, etc. before it did its job. The rollover protection isn't really my concern. If it goes that far your going over anyways. Not a lot of frozen tundra or crevasses around hear.

Sounds like you've talked yourself out of it already...don't see why you would want to build one unless it's for looks then. I have one on my bumper and although I don't think I will use it for it's intended purposes, it certainly does serve a function. I've seen pictures of rigs nosed into an obstacle with the stinger, and they certainly aren't ripping lights or fairleads off. Not sure what you mean about that. But hey build what you think looks best, you're right you won't be running into those issues much at Paragon/Rausch, etc.

[mikerox]

To use it like described it would need to start low. A lot you see are at the top of the winch. If you dropped into a crevas with a lot of the ones around you would rip off the lights, fairlead, etc. before it did its job. The rollover protection isn't really my concern. If it goes that far your going over anyways. Not a lot of frozen tundra or crevasses around hear.

that'a what i guess i have been trying to say in this thread. it seems like you would just get hung up because the apraoch anngle is so steep and i have not seen one that would provide a smooth transition from the stinger that would allow for the front tires to lock up and get some traction.

[Paul]

i have not seen one that would provide a smooth transition from the stinger that would allow for the front tires to lock up and get some traction.
http://www.ttora.com/tacozilla/42s_mounted1.jpg

[mikerox]

now that looks like it would work probrerly.

[shovelracer]

Yea my question was just curiousity. My real concern was the issue with the airbags. Not that I care if they don't go off, actually I'd prefer it, but the legallity of the bumper itself. Who or what is airbag approved.

I'll try to dig up a pic of some poor stinger designs that explain what I was talking about.

[Toyo4x4]

that'a what i guess i have been trying to say in this thread. it seems like you would just get hung up because the apraoch anngle is so steep and i have not seen one that would provide a smooth transition from the stinger that would allow for the front tires to lock up and get some traction.

I do see what you are saying. Mine wouldn't simply slide at an angle to allow the tires to hook up, because my fairlead would get hung up. But on stingers truly designed solely for that purpose like on Tacozilla's rig pictured here, it would work as it's intended.

Here's my side profile. You can see it actually only angles to small degree, then the bumper is square off.

http://www.pa-tacomas.com/gallery/albums/mhensler/P7220031.sized.jpg

[Toyo4x4]

Yea my question was just curiousity. My real concern was the issue with the airbags. Not that I care if they don't go off, actually I'd prefer it, but the legallity of the bumper itself. Who or what is airbag approved.

I'll try to dig up a pic of some poor stinger designs that explain what I was talking about.

There was a discussion about this pretty extensively regarding the air bag sensors and the ARB bumper. The crumple zones are within the inner fenders on up to 04's. The ARBs for example are air bag "approved" because they have tested them with the bumper on. But as far as affecting the crumple zones, they aren't in your stock tupperware, so it won't matter.

[Paul]

Yea my question was just curiousity. My real concern was the issue with the airbags. Not that I care if they don't go off, actually I'd prefer it, but the legallity of the bumper itself. Who or what is airbag approved.

I'll try to dig up a pic of some poor stinger designs that explain what I was talking about.
The airbags will still go off. They are inertia based for the most part.

[AK98Taco]

Yea my question was just curiousity. My real concern was the issue with the airbags. Not that I care if they don't go off, actually I'd prefer it, but the legallity of the bumper itself. Who or what is airbag approved.

I'll try to dig up a pic of some poor stinger designs that explain what I was talking about.

The airbags are activated by the sensor assembly based on inputs from the sensors on the frame rail (one on each side).

I think the airbag safe consideration comes from the way the bumper mounts to the frame. The '98-'00 trucks have 3" frame extensions designed to crush on impact. If the crush section is eliminated the rate of negative acceleration upon impact is increased.

[Toyo4x4]

The airbags are activated by the sensor assembly based on inputs from the sensors on the frame rail (one on each side).

I think the airbag safe consideration comes from the way the bumper mounts to the frame. The '98-'00 trucks have 3" frame extensions designed to crush on impact. If the crush section is eliminated the rate of negative acceleration upon impact is increased.

Hmm... I always thought they were in the fenders...guess I learned something today.

[TTORupTACO]

I'm not sure exactly what's being talked about but I can say I put my prerunner thru a block wall (NOT!my fault!!)BUT MY AIR BAGS did'nt go off.If it helps (?)you should'nt need to worry about such tghings if offroading responsibly.BUT,I'm into an 18 pack & it's sunday,SO,EEEF MEEE!!!Who gives a eeff about legality, it's a f#%&$ing ticket,It's on you to decide what you're safe with!

[Toyo4x4]

I'm not sure exactly what's being talked about but I can say I put my prerunner thru a block wall (NOT!my fault!!)BUT MY AIR BAGS did'nt go off.If it helps (?)you should'nt need to worry about such tghings if offroading responsibly.BUT,I'm into an 18 pack & it's sunday,SO,EEEF MEEE!!!Who gives a eeff about legality, it's a f#%&$ing ticket,It's on you to decide what you're safe with!

Insightful...

[shovelracer]

I remember that show. It was pretty sick. Those LC's were heavily modified. That was how I learned of the lighter fluid trick. Although it existed long before that. That was several years ago. Those were sweet though.

I have heard before that the sensors for the airbag were on the frame, but I'm not sure. I thought they were one of the deals behind the bumper to the side of the radiator. Any pics. Not that I really care about the legallity, I just like to know if i'm right when I have the discussion with HP or inspection.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c345/shovelracer/winch0052.jpg

[equin]

I'm not sure exactly what's being talked about but I can say I put my prerunner thru a block wall (NOT!my fault!!)BUT MY AIR BAGS did'nt go off.If it helps (?)you should'nt need to worry about such tghings if offroading responsibly.BUT,I'm into an 18 pack & it's sunday,SO,EEEF MEEE!!!Who gives a eeff about legality, it's a f#%&$ing ticket,It's on you to decide what you're safe with!

The airbag in the 99 I used to own didn't go off either after I accidentally slammed head-on into a solid earthen berm at 35-40 mph. However, the front end was protected by a prerunner bumper made out of 1.5" x .120" wall tubing bolted on with 10 grade-8 bolts total and a 1/4" thick aluminum skid plate. The bumper bent very slightly from the impact, but the airbags never deployed for some reason.

Anyway, I could be wrong, but by "legality" I think he really means "liability." My guess is that he's worried that the airbags will not deploy on a head-on impact, resulting in an injured passenger whose injuries may have been prevented had the airbags otherwise deployed. If his liability insurance refuses to cover the injured passenger's hospital bills on the basis that the custom bumper modification compromised proper airbag deployment, then yeah, he could face some serious financial trouble if the passenger or the passenger's own health insurance decides to sue him to recoup those medical costs.

[AK98Taco]

I have heard before that the sensors for the airbag were on the frame, but I'm not sure. I thought they were one of the deals behind the bumper to the side of the radiator. Any pics. Not that I really care about the legallity, I just like to know if i'm right when I have the discussion with HP or inspection.


It could be different on varying years and equipment.

Anything with a yellow connector will be part of the SRS system.

[BIGTOYOTA]

You can look under the battery and under the air box on the inner fender
for the sensor one on each side.

[BIGTOYOTA]

You can use the stinger to get up on some rocks.