'03 PreRunner --> 4x4 SAS

[Revivalist]

** Edited to show "before" and "after" pics . . .

Well, I decided to overhaul my 2003 Tacoma PreRunner and turn it into a rig that can perform a little better off-road. Here’s the plan in a nutshell:

IFS --> Solid axle (with front e-locker)
2WD --> 4WD
No T-case --> Dual T-cases
4.11 gears in back --> 5.29 gears front and back
Stock height --> 5” spring lift
Stock wheels --> 37” MT/Rs
No armor --> Sliders, bumpers, and a winch!

Here’s some pics of the stock rig I picked up in June 06. . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/01-Truck%20pics/01-Stock%20truck/02-ToyotaTacoma3.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/01-Truck%20pics/01-Stock%20truck/05-ToyotaTacoma6.jpg


And here's some pics of the rig in July 08 . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/01-Truck%20pics/07-Current%20setup/Driveway15.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/Tube%20doors/tubedoors2.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/02-Off-Road%20Trips/12-Dusy%20Ershim%208-07/Dusy-Ershim8-0773.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/02-Off-Road%20Trips/12-Dusy%20Ershim%208-07/Dusy-Ershim8-0774.jpg


As for the rest of the story on how this happened, . . . here it goes . . .

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So I’ve done lots and lots of research to figure out what the best options are. So far, here are the parts I already have . . .

1. Custom IFS Eliminator Kit from Trail Gear

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS%20and%204WD%20conversion/SASParts2.jpg

It’s “custom” because some of the components were removed that won’t work with my 03 Tacoma sine the whole kit is made for a 79-85 Pickup or 4Runner. The parts I got are the following:

• 5" Springs – Front
• Front Spring Hanger
• Shackles Front Offset 5"
• Steering Stabilizer Kit
• Shock Hoops, 14"
• Bilstein 5125 14" Shocks
• Bumpstop Extensions
• Bumpstops
• Motor Mount Plates

2. Rear Lift Kit from Trail Gear

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS%20and%204WD%20conversion/SASParts1.jpg

• 5" Springs – Rear
• Welded Spring Hangers
• Rear Shackle Mounts
• Shackles Rear Wide 5"
• Bilstein 5125 12" Shocks
• Lower Shock Mounts
• U-bolt Flip Kit Rear
• Brake Line, Individual Rear F-M
• Three Hole Spring Perches
• Greasable Spring Bolts & Bushings

------------------------------------------------

Ok, so here are the parts that I know I still need to obtain:

-- For 4WD Conversion --
• 4x4 Transmission
• Stock T-case
• Second T-case
• T-case mount
• Dual transfer case crossmember
• Floor shift plate
• 4WD shifter boots (exterior and interior)
• Interior plastics
• Speed sensor (if 4WD transmission doesn’t come with one)

-- For SAS --
• Front Axle (FJ80)
• Hub assembly (if it doesn’t come with axle) (new or junkyard)
• New brakes and caliper (if the ones on axle can’t be used)
• Studs for wheel mount
• 5.29 gears (front and back)
• E-Locker
• Rear drive shaft
• Front drive shaft (brand new, lengthened 10” spline, balanced): $260 (Bentup.com)
• 37” mud terrain tires (that fit 16x8 rims)


I’ll be doing getting the work done this weekend with AJ from bentup.com. We already found an FJ80 full assembly, however the seller wanted $1100 for it. Is that a reasonable price? . . . . Also, we still need to figure out what we need to do for steering drag links on it.

Thanks for any tips or suggestions from anyone! :)

[Dirty White Boy]

I hope you plan on going full hydro. Steering box/draglink+FJ80 axle+leafs=a bitch.
I paid $1000 for my axle- '95 FZJ80, elocked, minus calipers and tie rod.

[Revivalist]

I wasn't planning on going hydro right away. But it sounds like I should . . . . I did pick up the IFS steering box that's drilled and tapped for hydro assist (http://www.trail-gear.com/steering.html). . .. Would it be hard to just add the actual hydro later?. . . . Also, is it possible to end breaking stuff more easily with the hydro since I figure it could put more stress on other parts?

Wow! So you paid $100 less and got the locker! . . . Hmmm, but the one I'm getting will have the calipers, tie rod and steering arms. So maybe it's about the same deal that you got . ..

The only thing I need to find is the drag links. Any idea on what to do for that?

[justinh]

Why not use a Bent-Up hanger designed for the Tacoma instead of the Trail-Gear one that wasn't designed for the Tacoma? I would lose the bodylift before doing it too, just my opinion though.

[jrizman]

lots of dudes run that setup, why would you have to go full hydro? this dude is doing without it:
http://bb.bc4x4.com/showthread.php?threadid=15211

i think he will be fine and can even make his own draglink if they have the materials and some ends...

dude:
u can get shit from trailgear or sky for the steering:
http://www.sky-manufacturing.com/steering1.htm

[Revivalist]

@ justinh - Yes, I actually returned the Trail-Gear spring hanger and I'll be using the one that Aj makes. . . . As for the body lift, I wanted to keep it for clearance so that I can run 37" tires. Otherwise, I'm told that it will rub. I can verify once the springs are put in and we flex it . . . Plus, I don't see why to waste all that work it took to put in the body lift to begin with . . . .

@ jrizman - Thanks for those links! Many good ideas there. I'll have to bring those to Aj's attention. . . .

[Dirty White Boy]

Those are OTT arms, which (as far as I know) are no longer available.

As far as the drag link, I had to piece mine together from the OE DL, a Sky pitman arm adapter, and some scrap tubing so that it would clear the leaf. It's total bootyfab and it ain't right, but it doesn't get driven on the road either.

[Dirty White Boy]

Oh, I have a 3" BL on mine too. It'll be coming off soon and I'll eventually run 40s. My fenders can handle it. :D

[Revivalist]

Well yesteday I had a great time at Marlin Crawler getting the tranny and Crawler. . . It's amazing how incredibly helpful and friendly Marlin is! . . . . He found a tranny that we expect should do the job. It's a 4x4 V6 Auto off a 2000 4Runner with 50,000 miles. . . . After lots of inspection at TAP, it seemed that it should work. (Of course, we'll only know for sure once it's in. . . .)

Here's Marlin getting the tail housing preped up for the Crawler . . .

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/VisitingMarlinCrawler4.jpg

He serviced the tranny right in the back of my truck. . . .

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/VisitingMarlinCrawler6.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/VisitingMarlinCrawler9.jpg

Meanwhile, Rocky getting the Dual Ultimate Crawler ready . . .

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/VisitingMarlinCrawler1.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/VisitingMarlinCrawler2.jpg

And here's me stouting my new toy!

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/VisitingMarlinCrawler5.jpg

In addition, I picked up the following:
• T-case mounts (2)
• Dual transfer case crossmember
• Twin stick shifter
• Speed sensor kit

I also ran by the Toyota dealer and picked up a T100 2WD oil pan, strainer, and gasket which give better clearance for the front driveline. . . .I'll add more pics of this stuff later. . . .

[Revivalist]

Well, we made a lot progress yesterday on the SAS and 4WD conversion. I hauled the parts up to Sacramento and met up with Aj to start on the work. Here’s some pics from the day’s work. . . .

Aj sorting through the parts . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS1.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS2.jpg


First we dropped the skid plates, bumper, and crush zone . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS3.jpg


Next came all the wheels, all the shocks, the upper and lower arms, the rack n’ pinion, the rear leaf packs, U-bolts, and bump stops . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS5.jpg


After that, Aj measured and cut a front crossmember support to strengthen the front of the frame. It was welded on just in front of the bottom of the radiator . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS6.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS10.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS20.jpg

[Revivalist]

Next it was time to cut off the IFS mounts on the frame. The plasma cutter made that a quick job . . . .

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS23.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS25.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS27.jpg


First one down . . .on to the second one behind it. . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS29.jpg


Hammering off the second . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS31.jpg


Next was torching off the remains of the IFS mounting area . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS35.jpg


The oxygen tank ran out so we couldn’t finish torching and go on to the grinding. It’ll have to be done later . . .. So we went on to remove the tranny. . . First we dropped the drive shaft and then Aj loosened up the tranny bolts. It was a lot easier getting to the bolts on top because of the 3” body lift. . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS42.jpg

[Revivalist]

We strapped the tranny to the tranny-lift and I stepped back to take another pic . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS45.jpg


After lifting the tranny off the jack, we set it down next to the 4x4 tranny and swapped some of the wiring. . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS48.jpg


One of the plugs was actually mounted from inside the trannys so we had to pull off the oil pans to swap them . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS50.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS51.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS52.jpg

[Revivalist]

I never saw the innards of a tranny before . . . pretty cool! . . . After putting the new tranny on the lift and jacking it up, we were happy to see that it mounted right in without any problems . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS58.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS59.jpg


Next we hoisted the Dual Ultimate Crawler on the jack and mounted it in . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS75.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS80.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS74.jpg


The only problem (which we already anticipated) is that the exhaust would have to be slightly rerouted. The second cat was right up against the output for the front drive shaft. . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS76.jpg


Aj said he could heat it and bend himself, or his buddy from Midas can take care of it later. . . .

[Revivalist]

Next we needed to swap the oil pan with one from a 2WD T100 which has the bulge on the back side instead of the front. That should give the clearance needed for the front axle to flex. Dropping the oil pan . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS67.jpg


Swapping the oil strainer . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS69.jpg


Prepping the new pan with a sealant and mounting it . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS71.jpg


Installing the new pan . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS73.jpg


The last thing we done that day was to prep the shackles and springs on the rear axle. The bolt holes on my current ToyTec shackles needed to be bored out for the bigger bolts and bushing of the new springs . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS85.jpg


We mounted the new springs and U-bolts to the axle and put the shackles back . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS87.jpg


That was really more than enough work for one day so we cleaned up shop and called it quits. We really can’t do a whole lot more until we wait for several parts to come in . . . .

[Revivalist]

Parts Still Needed

Now we basically need to wait for the following parts before we can continue . . .

• FJ-80 axle (Aj should be picking it up on Tuesday)
• High steer kit (Marlin said he can customize drag links when we send him measurements. The tie rod ends and pitman arm are also available. The only thing we’re waiting on is the steering arms. OTT says they will not make them anymore. However, 4x4 labs is going to get back to us about possibly building some.)
• Custom drive shafts (The front will have a lengthened 10” spline so it doesn’t fall out during full flex. Aj still needs to measure the drive line to order them.)
• Custom brake lines. (They need to be longer than the ones for the Toyota pickup.)
• Steering shaft (from Aj)
• 3 sets of drive shaft bolts (from Marlin)
• 3 T-case bolts
• Lots of oils & fluids (engine, tranny, t-cases, brakes, power steering, and gears) (I’m still waiting for a shipment of most of that from Amsoil!)


Labor that still needs to be done

The following are the tasks still ahead . . .

• Relocate rear spring mounts 3” forward, weld on shock mounts, bolt up rear springs with axle, and install rear shocks
• Install high steer kit
• Weld up front spring hanger, measure shackle angle for axle to be as far forward as possible, weld on shack mounts, bolt on shackles, and and bolt up front axle
• Weld up shock hoops and install front shocks
• Mount steering box (Aj will fabricate a mount for it since the one from Marlin is too big.)
• Modify and weld up dual t-case crossmember
• Modify center console to accommodate Marlin t-case shifter and twin stick
• Modify and reinstall catalytic converter
• Install drive shafts


A few questions . . .

The following are a few questions that we need to clear up to be sure the 4WD conversion is going to work. . .

• Why does the 2WD tranny seem to have 4 solenoids while the 4WD tranny has 3 solenoids? (The difference can be seen in this picture with Aj holding the wire inside the 2WD tranny.)


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS53.jpg


• What is the cable shifter on the 4x4 tranny that isn’t on the 2WD tranny? (I circled it in the following pictures.)


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS49edited.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/SAS73edited.jpg


• What is the best rout to take for steering? (Is there any other place that makes arms for the FJ-80? . . . If we can't find them, should we resort to low steering?)

[Interex]

Humm, that's strange. My PreRunner transmission had a cable for the throttle and every sensor matched. It came out of a '99 4Runner aswell:

http://haroldmiller.net/tacoma/albums/02-11-06/P2110568.sized.jpg

Not sure what to tell ya. :dunno:

[Revivalist]

Ok, at this point I just need to settle two issues to finish this project:

1. Is it possible to run a high steer setup on the FJ80 with front leaf springs, and if so then where can I get the steering arms? . . . We were in touch with OTT and they said they’re not making then because there isn’t enough demand. Plus, when Aj went to look at the axle, there didn’t seem to be any clear way to set it up. . . . Can anyone offer a conclusive way on how to do it? . . . Otherwise I’m going to have to resort back to a Dana44 . . .

2. I talked to Marlin yesterday about the differences between the transmissions (that shifter cable I mentioned and the 3 versus 4 solenoids). He doesn’t think it’s going to work. Right now it’s already installed. Should we measure out the drive line, order the drive shafts and given it a try? Or should we just take it out now before we possibly mess something up by trying to run it? . . . I’m already starting to look around for a better match tranny (2003, V6, 3.4L, auto from a 4x4) . . .

[Dirty White Boy]

As far as the steering arms, didn't you say that Slee and 4x4labs were working on some? If so, when will they be ready?

The transmissions- on my truck (2000) the innards were totally different than the T-100 transmission (different valvebody, # of solenoids, even the TC was different) that I'm running now. Everything plugged up the same externally and it works fine.

[Revivalist]

Wow, that's very helpful info. Thanks. I think we might as well give the tranny a try since it's already hooked up . . . .

As for the steering, we still didn't hear back from 4x4 labs. . . .

[Revivalist]

Well, I talked to Jim from inchworm today. (Super-nice guy, by the way!) . . . He had excellent input concerning the steering and the tranny. . . .

1. The steering: Jim says that he will get in touch with OTT to see if they will provide the steering arms for the FJ-80. When I called OTT before they said they won't make them anymore. But Jim said it's because of the hassle of shipping to them the knuckles to be machined, having the steering arms mounted, and then having them shipped back. . . . Jim says he can do the maching here in his shop. So he's going to see if they'll just ship him the arms and he will take care of the rest. . . . The only problem is that if they're willing to do it, it could take them as much as 6 weeks to send them!

2. The tranny: Jim has the adaptor to connect my 2WD tranny to the Dual Ultimate t-case! . . . So I wouldn't even have to use that 4WD tranny! I think that sounds like the best option . . .

By the way, for anyone who's interested, Jim was able to answer those questions I posted earlier about the tranny (in post #15). It turns out that the cable on the 2000 4WD tranny that we couldn't identify is supposed to connect to the throttle cable to tell the tranny how much throttle the truck is getting. (I guess it has something to do with the way it shifts.) The 2003 2WD tranny that I had on my truck didn't have this cable because the newer trannies have a computer that tells the tranny this info. This also has something to do with why the newer 2WD tranny has 4 solenoids while the older 4WD tranny only has 3. . . So he said that we could try just moving the extra solenoid from the 2WD to the 4WD tranny. . . Either that or just run the 2WD tranny with the adaptor. . . . I definitely chose the adaptor!

On a side note, today I was also offered a diamond axle that is ready hub to hub with chromoly shafts and 30-spline longfields, 5.29 gears, an e-locker, and a complete high steer setup. It's only been on a single run through the Rubicon. It's going for $6000. . .What do you guys think? Go that route or pressing with the FJ-80 and get gears, locker, etc. later?

[Interex]

Yes, that is the kick-down cable that tells the transmission to downshift if so much throttle is applied. Good to hear you are going with a divorced setup instead.

[Revivalist]

Alright, I've been doing more research and considering the following options . . .

• The axle: I think I'm giving up on the FJ80 and Dana44 and go with a custom Diamond axle. Here's all the advantages that I came up with for the Diamond:

-- General Advantages of the Diamond --
1. It's extremely strong and compact
2. I can decide the exact length I want to match my rear axle.
3. It's essentially a Toyota mini so I can get replacement parts from anywhere (Marlin Crawler, Trail Gear, Inchworm, etc.)
4. I can decide which side to put the differential
5. I don't have to go hunting through wrecking yards for a used axle

-- Advantages over FJ-80 --
6. The steering problem is solved (since I can get the high steer kit anywhere)
7. No paying to modify a FJ-80 housing for an e-locker

-- Advantages over Dana44 --
7. I can run the same gears front and back
8. I can run an e-locker
9. It can be high pinion

So here's what I think would be the price breakdown for the full front end:

-- Housing $900 (http://frontrangeoffroadfab.com/nfoscomm/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=121&osCsid=1a60dc7802066738fbce6be380026d16)
-- Locked differential (with 4.88 or 5.29 gears): $1300 (http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/diff/pickup_diff.htm)
-- 30-spline chromoly Birfields: $635 (http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/axles.htm)
-- Chromoly inner shafts: $200 (http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/axles.htm)-- Highsteer kit $400 (http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/axles.htm)
-- Did I miss anything?????

Total in parts: $3500

Are any of the following extra parts needed or helpful for the front end?
Knuckle ball kit??: $29 (http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/axles.htm)
Upper axle reinforcement gusset??: $25 (http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/axles.htm)
Differential armor??: $69 (http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/axles.htm)
Manual hubs??: $291 (http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/axles.htm)
E-locker motor guard??: $49 (http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/diff/pickup_diff.htm)


• The t-case: If I go with the Diamond, then should I see if Marlin will swap out the passenger side Dual Ultimate for a driver's side? If he's willing, then I don't have to hassle with rerouting the exhaust. . . .

• The ring and pinion gears: At first I was told to go with 5.29s. But after searching around on-line, all of the gear tables seem to indicate that 37" tires should use 4.88s for better gas ecomony. I know that this would sacrifice power on the trail, but I was thinking that the Dual Ultimate would easily make up for that, right? In fact, I was thinking that I could even run Dual 4.71 t-cases to bring the crawl ratio back up to where it was. Any thoughts? . . .

[AK98Taco]

-- Advantages over Dana44 --
7. I can run the same gears front and back
8. I can run an e-locker
9. It can be high pinion


-You can run an e-locker in the Dana 44, ask Dick Foster.
-You've never heard of the hi-pinion/reverse spiral Dana 44?
-There is no need for a diff cover on the Diamond Axle.

[Revivalist]

Wow, ok, I didn't know that. I guess that puts the Dana44 back on equal footing with the Diamond (except for strength I assume) . . .

The only thing is that I heard that the high pinion Dana44 is a bit more rare . . . Already I have to make sure that it comes off a Wagoneer so that it has the right bolt pattern. It would probably be even harder to make sure it has high pinion also, right? . . .

Oh yeah, and this point, since I already have the Dual Utlimate with a passenger side drop, I would need to make sure the pumpkin is on the right side as well. . . :eek:

[AK98Taco]

Wow, ok, I didn't know that. I guess that puts the Dana44 back on equal footing with the Diamond (except for strength I assume) . . .

The only thing is that I heard that the high pinion Dana44 is a bit more rare . . . Already I have to make sure that it comes off a Wagoneer so that it has the right bolt pattern. It would probably be even harder to make sure it has high pinion also, right? . . .

Oh yeah, and this point, since I already have the Dual Utlimate with a passenger side drop, I would need to make sure the pumpking is on the right side as well. . . :eek:

The reverse spiral axles are harder to find, but not impossible; I have one in my garage in Alaska. They only came out of Fords, however, and certain years are better than others. Read this: http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/Dana44.htm

Just use Waggy/Chevy stub shafts, spindles, hubs, rotors, and so on to make it the right bolt pattern.

As far as putting the diff on the pass side, just swap the axle tubes side to side.

Diamond Axle is the best choice, though.

[CronusTRD]

Expect a long time to get your Diamond Axle. I ordered mine in May and still haven't received it. I don't think AJ wants your truck sitting there for 5 months while it waits for an axle. I would go with the Wagoneer axle or an f250 hi-pinion since they are available right now.

I would still pick up a Toy mini axle for the parts needed to complete the Diamond axle, such as hubs, hardware, knuckles, etc.

Nice to see you were prepared for such a project :rolleyes:

[AK98Taco]

I would go with the Wagoneer axle or an f250 hi-pinion since they are available right now.

Nice to see you were prepared for such a project :rolleyes:

Problem is he has that nice Marlin dual case setup that is rigged for a passenger side diff... :doh:

That means either running a Toy axle, a pass side Dana axle, or swapping tubes.

[CronusTRD]

Problem is he has that nice Marlin dual case setup that is rigged for a passenger side diff... :doh:

That means either running a Toy axle, a pass side Dana axle, or swapping tubes.

I'm sure Marlin would be willing to take it back and exhange it.

[AK98Taco]

I'm sure Marlin would be willing to take it back and exhange it.

I'm sure.

[Revivalist]

@ AK98Taco - Hmmm, so I guess I’ll have to search around a bit to find a high pinion Dana44. That’s good news that I don’t have to be limited by the bolt pattern or the side the diff is on . . .

Either that or I’ll have to see what Marlin has to say about an exchange. I really don’t want to have to bother him with that. . . .

As for the ring and pinion gears, I think I’m going to run 4.88s for the street and then make up for any lost torque on the trail with the Dual Ultimate Marlin Crawler. . . .

According to my calculations, the crawl ratio with 4.88s is hardly different from the crawl ratio with 5.29s. Here’s my specs . . .

Transmission 1st gear: 3.93
First t-case: 2.28
2nd t-case: 4.70
Ring and pinion: 4.88 or 5.29

Crawl Ratio with 4.88 ring and pinion: 3.39 x 2.28 x 4.7 x 4.88 = 205:1
Crawl Ratio with 4.88 ring and pinion: 3.39 x 2.28 x 4.7 x 5.29 = 223:1

I don’t think I would notice the difference between 223:1 and 205:1. So I think 4.88s are the way to go . . .

[snowchucker]

there is a fully build D44 on the pirate board-- ARB, gears, chromo shafts, CTM's, etc for $1,200.... way, way, way cheaper than any diamond and probably just as strong. downside is that it's 67" wide and passanger side drop.

[AK98Taco]

downside is that it's 67" wide and passanger side drop.

His t-cases are set for pass drop already as the plan was a Toyota axle, so the width is the only problem, and that's if he doesn't upgrade the rearend.

[ATLRoach]

Tundra would be the only toy axle close to fit but his e-locker won't fit in it.

[slc_toyota]

there is a fully build D44 on the pirate board-- ARB, gears, chromo shafts, CTM's, etc for $1,200.... way, way, way cheaper than any diamond and probably just as strong. downside is that it's 67" wide and passanger side drop.

definatly not as strong, but yes cheaper

[AK98Taco]

Tundra would be the only toy axle close to fit but his e-locker won't fit in it.

I'd say use a T-100 rear axle with an ARB. Stronger 3rd member.

[Revivalist]

Ok, at this point I just need to make a final choice on the axle. I don't have all the details as far as prices go, but I have a lot. . . .. Please give me your vote anyways. . .

1. FJ-80
This was the original plan. It's high-pinion, has stronger birfields than a Toyota mini, it can run 5.29s to match the rear, and it's a got a driver's side drop which matches the dual t-cases I have. . . .

(OTT said they would make the steering and arms and send them to Jim at Inchworm to do the machining on the knuckles. The only problem is that it will take 6-8 weeks for that to happen. ) . . . The total cost is as follows . . .

Cost breakdown
• Used FJ-80 axle: $1100
• Longfield Chromoly FJ-80 Super Set: $750
• Knuckle Rebuild Kit: $75???
• Wheel Bearing Kits: $40 x 2 = $80???
• 3rd member (with 5.29s and e-locker): $1300
• E-locker Motor Guard: $75
• High-steer kit (tie rod $60, tie-rod ends $40, drag link $60, pitman arm $70, arms $250): $480
• Extended Brake Lines: $50
• Elocker Control Kit: $75
• Differential armor: $70
• Labor to modify housing for e-locker, install gears & locker: ~$400???
• Labor for machined knuckles: $100
• Labor to reroute the exhaust: $60

Total Estimated Cost for FJ-80: $4615

----------------------------------------------------------

2. Dana44 with chromoly shafts.
Aj found someone who is willing to sell a Dana44 with chromoly shafts for $650. I don’t know if it’s high pinion. Also, the diff is on the driver’s side which means I would need to exchange the dual t-case setup for a passenger side. I also have to run 5.38s in the front which don’t match exactly. (But I guess that’s not a big deal.) I would also have to go with a ARB locker . . .

Cost breakdown
• Used Dana44 with chromoly shafts: $650
• Knuckle Rebuild Kit: $75???
• Wheel Bearing Kits: $40 x 2 = $80???
• 5.29 gears: $200
• ARB locker (locker $750, install kit $40, compressor $220): $810
• High-steer kit: ~ $400???
• Extended Brake Lines: $50
• Differential armor: $70
• Labor to service axle: $200
• Labor to install gears and locker: ~ $500
• Hubs:
• Spindles, calipers, brake pads: $300???

Total Estimated Cost for Dana44: $3335

----------------------------------------------------------

3. Custom Diamond axle ready to go.
It’s high pinion, has a passenger side differential (so I don’t need to exchange the t-cases), and is 64” wide which is a bit wider than the rear 61”. . . . This is the axle that I mentioned earlier in the thread that was for $6000. I really didn’t do justice to the amount of parts that went into it. The steering is WAY more beefed up than I realized. (There’s almost $1000 in parts going into it.) Here’s the breakdown.

Cost breakdown
• Diamond Housing $900
• Core Toyota Front Axle $300 (for knuckles, spindles, wheel hubs, locking hubs, etc...)
• Ball Gussets $50
• Longfield Super Set w/Custom Length Inners: $645 + $200 = $845
• 3rd member (high pinion, E-locker, 5.29s): $1300
• Elocker Motor Guard: $75
• Tie Rod: $60
• Drag Link (we'll make one to fit your rig): $60
• 1 Ton Rod Ends: $135
• D44 Knuckle Studs/Cones: $80
• Knuckles Machined for D44 Studs: $100
• Custom OTT High Steer Arms - Machined for 1Ton Rod Ends and D44 Knuckle Studs+Cone Washers: $280
• Ott Dropped Pitman Arm - Machined for 1Ton End: $150
• ARP Hub Studs: $70
• Longfield Chromo Hub Gears: $70 x 2 = $140
• Knuckle Rebuild Kit: $75
• Wheel Bearing Kits: $40 x 2 = $80
• Brass Spindle Bushings: $36 x 2 = $72
• Loaded IFS Calipers: $119 x 2 = $238
• Vented Rotors: $39 x 2 = $78
• Extended Brake Lines: $50
• Rock Rings: $20
• Elocker Control Kit: $75
• Labor for assembling axle: $200
• Labor for regearing and installing locker: $400

Total: $5833 . . . The seller is willing to let it go for $5400.

----------------------------------------------------------

4. Custom Diamond (made to order)
I can order a Diamond axle that’s basically identical to the one above except the steering won’t be all beefed up. The only problem is that Brian from Diamond Axle said it could take 6-8 weeks to prepare.

The cost is $4600 + $400 (shipping) = $5000

----------------------------------------------------------

5. Look into a custom Dana60
Someone advised me to consider checking out Dana Tack or Courier Enterprises (spelling?) for prices on a custom Dana60 because the cost will probably come out pretty close but the axle will be much stronger. . . .

Well, those are my choices. Let me know what you guys think . . . .I need to make the choice as soon as possible because this weekend I'm going up to Sacramento to get the 2WD to 4WD adaptor from Jim at Inchworm. I'm also going to take in the rear differential to have it regeared to 5.29. So I'd like to make a final decision before I go so we can start to wrap up the project . . .Thanks!

[cooper4x4]

Personally, I would not go with the Dana 60 front axle if you plan on keeping your stock tacoma rear end. That just doesn't make sense.

[Dirty White Boy]

The non-TRD rear is a very strong axle. Maybe not d60 strong, but you don't see the R&P breakages near as much as the "8 inch".

[cooper4x4]

From the pictures, it appears the has the TRD rear end. A Currie D60 is going to be a lot stronger than the Toy rear end.

[yogiaz]

Big mistake... I have 4.88's with a 2004 Double cab auto tranny v6 and 35's. There is no way in hell I would run 37's with 4.88 gears. It would be gutless! Please rethink your position on this.

Yogi

<<4.88s for the street and then make up for any lost torque on the trail with the Dual Ultimate Marlin Crawler. .>>

[yogiaz]

LOL

Yogi


definatly not as strong, but yes cheaper

[Revivalist]

Big mistake... I have 4.88's with a 2004 Double cab auto tranny v6 and 35's. There is no way in hell I would run 37's with 4.88 gears. It would be gutless! Please rethink your position on this.Thank you very much for the heads up. . . . I was just told the same thing by Jim from Inchworm and a few other people. . . . I will definitely go with the 5.29s. . . .

Now if I can just settle on the axle. . . . :rolleyes:

[CYi5]

man those are some flamin':xrainbow: guages...but i like them for some reason. :cool: crazy!

[Revivalist]

man those are some flamin':xrainbow: guages...but i like them for some reason. :cool: crazy!Hmmm . . . Thanks . . . I guess. :confused:

[Revivalist]

Well, we made a bit more progress on the project this weekend. We took a trip over to Inchworm to meet Jim and pick up the 2WD to 4WD adaptor along with a few other parts . . . . I also decided to pick up that custom Diamond axle after all. Basically, my choices came down to this . . .

After calling about 7 custom axle shops it turns out that a complete custom Dana60 front end would run about $7000 with everything needed from hub to hub. That was obviously way over the budget.. . . . The next choice was a custom 9”. However, it turns out that a high pinion 9” only comes in 4.88 gears. I could get a low pinion 9” with 5.29s but I was told that a low pinion 9” is really, really low. So I wasn’t very happy with that choice either. Plus all the custom stuff seems to have a 4-6 week turn around time which is longer than we want to wait to finish this project. . . Lastly, I could have gone with a rebuilt Dana44, but the high pinions are pretty rare and would also require a bolt pattern conversion. . . .

So I finally broke down and decided to go with the custom Diamond axle that was ready to go with a high pinion diff, 5.29s, e-locker, and just about every upgrade possible including knuckle ball gussets, Longfield Super Set with custom inners, Longfield chromo hub gears, ARP hub studs, and a super beefed up high steer with custom OTT arms. . . . Plus, it was the width I needed (64”), it has the diff on the passenger side to match my Crawler, and it was only 15 minutes away from AJ’s shop which means no wait-time and no shipping. . . .So I went for it. . . . Here’s some pics of the steering arm and pitman arm. . . .

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-2ndDay1.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-2ndDay2.jpg

Talk about some beef on those things! . . .

One other nice feature was the way Jim eliminated the need for one of the passenger side U-bolts by welding nuts straight to the axle and using regular bolts. You can see it in this pic . . .

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-2ndDay4.jpg

It turns out that the U-bolt that would normally go there won’t really sit right, so this bypassed that problem. It also made it possible to use the usual spring hanger that comes with the Toyota mini SAS kit. No need for AJ to fab up a wider one for my Tacoma. . . .

Here’s AJ and Jim pulling it off Jim’s rig and putting it on the lift. . . .

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-2ndDay10.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-2ndDay15.jpg

While we were there, I also picked up a chromo output shaft for the t-cases to help avoid any breakage on the trail which could leave me with only FWD or no power at all. It seemed like a worthwhile upgrade. . . .

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-2ndDay16.jpg

[Revivalist]

The 2WD to 4WD adaptor is actually only the second to be sold thus far. It basically consisted of two pieces . . . a replacement tail housing for the tranny and an adaptor that can be a clocked to 10 degrees. Here’s AJ installing it . . .

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-2ndDay23.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-2ndDay30.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-2ndDay31.jpg


So that was about it for today. There’s quite a bit more work that needs to be done but Aj plans on working on it through the week so unfortunately I won’t be there to keep taking progress pics. But it’ll hopefully be done by next weekend and I’ll take pics of the end result. . . .

In the meantime, I’m trying to choose some tires to order up so we can put them on and check for any rubbing before I take it. I’d like to run 38” mud terrains. My current rims are 16x8 but I’m willing to sell them and pick up new ones if needed. . . .

Can anyone offer some suggestions concerning tires? . . . Thanks!

[Captkirkyota]

Irok Radials.

[Revivalist]

Irok Radials.Yeah, that was my first choice but then I learned that because they're so soft they wear too fast on the street. . . . (That seems to be indicated at this link (http://www.offroaders.com/tech/AT-MT-Tires/Irok.htm) as well.)

I think I would like something that has a sharp sidewall like the BFG MTs or Goodyear MTs. . . .

Edit: By the way, nice rig! . . . Looks like you did a SAS on a D-cab as well. So what size rims & tires are you running and did you do any trimming? :saw: . . . Also, what lift are you running?

[Captkirkyota]

Hmmm, well my first set of then only had 1/3 of the tread worn off at 16,800 miles, so if you were to wear them to 2/3 gone you get over 30 k on them with about 6 or 7 32's tread still on them. I rotated them EVERY 3-4 k at oil changes and because I wheel almost every weekend, I kept CLOSE tabs on the pressure. I varied how much I put in by 3 psi or so everytime, one week I'd run 28 up front and 26 in the rear, and then 31 and 29, 27 and 25 etc etc etc.

[Revivalist]

Well, I guess the Iroks aren't so bad for the street afterall . . . .

But I'm still wondering what size rims & tires you run, what lift, and if you did any trimming?

So far I'm thinking about going with Goodyear MTRs from Discount Tire (American Tire) (http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/findTireDetail.do?rcz=95630&rc=CNFINT&c=1&cf=false&cs=37&pc=31207&rd=15&ar=1250&ct=&rf=true). . . But they don't have any rims that I like. . . . I'm thinking about picking up the ProComps 1079 polished allow wheels (http://www.procomptires.com/series1079.htm) from a local shop here. What do you guys think about 3.75" backspacing. . . . Keep in mind that the rear axle is 60" and the front is 64". (I'll probably run spacers in the rear.)

[Captkirkyota]

I have MT Classic 2 15x10 rims, 37x12.50x15 Irok radials. No tubbing up front, I have a 2 in BL , even with out BL I would not have had to cut the front though, my axle was moved fwd quite a bit, lots of cutting the rear , but I cut more for symmetry of the overall look.
Iroks are made by an american tire company.http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4361712&postcount=26

[Revivalist]

Sweet truck you've got there! . . .

I don't think I'll need to do that much trimming. I plan on doing something similar to this . . .

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/ExampleofSASbyBentup1edited.jpg

Notice that all it took was some trimming of the front bumper and also cutting off the bottom portion of the rear panel of the bed. It basically makes it even with the bumper in the back. I would also like to run those tube guards in the back. The only difference is that I'm keeping the rear step bumper for convenience and of course I won't be running tires quite that big. (I think those are 40"s.) . . .

By the way, how much lift did you get out of the SAS alone, without the BL?

[Paul]

That truck you just posted a picture of still rubs really bad.

[Revivalist]

That truck you just posted a picture of still rubs really bad.Wow, it does? . . . . How'd you know? . . . Is it yours or a friend's?

[ATLRoach]

Wow, it does? . . . . How'd you know? . . . Is it yours or a friend's?

http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25523&page=2 :D

[Revivalist]

Thanks for the link!

I noticed that it mentioned that he was running 19.5" wide tires (with 40" diameter?). . . . I'll be going with a more modest 37" by 12.5" . . . I wonder if that will help avoid the rubbing issues he had?

[Paul]

Wow, it does? . . . . How'd you know? . . . Is it yours or a friend's?
I've wheeled with him before. You should be fine with just 37's, bitches.

[nilson]

I have a question about that Inchwork 2WD-4WD adaptor. How much was it and will it work to mount a 2WD (PreRunner) tranny to a stock Toyota chain-drive x-case?

[Captkirkyota]

Sweet truck you've got there! . . .

I don't think I'll need to do that much trimming. I plan on doing something similar to this . . .

By the way, how much lift did you get out of the SAS alone, without the BL?
Yeah, I do not like the bigger fender flares on the 01 and up trucks, so I hacked mine that high to get rid of as many holes from the flares as well as future exo plans. Lift I'm not sure for certain but prolly 10 inches including tires. Here are that stats. Again these are approximate.


At the time of my build my truck was set up as follows, only MINOR things have changed liked tires, wheels and new bumpers etc.
Approx 12 inches of lift including 2" Body lift and tires,
37 in Irok Radials
15x10 in MT classic 2 wheels
Custom width Diamond axles front and rear 4 inches wider front and rear from stock.
Front is 65 inches wide from WMS to WMS and is set up to run Toyota style Birfields instead of u-joints.
Inners are Longfields 30 spline.
The 3rd member in the front is a toyota HP 8" with 5.29 gears with an ARB locker
The rear axle is 64 inches wide and also has 4340 chromoly inners with a toyota 8" 3rd with 5.29's and an ARB and is a full floater with disc brakes. ( FROR set up )
The spring hangers, frame plating, steering box mount, cross member, and shackles on the front are all from Front Range Offroad Fab.
A 90's toyota IFS steering box is used to turn the truck, with Marlin Crawler High steering kit and pitman.
The front leafs are from Alcan Springs made to Tacoma weight but made the same as
85 Toyota Front stock length
3.0" lift
7 Leaf pack
7)- 7mm thick leafs
2.0" Center pin Offset toward the front

The rears are also Alcan and spec as follows
00 Tacoma Rear stock length
5.0" Lift
3)- 7mm Thick Leafs (8leaf pack)
1-1/2" extended on the tail
I also have a Front Range Offroad Fab Transfer-case cross-member and skid plate
I am running 14" travel Bilstein 5150's all around.
Summit rear brake manually controlled proportioning valve.
Custom front bumper, warn 9.5 xp winch
rear is clearance cut with custom bumper.
PSC hydro assist steering kit.

[Revivalist]

@ nilson – The 2WD-4WD adaptor was $700. (Not cheap, but definitely cheaper than a new tranny.)

@ Captkirkyota – Thanks for the run down on your truck . . . . Ok, so it looks like you have 6” coming from the SAS lift, 2” from the BL, and 3” from the tires (going from 31”s to 37”s). . . . I guess the only difference with me is a 3” BL instead of a 2”. . . . I might need to just live with the extra height because I’m probably not going to do as much cutting as you did. (My wife probably wouldn’t be too thrilled about me butchering the new truck. :) ) . . .

We should be finishing up this weekend so I’ll post some pics then. . . .

[snowchucker]

where are the final pics?? i heard it was finished except for the front driveshaft.

[firemandave]

yes yes pics.

[Revivalist]

Yup, it's basically finished. Sorry for the lag on getting pics up . . .

Aj installed the Marlin Crawler unto the new 2WD-->4WD adaptor. He also modified the dual T-case crossmember (made for 85 pickups) so it would extend across the wider frame of the Tacoma. Very cool fab work. . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-3rdDay1.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-3rdDay2.jpg


The shackle hangers for the rear axle were also welded up in place. . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-3rdDay6.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-3rdDay10.jpg


I asked AJ if he could also weld up some differential armor for the rear and it turned out great. He was able to relocate the brake line bracket to make room for the armor. . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-3rdDay11.jpg


The transmission, 2WD-->4WD adaptor, and dual T-cases made for a pretty long drive train so using two rear shafts with a carrier would have caused the rear shaft to have a very steep angle. . . Instead, it turned out better to go with a single rear drive shaft from the T-case to the rear differential . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-3rdDay15.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-3rdDay18.jpg


The front spring hanger was also welded up and the axle was tested fitted. AJ also prepped up a steering box mount since the usual mount for an 85 pickup is too big. . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-3rdDay22.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-3rdDay25.jpg


The steering box and shaft were mounted, the shackle hangers were welded in place, and the shackles were bolted on. . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-3rdDay28.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-3rdDay29.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-3rdDay31.jpg


The wheels were test fitted and approved! (I went with the 37” Goodyear MTRs on ProComp 15”s.) . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-3rdDay37.jpg


Next came the shock hoops that were set in place with an old shock used for a mock setup. After that came the Bilstein 5150s . . .

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-3rdDay41.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-3rdDay42.jpg


The front drive shaft was put in with a nice long yoke that was at least 10” or longer . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-3rdDay44.jpg


We also installed a power steering cooler that I picked up from Summit since I would be using a ram for hydro-assisted steering. . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-3rdDay47.jpg


With the tires all in place we lifted here up to install the ram with the hoses and bracket. AJ fabbed up a nice mount for the ram to fit on the Diamond axle. . . .

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-3rdDay49.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-3rdDay50.jpg


Next the rear shock mounts and shocks were also installed. . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-3rdDay56.jpg


AJ also relocated the spare tire bracket so that I would be able to fit a 35” tire under there as a spare instead of the usual 31”. . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-3rdDay60.jpg


By this time it was already getting late and no muffler shops would be open. So a little home-made exhaust rerouting was pieced together with some elbows picked up from Pep Boys. Not the prettiest setup, but good enough to get me home. . . . Man is that thing LOUD!! . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-3rdDay61.jpg


AJ also welded in a bung for me on the exhaust line just before the first cat so I can attach the O2 sensor of my LM1 and tune the air-fuel ratio. . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-3rdDay65.jpg


At first it seemed that the shifters weren’t even close to matching up with my console. . . . But after some test drilling, it actually turned out perfect. We cut out a chunk of the console and made room for the Marlin crawler shifter and the twin stick . . . It came out great! . . . . I’ll just have to drop by a custom upholstery shop later and have them clean it up with some plastic and carpet. . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-3rdDay73.jpg


The locker switch and indicator light came out nice as well. There’s just a small issue with the fuse not fitting right so the locker is not operable yet. But that should be a minor fix . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-3rdDay77.jpg


AJ was also kind enough to take care of a little issue I had with the intake. . . . The Volant air box has a nice big intake but the stock hole in the fender is much smaller. So he cut a hole in the fender that matches the Volant and put a nice seal around it to keep out the hot engine air. Beautiful solution. . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/S3600001-1.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-3rdDay82.jpg


There was only one major hitch -- we had a pretty bad leak came from between the transmission and the 2WD-->4WD adaptor. But AJ took care of it with some heavy duty sealant. (They call it “hockey puck” because it’s as hard as a hockey puck when it dries) . . .

So with the truck packed up I hit the road . . . Here’s a pic with all the old parts and wheels in the back. . . . Kind of a hard way to break in the new springs!. . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-3rdDay86.jpg


I must say that I’m definitely glad that I went for 5.29 r&p gears rather than 4.88s. Already I can feel that the truck is bogged down much more than before. With 4.88s I imagine it would be worse. . . . Here’s a pic of the front. At 64” the front axle is definitely wider than the rear (which is 60.75”.) . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-3rdDay91.jpg


After I got home I parked the truck in the garage and unloaded it. . . . Then later I discovered that with the weight of all that stuff I couldn’t get it back out of the garage! . . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-3rdDay93.jpg


So I had to air down the tires, put the wheels back on the bed, and pull the garage release so I could push the door up an inch higher. . . . I baaaarely made it back out again. Hopefully when the springs settle then I’ll be able to fit without problems. . . . Here’s one more pic with me standing by it for reference. I’m about 5’8” . . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-3rdDay107.jpg


The followingare the remaing tasks that need to be taken care of:

• Shift out of 4WD. For some reason we couldn’t shift to 2WD. So AJ just removed the front drive shaft so that I can drive home. Hopefully Marlin will be able to help out with that.

• Get the twin sticks to shift smoothly. For some reason they are very stiff and sometimes won’t shift at all. I don’t know if it’s because they’re new or something needs to be adjusted.

• Fix the fuse for the front locker and indicator light.

• Fix a minor leak that still continues from the t-cases.

• Have the exhaust redone.

• Have the center console cleaned up.

• Trim the fenders. We tested the truck on a loading dock ramp and found that it was slightly rubbing the rear fender flare and the front bumper. And I don’t think the truck was even flexed to its max like it will be on the trail. So I think I’ll wait for the springs to settle before figuring out how much to trim. Otherwise we may not trim enough.

• Lower the lift. Right now the truck sits at a height of 6’10” with the 6” suspension lift and 3” body lift. It has A LOT of body roll going around corners. I would like to lose the body lift but there’s no way I would clear the tires. So hopefully after enough trimming, I might be able to at least reduce the body lift by 2” or so. . .

• Install air bumps. AJ suggested installing some air bumps instead of bump stops for a better ride. I was looking at these (http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/home.php?cat=343). I was thinking the Fox 2.0” air bumps with a 4” stroke (http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/product.php?productid=63&cat=343&page=1) and the chromoly 2.0 Fox air bump can (http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/product.php?productid=772&cat=344&page=1). Sound good? Also, do I need this hardware (http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/product.php?productid=703&cat=343&page=)? And lastly, is polyperformance the best place to get them or is there a cheaper place?

• Install tranny gauge. It turned out that the tranny gauge I bought is not an inline gauge. So I have to order up an inline sensor and then install it with the gauge. I'm not sure what part I need exactly. Any hints would be appreciated. . .

• Bumpers and tubes. I’m thinking about eventually installing a bentup bumper (probably front and back) and some tubes around the rear panels.

[firemandave]

i know your leaving your bl on for clearance but it looks a little high/tipsy. Whats your height measurements?

[Toymachine]

pull the body lift and then sawzall that shit until it fits a COG that high aint going to work on off camber trails

[RaideRNatioN]

Where did you find 37" MTR's? I havent been able to find any for about 2 months now. Everyone has been saying they're backordered indefinately.

[Revivalist]

i know your leaving your bl on for clearance but it looks a little high/tipsy. Whats your height measurements?The top is 6'10" and the frame is 3'3" from the ground. . . Yes, it does feel tipsy. I'm just waiting until the springs settle so I can see where I stand for sure. . . .

pull the body lift and then sawzall that shit until it fits a COG that high aint going to work on off camber trailsYeah, I'll do some cutting but I'm not willing to totally destroy the fenders cuz it's still a clean ride. Maybe some years down the line if it becomes a dedicated off road vehicle I would do that. . .

Where did you find 37" MTR's? I havent been able to find any for about 2 months now. Everyone has been saying they're backordered indefinately.I found them at America's tires in Sacramento. They had them in stock.

[99FlowedTaco]

fuckin sweet ! ya lower the COG and you got it made. gonna be selling the old tires ? :) I can always use tires lol

[Paul]

39 inches to the frame :eek: Where did you measure from?

[Revivalist]

Oops, my bad. I meant 2'4" which is 28" from ground to frame.

[Jeff.]

What are your plans with your old lift????

[Revivalist]

What are your plans with your old lift????Selling it. You interested?

[PuckerFactor]

I bet he is! :D

[Jeff.]

Sure am. PM me the details of the kit and what you're looking to get for it. Thanks. How do you like them apples, Rob...

[PuckerFactor]

I like avacados jeff :rolleyes: but apples are good too :D

sweet rig man :cool:

[Jeff.]

PMed ya back again...

[banThis]

is the passenger side lean in the third from last picture permenant or shit in the back?
also, how many turns are you getting on your front lugnuts? they seem short.
(mine arent exactly long either- the fj rotors need longer studs. ive got the longest dormans they make anywhere close to the right width and only get 6-7 full turns with aluminum wheels) those wheels clear the calipers widthwise ok? (i had to grind on mine :( )
looks good man. now go break something. and put a freakin scratch on that thing for christs sakes.

[Revivalist]

is the passenger side lean in the third from last picture permenant or shit in the back?
also, how many turns are you getting on your front lugnuts? they seem short.
(mine arent exactly long either- the fj rotors need longer studs. ive got the longest dormans they make anywhere close to the right width and only get 6-7 full turns with aluminum wheels) those wheels clear the calipers widthwise ok? (i had to grind on mine :( )
looks good man. now go break something. and put a freakin scratch on that thing for christs sakes.The lean has been changing while the springs settle. (I guess it's based on what side I just flexed last.) . . . I'm not sure exactly how many turns I'm getting on those nuts, but I should probably check. Thanks for bringing that up. . . .Also, as for clearing the calipers, I did not notice some medal shreds on the instead of my rims a few days ago. I think that there's definitely some rubbing going on there. . . . I didn't think about grinding down the rims. That's a great idea. . . . Yeah, I haven't been able to even go wheelin with that thing yet. . . . It's actually back in AJs garage getting some of those issues cleared up that I mentioned before. . .

[Revivalist]

Well I got to have a little fun on the forklift yesterday. . . . We got the front tire up 34” before one of the rear tires lifted . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/04-Modified%20truck/02-SAS%20and%209in%20Lift/SAS9inchliftand37intires11.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/04-Modified%20truck/02-SAS%20and%209in%20Lift/SAS9inchliftand37intires12.jpg


Looking underneath, we could see that the front shackle was practically maxing out. It seems that it’s because of a bad angle to begin with. AJ mentioned that some boomer rang shackles would work fine to solve that problem. . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/04-Modified%20truck/02-SAS%20and%209in%20Lift/SAS9inchliftand37intires13.jpg


The springs were also flattening out since we didn’t put bump stop extenders yet. It’s clear that we’ll need longer bump stop extensions than the usual ones that come with IFS Eliminator kits. . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/04-Modified%20truck/02-SAS%20and%209in%20Lift/SAS9inchliftand37intires19.jpg


There was also considerable rubbing for the front , as I expected there would be. . . I’m thinking of swapping out the front and rear bumpers for custom steel bumpers by AJ. That will solve the rubbing on the front bumper and provide much better protection. We’ll have to also cut out the back of the front wheelwell and maybe pound the firewall to take care of the rest of the rubbing in the front. . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/04-Modified%20truck/02-SAS%20and%209in%20Lift/SAS9inchliftand37intires15.jpg


As for the rear, there was rubbing there as well . . .We’ll have to cut off a good portion of the bottom of the bed and then AJ’s custom bumper can swing around and give better protection there as well. . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/04-Modified%20truck/02-SAS%20and%209in%20Lift/SAS9inchliftand37intires14.jpg


Here’s the truck flexed from the rear . . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/04-Modified%20truck/02-SAS%20and%209in%20Lift/SAS9inchliftand37intires17.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/04-Modified%20truck/02-SAS%20and%209in%20Lift/SAS9inchliftand37intires18.jpg


We’re also planning on dropping the body lift to 1.5”. That way the rear cross member holding up the shocks can remain and provide support under the bed. I don’t think I want to remove the body lift completely cuz that would require WAY too much cutting. . . .

[Captkirkyota]

[COLOR="green"]Well I got to have a little fun on the forklift yesterday. . . . We got the front tire up 34” before one of the rear tires lifted . . .



Looking underneath, we could see that the front shackle was practically maxing out. It seems that it’s because of a bad angle to begin with. AJ mentioned that some boomer rang shackles would work fine to solve that problem. . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/04-Modified%20truck/02-SAS%20and%209in%20Lift/SAS9inchliftand37intires13.jpg


What is wrong with that shackle angle? :confused:

[Revivalist]

For brand new springs, it's too low, isn't? . . . Look at the pics of the truck level. It's low even when the truck is not flexing. . . . The concern is that when the springs settle, it will be even lower and will possibly even end up flat on the spring. . .

[SCTaco]

Damn G. You got a price list on all that action? Looks good!

[banThis]

springs may settle but they wont stretch out.
any more flex and youll be negative arch. so you bumpstop it there and thats where its going to be. your going to have to bumpstop it around there, an inch lower than the picture anyway to keep it off the shock body. settling will just mean less up, more down.

grind the calipers, not the wheel. not the best idea, but whatever.

again, nice lookin truck. id like to see what mine did on a forklift.

[Jeff.]

I just saw your truck in person at Bentup...it's a fuggin' monster truck as AJ put it...I'm short and I had to pull myself up the tailgate to get the parts out of the back. AJ was gonna give me a boost.

I'd hate to see your bill man...and then adding the front and rear bumpers. Sheesh. Lucky SOB!

[Captkirkyota]

For brand new springs, it's too low, isn't? . . . Look at the pics of the truck level. It's low even when the truck is not flexing. . . . The concern is that when the springs settle, it will be even lower and will possibly even end up flat on the spring. . .
If you are maxed out in flex then they will not lie against the frame, your springs look flat, my truck RIDES with my shackle at that angle yours is flexed and mine has never touched the frame.

[Revivalist]

So you mean it doesn't matter if the shackle is at such a low angle?

[banThis]

it would matter if it was at that angle and your springs had a shitton of arch left in them at the same time.

[Captkirkyota]

So you mean it doesn't matter if the shackle is at such a low angle?
Only if they allow for the shackles to hit the frame, otherwise IMO the lower the better so you get more droop.

[Revivalist]

Wow, great point. I didn't think of that. . . . Ok, so let me get this straight. It's basically ideal to have the shackle angle as low as possible so that there can be more droop, but just as long as when it's stuffed it doesn't end up flat against the frame before the spring itself becomes flat. . . . So I guess my only concern is that as the springs settle, there's a possibility that the shackle will end up against the frame when stuffed. . . .

[HillBilly_Young01]

you might have already done this but,

what is the total that you have spent on this?

[Captkirkyota]

Wow, great point. I didn't think of that. . . . Ok, so let me get this straight. It's basically ideal to have the shackle angle as low as possible so that there can be more droop, but just as long as when it's stuffed it doesn't end up flat against the frame before the spring itself becomes flat. . . . So I guess my only concern is that as the springs settle, there's a possibility that the shackle will end up against the frame when stuffed. . . .
As low as possible to achieve the amount of up travel you want without limiting it too much and to allow the most droop, its a balance of what you need for your type of wheeling. Based on what I've seen of yours, it looks ok right where it is at because when the springs settle, they'll lay back the angle some and it should be ok since you went flat, almost negative arch and were good. If you like to jump, then more of a vertical angle would be better, but since you'll be wheeling with the Nor-cal guys, a lot of jumping does not seem likely. Here is the real kicker........ AJ knows what he's doing and it looks like from, again,what I can see, nothing has changed with AJ's ability. Truck's lookin' good! Hi...yes, but you can adjust or get used to it.
:xpimp: :kewl: :headbang: :thumbs:

[Revivalist]

Well, at least that'll save the headache of having to move the mount. Last I talked to AJ he still had in mind to just change the shackes for some boomerangs so they have a better angle when the truck is sitting and they still won't flatten out against the frame. . . . But we still need to flex it out and see how the bumpstops affect things. It'll probably be set to hit before the shackle ever flattens which will solve everything. . .

Aside from that, there's basically three things left to sort out . . .

1. What bumptstops and bumpstop extenders to use. The ones from Trail Gear aren't going to be long enough. Do you guys recommend getting better ones from somewhere?

2. How much of the body lift can be removed. I'm planning to get AJ's custom front and rear bumpers while the truck is at his shop. The front bumper looks something like this . . .

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/05-Truck%20related/Frontsolidbumperwithwinch.jpg

The only difference is that I would like one that has a nice grill guard like this AllPro bumper. . . .

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/05-Truck%20related/AllProfrontbumperdosamegrillgaurd.jpg

So that should take care of the rubbing in the very front, but I don't know if the firewall can be modified enough. From the pics I posted earlier on the forklift you can see it's already rubbing pretty bad with the 3" body lift. I guess the question is can 3.5-4" of clearance be gained by modding the firewall?? . . . I'm guessing probably not which means staying with at least a 1.5-2" body lift. . . .

In the rear I think that cutting the lower bed and putting a wrap around bumper should take care of the rubbing back there. . . . The bumper will look something like this . . .

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/05-Truck%20related/Rearwraparoundbumper.jpg

The only difference is that AJ will weld on a swing-out spare tire mount so I can mount a 37" tire back there. . . .

3. What winch would you recommended? I figure I might as well get one of AJ's front bumpers with the winch mount and maybe just put in a winch now instead of hassling with it later. Would you guys recommend any particular winch? I would like one that has the lowest profile. . . .

So far this Warn Winch M8000 with Hawse Fairlead (http://www.4wheelonline.com/Products.aspx?CategoryId=409&ProductId=764) was recommended to me . . . . But I wonder if maybe I should go with something with a higher rating like this WARN Tabor - Magnum 9 self-recovery winch (http://www.4wheelonline.com/Products.aspx?CategoryId=1576&ProductId=5447). It's even $180 cheaper. . . .

Are there any characteristics that I should be looking for in general?

Thanks.

[Revivalist]

Ok, well I think I've settled on going with a ARB bumper in the front. That will give the extra protection I'm looking for around the lights and I think it's pretty strong in general. . . .

http://www.4wheelonline.com/Images/CategoryImages/ARB3420010.gif

The only questions I have is whether it reduces the approach angle, and whether I can use the Warn multi-mount with a front receive instead of using a winch in the bumper. I want to use these . . .

http://www.warn.com/truck/mounting-systems/images/192/receiver.jpg

http://www.warn.com/truck/mounting-systems/images/193/winch-carrier.gif

That way I can remove the winch when I'm not wheelin and also put it on the back hitch if I ever need to winch from behind . . .

Anyone have experience or pictures running an ARB bumper on their Taco? . . . Or experience with the multi-mount? . . .

[Timbuddha]

Okay, lose the body lift. You will thank me for it. Cut the freaking fenders if you have to. Do not buy the ARB bumper. It is a freaking boat anchor that will only weigh you down. If you are worried about light protection, have AJ make something for you. As far as the winch, go Warn, not that Tabor, made in China crap. Do it once, do it right or don't do it at all. You do not need a rear winch unless you are wheeling by yourself which is dumb.

tim

[CajunTaco]

I completelly agree with Tim. AJ's bumpers are nice, I only wish he was closer to me... And I second the WARN winch. MY warn has been through 4 trucks, a front end collision and been completelly submerged a few times. It still works every time, while my friends winch (not sure on brand) didn't worked after it had a short dip in a creek crossing.

[Revivalist]

Thanks for the input, guys. . . .

As for the body lift, it doesn’t seem that we can remove it without completely tearing up the fenders at this point (as well as cutting off the rear crossmember for the shocks and remounting it elsewhere, pulling out the steering shaft again to shorten it, lowering the tranny & t-cases, etc.) . . . So we’re going to leave it at 1.5-2”. . . I know AJ will be able to do whatever fab work needed to mount the bumpers . . .

As for the ARB, I have to agree that the extra weight is definitely bad. But I wonder how much more it would weigh than AJ’s bumper? . . . I’m hoping that by using the multi-mount then I can at least reduce the weight by not having the winch mounted on there. I can also leave it off when I’m cruising the streets, and I can avoid the whole issue with creek crossings that CajunTaco brought up. . . .

I was thinking of going with the Warn M8000 and getting some synthetic rope and maybe an aluminum hawse. Sound reasonable?

By the way, does anyone know about a frame horn modification for the ARB that’s supposed to make the mounting points stronger?

[AK98Taco]

Are you really going to hoist that winch back and forth every time you want to use it, especially to fit it into place on that tall truck?

[Paul]

I don't think you need to worry about submerging your winch with that tall of a truck...

[Captkirkyota]

Are you really going to hoist that winch back and forth every time you want to use it, especially to fit it into place on that tall truck?
Not to mention 99% of the time you realize you need a winch it is after your all up in the obstacle you need it for and at that point, will you be able to get to it to put it on? Also I wheeled with a guy who had one and it stuck waaay out there, on a lot of obstacles if you were to go ahead and put it on before, that thing would hinder your progress. I GUARANTEE if he had that on going up the first fall on axle alley or the like, he would hang up on it going up, and being in launch for the moon position and climbing out to get it and put it on would be near impossible. Go Warn and synthetic and the weight is not so bad. Since you'll keep your BL you can use that room it provides to really tuck the winch deep into the grill and keep a bumper from AJ made for your application nice and tight so you can keep a good approach angle.

[Captkirkyota]

I don't think you need to worry about submerging your winch with that tall of a truck...
You'd be surprised.... I dip mine in all the time when going down into a river or water when it has a bit of a drop off entry, rather than a nice smooth boat ramp entry. ;) :D

[Revivalist]

I think I'll give it a try with the multi-mount. If it gives me a hard time, then I can always change it later and drop the winch in the bumper. . . . I heard that you don't even need to remove the ARB bumper to do that. . . .

[aelogbi]

ya thats my truck in the pic, i actually don't rub that bad after i trimmed my fenders and hacked my front bumper. Now its on 40" mtrs and trail readys

[snowchucker]

ya thats my truck in the pic, i actually don't rub that bad after i trimmed my fenders and hacked my front bumper. Now its on 40" mtrs and trail readys

i wanna see new pics....

[toycoma732]

I just got done reading your whole thread...nice work! just make sure not to remove the prerunner badges cuz those are badass...

cant wait for some wheelin pics...

-Derek

[Revivalist]

Thanks for the compliment. . . Yeah, I can't wait for it to be finished up completely so I can take it wheelin'. Hopefully during Thanksgiving break. . .

It's funny, you're the second person who said not to take off the PreRunner badge. I was actually planning to take it off and then put one of those nice silver "4x4" badges that I've seen on Dodge 4x4s. . . . I like that better than the 4x4 mudflaps that Toyota chose to go with. . . .

By the way, from your sig it looks like you're about to go to work on your own double cab. What's your plan with that?

[ocdropzone]

Nice write up and a damned nice truck....

[Revivalist]

Thank you very much! :)

[toycoma732]

Thanks for the compliment. . . Yeah, I can't wait for it to be finished up completely so I can take it wheelin'. Hopefully during Thanksgiving break. . .

It's funny, you're the second person who said not to take off the PreRunner badge. I was actually planning to take it off and then put one of those nice silver "4x4" badges that I've seen on Dodge 4x4s. . . . I like that better than the 4x4 mudflaps that Toyota chose to go with. . . .

By the way, from your sig it looks like you're about to go to work on your own double cab. What's your plan with that?

nah, the prerunner badges show your blood, and sweat youve gone through to get a sick ass rig...

Once I recover from the expenses of the double-cab, I plan to run all-pros 3-link up front with a nice toyota diamond housing...dual cases of course

Until then, ill be running TC UCA's w/ Donahoe Coilovers:xozzy:

keep up the work man, looks sweet!!!

[Interex]

I left mine on to confuse people for fun. Whenever I go wheeling with people that don't know me they are amazed at what my PreRunner can do.

[Revivalist]

I left mine on to confuse people for fun. Whenever I go wheeling with people that don't know me they are amazed at what my PreRunner can do.That's pretty funny. . . . I think I'll do the same.

[CajunTaco]

Man, I really love your truck. Some day I'll be there. I just can't justify sas'n mine yet til its payed off. But hopefully by the end of next summer it will be under the knife.

[Revivalist]

Thank you very much. . . . It's actually been sittin in the shop for the last few weeks undergoing a second little make over . . . .

We're dropping the body lift to 2", trimming the fenders, putting on an ARB front bumper & winch, a custom wrap-around bumper in the rear with spare tire mount and fender tubes, a billet grill, a sway bar with quick disconnects, 4.5" bumpstops, a tranny temp gauge, a speedometer adjustor, and some gap gaurds . . . .

After that I just need to take it over to Marlin Crawler to have the t-case levers shifted a bit, clean up the center console with some nice boots, and put on an extended breather for the rear diff. . . . Then it's time to hit the hills!! :D

[Guapotaco]

The non-TRD rear is a very strong axle. Maybe not d60 strong, but you don't see the R&P breakages near as much as the "8 inch".
i broke mine 4 times! with only 35's and i dont get on the skinny much either, those axles(non trd, and trd) also break at the spring perch, seen too many now to know its crap, get 2 60s, or diamonds and be done!, get the 35 spline 60 outers with the longfield cv 60 set up and your done for a long time! if your spending that kind of $, get something more than what you need, you'll get hooked and want to go bigger down the rd,i've replaced both axles now, and wish i had done it right the first time, i.e. no toy axles or 44's, i could have saved some serious bling if i did, but live and learn,damn my wallet hurts
i know you've already got it going, nice work, had to comment on these axles being alright, and thats about the only thing they are, alright, nothing compared to a 9, custom, 60, or old toy 8 inch,just not the same metal etc...
go wheel that thing!!!

[jdblatt]

You never answered the question....How much?? 12-15K??

PS. I FU**EN LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

[Revivalist]

I found out that my passenger tire rubs slightly on the windshield wiper reservoir. . . . I heard that I could replace it with one from an old truck. TAP has one for an '85 pickup. Will that work?

[Valkyrie]

No way to tell unless you try it. Old T-100 ones work great for non-abs trucks, Brian (General Lee) mounted his in a different location.

Read this, but you'll have to figure out what's best for you...

http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18668&highlight=washer

[Revivalist]

My truck is ABS . . . So I take is the T-100 wouldn't be a good option then? . . . I already ordered from TAP a reservoir from a '85 pickup. I wonder if I should cancel the order. Or maybe I can just return it if it doesn't work.

[Valkyrie]

You have your ABS hooked up to your axles??

[Brain]

I found out that my passenger tire rubs slightly on the windshield wiper reservoir. . . . I heard that I could replace it with one from an old truck. TAP has one for an '85 pickup. Will that work?

Find one that has a nice shape, make it fit! :D Basically go to the junkyard and you will probably find something. You'll probably have to splice some wires together to get it to work properly, unless you saved the pump from your stock reservior, then you can just plug and play.

[Brain]

You have your ABS hooked up to your axles??

He probably doesn't have his ABS in working order anymore :) He may just have the ABS module and all the lines still hooked up

[ocdropzone]

You never answered the question....How much?? 12-15K??

PS. I FU**EN LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

Revivalist: I am sure that you have spend a lot more than you would want to admit, but a ton of us are having truck envy..
any chance of at least giving a price range?

Nice truck...it looks like you are doing it right the first time...

[Valkyrie]

That's what I figured, but the whole maze can be ripped out at this point, leaving the perfect hole.... for a washer jar at least. ;)

Sorry for misspelling your user name- still have the Dukes of Hazzard movie in my head I guess... :D

[Brain]

That's what I figured, but the whole maze can be ripped out at this point, leaving the perfect hole.... for a washer jar at least. ;)

Sorry for misspelling your user name- still have the Dukes of Hazzard movie in my head I guess... :D

You were close, that counts in my book :D I'd like to rip my ABS brain out and put an on-board compressor in it's place. Any idea what it takes to take the whole system out??

[hawaiianbro]

You were close, that counts in my book :D I'd like to rip my ABS brain out and put an on-board compressor in it's place. Any idea what it takes to take the whole system out??


ahahahah you said brain.

[Angry Andy]

You were close, that counts in my book :D I'd like to rip my ABS brain out and put an on-board compressor in it's place. Any idea what it takes to take the whole system out??

Me too...been thinking about that for a while...I would imagine its just a simple, replumbing the whole hard lines kinda job....someone must have done it already.

[Brain]

Me too...been thinking about that for a while...I would imagine its just a simple, replumbing the whole hard lines kinda job....someone must have done it already.

I know some AZ guys have done it. Captkirk and Shane, I think? :D

[Captkirkyota]

I know some AZ guys have done it. Captkirk and Shane, I think? :D
We did Shane's a while back, I never had abs. It is really simple, you can save a line or 2 and bend them to come straight down off the master cyl. to go to the brakes and then we just cut and removed all the abs stuff from the firewall etc. All you need to do is look at it and it is really easy to see what you need to do. T-Bob just did his too.

[Revivalist]

Revivalist: I am sure that you have spend a lot more than you would want to admit, but a ton of us are having truck envy..
any chance of at least giving a price range?

Nice truck...it looks like you are doing it right the first time...Thanks! . . . Yes, it’s true that this project ended up costing waaaaay more than I was planning to spend. . . .

I was going to give a final list of the parts and the cost once the whole project was completely done. But since you guys are in such a hurry to know, I can post it now. . . .

The following is a comprehensive list of everything I've paid for this project -- starting with the price I paid for my truck all the way down to my Jesus decal on the back. Just note that I haven’t included tax, shipping or labor on anything. . . . .


Truck
• Toyota Tacoma, 2003, V6, 3.4L, Pre-runner Double Cab, Imperial Jade Mica exterior with Oak interior, TRD, SR5, spray-on bed liner, bed extender, locked tailgate, alarm & keyless entry, 16” aluminum alloy wheels, 265/70/R16 tires, 14.5k miles
--- $17,750


Solid Axle Swap (w/ suspension & body lifts, regear to 5.29s, locker, hydro-assist, and swaybar)
• Axle (Parts from Front Range, Trail Gear & OTT, assembled by Inchworm Gear) ($5358 )
-- Donor Toyota Front Axle (for knuckles, spindles, wheel hubs, locking hubs): $300
-- Diamond Housing $900
-- Ball Gussets $50
-- Longfield Super Set w/Custom Length Inners: $645 + $200 = $845
-- 3rd member (high pinion, E-locker, 5.29s): $1300
-- Elocker Motor Guard: $75
-- Tie Rod: $60
-- Drag Link: $60
-- 1 Ton Rod Ends: $135
-- D44 Knuckle Studs/Cones: $80
-- Knuckles Machined for D44 Studs: $100
-- OTT Steer Arms - Machined for 1Ton Rod Ends & D44 Knuckle Studs+Cone Washers: $280
-- OTT Dropped Pitman Arm - Machined for 1Ton End: $150
-- ARP Hub Studs: $70
-- Longfield Chromo Hub Gears: $70 x 2 = $140
-- Knuckle Rebuild Kit: $75
-- Wheel Bearing Kits: $40 x 2 = $80
-- Brass Spindle Bushings: $36 x 2 = $72
-- Loaded IFS Calipers: $119 x 2 = $238
-- Vented Rotors: $39 x 2 = $78
-- Extended Brake Lines: $50 (just the 2 front)
-- Rock Rings: $20
-- E-locker Control Kit: $75
-- U-bolt Flip Kit: $50
• Parts of IFS Eliminator Kit (Trail Gear) ($609)
-- 5" Springs - Front, $249
-- 5” Shackles, $75
-- Shock Hoops, 14", $49 pair
-- Bilstein 5150 14" Shock, 2x$99 each = $198
-- Bumpstop Extension, 2x$19 pair = $38
• Classic Rear Lift Kit (Trail Gear) ($714)
-- 5" Springs - Rear, $299
-- Welded Rear Spring Hangers: $30 for pair
-- Rear Shackle Mounts: $35 for pair
-- 5” wide Shackles, $75
-- Bilstein 5150 14" Shock, 2x$99 each = $198
-- Lower Shock Mounts, 2x$14 each = $28
-- U-bolt Flip Kit Rear, $49
• Front Spring Hanger (Inchworm Gear): $75
• Frame tubes (Inchworm Gear): $20
• Shock hoop braces and crossmember for rear shocks (Bentup): $15
• Differential Breather Kit (Marlin Crawler): $29
• Front differential breather hose (Bentup): $15
• Custom rear brake line (local shop in Sac.): $25
• Bump stops (Polyurethane, 4.5”) (Poly Performance): $60
• Oil Pan, Strainer, and Gasket from a T100 (Toyota): $195
• Water reservoir from ’85 pickup (TAP): $35
• Steering Box (Drilled and Tapped for hydro-assist) (Inchworm Gear): $300
• Steering shaft (Bentup): $225
• Hydraulic Ram Assisted Steering Kit (Trail Gear): $200
• Bracket and fittings for hydro ram (Bentup): $13
• Power Steering hose (Bentup): $65
• Power Steering Cooler (Summit): $70
• Transmission Temperature Gauge (Summit Racing): $62
• Rear 5.29 gears and seals (Inchworm Gear): $220
• Sway Bar Kit (RockEquipment): $250
• Quick Disconnects w/ right-angle brackets (4Crawler): $120
• 2” Body lift and polyurethane body mounts (4Crawler): $221
• Synthetic gear oil, power steering fluid, tranny fluid (Amsoil): $102
• Brake fluid , gear oil, power steering fluid (Bentup): $43
--- Total for SAS: $9,041


4WD Conversion
• 2WD to 4WD adaptor (Inchworm Gear): $700
• Chromoly Output Shaft (Inchworm Gear): $275
• Triple drilled pinion flange: $40
• Front and Rear drive shafts (custom length, 14” spline in front) (local shop in Sac.): $425
• Dual Ultimate Marlin Crawler (Marlin Crawler): $1550
• Speed sensor kit (Marlin Crawler): $50
• T-case mounts (2) (Marlin Crawler): $50x2 =$100 (given free!)
• Dual transfer case crossmember (Marlin Crawler): $195
• Twin stick shifter (Marlin Crawler): $200
• Shifter boots: ~ $20
• Two sets of driveline bolts (Trail Gear): $10
--- Total for 4WD Conversion: $3,465


Wheels & Tires
• Four 37” x 12.5” Good Year MT/Rs (mounted, balanced, warranty) (America’s Tire): $983
• Four 15”x8” ProComp 1079 aluminum alloy rims (lug nuts, caps) (America’s Tire): $331
• Spare 37” x 12.5” Good Year MT/Rs (mounted, balanced, warranty) on 15”x8” ProComp 1079
aluminum alloy rims (lug nuts, caps) (America’s Tire): $354
• 35” spare tire mounted on rim (used): $75
--- Total for Wheels & Tires: $1,743


Armor and Recovery
• ARB bumper: $750
• Rear Custom Bumper (wrap around with rear panel tubes and spare tire mount): ~ $600 (haven’t been charged for this yet)
• Rear hitch: ~ $180
• Rock Sliders: $300
• Brake light guards: $109
• Differential armor for rear: $30
• E-locker motor guard for rear: $50
• Winch: $550
• Synthetic rope: $150
• Hawse fairlead: $40
• D-ring shackles (2): $30
--- Total for Armor and Recovery: $2,789


Performance
• Volant Air Intake (Auto Anything): $255
• Poweraid Throttle Body Spacer (Car-Stuff): $105
• Magnaflow Exhaust (Auto Anything): $399
• URD calibration kit (Split Second PSC1-003 Programmable Signal Calibrator, Innovate LM-1 Air/Fuel Ratio Meter, OBDII BR-3 Scan Tool, 2 USB to serial port adaptors) (URD): $670
• Innovative fuel-air ratio gauge (URD): $130
• Flex-a-Lite Electric Radiator Fan (Summit Racing): $250
• SuperLift Speed Sensor Calibrator (4wheelersupply): $187
--- Total for Performance: $1,996


Electronics
• Alpine Stereo face (Crutchfield): $350
• JPL Amplifier (150Wx4CH = 600W, 2ohm/4ohm, built-in crossover) (Circuit City): $130
• Four Polk speakers (5x7, 2-way speakers, 180W peak, 60W RMS) (E-bay): $90
• Bel-X65 Radar detector (E-bay): $200
• Radar detector cable (Crutchfield): $30
• Battery disconnector (PepBoys): $14
• RCA cables (Pep Boys): $16
• Speaker wire: $20
• Wires, connectors, and fuse holders (Pep Boys): $30
--- Total for Electronics: $880


Accessories
• Truxedo Lo Pro tonnaeu cover (with free Truxseal) (autoanything): $339
• Gap Guards (StylinConcepts): $50
• Mud Flaps (E-bay): $75
• Short chrome antenna (CenCal): $24
• Billet grill: $112
• Hitch safe: $50
• Racing pedals (Pep Boys): $5
• Floor mats (Pep Boys): $20
• Steering wheel cover (Pep Boys): $13
• Front dash and license plate blue lights (Pep Boys): $10
• License plate frame (Pep Boys): $5
• Jesus decal (Berean): $10
--- Total for Accessories: $713


Grand Total for Truck and Parts: $37,664

So there you have it. The only thing I didn't include is the money I'll hopefully make back on the following parts . . .

• Stock tires and rims
• Upper and lower arms
• Rack and pinion steering
• Leaf packs, front shocks and shock towers: $75 (sold)
• Stock rear bumper
• Stock front bumper

[Brain]

Lets take it wheeling and beat the crap out of it! :D

[SAR_Squid79]

Hey Revivalist - I sent you a PM about your tranny / T-case setup. You may have found the solution I need! ...but I have a few questions.

[Revivalist]

Lets take it wheeling and beat the crap out of it! :DYup, that's the plan. . . . Well, except for the part about "beat the crap out of it!" :p . . . . If I could only find some guys to go with. I haven't found anyone who can go in my invitation thread (http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showthread.php?p=606003#post606003).

Hey Revivalist - I sent you a PM about your tranny / T-case setup. You may have found the solution I need! ...but I have a few questions.Hey SAR_Squid79. . . . I responded to your pm.

[migi]

Grand Total for Truck and Parts: $37,664



:eek: !!!WOW!!! :eek:
I was once slightly considering doing this. After this price tag I will steer clear of this mod!!!

:xrocker:Awesome truck though!!! :xrocker:

[Valkyrie]

:eek: !!!WOW!!! :eek:
I was once slightly considering doing this. After this price tag I will steer clear of this mod!!!

:xrocker:Awesome truck though!!! :xrocker:
Well, that includes the price of the truck also. You can do it much cheaper, but you can't do it much better.

[banThis]

I don't think that price reflects anything near an average cost of a swap.

Not even close. Regardless, its got alot of good stuff and good work put into it.

Definately the other end of the spectrum from the 'saw the front off an 85 and set a taco on it' method though :D

[Valkyrie]

Definately the other end of the spectrum from the 'saw the front off an 85 and set a taco on it' method though :D
No kidding!

I agree it's not even close to the average price of a swap, but considering he also converted from a prerunner, plus the crawl box, top-of-the-line everything and he paid labor the whole way through, I don't see how it can compare to "an average swap". :confused:

Nicely built rig for sure. :)

[ocdropzone]

Well, that includes the price of the truck also. You can do it much cheaper, but you can't do it much better.

My wifey saw the total for everything and said I was on something if I thought that I would be able to do a SAS in the near future.
Revivalist did it right, a lot of coin, but if I could go his route, I would too. He has got a truck that will survive and take him just about anywhere. Awesome job on the truck and an awesome write up on the whole project :)

[CronusTRD]

He also has a lot of extra "crap" that doesn't need to be included, such as the accessories, electronics, performance junk as well as some of the SAS stuff. You could do it for a lot less if you had some mechanically inclined friends with good tools, and a decent junkyard near you and are willing to be patient and find used parts.

[ocdropzone]

He also has a lot of extra "crap" that doesn't need to be included, such as the accessories, electronics, performance junk as well as some of the SAS stuff. You could do it for a lot less if you had some mechanically inclined friends with good tools, and a decent junkyard near you and are willing to be patient and find used parts.

You are right, it was the most complete budget that i have seen, down to the cost of stickers....

[Valkyrie]

It's kind of funny to re-read his first post...

Well, I’m planning to overhaul my 2003 Tacoma PreRunner and turn it into a rig that can perform a little better off-road.... I’m trying to keep the budget as low as possible

I can certainly empathize with a project that got out of control. :D

[CronusTRD]

It's kind of funny to re-read his first post...



I can certainly empathize with a project that got out of control. :D

It was the Jesus sticker that broke the budget. He could have probably gotten a few more horsepower with a Mohammed Decal.

[Valkyrie]

or it would have blown itself up in a bottleneck on a trail...

[banThis]

I did everything myself with 4.7's in the crawlbox, coilovers, diamond, etc. for a little over what hes got in his axle alone (and I'm including tax and shipping).

And for the whiners 'Yeah but I don't know what I'm doing, I can't do this bla bla' I could write a book about what I didn't know going in to this and I don't mean 4 link calculations, I mean stuff like 'whats a pitman arm?' :D

Demello and Munssey, etc. probably don't remember me out in JT when I picked up the truck day before New Years- I walked into the winnebago and asked about what connects to the wheels under there, is that like hydro assist? :p

Like I said- that price tag shouldn't be held as any kind of precedent.
Granted, he probably won't have to redo shit to figure out what really works and doesn't- those $$ didn't just pay for labor, they paid for experience (and I can assure you the experience is worth about a fuckton with a bunch of zeroes behind it).

[Revivalist]

I think some folks are ignoring that I am giving the grand total for EVERYTHING, including the price I paid on an almost new truck (14k miles), the SAS, the 4WD conversion and Dual Crawler, the wheels, regearing, all the performance upgrades, the stereo system, etc. . . . If you look at the budget closely, the SAS alone was closer to $9k and that's with the gears, lockers, hydro-assist, etc. . .

Yes, I would have loved to do all the labor myself not just to save the money but for the sake of experience and really knowing my truck. . . . Unfortunately that wouldn't have worked for me. First of all, I know my lady would have gotten really impatient with me coming home from a full time job and working every night on my truck in the garage for a month, not to mention all the spare parts, grease, oil, and noise in the garage. That would not have gone over well at all! :wife: . . . . Secondly, I don't have a welder, plasma cutter, torch, or lift to get the job done fast, and neither do my buddies. . . And thirdly, I know that one wrong mistake can end up costing A LOT more later (like a weak weld on a spring hanger that brakes on the trail). . . . So in my situation I think it was just a lot wiser to pay the extra $$ to have it done. AJ is super-cool to work with and let me watch and lend a hand when possible. But there's now way I would have been able to do what he did on my own.

[MrSammi]

Hey got a question for ya... what/how did your insurance handle the 4x4 conversion thingie...I'm not so concerned with the lift/performance mods, but just telling them your 2WD VIN# is now a 4WD?


...Thanks!

-Mark

[Revivalist]

Hmmm . . . Good point. I didn't even think about it. When I insured it they didn't ask me if it was 2WD or 4WD. . . . . Either way, if I got in a bad acccident, I know they wouldn't even come close to compensating me for the cost of the parts that I put in it . . . Could you imagine trying to get your insurance to replace a $900 Diamond housing, $650 Longfields, $1300 third member, etc. . . . Fat chance! :rolleyes:

[DrVic@BallisticFab]

You just need an endorsement for 30K..... :rofl:

[Revivalist]

I haven't had a chance to take a lot of new pics. But since I last posted we installed an ARB bumper up front with a Warn M8000 winch, hawse fairlead, and synthetic rope. . . .

For the rear Aj custom fabbed a wrap around bumper with rear panel tubes, a hitch, spare tire mount, and D-ring loops. . . . In addition we put a swaybar with quick disconnects, dropped the body lift to 2", and clearanced the front wheelwells a bit. . . .

I finally got a chance to take her wheelin! . . . Here's a pic in my drive way all packed up and ready to roll! . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/02-Off-Road%20Trips/03-Bald_Mountain/BaldMountain1b.jpg


The trail ride went well. I took video clips that I'll piece together and post later. . . . There was only really bad spot where I took a wrong line and leaned her over too close for comfort! . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/02-Off-Road%20Trips/03-Bald_Mountain/BaldMountain4.jpg


We tethered up the front to a tree with the winch and a buddy I met on the trail hooked a tow strap and winch line to the rear of the rock slider. . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/02-Off-Road%20Trips/03-Bald_Mountain/BaldMountain6b.jpg


It turned out fine as I eased off driver's side rocks and tigtened the winch . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/02-Off-Road%20Trips/03-Bald_Mountain/BaldMountain7b.jpg


We made it to the look-out tower at the top but it was already gettin later so the pics came out dark. . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/02-Off-Road%20Trips/03-Bald_Mountain/BaldMountain16.jpg


I got some good video clips that I'll piece together post up later. . . .

[Revivalist]

Hey Captkirkyota . . . . I tried to send you a pm but it seems that forum won't let me . . .

I just wanted to ask you about your rig because my setup is very samiliar to yours . . .

I was wondering if you are experiencing severe body roll on the trail? When I took my rig out wheelin I was a bit disappointed by how it handled. It felt extremely tipsy on even the slightest off-camber spots. . . .

I was expecting the axle to articulate so that the body stays level. But instead it seemed like the body was just tipping over in the direction that the rocks made me lean. . . . I wondered if my body lift is the reason and I know that you have a 2" body lift also. . . . Have you experienced this?

I know that my front springs are definitely a problem. They're the Trail Gear 5" set and they're obviously not made to hold up a V6 double-cab with an ARB bumper and winch. . . . Do you think that replacing the springs should solve the problem or do I have to get rid of the body lift first and then get higher springs that will make up the extra 2" I need to clear the tires?

Thanks for any help. I really appreciate it.

[hawaiianbro]

Get rid of the body lift and cut your fenders / firewall.

Your truck is fairly tall, so tippiness is something you should get used to.

[snowchucker]

IMO the 5" trail gear springs are way too soft your tacoma. if you want to loose the pucker factor, the only ways are to stiffen up the suspension and lower your center of gravity. take out the body lift, throw on a smaller shackle set if possible, hack the fenders to make the tires fit and find some stiffer springs (44044's, Alcans, etc..)
and if you think you have body roll, you should drive my truck.

[Brain]

I'm going to agree with peetie and Chuck on this one. Lower it, get new springs, take out the body lift (sucks that you built protection around it), get new steel wheels that will widen your stance a bit. Hack the firewall up to clear the tires, it's not too hard :)

[Revivalist]

Ok, I already starting cutting at the firewall. . . . But somebody said that I should be careful about cutting the pinchweld because it holds the body together. I already cut off quite a bit. . . . Is that gonna cause problems?

[ocdropzone]

Your truck looks great, but like they have said, lower the center of gravity. My '84 with 5" springs and 2" body tipped pretty good in off camber too. I learned to take it very easy. I did a search for the pinch weld mod, a ton of stuff came up. Sorry did not have time to go through all of them...but I am sure that there is some pictures with what you will need to do.. You will need to re-enforce what ever you remove. I am about to do it on my '05..Like generalee7 said, a set of the steelies would definately help your stance (maybe have a set for just wheeling)

[Brain]

Cutting out the pinch weld probably makes the body weaker in that area but I haven't had any problems :confused:

http://www.norcalttora.com/~reynolds/random%20pics/nomorepinchweld.JPG
http://www.norcalttora.com/~reynolds/random%20pics/nomorepinchweld1.JPG
http://www.norcalttora.com/~reynolds/random%20pics/nomorepinchweld2.JPG

[ocdropzone]

nice job--those pic's tell it all..a bit different than what I will have to do on the front mounts on my '05 but should give Revivalist the right idea...
Generalee7: you have got a cool truck..

[Revivalist]

Wow, that does look great! . . . What did you use to do all that cutting? Just a grinder or a plasma cutter? . . . . And about how long did it take you to do the whole job (both sides)? I heard from the guys at Marlin Crawler that it can be a whole day's project to do it right!

[Brain]

In all honesty, it took me like 5 hours start to finish. I lit my carpet on fire a couple times, make sure you have a wet rag on the other side so that doesn't happen :) I used a 4" grinder with a cut off wheel. A plasma cutter would have blown all the metal slag to the inside and caught more stuff on fire, not to mention I don't even have one :cool: It's pretty easy if you know what you need to cut out. I just started cutting and figured it out from there :)

[Captkirkyota]

Hey Captkirkyota . . . . I tried to send you a pm but it seems that forum won't let me . . .

I just wanted to ask you about your rig because my setup is very samiliar to yours . . .

I was wondering if you are experiencing severe body roll on the trail? When I took my rig out wheelin I was a bit disappointed by how it handled. It felt extremely tipsy on even the slightest off-camber spots. . . .

I was expecting the axle to articulate so that the body stays level. But instead it seemed like the body was just tipping over in the direction that the rocks made me lean. . . . I wondered if my body lift is the reason and I know that you have a 2" body lift also. . . . Have you experienced this?

I know that my front springs are definitely a problem. They're the Trail Gear 5" set and they're obviously not made to hold up a V6 double-cab with an ARB bumper and winch. . . . Do you think that replacing the springs should solve the problem or do I have to get rid of the body lift first and then get higher springs that will make up the extra 2" I need to clear the tires?

Thanks for any help. I really appreciate it.
I have 3 inch lift Alcans and have done no cutting up front and have no body roll that I feel, if I do it has not ever been detectable by me anyway.
So 5 inchers are high. So to answer , getting higher springs is a no way. My front shackles also are angled back more so that my height is lower than your too. With out seeing your up close compared to mine I can't tell you what I'd want to do, but I do know this much, AJ, Brian and Chuck and most all the other Nor-cal guys up by you are super qualified more than I to help you get it done right.

[Revivalist]

Ok, so let me ask the question this way . . . It is better to have 3" lift springs and a 2" body lift or 5" lift springs and no body lift? . . . I'm wondering because if the second option will elminate my body roll and give better articulation then I might consider going through the huge hassle of removing the body lift. . . .

[Brain]

Ok, so let me ask the question this way . . . It is better to have 3" lift springs and a 2" body lift or 5" lift springs and no body lift? . . . I'm wondering because if the second option will elminate my body roll and give better articulation then I might consider going through the huge hassle of removing the body lift. . . .

Nothing will eliminate body roll completely. Pick your lines better or just get used to it :) Welcome to the world of having a flexy suspension

Also, the only thing that will reduce the amount of body roll is to increase your track width and lower the truck as much as you can. You can't keep it the same height it is now and get less body roll, it's just not possible.

[snowchucker]

First i'd ditch the super silly soft Trail Gear springs and pick up a set of good Alcan's.
Install the new springs and adjust the rear lift as required to match the front. Lower it an inch or two if possible.
The Trail Gear springs just cant handle the weight of a double cab v6 w/ all the mods you have. they were originally made for little 4banger light weight toyotas.

If that doesnt work, look into ditching the body lift then.. but it would be a major PITA to take it out.

[Revivalist]

Yes, I definitely agree that I need to get rid of the springs I've got in front and put some heavier duty springs that are suited for my application. . . .

But I figured that I need to make a decision about my body lift first because if get new springs with the body lift, they need to give at least a 4" lift. . . . If I get springs without the body lift, they need to give at least a 6" lift. . . .

[Brain]

Yes, I definitely agree that I need to get rid of the springs I've got in front and put some heavier duty springs that are suited for my application. . . .

But I figured that I need to make a decision about my body lift first because if get new springs with the body lift, they need to give at least a 4" lift. . . . If I get springs without the body lift, they need to give at least a 6" lift. . . .

The only way to actually acheive a true 6" of lift is to run stock 7 leaf Waggy leaf springs and those springs are pretty weak. Your best bet is to possibly just run 44044's and pull one leaf out of them. I'm at about 7" of lift without a body lift and it feels pretty stable most of the time. I'd still like to be a little wider though :D

[Valkyrie]

Get rid of the body lift first.

Swap the springs second.

Tirm to fit or get tires that fit.

[bkg]

Redo springs first, remove body lift second... ;)

[Revivalist]

Well, which one is it . . . change the springs first or remove the body lift first? . . .

To be honest I'm leaning toward changing the springs first because it's so much easier and I know it has to be done anyways. (Of course, the problem with that is I may put springs that are too low and don't allow me to take the body lift off later. :rolleyes: )

Just give an idea, here's all that would be involved in removing the body lift . . .

Refab front & rear bumper mounts
Cut out top of front fenders for shock hoops
Shorten steering shaft
Adjust tranny linkage
Refab t-case crossmember
Readjust t-case height (Unclock?)
Refab rear shock crossmember
Remove body lift blocks

As you can see, it's no small affair. So I'm thinking I should try solving the problem with better springs first.

[Sisyphus]

Unclock, I like it. I prefer declock, reclock and retroclock better myself. :lmao:

Ditch the body lift. Get under your truck with a BFH and beat it into submission until the crawler will fit. Do the work to get it lower. Get stiffer springs, but keep it low. Grab the sawzall to take care of clearancing issues. If you got that tippy on bald mountain, just imagine whats going to happen on Dusy or the Rubicon. Change out the tires if you have to, but get it lower or get it wider.

[Captkirkyota]

Well, which one is it . . . change the springs first or remove the body lift first? . . .

To be honest I'm leaning toward changing the springs first because it's so much easier and I know it has to be done anyways. (Of course, the problem with that is I may put springs that are too low and don't allow me to take the body lift off later. :rolleyes:)

Just give an idea, here's all that would be involved in removing the body lift . . .

Refab front & rear bumper mounts
Cut out top of front fenders for shock hoops
Shorten steering shaft
Adjust tranny linkage
Refab t-case crossmember
Readjust t-case height (Unclock?)
Refab rear shock crossmember
Remove body lift blocks

As you can see, it's no small affair. So I'm thinking I should try solving the problem with better springs first.

Without seeing your truck you'll have to take this just under advisement and measure your truck.

First, how much up travel do you need/want? I have mine set up so that I get about 3-5 inches up travel (5 inches is achieved under forced compression, ie axles are scissored in an X front to rear http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/captkirkyota/Random%20pics/P2200003.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/captkirkyota/Random%20pics/P2200004.jpg I'm on 38.5's in this pic), that is to say, my springs sit 2.5-3 inches away from my bump stops and the bump stops compress prolly the same as much. You truck looks like it has 7-8 inches of up travel! Unless you wanna jump at pismo all the time, you can get lower springs all around, adjust your stops and be done. Think about it, 2 inches is not as long as your thumb, having your BODY up that much is not gonna effect your truck roll hardly at all, the body part of your truck does not weight as much, what you need to do is get some Alcans like I've got, which are the kind AJ installed on a few truck, just minus orbit eyes and get your FRAME height right at the front body mount to around 26 inches + or - an inch or so. Lowering the truck as a whole will lessen tippyness dropping the body down onto a frame and substructure of a truck that is still too high will have NOMINAL effect on body roll which is really entire truck roll due to too soft a spring. That pic of you o that hill clearly shows the suspension letting your truck lean so much.
Here are my spring specs if you so desire to get the same.........

The front leafs are from Alcan Springs made to Tacoma weight but made the same as
85 Toyota Front stock length
3.0" lift
7 Leaf pack
7)- 7mm thick leafs
2.0" Center pin Offset toward the front

The rears are also Alcan and spec as follows
00 Tacoma Rear stock length
5.0" Lift
3)- 7mm Thick Leafs (8leaf pack)
1-1/2" extended on the tail

More examples of my travel with 37's
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/captkirkyota/ahl.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/captkirkyota/289807337wJyjvQ_ph.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/captkirkyota/Ruler%20and%20Scorpion%20run%20Nov%205%202005/15.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/captkirkyota/Ruler%20and%20Scorpion%20run%20Nov%205%202005/16.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/captkirkyota/Ruler%20and%20Scorpion%20run%20Nov%205%202005/17.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/captkirkyota/Ruler%20and%20Scorpion%20run%20Nov%205%202005/20.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/captkirkyota/Ruler%20and%20Scorpion%20run%20Nov%205%202005/29.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/captkirkyota/Ruler%20and%20Scorpion%20run%20Nov%205%202005/31.jpg

[Dick Foster]

Lets answer this way. BLs just plain suck and are for mall runners only. If you had followed the consensuses of opinion here you would never have put it on in the first place. However, it's never too late to correct a mistake so ditch the BL then correct the springs.
You might want to think about a sway bar. Some folks running a leaf spring setups have even added a Panhard bar as well.

[FAUX X 4]

Lets answer this way. BLs just plain suck and are for mall runners only. If you had followed the consensuses of opinion here you would never have put it on in the first place. However, it's never too late to correct a mistake so ditch the BL then correct the springs.
You might want to think about a sway bar. Some folks running a leaf spring setups have even added a Panhard bar as well.

Way to sugar coat it Dick!!! :rolleyes: :lmao:

[Dick Foster]

Well you know how I am. I just can't be gentle enough. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings or bruise any egos ya know.

[FAUX X 4]

Well you know how I am. I just can't be gentle enough. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings or bruise any egos ya know.

:lmao: .................A kinder, Gentler Dick Foster http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/heatstroke/wheelchair.gif???

...........I don't buy it! ;)

[TBob]

I did this to solve that problem
http://www.imagestation.com/album/index.html?id=2115200839&=guest


I found out that my passenger tire rubs slightly on the windshield wiper reservoir. . . . I heard that I could replace it with one from an old truck. TAP has one for an '85 pickup. Will that work?

[snowchucker]

I did this to solve that problem
http://www.imagestation.com/album/index.html?id=2115200839&=guest

my solution. coolant overflow tanks from summit used for washer fluid. have a matching one on the other side for actual coolant.

http://www.norcalttora.com/~chuck/Rig%20Photos/P1210011.JPG
http://www.norcalttora.com/~chuck/Rig%20Photos/P1210015.JPG

the capacity is a bit small, but its cheap, bullet proof, looks good, and is an easy mod.

[Valkyrie]

Well, which one is it . . . change the springs first or remove the body lift first? . . .

To be honest I'm leaning toward changing the springs first because it's so much easier and I know it has to be done anyways. (Of course, the problem with that is I may put springs that are too low and don't allow me to take the body lift off later. :rolleyes:)

Just give an idea, here's all that would be involved in removing the body lift . . .

Refab front & rear bumper mounts
Cut out top of front fenders for shock hoops
Shorten steering shaft
Adjust tranny linkage
Refab t-case crossmember
Readjust t-case height (Unclock?)
Refab rear shock crossmember
Remove body lift blocks

As you can see, it's no small affair. So I'm thinking I should try solving the problem with better springs first.
Get rid of the body lift first.

Swap the springs second.

Trim to fit or get tires that fit.

You are looking for someone to tell you what you want to hear, but everyone here has exepreince and understanding of the situation and is telling you the same thing.

We all understand what a project it will be.

[Captkirkyota]

my solution. coolant overflow tanks from summit used for washer fluid. have a matching one on the other side for actual coolant.

http://www.norcalttora.com/~chuck/Rig%20Photos/P1210011.JPG
http://www.norcalttora.com/~chuck/Rig%20Photos/P1210015.JPG

the capacity is a bit small, but its cheap, bullet proof, looks good, and is an easy mod.
Off topic: (real quick-like)
What radiator is that? is it sufficient in your opinion for phoenix heat and slow crawling? What electric fan is that? How does it work out? I've seen so many posts about E-fans not working well enough I've been eskeered to try one.
Thanks.

[snowchucker]

Radiator is a custom dual core Almn built to an 88 turbo 4runner dimensions (i have an 85 frame which is much narrower).
Fan is a Flexalite 14" slimline. so far it has worked great, but it never gets 120 here either.
If you went w/ a full size tacoma almn radiator and dual electrics there would be no question about cooling capability.
Summit may have a budget almn radiator depending on the size you need. I ended up going custom ($$$$$) since no one stocks it on the shelf anyway.

[Dick Foster]

I had the same problem. I got a reservoir from a Subaru and modified it with part of the neck from the Tacoma reservoir then mounted it in the front bumper. I drilled a hole in the top of the bumper so now the cap is on the top deck. Keeping it topped up is easier than it ever was.

[Dick Foster]

:eek: What is that, about 5 years between needing to refill it. And here I thought I was guilty of over kill. :D

[Revivalist]

Well, it’s not really that I’m looking for someone to tell me what I want to hear. . . . If removing the body lift is the best choice, then I’m willing to spend the extra, time, money, effort, etc. . . . Afterall, why would I take my truck this far and then skimp on something like removing a body lift. . . .

But what I am looking is more explanation on the tech involved with a suspension lift versus a body lift, and why exactly a suspension lift is better than a body lift. I know that mall crawlers use body lifts, but honestly I don’t really care about that. I’m not trying to be in style or out of style. I’m just trying to get the most functional rig possible. . .

Captkirkyota has offered a lot of good insight. . . . I’ve been thinking about the question from a physics perspective and it seems to me there are both advantages and disadvantage to a body lift. . . .

Let’s assume someone has already cut their fenders and firewalls as much as they are able (or willing). . . . And let’s say they still need a total of 6” of lift to clear their tires. . . . Now they need to choose whether to use to use a 6” suspension lift or a combination of suspension lift and body lift. . . .

Option One: 6” lift from springs and no body lift.

Option Two: 1-3” of body lift with 3-5” of suspension lift to give a total of 6” lift.

From a center of gravity perspective, adding a body lift is better because we know that a suspension lift will raise the center of gravity much more. With a suspension lift you are also lifting the frame, engine, transmission, exhaust, gas tank, and bumpers along with the body. . . . This translates into more likelihood to roll the truck on a slope. This is where a body lift has the advantage. . . .

Here’s some diagrams I cooked up to show what I mean. I'm assuming that for a normal truck the center of gravity is roughly where the engine meets the frame. For a truck with a body lift, it would only rise slightly because the body is not nearly as massive as the frame, engine, etc. . . .Wth this in mind, I'm thinking that a truck with a suspension lift would roll on the same hill that a truck with a body lift would not . . . Here's what I mean . . . Notice that the center of mass for the truck with a suspension lift falls past the tire edge while the truck with the body lift is still stable. . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/05-Truck%20related/BodyLiftversusSuspensionLift.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/05-Truck%20related/BodyLiftversusSuspensionLiftonhill.jpg


On the other hand, a higher body lift will cause more body roll. I guess that would look something like this . . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/05-Truck%20related/Bodyroll.jpg


But there's something important to remember here . . . In this case, we're talking about an axis of rotation that goes through the center of the truck. That's not a rotation that we need to worry about as much as rotation about an axis that is at the edge of the wheel . . . .

In other words, rotation about an axis that goes through the center of the truck just makes the driver feel like he's tipping over. But rotation about an axis at the edge of the wheel means that the truck actually is tipping over! . . .

So it seems to me so far that a body lift might make the truck FEEL more tipsy (since the body roll makes the driver lean over more) but in actuality, the center of gravity is lower than if the whole truck was lifted up higher with a suspension lift . . .

Now the nice thing is that the excess body roll could always be solved with stiffer springs or a swaybar. Of course that does limit the articulation but there's some give and take in this game, right?. . .

So it seems like it all comes down to trying to minimize the height of the center of gravity and minimize the body roll while at the same time maximizing the articulation. . . .

But the original point I wanted to make is that I don’t see why body lifts are considered so bad when they actually help to lower the center of gravity?. . .

[Revivalist]

By the way, Captkirkyota, how did you manage to fit 37" tires under a 5" lift (3" suspension and 2" body) without any cutting in the front ? . . . I have 7" lift and my axle was put as far forward as possible, but I still need to clearance my firewall. . . . I noticed that you removed the splash guards. Did that help to gain some clearance?. . . .

[Valkyrie]

So it seems like it’s a balance between height of center of gravity, body roll, and articulation. . . . I don’t see why body lifts are considered so bad when they actually help to lower the center of gravity?. . .
IMHO, the first flaw in your rationaliziation is that you are basing it off of drawings with the vehicle static parked on a slope.

In that very particular instance, CG is the primary factor, with the weight bearing capacity of the springs being a secondary factor.

That picture is a duplication of the tippy feeling you had when your truck was pictured parked on a slope.

Driving across a slope has a different effect than driving through changing camber terrain, because the speed of the vehicle coupled with the height and approach to the obstacle create an accelerating rolling moment. The severity (speed) of the moment will cause higher CG vehicles to flop quicker than lower CG vehicles.

The assumtions fail in your illustration of a 3" BL and a 3" SL because the 3" SL will articulate half as much as a 6" SL (all else being equal). Therefore, when the 3" SL is at it's upper limit, the suspension will have no further travel room and the entire vehicle will react to the moment.

In that case, you can see how 'Truck A' with a 3" SL and a 3" BL will flop first due to it's high CG before 'Truck B' with a 6" SL will, or for that matter before 'Truck C' with a 3" SL only will.

The rolling moment is what you are not considering, which will cause a quick flop.

The cross-slope driving that caused the panic for you is, as I said earlier, primarily a factor of CG in conjunction with soft springs. As you traverse across a slope with an increasing pitch, the vehicle will compress to the downhill side until CG takes over and it flops... BL or not.

I’m just trying to get the most functional rig possible. . .
That is why I suggested BL first, followed by springs.

Adding track via wider axles (full-width 44 or 60's) is one way people minimize the rolling moment, as is adding unsprung weight, heavier armor underneath, wheel spacers and of course, keeping the vehicle as low as possible.

That is why I suggested either cutting to fit the tire you want or if you are unable/unwilling to cut any more, decrease the tire size until you are using every single bit of articulation you have without issue.

Sorry, I don't draw. :)

[FAUX X 4]

it's simple really..........if you want to do whatever you can to make the truck stable................shoot for making it wider than it is tall. :D

[Brain]

There is only one thing you should be concerned with. Get it lower. Whether it's removing the body lift or getting smaller springs, get it lower.

I am looking at your pictures and it says "9 inch lift," so technically, you can take out that body lift and have 6" of suspension lift, right? Do it.

How far off the ground is your frame? I have 25" of ground clearance to the bottom of the frame, you might have about the same as me maybe a little taller. I also have 10" between the top of my tire to the highest point in the fender well. It looks to me that your truck has 12-14" of clearance in that area. Even in this case, removing the body lift will give you plenty of clearance for 37's (I'm running 37's as well) once you cut the pinch weld off.

How bad do your tires rub? A tiny bit? With that wide axle, you shouldn't be rubbing the pinch weld all that much. It will rub more once you lower it though. Cut it out!

My truck doesn't feel all that tippy until I have to drive on a hill sideways, then my seat sucks into my ass. Sometimes there isn't a way around sidehills like that, sometimes there are. My point: choose better lines. Once you lower it and wheel more, you will get a feel for your truck better and know which lines to take. It's all in due time...

[Dick Foster]

Dayum, Chris. I am impressed.

[Dick Foster]

Good advice, Brian. Right up until you told him to cut out his pinch weld.
It's much better to hammer it over flat so that the strength of the sheet metal attachment is maintained as much as possible.

[Valkyrie]

Dayum, Chris. I am impressed.
:D

All helo bubbas know CG and Newton 1,2 & 3...

[FAUX X 4]

My truck doesn't feel all that tippy until I have to drive on a hill sideways, then my seat sucks into my ass. Sometimes there isn't a way around sidehills like that, sometimes there are.

Sidehills can definately take some getting used to!!! :eek:

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i267/FAUX_X_4/Woodys%20Wash%207_06/IMG_0464.jpg

[Brain]

Good advice, Brian. Right up until you told him to cut out his pinch weld.
It's much better to hammer it over flat so that the strength of the sheet metal attachment is maintained as much as possible.

I cut mine out and plated that area in with sheet metal. Seem to have no issues so far :confused: :D

[Dick Foster]

I would expect not being the mall runner that you are. :D

[Dick Foster]

Like taking the slab route on the con. I hate that shit.

[FAUX X 4]

I would expect not being the mall runner that you are. :D

Hey, at least I know where my strengths are.............. :driving: Isle 7!

[Dick Foster]

That would be funny if I had been talking to you. But, as usual you can't track treads worth a squat.

[Captkirkyota]

By the way, Captkirkyota, how did you manage to fit 37" tires under a 5" lift (3" suspension and 2" body) without any cutting in the front ? . . . I have 7" lift and my axle was put as far forward as possible, but I still need to clearance my firewall. . . . I noticed that you removed the splash guards. Did that help to gain some clearance?. . . .

First off, most hate body lifts because they strain the body and can crack the body due to the increased leverage on the body. That and because of how many posers use them and hardcore off roaders don't like being remotely associated with posers.
That aside.
Specific issues you have asked about throughout this thread.
Your springs though they are 5 " for a toy truck prolly are not giving you even 3" of lift. My springs are 3 " for a toy truck but made for TACOMA weight, so I'm getting the lift I wanted and need. Also, your axle may be as far fwd as you could get with your springs, but my springs may have a center pin farther fwd thus moving my axle farther fwd.
Yes you may rub, I might too if I had either no bump stops or have them set where your are. If I did not have bump stops I'd most definitely rub.
The length of your shackles if longer than mine will allow your axle to fold back farther and thus touch your fender well.
I took out the inner plastic to fill in the irritating clip holes for the fender flares and have never gotten to them and have not put them back.

We call it body roll, but it is not your body that is rolling, it is your suspension. AJ, who built your rig has told you to start with your super soft springs. I agree, do that FIRST, it is easiest, and you are GONNA do it after you remove the BL when you discover that it's removal will not accomplish what you WANT.
The only reason I kept my BL was I knew that I'd clock my transfer-case one day and did not want to have to obliterate my underside with a hammer nor do I have the skill or desire to cut it and do the necessary fabbing of the body afterword.
Get your spring issue fixed first IMO and if after that you are worried about the BL, then remove it. My :2cents:

[toycoma732]

I know that everyone is saying ditch the body lift and your proly getting tired of hearing it, but in my truck i had the 2 inch body lift as well...

The main difference i noticed was the overall feel of the truck, yes the suspension lift would be the same height as the body lift...but considering your going to do some serious wheeling in your rig I personally wouldnt run it.

On another note, you have already adjusted your suspension to allow for the body lift, so unless you plan on keeping the same springs, i wouldnt ditch the body lift just to get 2 inches more of suspension doesnt make sense...

But if you are going to keep the same springs than lose the body lift... keep your center of gravity low, do some hacking and i guarantee you will be much happier with the low center of gravity...

Body lift:

Advantages are:
1. Cheapest way of making room for larger tires.
2. Inexpensive.
3. Provides room for greater articulation when larger tires are
mounted and the axle is up against the bump stop. (but so does a suspension lift).

Disadvantages:
1. Doesn't increase the ground clearance.
2. May require other changes to transmission/ transfer case
linkages, wiring, and the fuel filler.

Bottom line:
If you want to get rid of the body lift just to add two more inches in suspension
-Dont lose the body lift
If you want to keep your same springs, and end up with a lower center of gravity
-Lose the body lift
:2cents:

[snowchucker]

[QUOTE=Captkirkyota]
We call it body roll, but it is not your body that is rolling, it is your suspension. AJ, who built your rig has told you to start with your super soft springs. I agree, do that FIRST, it is easiest, and you are GONNA do it after you remove the BL when you discover that it's removal will not accomplish what you WANT.
QUOTE]


we didn't buy or supply the springs. just installed what the customer showed up with. the BL was always recomended for removal, but it was only swapped from a 3" to a 2".
lets just say we would never recomend a Trail Gear product due to other reasons.

[Revivalist]

Thanks for all the input, guys. . . .

Driving across a slope has a different effect than driving through changing camber terrain, because the speed of the vehicle coupled with the height and approach to the obstacle create an accelerating rolling moment. The severity (speed) of the moment will cause higher CG vehicles to flop quicker than lower CG vehicles.

The assumtions fail in your illustration of a 3" BL and a 3" SL because the 3" SL will articulate half as much as a 6" SL (all else being equal). Therefore, when the 3" SL is at it's upper limit, the suspension will have no further travel room and the entire vehicle will react to the moment.

@ valkyrie – Ok, from what you wrote I see that my analysis was indeed neglecting the affect of dynamic motion along a hill while actually traversing it. If I understood correctly, your point is that the SL is superior to the BL because the extra travel of a SL allows for articulation over an obstacle rather than just causing the truck to tip over as in the case of a BL . So basically when your cruising along the side of a hill and then you climb over that rock that’s in the way, a SL will let the axles just articulate while the BL will cause the whole truck to tilt over . . . . Am I understanding you correctly? . . .

I am looking at your pictures and it says "9 inch lift," so technically, you can take out that body lift and have 6" of suspension lift, right? Do it.

How far off the ground is your frame? I have 25" of ground clearance to the bottom of the frame, you might have about the same as me maybe a little taller. I also have 10" between the top of my tire to the highest point in the fender well. It looks to me that your truck has 12-14" of clearance in that area. Even in this case, removing the body lift will give you plenty of clearance for 37's (I'm running 37's as well) once you cut the pinch weld off.

@ Generalee7 – Yes, my pics say 9” lift because at the time I had a 3” BL and the springs were still unsettled giving 6” of lift . . . . Since then the springs settled giving 5” of lift and the BL was reduce to 2” giving a total of 7”. . . . My frame to ground is 27”. . . My tires don’t rub that bad but enough to keep happening on the trail. I’m definitely gonna cut the pinchweld and then reinforce it. I really like how you did yours.. . I think I’ll do the cutting and then take it over to Marlin’s to have some medal welded on. . . .


Your springs though they are 5 " for a toy truck prolly are not giving you even 3" of lift. My springs are 3 " for a toy truck but made for TACOMA weight, so I'm getting the lift I wanted and need. Also, your axle may be as far fwd as you could get with your springs, but my springs may have a center pin farther fwd thus moving my axle farther fwd.
Yes you may rub, I might too if I had either no bump stops or have them set where your are. If I did not have bump stops I'd most definitely rub.

The only reason I kept my BL was I knew that I'd clock my transfer-case one day and did not want to have to obliterate my underside with a hammer nor do I have the skill or desire to cut it and do the necessary fabbing of the body afterword.
Get your spring issue fixed first IMO and if after that you are worried about the BL, then remove it. My :2cents:

@ Captkirkyota – Surprisingly, the springs are still giving me 5” of lift. But they’re almost flattened out and they cause the front of the truck to dive even at a stop sign! . . . . You mentioned that your springs may have a center pin that’s further forward. Does that mean that I can still move my axle further forward even though the steering box was already setup to make the axle as far forward as possible? . .. So how much extra shift could that give? . . .Concerning bumpstops, I’m just using the set from Trail Gear that came with the axle. I considered using the 4.5” bumpstops from Poly Performance but I was thinking that it would kill the up-travel too much. . . .

As for the BL making room to clock the t-cases, I have mine clocked 10 degrees right now. I talked to AJ and he said that we wouldn’t have to unclock it if we lowered it to make room for lowering the body. But it would still cause the rear drive shaft to drop a bit. In fact, he said we might need to have it retubed because it would be too long . . . . All in all, the job to remove the BL would cost about $1000+ in parts and labor! . . . .

On another note, you have already adjusted your suspension to allow for the body lift, so unless you plan on keeping the same springs, i wouldnt ditch the body lift just to get 2 inches more of suspension doesnt make sense...

But if you are going to keep the same springs than lose the body lift... keep your center of gravity low, do some hacking and i guarantee you will be much happier with the low center of gravity...

@toycoma732 – Yes, I agree that buying new springs just so that I can ditch the BL wouldn’t really be worth it. But since these springs are too soft then I have to get some new springs anyways and that’s what got me thinking that maybe I should remove the BL now before I choose the springs . . . . Unfortunately I don’t think I could clearance the fenders any further unless I remove the splash guards and starting cutting up higher from there. But I sort of like the splash guards. (I know, stupid reason.) . . .. By the way, I see you’re gonna start building an 04 Double Cab. Sweet! Got pics. . . .

we didn't buy or supply the springs. just installed what the customer showed up with. the BL was always recomended for removal, but it was only swapped from a 3" to a 2".
lets just say we would never recomend a Trail Gear product due to other reasons.

@snowchucker – Well, I hope you don’t mind if I clarify what actually happened. It’s true that AJ simply installed the Trail Gear springs because that’s what I showed up with. But since I wanted to run 37” tires, he said that we would need to leave the BL. So technically it was never recommended that I remove the BL. . . . After finding that the truck was too high (for wheelin and for just fitting in my garage!), I requested that the body lift be lowered an inch. We couldn’t do anything more at that point because of the various things already built around the body lift. . .. . .

Anyhow, long story short, much of this was the result of starting off with the wrong parts. If I knew then what I know now, I wouldn’t have gotten the Trail Gear springs that are made for an 85 pickup. . . . I would’ve just gotten a custom set of Alcans that give a 6” lift and I would have removed the BL from the start. . . . Oh well, live and learn I guess.

I know Trail Gear is planning to come out with some heavier duty springs made for a Tacoma. Maybe they would be willing to swap out my set and let me be one of the first to test run them. . . . I think that would be the cheapest solution for me at this point. . . ..

[Captkirkyota]

[QUOTE=Captkirkyota]
We call it body roll, but it is not your body that is rolling, it is your suspension. AJ, who built your rig has told you to start with your super soft springs. I agree, do that FIRST, it is easiest, and you are GONNA do it after you remove the BL when you discover that it's removal will not accomplish what you WANT.
QUOTE]


we didn't buy or supply the springs. just installed what the customer showed up with. the BL was always recomended for removal, but it was only swapped from a 3" to a 2".
lets just say we would never recomend a Trail Gear product due to other reasons.
Oh, I know you did not supply them. I also know you prolly recommended removal too. I too will never allow a dime of my money go to TG either for prolly the same reasons as you guys.
Have no fear, integrity is an earned thing, in which you guys have earned and deserve the reputation of having, so using parts supplied by a customer from a vendor without it, is not your fault and in no way reflects poorly on Bentup. :)
As as with all the work AJ and crew does..... :clap: :clap: :headbang:

[nomayota]

one thing to think about is that the 5" trail gear springs are the softest springs they sell and also 27" to the frame is really high, espescially if you also have a 2" body lift. Also if you look at the TG site they now sell a Heavy duty 5" spring pack that has a 25% higher spring rate. Those would probably be a good option for you. Also as cool as that spare tire carrier is it mounts the tire up pretty high and thats gonna make you all the more tippy. I have never seen a reason to even carry a spare. Ive never got a flat with my mtrs and if I did i would just stick a plug in it

[Revivalist]

Wow! I didn't know they already have those on their website . . . I think I'm gonna have to pay them a visit and see what they can do about these flattened ones that I put on only a month ago. . . . I think it would be fair if they would switch them out considering they knew that I needed these springs for a V6 D-cab Tacoma. . . .

As for the tire carrier, yes you're right, it does add more weight up high which will raise my cog. AJ set it up for me because I thought it's a good idea to have a full spare on the trail and the biggest that would fit under the truck is a 35". I also didn't want to put the spare in the bed b/c it wouldn't leave room for my gear. . . . But I guess I'll have to reconsider leaving that spare tire mount on there since I'm trying to do all I can to be less tipsy.

[nomayota]

Yeah you should be able to get that things body roll into control pretty easily starting with those springs. I noticed in your flex pics that your rear wasnt really flexing but your front was so that is a sure sign of running too soft of front springs.

BTW- sick truck im stealing alot of ideas of of it for my build, I ordered my 64" diamond a couple weeks ago and have an old marlin skid plate im gonna cut and make just like yours is plus lots of other stuff except im only gonna run about 4" overall lift with 40" iroks for trail duty and 35" baja claw for street time and I only have a reg cab

[Revivalist]

. . . im only gonna run about 4" overall lift with 40" iroks . . . Wow! . . . Are you gonna obliterate the fenders!

[Captkirkyota]

I have never seen a reason to even carry a spare. Ive never got a flat with my mtrs and if I did i would just stick a plug in it
You then are lucky, and not running hard enough trails. I have twice now punctured 2 side walls with in 50 yards or less and needed to use someone elses spare because they were not plug-gable. Try and plug this.........
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/captkirkyota/PB280009_2.jpg

[Timbuddha]

You then are lucky, and not running hard enough trails. I have twice now punctured 2 side walls with in 50 yards or less and needed to use someone elses spare because they were not plug-gable. Try and plug this.........
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/captkirkyota/PB280009_2.jpg

:xozzy: :xozzy: That's my boy!!

Kirk is right, I have gone through two MTRs, both at Johnson Valley. Carry a spare, because I'm not letting you have mine. Plugs are worthless unless you have a freaking nail in your tire.

Tim

[Revivalist]

Yikes! . . . Yes, I've read of these things happening many times and that's what made me want to carry a full spare. . . .

I've been considering just carrying a 35" under the truck because I found that as a street spare it works great. You can't even notice that one tire is a 35" while the others are 37" . . . . But would that pose a problem on the trail, especially if using a locker? . . . . And would the reduced clearance under the bed when the spare is mounted there be likely to make much difference on the trail? . . .

[Captkirkyota]

Yikes! . . . Yes, I've read of these things happening many times and that's what made me want to carry a full spare. . . .

I've been considering just carrying a 35" under the truck because I found that as a street spare it works great. You can't even notice that one tire is a 35" while the others are 37" . . . . But would that pose a problem on the trail, especially if using a locker? . . . . And would the reduced clearance under the bed when the spare is mounted there be likely to make much difference on the trail? . . .
ALWAYS X10 billion, CARRY A FULL SIZE SPARE! Period end of story no matter what kind of statements you read.
Also, just get some Alcans already! :whip: :deadhors: :D :D

[Brain]

Amen! My bed is the same length as a double cab bed and I just throw the spare back there :D

[snowchucker]

As for the tire carrier, yes you're right, it does add more weight up high which will raise my cog. AJ set it up for me because I thought it's a good idea to have a full spare on the trail and the biggest that would fit under the truck is a 35". I also didn't want to put the spare in the bed b/c it wouldn't leave room for my gear. . . . But I guess I'll have to reconsider leaving that spare tire mount on there since I'm trying to do all I can to be less tipsy.


the spare tire on there wont effect you much. you should see how high i stack my gear when we go wheeling. our last rubicon run i had tires and coolers stacked up even w/ the roof of my rig.
Just pick up some new stiffer springs and try them out. just moving your rig in the parking lot at the shop i could tell they were super soft. when you jab the brakes the front end should not dive 6"+.

[Revivalist]

when you jab the brakes the front end should not dive 6"+.Hmm, yeah, I guess that should have probably been my first hint that the springs aren't exactly up to par. :missingto

[bkg]

No offense, but the only person I would listen to here is the Captain. He is the only one with sound, tried advice. The "lose the BL" crowd doesn't seem to understand that they serve a purpose, and a good one at that. I had a long talk with Brian @ FRORF a long time ago about this when he was trying to talk me into SAS'ing my 04 D-cab (back in 03, I might add). He runs a 2" body lift and 3" springs. It's a very good combination that I have run with good success as well in two previous trucks. Is spending $1K to re-do everything w/ the BL worth it, only to then spend more $$ on springs to get what, as the Captain said, you WANT???? No.

[Revivalist]

Hmm, very interesting post bkg. . . . What you say makes sense. And I'm not just saying that because it's "what I want to hear" but because your right that the combo of 3" springs and 2" BL has already been "tried and tested" as effective. . . . If I could go back and do it all over again, I would have removed my old BL and gone with higher springs. But it seems that the most reasonable solution at this point is to leave the BL and lower the springs. . .

Next week I'll visit Trail Gear and see if they are willing to swap my springs. Perhaps we can even put my rig back on the forklift and see how much clearance I have before the top of the tire hits the top of the fender. . . . I'm willing to trim the sides and firewall. :saw: . . . but I don't want to pull my splash guards and start attacking the whole fender. :eek: . . .

Hopefully I can drop my lift at least another 1" or 2. :cool:

[nomayota]

just saw TG post a reply on another forum saying they would swap anyones springs over for some hd springs for free

[Revivalist]

Wow! That's awesome. . . . Do you know where you saw that?

[CYi5]

So when do we see some trail pics or am i just missing them?

[Sisyphus]

Hmm, very interesting post bkg. . . . What you say makes sense. And I'm not just saying that because it's "what I want to hear" but because your right that the combo of 3" springs and 2" BL has already been "tried and tested" as effective. . . . If I could go back and do it all over again, I would have removed my old BL and gone with higher springs. But it seems that the most reasonable solution at this point is to leave the BL and lower the springs. . .

Next week I'll visit Trail Gear and see if they are willing to swap my springs. Perhaps we can even put my rig back on the forklift and see how much clearance I have before the top of the tire hits the top of the fender. . . . I'm willing to trim the sides and firewall. :saw: . . . but I don't want to pull my splash guards and start attacking the whole fender. :eek: . . .

Hopefully I can drop my lift at least another 1" or 2. :cool:

I have a crawler box clocked 20* with no BL. Really don't see the point of keeping it. You've been told by everyone on here but one person to ditch it, yet you still want to keep it...

[Revivalist]

So when do we see some trail pics or am i just missing them?There's some trail pics earlier in this post (http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showpost.php?p=626553&postcount=147), but they're not much. . . . I have a bunch of video clips that I need to put to together of the trail run. . . .

I have a crawler box clocked 20* with no BL. Really don't see the point of keeping it. You've been told by everyone on here but one person to ditch it, yet you still want to keep it...Believe me, if money were no object, I'd ditch the body lift immediately. . . . But it will cost about $1k (see this post (http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showpost.php?p=630080&postcount=166) for a list of all that would be involved.) . . . .

So my question was whether I could still have a well functioning rig with the BL still on, at least for now . . .. Lots of guys say remove it. . . . Other guys say don't bother . . . Some people like captkirkyota, bkg, and even Brian from Front Range have been running a 2" BL on rigs that evidently function just fine. . . . I spoke with AJ and he suggested that I leave it for now, replace the springs and just enjoy wheeling it for a while. He said if the BL is still bothering me later on then consider removing it. . . . For now it just doesn't seem worth all the money and hassle to remove it. . . . So that's pretty much the route I'll take for now. . . .

But I'm still thankful for this thread and all the guys who've chimed in, (including guys that strongly insist the BL should be removed) because it's stimulated some good tech discussion. It's all helped me to better understand how suspension, BLs, wheelin, and all that stuff works . . . .I've actually really enjoyed how different people have been able to state their different opinions and offer insight without resorting to foolish bickering as I've seen happen before over debates like this . . . .Hopefully this thread will be a good reference for guys in the future . . . . And maybe someone studying up for their own build will learn from my mistakes one day. . . .

[nomayota]

im pretty sure I saw that on there forum but I could be really wrong. Possibly the vendors section on pirate also

[Revivalist]

im pretty sure I saw that on there forum but I could be really wrong. Possibly the vendors section on pirate alsoHmmm . . . I looked in both places and didn't see that. . .

[ocdropzone]

:D I still want your truck!! :D

[arrowpilot]

Dude!

Cool truck!

[Revivalist]

Ok, Trail Gear is willing to hook me up with the heavy duty springs at their cost. It's certainly not free like nomayota mentioned they'd do, but it's better than the full price. I still have to pay labor too since I don't have the tools at home to do it. . . .

After that I'll have the firewall chopped and plated to clearance the front tires . . .

After all that, if there's enough clearance under the fenders, I'll drop the body lift. . . . Maybe I can visit AJ and have it done in a day. The only delay might be having the rear drive shaft shortened and rebalanced because the the t-case is probably gonna have to be dropped an inch or two. . . .

[Revivalist]

Well I got the new heavy duty Trail Gear springs on so I thought I would have fun ramping my truck. (AJ from bentup.com was kind enough to make the ramp so I could do some flexin at home . . . )

I was looking to do three things . . .

1. Check if I need to put bumpstops to protect the steering from hitting the leaf springs or oil pan. . . .

2. See how close the tires are to rubbing so I predict what will happen if I drop the 2” body lift . . .

3. Just have fun seeing my truck flexin’ in front of my house! :D

Ok, so here it goes . . .

Flexing the front. . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/04-Modified%20truck/03-SAS%20and%207in%20lift%20with%20armor/Myrig2.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/04-Modified%20truck/03-SAS%20and%207in%20lift%20with%20armor/Myrig3.jpg


I got about 33” from the ground to the bottom of the tire. The rear still didn’t lift yet. It would be nice to have a longer ramp to stop right when it does lift. . . . But I had the truck on a fork lift last week and I know the rear starts to lift at about 36”. . . .

I was happy to see that nothing was hitting even without bumpstops. . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/04-Modified%20truck/03-SAS%20and%207in%20lift%20with%20armor/Myrig7.jpg


The tie-rod and drag link are still a good 1-2” from hitting the springs. . . . And it looks like the front shock was getting close to full compression anyways. So if I were to go a little further I still don’t think anything would hit . . .

It looks like the rear springs are fully flattened in this position. But at least the shock is fully compressed before they start really reversing. . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/04-Modified%20truck/03-SAS%20and%207in%20lift%20with%20armor/Myrig8.jpg


As for the tires getting close to rubbing, here’s the front . . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/04-Modified%20truck/03-SAS%20and%207in%20lift%20with%20armor/Myrig9.jpg


It’s obvious that if I drop the body lift, then I’m gonna have to either chop at that splash guard or remove it . . . . The ARB bumper is also probably gonna have to be trimmed cuz it’s already pretty close. . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/04-Modified%20truck/03-SAS%20and%207in%20lift%20with%20armor/Myrig10.jpg


And now to flex the rear. . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/04-Modified%20truck/03-SAS%20and%207in%20lift%20with%20armor/Myrig4.jpg


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/04-Modified%20truck/03-SAS%20and%207in%20lift%20with%20armor/Myrig5.jpg


Again, it looks like nothing is hitting . . .


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/04-Modified%20truck/03-SAS%20and%207in%20lift%20with%20armor/Myrig11.jpg


So it seems to me at this point that bumpstops are optional because I don’t think I’m likely to hit the steering on the springs. Maybe it would be a good idea to put the little Trail Gear bumpstops back on just in case the truck comes down hard off a drop and flexes further than what I can achieve on a static ramp . . .

As for dropping the body lift, I definitely want to do it to lower the cog and gain more stability. But there’s obviously gonna have to be a lot of cutting to clear the tires. . . .

[Brain]

I'm not sure if it's the best thing for your shocks in the long run if you use them as bump stops...

Also, you might consider chopping your exhaust off. It's bound to get smashed on rocks:)

[Revivalist]

Hmm . . . Good point about the shocks. . . .Ok, I think I'll put the Trail Gear bumps back on then. . . .

Cut the exhaust . . . *gulp* . . . you mean my Magnaflow? :eek:

[4xClover]

Hmm . . . Good point about the shocks. . . .Ok, I think I'll put the Trail Gear bumps back on then. . . .

Cut the exhaust . . . *gulp* . . . you mean my Magnaflow? :eek:

First off...SWEET truck! :kewl:

Second - I agree that you should add some bumpstomps so the shocks don't have to perform double duty...one of which they are not made for! :)

Third - I think Brian is referring to just trimming your exhaust just after the Maganaflow/muffler b/c the pipe from there to the rear of your tire will catch some rocks.

Fourth - Did I tell you how nice your truck is! :D

[Brain]

Hmm . . . Good point about the shocks. . . .Ok, I think I'll put the Trail Gear bumps back on then. . . .

Cut the exhaust . . . *gulp* . . . you mean my Magnaflow? :eek:

It'll be Magnaflat once a rock hits it. I didn't mean the whole exhaust, just the tip.

[4xClover]

It'll be Magnaflat once a rock hits it. I didn't mean the whole exhaust, just the tip.

Hahahaha....beat you to it! :D

[FAUX X 4]

It'll be Magnaflat once a rock hits it. I didn't mean the whole exhaust, just the tip.

hahahaha..............Magnaflat!!! LOL :lmao:

[Captkirkyota]

Hmm . . . Good point about the shocks. . . .Ok, I think I'll put the Trail Gear bumps back on then. . . .

Cut the exhaust . . . *gulp* . . . you mean my Magnaflow? :eek:
Get bump stops on all 4 corners asap. You don't want your springs to negative arch like they are doing. You want the bump stop hit bottom when the springs are flat or not quite flat.
Wait till you see if your tippy/roll problem is solved before you go removing your BL. Also, as far as clearance is concerned, I am curious to know how far back from the center of the front bolt to the center pin your springs are, if they are less than the Alcans, that is a way to instantly move your axle forward if I were to guess 1 inch and *may* be enough to not need to cut so much if you do remove the BL, OR lower your truck enough with just the Alcans ( since they are 3 inch lift for a mini truck vs your 5 inch lift for mini truck ) and still not hit the fender.
Looks good, keep us informed.

[Revivalist]

Thanks for the input guys . . .

Ok, I guess the bumpstops are going back on. . . . I was hoping not to limit my uptravel that way but I guess it's better than putting the load on the compressed shocks. . .

How do you put bumpstops in the rear? Huge bumpstop extenders?

I forgot to mention that I put some 1" spacers in the rear to even it up with the front. So that should hopefully help a bit also with stability. . .

Tomorrow we'll hit Bald Mtn. again bright and early. I'm looking forward to seeing if the new springs and the spacers help with the tippyness . . .

[aztaco1]

cant you just drill the spring perch center hole an inch back to move your axle forward to keep from rubbing the flares.

[Captkirkyota]

cant you just drill the spring perch center hole an inch back to move your axle forward to keep from rubbing the flares.
If he has the room he can drill it one inch further to the rear to move the axle forward, yes. I personally think though that his springs are too high.

[Captkirkyota]

Thanks for the input guys . . .


How do you put bumpstops in the rear? Huge bumpstop extenders?


Yes, I've got some welded to the bottom of the frame that are 4 inches long and then have my bump stops mounted to the extenders.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/captkirkyota/temp/PB050043.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/captkirkyota/temp/P8080017.jpg

[Brain]

Thanks for the input guys . . .

Ok, I guess the bumpstops are going back on. . . . I was hoping not to limit my uptravel that way but I guess it's better than putting the load on the compressed shocks. . .

How do you put bumpstops in the rear? Huge bumpstop extenders?

I forgot to mention that I put some 1" spacers in the rear to even it up with the front. So that should hopefully help a bit also with stability. . .

Tomorrow we'll hit Bald Mtn. again bright and early. I'm looking forward to seeing if the new springs and the spacers help with the tippyness . . .

So you put a 1" lift in the rear to help with the tippyness? That doesn't make too much sense :confused:

[Brain]

Oh, nevermind. Wheel spacers, got it :)

[Revivalist]

Well, I actually already have the 4.5" bumpstops from Poly Performance because I was using them for a while until I swapped springs. (They were sort of "insurance" that I don't smash any stuff with the soft springs.) . . . I'll have to look into having them mounted in the back. . . . At least that will make good use of them. It's kind of funny, last night I was just regretting that I wasted $60 on them. I guess they still have a purpose. Cool. . .

By the way, are the bumpstops in that picture deteriorating or something?

[Captkirkyota]

Well, I actually already have the 4.5" bumpstops from Poly Performance because I was using them for a while until I swapped springs. (They were sort of "insurance" that I don't smash any stuff with the soft springs.) . . . I'll have to look into having them mounted in the back. . . . At least that will make good use of them. It's kind of funny, last night I was just regretting that I wasted $60 on them. I guess they still have a purpose. Cool. . .

By the way, are the bumpstops in that picture deteriorating or something?
Yes, I did not cut the u-bolts shorter for quite a while, so it dig into the stop.

[wslytoy]

damn this truck has come a long way...... looks AWESOME!

[Revivalist]

Thank you, Sir. Yeah, I wonder what the dealership would say if they saw the truck that they sold me just 5 months ago . . .

About the axle moving up . . . I don't think it's a possibility because of the steering. If the axle is any further forward, the drag link is gonna come down on the tie-rod under compression. . . . And AJ already put the steering box as far forward as possible. . . . I guess that's the limiting factor right there. . .

[Captkirkyota]

Thank you, Sir. Yeah, I wonder what the dealership would say if they saw the truck that they sold me just 5 months ago . . .

About the axle moving up . . . I don't think it's a possibility because of the steering. If the axle is any further forward, the drag link is gonna come down on the tie-rod under compression. . . . And AJ already put the steering box as far forward as possible. . . . I guess that's the limiting factor right there. . .

Shorter pitman arm.

[Rock Taco]

Or a scout box like mine.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h116/Hellbent71/SAC%20Conversion/SAC157.jpg

[Revivalist]

Shorter pitman arm.I'm not sure how much more clearance I would get for me to go through the trouble of swapping out the steering box . . . . As for the pitman arm, I kinda like how beefy this one is . . .

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-2ndDay2.jpg

[Captkirkyota]

I'm not sure how much more clearance I would get for me to go through the trouble of swapping out the steering box . . . . As for the pitman arm, I kinda like how beefy this one is . . .

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j160/Revivalist/06-My%20Truck/03-Working%20on%20the%20truck/WorkingwithAjatBentup-2ndDay2.jpg
There is why you can't move it farther forward, your steering box is tilted, mine is flat and that moves and allows everything else to move farther forward, you could prolly bring everything about 2 inches forward, then drop to the 3 inch springs and lower your truck without removing your BL and stuff fully without hitting the tub ......... just like my truck does.

[Captkirkyota]

Or a scout box like mine.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h116/Hellbent71/SAC%20Conversion/SAC157.jpg
Nice, hey do yourself a favor, see how the box does not sit flat against the frame, but has the bolt hole channels against it? PLATE the frame. I have seen one truck where those things have dimpled in the frame from the forces it produces, so plate it right there and be worry free of that one possibility.
Of course starting out with hydro-assist will drop those chances, but you've got it apart now, plate it while it is the best and easiest time to do. :)

[Dick Foster]

FYI Those would be called bosses, Kirk.

[Captkirkyota]

Cool, good to know. Thanks.FYI Those would be called bosses, Kirk.

[Brain]

There is why you can't move it farther forward, your steering box is tilted, mine is flat and that moves and allows everything else to move farther forward, you could prolly bring everything about 2 inches forward, then drop to the 3 inch springs and lower your truck without removing your BL and stuff fully without hitting the tub ......... just like my truck does.

Kirk, I believe he posted a picture of an older Toyota, not a Tacoma :) Older Toyotas are able to tilt their boxes more because of how the frame bends and where it bends. I think he was just posting a picture of the pitman arm for reference :)

[nomayota]

you should flex the rear of the truck so that you can see what kind of clearance you have at full stuff for the tierod and drag link and I would bet you that you have enough to move the axle another inch forward. it moves back alot when compressed

[Captkirkyota]

:doh: You are correct, I thought his frame looked a little different ,but did not give it too much consideration. I went back to his flex pics and his box is as far forward as it can go and flat. Good eye Daniel-son good eye! ;) Kirk, I believe he posted a picture of an older Toyota, not a Tacoma :) Older Toyotas are able to tilt their boxes more because of how the frame bends and where it bends. I think he was just posting a picture of the pitman arm for reference :)

[Rock Taco]

I am plating the frame its just there for mock up purposes for now. thanks though.