NUMMI Plant Tour

[TRD4ME / PARKSOFFROAD.COM]

I am going to be going on a tour of the NUMMI (New United Motor Manufaturing Inc.) where they make the Toyota Corolla, Toyota Tacoma and the Pontiac Vibe.

NUMMI began producing a truck, originally called the Hilux, in 1991. Four years later, the Hilux was redesigned and re-named the Tacoma. NUMMI now produces over 163,000 Tacomas a year.

NUMMI builds 17 models of the award-winning Tacoma, including a PreRunner Double Cab, 4x4 Double Cab, 4x2 Xtracab, PreRunner Xtracab, 4x4 Xtracab, S-Runner, 4x2 Regular Cab, PreRunner Regular Cab and 4x4 Regular Cab.

I will also be meeting with some of the production people, so I wanted to see if anyone had any questions that they wanted me to ask. Don't ask when we will see a solid axle, a diesel etc., I am looking for questions that are production related! Want to know how something is put together, how they do it etc., then post up your questions and I will try to get them answered.

I will be sure to get plenty of pictures!
-------------------------------------------------------------

Questions so far:
-Frame cracks - dont know if we will get an answer

-Rust durability on older vs. newer vehicles. what has changed to make newer ones less rust resistant?

-Why is the steering wheel in the tacoma not the same as the 4runner.

-when will toyota come out with a vehicle to compete with the rubicon? ( I know this is in the works, but we will see what they know )

-are there any plans to put a v8 in the tacoma?

-do they know the cause of the R&P failures on 05+ vehicles?

-where does the new car smell come from?

-the dash rattle problem: why not a simple fix at the factory vs. a TSB repair later?

[SP Jon M3]

Ask them why a couple of Tacoma's had motor mounts break at the frame welds? :confused:

http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49360

[Valkyrie]

That seems like a very timely inquiry. :)

[TRD4ME / PARKSOFFROAD.COM]

Ask them why a couple of Tacoma's had motor mounts break at the frame welds? :confused:

http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49360

While I dont get to read on the forums as much as I wish I could, I have seen the threads about this. I can certainly ask them, but I think we all know what the response will be! :rolleyes:

Maybe I can print out a few pics to show them!

[Sisyphus]

Ask them what they do for quality control. Seems like there have been a few issues that have slipped through the cracks.

Also ask them what they are going to create to compete with the Jeep Rubicon package, or are they giving up on the off-road enthusiast market? How about a 3.0 or 4.0:1 low range, front locker and upgraded skid plate package? (Especially fuel tank and front skids :eek: )

Also ask them if they could box the whole frame, like the Prado, especially the rear portions. I think those are some very real goals for Toyota to hit. Obviously we will never see the solid axle diesel, but we should get something better than just an electronic rear locker.

[justinh]

Ask them why a couple of Tacoma's had motor mounts break at the frame welds? :confused:

http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49360

I don't think they will be able to answer that since the frames aren't even built there or by them. It would be nice though. Unfortunately I doubt anyone in that factory even looks at the frames from a QC standpoint.

[deasley]

I have toured the NUMMI and the indiana plant and also the San Antonio plant aswell and unless you mount a very good spy cam somwhere on your person there will be no photos taken. everything about their manufactering processes are very top secret. you will find that the tour is great but there are many things they will not show you

[ocdropzone]

Definitely ask them about Chris's (sisyphus) questions. If you can print out some of the pictures of Cell4soul's frame and motor mount issues.
My question would be why they went to a worthless piece of plastic under the gas tank and are calling it a skid plate?
I am jeolous, that would be a cool experience.

Deasley is right about the pictures. I work for a large chip maker, your processor was probably made by it, easy one to guess if it is not AMD. Anyway due to process and intellectual property reasons, ISO compliance, you will more than likely not get a camera in. We have to submit a Camera pass request through security and have a very good reason to have any form of recording device in a production area. Very easy to get canned for it, all visitors must be escorted and 99% never see the fab where we actually make stuff.

Hopefully they are a little more flexible...Have a great time and post what you find out, hopefully you get straight answers and not the usually song and dance about they can't comment on any quality issues, my guess is you will hear they are not aware of it...

[deasley]

honestly it will be an experience you will never forget hopefully they will let you get close to the sheet metal stamps they weigh about 25 tons and it moves around pretty fast on one of the precision cranes operated by computer. also the painting area is something not to miss you have to change into a clean suit to go in there its fregin awsome. oh also in just about every area of the plant the robotic welders are running and though they are very pretty look at watch out for the molten embers flying they are not you normal welding embers. you will have to where a long sleeve shirt and a hard hat because of this if your not wereing one they give you these goofy pull on sleeves. oh and don't worry about the goofy disney jingles playing all around they will explain it to you on the head phones you were during the tour.

[hytenor]

While I dont get to read on the forums as much as I wish I could, I have seen the threads about this. I can certainly ask them, but I think we all know what the response will be! :rolleyes:

Maybe I can print out a few pics to show them!


O boy, I would hammer them with this issue! As for the frames being made off-site...bull shit! don't they LOOK at the damn things?? is their NO quality control??! Any idiot can look at those welds and be able to see they are crap, sheesh. Find someone at the upper end of the feeding chain and bring this up explaining that thousands of Toyota owners and potential owners are reading about this right now...and...will continue to because we won't drop this issue until Toyota step up and does the right thing.

8,600+ hits on that thread...so far...

Maybe the mag needs a "WTF, Toyota??" section.

[bradleyem]

You might also want to ask them about the transmission noises and problems from these threads:

http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49939

http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50607

[hytenor]

You might also want to ask them about the transmission noises and problems from these threads:

http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49939

http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50607

great idea.

and...the busted ring gears from the '05s...might be nice to hear what the actual cause was on those.

[TACODOC]

great idea.

and...the busted ring gears from the '05s...might be nice to hear what the actual cause was on those.

No shit! :confused:

[hytenor]

No shit! :confused:

I believe most all of them have been taken care of due to AllPro's winning of their arbitration. All anyone else has to do is refer to that case (get the # from Sarah) when dealing with your local DSM and that should be the end of it.

[TACODOC]

Mine was covered, I just wonder what the deal was? Bad steel? Bad process? Which MFG date vehicles have this problem to look forward to?

[TRD4ME / PARKSOFFROAD.COM]

I am guessing that these people are not mechanics, nor do they deal with warranty work much. They work their stations doing the same thing over and over again on the assembly line. The engines, transmissions and such most likely come to the plant assembled so I dont think they will be able to answer questions about noises or durablilty, same with the R&P questions.

I can ask how the frames are checked prior to use in regards to bad welds, you would think that would be a visual inspection item. Questions like what makes that "new car" smell, or why cant we get specific options without a package (such as a base truck with a locker and xyz gear ratio) would be questions they could answer.

[SP Jon M3]

Also ask them what they are going to create to compete with the Jeep Rubicon package, or are they giving up on the off-road enthusiast market? How about a 3.0 or 4.0:1 low range, front locker and upgraded skid plate package? (Especially fuel tank and front skids :eek: )
I don't think this is a question for the plant that builds the truck. That would be a question for the design/engineering group. The plant just receives the "blueprints" from Toyota and then builds the vehicle for them.

Also ask them if they could box the whole frame, like the Prado, especially the rear portions. I think those are some very real goals for Toyota to hit. Obviously we will never see the solid axle diesel, but we should get something better than just an electronic rear locker.
Well, both the FJC and the 4R have fully boxed frames. Only the Tacoma has the prado derived frame which is partial boxed, then C-channel. And I'm not trying to argue with you, I too wish the Tacoma had a fully boxed frame.

[jbstrd]

Not sure if this would be a question for them but, "Will we ever see a V8 Tacoma?"

Jason

[equin]

I don't think this is a question for the plant that builds the truck. That would be a question for the design/engineering group. The plant just receives the "blueprints" from Toyota and then builds the vehicle for them.


Well, both the FJC and the 4R have fully boxed frames. Only the Tacoma has the prado derived frame which is partial boxed, then C-channel. And I'm not trying to argue with you, I too wish the Tacoma had a fully boxed frame.

Or if not a fully boxed frame, at least a much stronger c-channel frame. The older FJ40's are strong, thick c-channel, as are the 80-96 F150/Broncos.

[hytenor]

Or if not a fully boxed frame, at least a much stronger c-channel frame. The older FJ40's are strong, thick c-channel, as are the 80-96 F150/Broncos.

the mid C channel portoin of the frame is very strong, 3/16" hi-grade steel...it's the nose-end boxed portion that is the same basic thing the early Tacos have.

[Gadget]

Maybe ask why my 96 4Runner with 170,000 miles on it, driven in the MD snow with salted roads, and off roaded regularly, has way less corrosion and rust then my 2 year old Tacoma that is never driven in the snow or off roaded??????

The plating on all the fasteners is a much less quality then the 96 4Runner, and most of them are rusting. Why?

All the points under the hood where the grounding straps bolt are all corroaded. Why?

There is a lot of rust on the frame, mostly in the C channel area on the inside and where the seam is. There is a huge rust area on the frame on the passenger side under the strut tower mount. Lots of rust on the forward section of the suspension on the passenger side. Why?

Lastly, the steering wheel. Both my 4Runners the steering wheel is perfectly round. The Tacoma is anything but round. I know that is a small thing, but it damn sure bugs me. Why?

Other then those few things, and the crappy tranny, brittle chipping paint, squeeky leaf springs, I love the truck. Really it is a nice truck, but the quality clearly is not like it was on my 96 4Runner.

[ryguy]

question for you guys.. but isnt this just the manufacturing plant not R&D. They just put the stuff togethor, they dont trouble shoot. Just wondering, Cause I dont think they have anything to do with what Toyota wants. Toyota tells them to make this widget and then they do. I would love to have the reasons why things arent done properly.. Bla!

[Gadget]

question for you guys.. but isnt this just the manufacturing plant not R&D. They just put the stuff togethor, they dont trouble shoot. Just wondering, Cause I dont think they have anything to do with what Toyota wants. Toyota tells them to make this widget and then they do. I would love to have the reasons why things arent done properly.. Bla!

Yep, you are right.

They may want to know about this frame problem so they can tell their quality control folks to sniff that over as the frames come in the door so they don't put a bad one on the road.

[TRD4ME / PARKSOFFROAD.COM]

Maybe ask why my 96 4Runner with 170,000 miles on it, driven in the MD snow with salted roads, and off roaded regularly, has way less corrosion and rust then my 2 year old Tacoma that is never driven in the snow or off roaded??????

The plating on all the fasteners is a much less quality then the 96 4Runner, and most of them are rusting. Why?

All the points under the hood where the grounding straps bolt are all corroaded. Why?

There is a lot of rust on the frame, mostly in the C channel area on the inside and where the seam is. There is a huge rust area on the frame on the passenger side under the strut tower mount. Lots of rust on the forward section of the suspension on the passenger side. Why?

Lastly, the steering wheel. Both my 4Runners the steering wheel is perfectly round. The Tacoma is anything but round. I know that is a small thing, but it damn sure bugs me. Why?

Other then those few things, and the crappy tranny, brittle chipping paint, squeeky leaf springs, I love the truck. Really it is a nice truck, but the quality clearly is not like it was on my 96 4Runner.

Yes, I can ask them about the rust resistance of newer vs older trucks. I can also sky why they use a different steering wheel, they may know, but it may be just what they are told to use!

[dylanscott]

Ask why the stinkin dash rattle?! You'd think they'd have that one figured out by now anyway.

[ryguy]

Yep, you are right.

They may want to know about this frame problem so they can tell their quality control folks to sniff that over as the frames come in the door so they don't put a bad one on the road.
ooo that would be great!! I need that since Im going to start racing my truck! Stock class here I come!

[91toyota4x4]

Man after reading this thread I am glad my truck was made in Japan.

[Valkyrie]

meh, don't make it worse than it really is... beside, Japan is responsible for the 3.slow you have, so I guess no one is perfect. ;)

[ARB1977]

Maybe ask why my 96 4Runner with 170,000 miles on it, driven in the MD snow with salted roads, and off roaded regularly, has way less corrosion and rust then my 2 year old Tacoma that is never driven in the snow or off roaded??????

The plating on all the fasteners is a much less quality then the 96 4Runner, and most of them are rusting. Why?

All the points under the hood where the grounding straps bolt are all corroaded. Why?

There is a lot of rust on the frame, mostly in the C channel area on the inside and where the seam is. There is a huge rust area on the frame on the passenger side under the strut tower mount. Lots of rust on the forward section of the suspension on the passenger side. Why?

Lastly, the steering wheel. Both my 4Runners the steering wheel is perfectly round. The Tacoma is anything but round. I know that is a small thing, but it damn sure bugs me. Why?

Other then those few things, and the crappy tranny, brittle chipping paint, squeeky leaf springs, I love the truck. Really it is a nice truck, but the quality clearly is not like it was on my 96 4Runner.
Old school is just better.

[91toyota4x4]

meh, don't make it worse than it really is... beside, Japan is responsible for the 3.slow you have, so I guess no one is perfect. ;)

I'll take the 3.0 over cracked, rusty frames and trashed gears any day!

[Sisyphus]

Man after reading this thread I am glad my truck was made in Japan.
http://www.tacomaterritory.com/~paulw/misc/cookie.jpg?

[mrbigbri]

or are they giving up on the off-road enthusiast market?

It's called the FJ-Cruiser.

Brian

[Valkyrie]

I'll take the 3.0 over cracked, rusty frames and trashed gears any day!
Well, before you dislocate your shoulder patting yourself on the back for selecting what is obviously (to you) the finest built vehicle Toyota ever built, you should know that 2nd gen frames are prone to failure in higher than average numbers, not to mention the substandard steering linkages.

IMO, 3rd gen and 4th gen 4Runners were much better built overall than 1st and 2nd gen's.

No that we're past the "mine is better than anyone's" crap, objectively it's been my experience that Toyota's quality has not kept up to it's legendary status. of course, that status was originated from the powertrains that, although underpowered by US standards, proved themselves virtually bulletproof.

Toyota fit and finish quality is better than is ever has been since they began importing them. The issues that seem most troublesome are the continuous strutural issues that actually seemed to start in the late 80's and early 90's and resurface time and again, like the current frame weld discussion.

Unfortunately, I doubt any answers lie at NUMMI, or if they do, they won't be discussed to any degree of satisfaction. :(

[Dick Foster]

I don't know about the later models but I think the 1st gen Tacoma frame was supplied by Dana (yeah the same Dana) out of Sacramento.

[Dick Foster]

Yeah the FJC is a confirming indicator that indeed they have given up the off road market. They have been headed in that direction for a while now too. It's been a downhill slide since 85 at least.

[Dick Foster]

If thats true, I'm bout the best sombitch here because I'm one of the oldest around. LOL

[Dick Foster]

My guess is bad or improperly installed crush collars. I hate those damn things.

[Valkyrie]

I don't know about the later models but I think the 1st gen Tacoma frame was supplied by Dana (yeah the same Dana) out of Sacramento.
I've heard that too, along with the 3rd gen 4Runners... can't vouch for the validity, but it would make sense out of some things.

I suspect it's hooey, especially the 4R part.

[Dick Foster]

Nummi didn't assemble Runners so who knows. Maybe another Dana plant though. All of the tier one suppliers have plants all over the globe. What with no inventory to speak of you can almost figure out who's supplying what based on plant locations. Then you have all of those wierd relationships like Hella supplying Bosh (a competitor) parts in a Hella box because they have a great distribution network. The automotive industry sure has its quirks.

[Super Doody]

I am going to be going on a tour of the NUMMI (New United Motor Manufaturing Inc.) where they make the Toyota Corolla, Toyota Tacoma and the Pontiac Vibe.



I will also be meeting with some of the production people, so I wanted to see if anyone had any questions that they wanted me to ask. Don't ask when we will see a solid axle, a diesel etc., I am looking for questions that are production related! Want to know how something is put together, how they do it etc., then post up your questions and I will try to get them answered.

I will be sure to get plenty of pictures!
-------------------------------------------------------------

Questions so far:
-Frame cracks - dont know if we will get an answer

-Rust durability on older vs. newer vehicles. what has changed to make newer ones less rust resistant?

-Why is the steering wheel in the tacoma not the same as the 4runner.

-when will toyota come out with a vehicle to compete with the rubicon? ( I know this is in the works, but we will see what they know )

-are there any plans to put a v8 in the tacoma?

-do they know the cause of the R&P failures on 05+ vehicles?

-where does the new car smell come from?

-the dash rattle problem: why not a simple fix at the factory vs. a TSB repair later?


I hope you guys know that Nummi is not really toyota. NUMMI does the assembly not the engineering. They do give feed back to toyota based on dealers input so if here is problem they can figure out if its assembly problem, manufacturing or design. Just FYI. Go ahead ask the questions. I know quite a few people that work there.

[Super Doody]

great idea.

and...the busted ring gears from the '05s...might be nice to hear what the actual cause was on those.


I know for a fact nummi knows about the this issue because a lot nummi empolyee also own tacomas. During a test on a empolyee vehicle, the diff exploded.

[Dick Foster]

We know. NUMMI is a seperate company and is a joint venture between GM and Toyota.

[Super Doody]

We know. NUMMI is a seperate company and is a joint venture between GM and Toyota.

Just a general commet based on number of questions being ask. And of course I know that Da Dick knows every :D

[Valkyrie]

Nummi didn't assemble Runners so who knows. Maybe another Dana plant though. All of the tier one suppliers have plants all over the globe. What with no inventory to speak of you can almost figure out who's supplying what based on plant locations. Then you have all of those wierd relationships like Hella supplying Bosh (a competitor) parts in a Hella box because they have a great distribution network. The automotive industry sure has its quirks.
That might be a possibility if Dana had a plant in Japan, but considering how tight they are about things like that, I kind of doubt it.

[Dick Foster]

Its just one of the hazards from screwing around in that industry I guess. In many ways its pretty wacky in others its not.
How they make that zero inventory thing work is amazing to me but they all do it. I do know its death to the vendor responsible for shutting down a line. Oh my how the fur flies when that happens.
Talk about your cruel and unusual punishment. Saddam Hussein or Adolf Hitler has nothing on the automotive industry.

[hytenor]

I know for a fact nummi knows about the this issue because a lot nummi empolyee also own tacomas. During a test on a empolyee vehicle, the diff exploded.

Oh, I know they knew about it ;) It would still be nice to get some sort of official word as to the cause.

[teamblend]

for those of you that cant take a tour yourself.. here is a cool cyber tour that was done

could be a repost.. sorry if it is

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=105515#

[fast frank]

OK, so I did a little dectective work.

In that online tour, they mention that the frame comes from Stockton, California.

So I went to Google and typed in "Dana Stockton".

And this is what I got: Google Results (http://www.industryweek.com/research/bestplants/bp_profiles.asp?Input=135)

"Today, eight years and well over a million units later, Dana's Stockton, Calif., plant still produces one product for one customer: frames for the Toyota Tacoma pickup truck."

I guess that settles the frame questions.

[SP Jon M3]

Interesting. They are listed as being Non-Union workers.

[bradleyem]

Did you notice that there is a name, e-mail address and phone number for Gary Duke, the production manager for Dana? Maybe someone should send him an e-mail with pictures of the defective welds and see if they get a response. They also talk about having problems with off target welds in the past (a problem that was supposedly fixed in 2001).

[ocdropzone]

for those of you that cant take a tour yourself.. here is a cool cyber tour that was done

could be a repost.. sorry if it is

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=105515#

That was a cool link..tHANKS!

[hytenor]

Did you notice that there is a name, e-mail address and phone number for Gary Duke, the production manager for Dana? Maybe someone should send him an e-mail with pictures of the defective welds and see if they get a response. They also talk about having problems with off target welds in the past (a problem that was supposedly fixed in 2001).

An excellent suggestion.

[TRD4ME / PARKSOFFROAD.COM]

Maybe I need to go on a tour of the Dana plant next. I am guessing there would be a few questions..... :rolleyes:

[hytenor]

Maybe I need to go on a tour of the Dana plant next. I am guessing there would be a few questions..... :rolleyes:

O, I think a simple call and link to this the frame crack thread will speak volumes :rolleyes:

[EMPIRE]

all this Dana reference. is this "Dana Corp." you guys are talking about? perhaps this has something to do with the issue http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/03/business/main1367076.shtml

[Dick Foster]

The very same.

[Doss]

I am going to be going on a tour of the NUMMI (New United Motor Manufaturing Inc.) where they make the Toyota Corolla, Toyota Tacoma and the Pontiac Vibe.



I will also be meeting with some of the production people, so I wanted to see if anyone had any questions that they wanted me to ask. Don't ask when we will see a solid axle, a diesel etc., I am looking for questions that are production related! Want to know how something is put together, how they do it etc., then post up your questions and I will try to get them answered.

I will be sure to get plenty of pictures!
-------------------------------------------------------------

Questions so far:
-Frame cracks - dont know if we will get an answer

-Rust durability on older vs. newer vehicles. what has changed to make newer ones less rust resistant?

-Why is the steering wheel in the tacoma not the same as the 4runner.

-when will toyota come out with a vehicle to compete with the rubicon? ( I know this is in the works, but we will see what they know )

-are there any plans to put a v8 in the tacoma?

-do they know the cause of the R&P failures on 05+ vehicles?

-where does the new car smell come from?

-the dash rattle problem: why not a simple fix at the factory vs. a TSB repair later?



I took that tour last year. I like the part where they drive the trucks on the dyno and test the abs. Have fun with the safety video at the entrance. And try to snag one of their cool hard hats that looks like a regular baseball cap. :)

Oh yeah and ask them again for me why the hell they didn't put a cargo light on the Taco. If you meet a short guy named Walter tell him Josh says hi.

have fun.

[flyingwil]

Ask them if they have heard any rumors of a diesel power-plant for any of the units, if you could please. With the new diesel JK Wrangler coming and Toyota's recent venture in buying Isuzu Motors Ltd.

Toyota Buys a Way into Diesels
Automotive News

TOKYO -- In late July, Katsuaki Watanabe picked up the phone. For the second time in nine months, the Toyota Motor Corp. president was ready to open his wallet and buy his way out of a problem.

In October 2005 he had purchased an 8.7 percent stake in Subaru-maker Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. from General Motors for about $315 million. Toyota plans to use the Subaru plant in Indiana to build Camry cars.

This time he called Yoshinori Ida, the president of Isuzu Motors Ltd. His proposal: Combine forces on diesel engines and alternative drivetrains.

"I was really surprised" and "puzzled" by the call, Ida says. Toyota rarely pursues other automakers' technology. But the more Ida thought about it, the more it made sense. Toyota desperately needed what Isuzu had: diesel expertise and diesel-manufacturing capacity.

Watanabe's call to Ida has paid off. Toyota has purchased 5.6 percent of Isuzu. For approximately $375 million, Toyota now has access to Isuzu's army of more than 800 experienced diesel engineers. These same engineers developed GM's successful Duramax diesel engine for light trucks in the United States.

Wanted: Diesel Expertise

The timing of the call was the result of Isuzu's availability and Watanabe's growing awareness of Toyota's shortfall in diesel expertise.

In April, GM had sold its final 7.9 percent of Isuzu to raise about $300 million, after having held partial ownership of Isuzu since 1971.

"We think we need to strengthen our diesel capabilities," Watanabe says. "We anticipate the growth of diesel engines going forward."

Several events led him to that conclusion.

Despite Toyota's efforts to promote hybrids, Europe remained unconvinced. European buyers prefer diesels, which offer improved fuel economy at lower cost than hybrids.

Diesel's share there has been climbing for years. In the first eight months of 2006, diesel engines powered more than half of all passenger vehicles sold in Europe.

Toyota's diesel offerings are adequate in Europe. But the automaker is not in the forefront of clean diesel technology.

At this spring's Geneva auto show, several European carmakers started talking seriously about diesel hybrids.

A few weeks later, Toyota launched its hybrid-powered Lexus GS 450h in Japan. Masatami Takimoto, executive vice president for powertrain r&d, was primed to brag about the hybrid powertrain's extra performance.

Instead, Japanese reporters began grilling him about Toyota's plans for a diesel hybrid. Takimoto responded like a deer in headlights. Hybrids use one or more electric motors and an internal combustion engine to power the wheels.

Flanked by Honda

In May, rival Honda Motor Co. flanked Toyota on diesels. Honda promised to sell a diesel-engine car clean enough to meet gasoline-engine emissions levels in North America and Japan within three years. Watanabe was left mumbling that Toyota is working on clean diesel engines, too, but isn't ready to say when the engines will come to market.

Toyota and Isuzu negotiated for three months. To cement their relationship, Toyota was willing to buy a stake in Isuzu. Toyota didn't have a specific number of shares in mind, says Watanabe, when it began talking to Isuzu's largest shareholders.

By Nov. 3, the two companies were ready to unveil the broad outline of their deal.

The two companies plan to combine their diesel and alternative drivetrain efforts.

"Isuzu's diesel engines will now be mounted on Toyota cars," Ida says. He won't say which cars, or which markets, will get the engines. That will be decided later, he says.

The two companies will study the following areas for possible collaboration:

R&d, and then production, of small diesel engines, led by Isuzu.
Joint r&d of emissions control technologies and devices for diesels, led by Isuzu.

Environmental technology, including that related to engines and alternative fuels, led by Toyota.

Diesel Hybrid?

While the deal addresses Toyota's diesel shortcomings in the near term, it also positions Toyota to reclaim the green mantle from clean-diesel leaders. Says Watanabe, "In the future we may come up with a diesel hybrid as well."

Toyota will buy 100 million shares of Isuzu stock for about $375.0 million from trading houses Mitsubishi Corp. and Itochu Corp. The stock purchase was to have been completed Friday, Nov. 10.

Toyota certainly can afford it. In the six months ended Sept. 30, its operating profits rose 35.1 percent to $9.27 billion. Indeed, according to Takeshi Suzuki, Toyota's senior managing director for finance, one of the company's challenges is finding ways to return more profits to shareholders.

After the purchase, Isuzu's largest shareholders will be Mitsubishi Corp. with 9.7 percent of the stock, Itochu with 7.2 percent and Toyota with 5.9 percent.

[teamblend]

good article!

[Super Doody]

diesels and diesel hybrids are not going to take off as an answer to decrease oil comsuption and decrease in heat trapping gases. It takes more oil to make diesel and it had worse emission standards that gasoline..this data comes from Departmetn of Energy.

[hytenor]

diesels and diesel hybrids are not going to take off as an answer to decrease oil comsuption and decrease in heat trapping gases. It takes more oil to make diesel and it had worse emission standards that gasoline..this data comes from Departmetn of Energy.

true but there currently is NO practical technology that can replace the internal combustion engine for at least 20yrs and people had better get used to that fact. Check out the article on all of the varrious "alternatives" that are either being developed or are already being used in the latest Road and Track...very interesting. In the mean time we still need oil...of which there is plenty.

[Super Doody]

true but there currently is NO practical technology that can replace the internal combustion engine for at least 20yrs and people had better get used to that fact. Check out the article on all of the varrious "alternatives" that are either being developed or are already being used in the latest Road and Track...very interesting. In the mean time we still need oil...of which there is plenty.

Compress Natural Gas and Veggie Fuel are 3 sources of clean fuel for ICE. Plug in hybrids (~100 mpg) is another option but still need fuel. We have huge fleet department at work. We been testing alternative fuel sources for the past ~10 years. So I get to hear about this stuff.

[hytenor]

Compress Natural Gas and Veggie Fuel are 3 sources of clean fuel for ICE. Plug in hybrids (~100 mpg) is another option but still need fuel. We have huge fleet department at work. We been testing alternative fuel sources for the past ~10 years. So I get to hear about this stuff.

hybrids still have the problem of what to do with the batteries.
electric cars run on, duh..electricity and where does that come from? for the most part, in this country, coal and oil fired plants. and, so far they have an extremely short range...oh and those damn batteries again...
natural gas? a posibility for a small percentage of cars
veggie fuel? are you kidding? dude, if you are in the biz you should know better. All the farms in the country couldn't produce enough plant matter to supply the need. Oh, and lets talk about the amount of energy required to even make the stuff if corn is used :rolleyes:
hydrogen? maybe but we are a long way from having a viable system to use and the needed infrastructure is even farther off.

but, keep up the research cuz we'll need something better eventually!

[Super Doody]

hybrids still have the problem of what to do with the batteries.
electric cars run on, duh..electricity and where does that come from? for the most part, in this country, coal and oil fired plants. and, so far they have an extremely short range...oh and those damn batteries again...!

Whats wrong with their batteries ? But Plug in hybrides are in still in the begining stages. The prototype batteries are little bulky right now. The idea is charging your car in the garage at night when the demand on the grid is the least. Its about 1.50$ per gal (gasoline equivalent)

In northern california the carbon foot print for PG&E is very low when compared with other utilities. More and more of pg&e power portfolio is cleaner with power coming from wind, hydro, geothermal and nuclear. You seen the comercials.



natural gas? a posibility for a small percentage of cars
veggie fuel? are you kidding? dude, if you are in the biz you should know better. All the farms in the country couldn't produce enough plant matter to supply the need. Oh, and lets talk about the amount of energy required to even make the stuff if corn is used :rolleyes:
hydrogen? maybe but we are a long way from having a viable system to use and the needed infrastructure is even farther off.

but, keep up the research cuz we'll need something better eventually!

Natural gas is very very practical. The only problem is the range. It about 100 mile less than that of gasoline vehicles. You can install a larger tank but it would take up more space in the truck/bed. There are stations all over state or you can have your very own, low pressure system at home which hooks up to the same gas line you would use for home appliances:

http://automobiles.honda.com/models/civic_gx_phill.asp?ModelName=Civic+GX

I believe the gasonline gallon equivalent for CNG is about 1.50$ per gallon.

In terms of veggie oil. I menat used veggie old...like ones that come from fryers in fast food places. But this only for diesels.


I'm not saying that these are end all solutions but we do have some choices...even if they are so what inconvenient

[BigBadBob0]

I think one of the most fascinating things about toyota is the "toyota production system." Apparently this has been generalized into something called "Lean manufacturing" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lean_manufacturing.

I'd ask them what they think of TPS. How does it help them maintain their quality (it's a whole lot better than people in this thread indicate)? How does it help them stay increasingly more productive?

How excited are they at becoming the market share leader?

[BigBadBob0]

hybrids still have the problem of what to do with the batteries.
electric cars run on, duh..electricity and where does that come from? for the most part, in this country, coal and oil fired plants. and, so far they have an extremely short range...oh and those damn batteries again...



The interesting thing here is that battery technology has come a long way. Peter should ask the NUMMI guys how many batteries from the Prius and other hybrids they've seen come back? I believe, and this may not be true, that the number of dead batteries from the older Prius models is incredibly low.

As for the root power source for a plug-in vehicle, at least in CA, the vast majority of our power is actually clean. In this case the number of fossil fuels and in turn the amount of greenhouse gas being released is quite low "per mile." (http://www.energy.ca.gov/html/energysources.html)

[Dick Foster]

The folks at the NUMMI plant wouldn't have a clue about anything Prius. They are an independent assembly plant and not really even a wholly owned subsidiary of Toyota.

[teamblend]

yea nor cal nummi only makes the tacoma, the corolla, and the vibe

[gahunter]

Talk to them about the weak tailgate. Check other sites where tailgates have failed under loads and easy denting. The apparent problem seems to be that the metal and the composite material doesn't have a good structural bond or brace system.

[cell4soul]

I too had my tailgate bend down the center from loading a motorcycle into the bed, so I know first hand that it needs improvement. Unlike my motor mount problem, I was able to get Toyota to replace the tailgate, they only said they would not replace it if it happened again.....in other words, don't carry your motorcylce with your Toyota.

[Valkyrie]

In other words, pull the tailgate and load to the bed.

[TRD83]

Its unfortunate to check back on the forum and catch another thread turn into a "problems the new tacomas are having" rant session.

A lot of great things happening here though it looks like, from All-Pro winning their case to tracking down this fella from Dana.

And while diesel may not seem like the wave of the future to some of you, I will say that my 2004 4x4 Crew Cab F-250 w/ 6.0L Turbo Diesel gets better highway miles than my Lemon 05 Tacoma did.

Hopefully these are all just "isolated incidents," as I was personally assured such by a district representative when my truck was repurchased.

[ah64id]

I want to know why the 3.0 I4 D4D isnt an option.. the friggin 4.0 V6 is a hilux option.....

There are quite a few of the new hiluxs here with the D4D... havent inspected to closely yet... but the suspension looks to be tacoma...

[hytenor]

Its unfortunate to check back on the forum and catch another thread turn into a "problems the new tacomas are having" rant session.

A lot of great things happening here though it looks like, from All-Pro winning their case to tracking down this fella from Dana.

And while diesel may not seem like the wave of the future to some of you, I will say that my 2004 4x4 Crew Cab F-250 w/ 6.0L Turbo Diesel gets better highway miles than my Lemon 05 Tacoma did.

Hopefully these are all just "isolated incidents," as I was personally assured such by a district representative when my truck was repurchased.

hell, the 7.3 gets better hwy mileage than my 2.7, LOL

[TRD4ME / PARKSOFFROAD.COM]

Went on the tour yesterday.... incredible setup. The public tour is actually quite good, I would highly recommend it if you have the chance to do it. I will have more info later!

[TRD4ME / PARKSOFFROAD.COM]

.... unless you mount a very good spy cam somwhere on your person there will be no photos taken. everything about their manufactering processes are very top secret.

I did the public tour, then after doing an great interview with some key people was allowed to roam the assembly line on foot and take pictures. I was there for much longer than I expected, I spent almost 5 hours there.

[yota06taco]

I think one of the most fascinating things about toyota is the "toyota production system." Apparently this has been generalized into something called "Lean manufacturing" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lean_manufacturing.

I'd ask them what they think of TPS. How does it help them maintain their quality (it's a whole lot better than people in this thread indicate)? How does it help them stay increasingly more productive?

How excited are they at becoming the market share leader?
TPS is actually a fascinating development in the whole production and supply chain system. Most people would think its limited to just doing things better the next time around or making sure a part is cleaned/installed correctly/works correctly. While this is true, its only the very beginning or what we think of as the normal QC under TPS.
It starts with management direction and the empowerment of the front line workers to contribute to problem resolution and process improvement. The most common buzzword is "kaizen" which in Japanese means "continuous improvement". Front line workers are not only trained but encouraged to stop the production line if they spot a problem or a part is missing. Take for instance the poor welds on the frame or a misaligned body panel. The line worker would hit an alarm to stop production and they immediately begin tracing the root cause of why something went wrong. They determine if it was something as simple as a bad bolt or a complete process (i.e. welding, stamping,etc) that needs correction. Unless the problem is fixed, they don't build another truck and risk the quality error. In the traditional production lines we are accustomed to, production line stoppages are a cardinal sin since it is believed to cost $$ and interupt the production schedule. Toyota prides itself on the cross-grain convention of doing things right the first time, every time. They engineer in time cushions as well as the overall cataloging of parts that go into one vehicle as some of you may have seen in the NUMMI tour that was posted (that was awesome by the way. The birth of a Taco...I cried a little it was so beautiful). It all boils down to the use of production planning and use of automation. Not easy stuff but they have nearly perfected it.
The other side of all this is what many people do not think about which is the integration of its suppliers into the whole production supply chain. Essentially, Toyota not only contracts independent suppliers for parts but also teaches those suppliers how to ensure good QC. Toyota people more or less act as consultants to its suppliers to help them improve their quality and ways of doing business to gain more efficiencies. For those who looked at the NUMMI tour, you can see they have parts arrive from suppliers in the matter of HOURS. This is an example of Toyota working with its suppliers to ensure they have the parts when they need them. Some suppliers might not like the idea of having a customer completely dictate their ways of doing things but the contracts are very lucrative from what i understand and the fact Toyota is helping them gain efficiencies in their manufacturing processes is pretty tempting too. Plus Toyota has the power to just move on to the next guy in line waiting to supply it with parts.
To make a long story short and offer some insight into how they ensure quality, TPS is not only a far reaching methodology through the ENTIRE supply chain: suppliers, factory, people, dealers, etc.... its become the culture of Toyota to be better than even themselves year in and year out.

This is just quickly what I know about TPS but it would still be really interesting to hear from the NUMMI people what they think of TPS.

We simply get the end result of our bulletproof rides....