45 days until LW,OD & AA are CLOSED

[FAUX X 4]

http://www.virtualjeepclub.com/showthread.php?p=145600&posted=1#post145600

[Heatstroke]

For those who don't know what that means....LOWER WOOD PECKER, Overdose, and Axle Alley are ALL SLATED TO BE CLOSED!!!

Let's see how much involvement there is now. I doubt it will be any different than any other time for any other thing. Those who have run those will say; Oh well, at least I got to run them. Others who haven't got the chance will say; Oh well, my truck couldn't make it any way. But it's what our society is coming to and the mentality transfers over to the recreation we enjoy. It's sad, but it seems people will only help or participate if they can get some sort of reward or win something. Totally LAME!

It will be a sad day when the whole area is closed off and we are stuck in a stupid off road park and have to pay $25 or more everytime we want to use it.

[Fish Taco]

Why are they closing them? Are they closing any other tails in that area???

[TBob]

Yea I got that and read Sandies post but didn't understand what it is we need to do to prevent that if that is at all possible.

For those who don't know what that means....LOWER WOOD PECKER, Overdose, and Axle Alley are ALL SLATED TO BE CLOSED!!!

Let's see how much involvement there is now. I doubt it will be any different than any other time for any other thing. Those who have run those will say; Oh well, at least I got to run them. Others who haven't got the chance will say; Oh well, my truck couldn't make it any way. But it's what our society is coming to and the mentality transfers over to the recreation we enjoy. It's sad, but it seems people will only help or participate if they can get some sort of reward or win something. Totally LAME!

It will be a sad day when the whole area is closed off and we are stuck in a stupid off road park and have to pay $25 or more everytime we want to use it.

[FAUX X 4]

"after taking a close look at Francisco's map you might be interested in something he's taken into his own hands and that is Lower Woodpecker; OverDose and some small trail near Axle Alley (???).... or maybe Axle Alley itself, is ALREADY DESIGNATED CLOSED !!!

He CANNOT do this without public input and NEPA reasons to close. I will follow up on this today but most likely this will take many, many letters to fight this. The entire inventoried trail system has been "evaluated". All trails have identified cultural, enviro, habitat, use patterns, mitigation needed etc........... If you notice half the trails noted on this map are identified in blue noting "additional analysis needed" BS.

Couldn't reach Francisco this morning. Didn't reach the field manager nor the OHV Coordinator from the State Office. You'd think this was a holiday Friday !!!!! More as I get it. Hopefully everyone will see what we're out to lose. Almost every one of our "trails" are identified in RED or BLUE"

[Heatstroke]

They are closing said areas due to asshats abusing them. Grafiti, trash, destroying historical aspects, destroying wildlife habitat, etc etc. There is a guy in the Tucson office of land management who is pro greenie and he is doing his damnedest to get everything shut down. He is using tactics that are quite questionable and some are under review. He is doing them anyway because he knows it will be harder to overturn his decisions than it will be for him to do it the right way. The situation appears to be following paths that have been successful in other states for getting vehicle recreation areas closed.

[4xClover]

I just read the thread over on VJC and it doesn't look like we even have a choice with this. Looks like they have already made up their mind.

If there is something we can do (meetings, letter or both) we ALL need to get involved and do what we can!!

We cannot sit idle and watch all the trails be closed and then bitch about it when it happens if we didn't do anything. We ALL need to help!!

[grumpy]

Yea I got that and read Sandies post but didn't understand what it is we need to do to prevent that if that is at all possible.

nothing can be done ;( especially as long as, we (the users-offroaders, etc) band together to fight this crap.

like stroke said once closed it'll take an act of G-d to get reopened. even if closed by illegial means.

anybody want to buy a SAS taco???

[AZrockbum]

We really need someone who can file an injunction to prevent the closures and fight it out in court. If thye are closing it illegally then that would seem to be the best shot. Letters will take to long and likely be ineffective.

[GOT COPE?]

post this on the NB in the Land Use Folder http://www.ttora.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=27

Ill send a letter as soon as you provide an addy.

Post on www.pirate4x4.com/forum as well

[WARTOY]

when sending letters in the past, did you all send them via e-mail, or by mail? and if so, which would be more effective? any input on this would be appreciated, as i am very interested in helping out anyway i can. even if i don't live in az anymore. thanks.

[FAUX X 4]

At the moment it appears as though we are all in limbo on this issue as posted on AZVJC:
"It wasnt clear that any action was called for in the first message other than to be at the meetings, so, what reply was required when one is in wait mode?
I see now that we're supposed to mail or email Francisco to become involved, maybe. I will happily go and dig out his contact details and send a note requesting to be included, but I am betting there would be more resounding support if the contact infoirmation and suggested wording was put right in front of people"

I will post any info or instructions on this issue here when some sense can be made of this.

[AZrockbum]

One of my wifes good friends works for an enviornment impact assesment firm in scottsdale (the kind that works for oil refineries and large builders). She has not passed the bar yet but I will call her tonight and ask her for advice.

[Heatstroke]

post this on the NB in the Land Use Folder http://www.ttora.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=27

Ill send a letter as soon as you provide an addy.

Post on www.pirate4x4.com/forum as well


Just added it!

edit:

Now on Pirate too.

[FAUX X 4]

OK here's a good short explanation of what's going on here...

"BLM/Enviro's want to reduce the amount of trails in FJ...their main agruement is trails create habitat fragmentation.

So...the BLM proposed a map several months ago...FJ has 900 miles of trail...the BLM map had 200 miles. Of that 200 miles there were NONE of our 4x4 trails on it. We (Sandy/VJC) objected and sent in a map with all our trails.

BLM has reviewed it and sent it back with LW, OD & AA marked as CLOSED.

We (OHV community) has 45 days to justify to the BLM why the other trails should remain open and why these 3 should not be closed."

We need to show our teeth on this issue and bring the heat in large numbers!!!

[padesertboy]

I have GPS coors. of these trails if needed, not a member of AZVJC...

HOW CAN I HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[FAUX X 4]

Thanks Mike! :kewl:

[FAUX X 4]

I have GPS coors. of these trails if needed, not a member of AZVJC...

HOW CAN I HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Apparently there are meetings with the BLM being scheduled for next week to go over the maps. I will post up any and all info as soon as I get it.

[FAUX X 4]

Heres a little explanation for the hold up on this issue.......

"It's nothing to laugh at, for sure. But it could be smoke, not fire, at this point.

According to Sandee's post over at VJC, we have 45d to propose an alternatative map. Why this proposal wouldn't simply be a map with ALL the trails/roads...I don't know. But she's planning to schedule 2 meetings sometime next week to go over the maps and come up with some alternative between "all open" and some other "preferred plan" (I forgot how exactly she worded it over there)...both of those plans apparently already exist.

Maybe this map from Fernando showing trails "closed" is only his proposal. In other words...NOT FINAL NOR DECIDED yet?????"

Once this is clarified at the meetings planned we will know the route that is needed or channels to bombard with letters/emails/phone calls if needed. At this point it appears as though Francisco is trying to pull a fast one with poorly constructed maps to close these trails he has had a hard-on for closing for some time now.

[Crash]

Francisco's email address

fmendoza@blm.gov

[FAUX X 4]

Francisco's email address

fmendoza@blm.gov

Only problem with that right now is he could just delete any and all emails sent directly to him.........We will need to strike somewhere that will make a difference and will be heard!

[Crash]

Fuck I don't know. Maybe start emailing/writing our senators and pray they listen?

Mccain: http://mccain.senate.gov//contact/index.cfm?ID=64

Kyl: http://kyl.senate.gov/contact.cfm

Renzi: http://www.house.gov/renzi/email.shtml

[FAUX X 4]

From the looks of it per Sandee's response on the AZVJC, our best approach is to stay involved in the planning with the BLM and appropriate channels and show up in numbers at the final land meeting/s...........

(pulled from AZVJC)

"Thanks for your support but at this time letters are not to our benefit. We need those recreationists that know the trails/area to make time to attend the planning meetings to develop an OHV plan to submit. AFTER the public meetings later in the year is when we need as many bodies at the meetings as possible, followed by THOUSANDS of letters.

For now just stay tuned.........."

[TBob]

why is someone selling a "good" one?



anybody want to buy a SAS taco???

[Dick Foster]

So why didn't you post it yourself knothead? It's not rocket science ya know.
WTF is with all of this buck passing shit, you guys? Either get involved or get the fuck out, will ya? Damn posers!! You sit over here in your comfy cave hunkered around your little campfire singing Kumbaya and muttering with each other about it when you could be over on the National board stirring up a real force 4 shit storm for those assholes.
Don't make me come over there and kick all of yer asses.

[Dick Foster]

Not if you do as I suggested and CC the fuckin world with the email. The cc list shows up on his email too so he would be damn stupid to just delete it once he knows it's a record everywhere. Damn guys, get a clue will ya.

[FAUX X 4]

What was that Dick???..............sorry I was busy packing paper sacks full of dog-shit for later tonight. :D

[Dick Foster]

The earlier you strike a blow the less chance they have of entrenching themselves.
Know what, you really suck at war. Being the old baby killer that I am, I know a thing or two and sittin on yer thumbs ain't gonna advance the cause. That much I do know.

[FAUX X 4]

The earlier you strike a blow the less chance they have of entrenching themselves.
Know what, you really suck at war. Being the old baby killer that I am, I know a thing or two and sittin on yer thumbs ain't gonna advance the cause. That much I do know.

Believe me Dick, I'm sending some letters and I'll be at the planning meetings.................the problem we have here is the snake Francisco trying to campaign his own personal agenda by any means necessary, legal or not.

[Dick Foster]

You guys get with all your friends in the local Heep club, I know you know some so don't deny it, quad groups etc. Start contacting those folks today and setup a meeting for all of you to meet next week sometime.
In the meantime, one of you make up a petition for McCain etc. to look in on that BLM asshole stating what they are trying to do and whats wrong with it. Get it signed by everyone at the meeting and then take it down to their Phoenix offices and present it to them. Simple. Send a copy to the asshole at the BLM and another to his boss in DC.

[Dick Foster]

I just outlined a strategy. Read it, heed it, act on it. He will succumb. He is a self interested bureaucrat so he has no other choice in the matter.

[Dick Foster]

I think you'd better switch to email bombs or something. Those bureaucrats live in shit up to their lower lips so they are use to it. LOL

[FAUX X 4]

"THE DICK" HAS SPOKEN!!! :D

[Dick Foster]

Didn't I give you a job to do?
Aren't you damn glad you don't work for me?

See, things could always be worse than they are. That cloud and silver lining story is true.

[Mark in Az]

I know it may not be the time to send letters yet, so just posting this for when the time is right :2cents:

I have Francisco's email as
Francisco_Mendoza@blm.gov
He is the Tucson Planner

and his boss, Patrick Madigan as
Patrick_Madigan@blm.gov
He is the Tucson Field Manager

and here's the rest of the folks at BLM:
Bill_Gibson@blm.gov State OHV Coordinator
Julie_Decker@blm.gov State Resources Coordinator
Mike_Taylor@blm.gov State Resources Deputy Director
Bill_Civish@blm.gov Tucson District Manager
Anna_Atkinson@blm.gov D.C. OHV Coordinator

Please be sure to copy everyone listed here and if possible please
include Chris Radoccia My1stJeep@excite.com. He has helped to keep us up to date in the past and will be working this issue also.
THANKS!

[4xClover]

Thanks for posting all that Mark!!!!!

[hytenor]

Ok boys and girls...first off, BLM cannot do ANYTHING w/o going through certain procedures, period. They can blow smoke, whine and stomp their feet but they want but cannot officially DO anything before all the red tape has been followed....and that will take a lot more than 45 days. The Public Notification process takes about a year.

My wife works against these morons all the time and will put together some facts that I'll get up later today or tonite.

so...don't panic just yet ;)

this post from the jeep forum makes more sense:

Originally Posted by Tom Jacobson
Coupla things...excuse the randomness:

1. Sandee's "comment"...didn't intend to attack or anything. Just know I was on here late yesterday afternoon and poked around the Coke Ovens closure thread again. Didn't catch this one then. Don't get on computer at home at night. Check in this AM and see the original message and only response from Sandee. Computer time for this forum is way off, so don;t when everything transpired. Water under bridge...am defintely willing to participate in meeting(s) next week.


2. Actions req'd - reading again, it looks like the only thing for "us" to do is wait for the meetings to be scheduled. UNLESS you want to be on this panel (3-4 each from OHV, greenies, ranchers, etc)...THEN contact Franciso (cc: Sandee).

If you are interested in participating in the "workgroup" it will most likely mean several WEEKENDS sitting at the table. BLM has agreed to move the workgroup to weekends in lieu of weekdays as to allow more individual to be involved. If you send your name to Francisco this does not necessarily mean you'll automatically be a part of the workgroup. They will be selecting 3-4 from each group that know the area. REMEMBER........... you always have a voice and can ask to be on their mailing list.
3. Is Francisco's map showing the trail closures nothing more than his PROPOSAL? We're being given 45d to make our proposal...assuming he just finished the assignment early!?!?

4. And c'mon, is this serious??? Like Barry said, how the hell can one person behave like this? Laws and rules don't apply? He doesn't have a supervisor? If this is true, and ONE MAN has all this power...it won't matter how many people we have on our side.
He has, he does and he will continue unless we hold him to the rules/regs. I've been struggling with this issue for 6 years with him. He gets away with most due to ONE WORD.............. "minority". He's been staff under 5 different Field Managers of which he had all but 2 conned. It's my belief the current manager is feeling his way through a huge, muddy mess within the Tucson office but he is OHV positive and understanding. He is beginning to see through some of this but either way he wants to be fair to OHV. He over ruled Francisco re the Emergency Closure at Martinez. That's a start. We may lose Lower Woodpecker but we do have the RIGHT to submit substantive data objecting to the Native Americans statement: "This is a sacred area and do not want vehicles "driving" by thusly breaking our aura with the land". This is outright BS.
5. Will there be (valid) proof and support presented to close the trails, just as we're asked to bring proof/reasons to keep them open?
I have all the evaluation maps and the connecting DATA for each mile of trail. Cultural, habitat, sensitivity, mitigation, use..... who, how and where, historical, T&E, study areas, etc were evaluated on each trail. I also have copies of permits BLM issued for tours; rock quarrying (WITHIN LW); etc. I believe we can support our side. If this doesn't work for the Preferred Alternative then we have another chance when all goes to the public.

Tom

[FAUX X 4]

Thanks Mark!.............as was stated on AZVJC...............Patrick (Francisco's boss) would preffer it if we stick with the system in place, ie; attend planning meetings and give input rather than raise holy terror via letter writing campaigns. He said that will reflect well on the OHV community and make it much easier to get what we want when it comes down to the final meetings where the "Designated Trail System" is decided.

[Mark in Az]

Patrick (Francisco's boss) would preffer it if we stick with the system in place, ie; attend planning meetings and give input rather than raise holy terror via letter writing campaigns. He said that will reflect well on the OHV community and make it much easier to get what we want when it comes down to the final meetings where the "Designated Trail System" is decided.

Agreed. No one should raise holy terror, however we may want to also submit the input we gave at the meetings via email. Would be nice if 'the boss' had more control over the wildcard :mad:

[FAUX X 4]

Agreed. No one should raise holy terror, however we may want to also submit the input we gave at the meetings via email. Would be nice if 'the boss' had more control over the wildcard :mad:

Agreed..............I also like The Dick's approach of writting to the higher up's to get some support or at least attention on the subject and maybe shine some light in the rat hole so Francisco knows that he's being watched!

[DCab4X407]

when there is something i can do, let me know, and when the meetings are, if i can be there, I WILL BE THERE!

[FAUX X 4]

when there is something i can do, let me know, and when the meetings are, if i can be there, I WILL BE THERE!

You've got it!

[Bowtie3]

Keep us informed. I'll help anyway i can...

[AZRockToy]

when there is something i can do, let me know, and when the meetings are, if i can be there, I WILL BE THERE!


Yea... what he said!!

[GOT COPE?]

Fuck I don't know. Maybe start emailing/writing our senators and pray they listen?

Mccain: http://mccain.senate.gov//contact/index.cfm?ID=64

Kyl: http://kyl.senate.gov/contact.cfm

Renzi: http://www.house.gov/renzi/email.shtml

McCain should listen, isnt he planning on running for Pres in 08?

[GOT COPE?]

So why didn't you post it yourself knothead? It's not rocket science ya know.
WTF is with all of this buck passing shit, you guys? Either get involved or get the fuck out, will ya? Damn posers!! You sit over here in your comfy cave hunkered around your little campfire singing Kumbaya and muttering with each other about it when you could be over on the National board stirring up a real force 4 shit storm for those assholes.
Don't make me come over there and kick all of yer asses.

I was at work with the boss looking over my shoulder every 5 mins. :flipoff4: And at my job Im constantly away from my cube, so I can only make it to the forum on occasion.

[GOT COPE?]

why is someone selling a "good" one?

He was joking, he was implying that there will be no trails left so he would no longer need a SAS taco.

[Modesto Scott]

He was joking, he was implying that there will be no trails left so he would no longer need a SAS taco.

.

[grumpy]

why is someone selling a "good" one?

mine, I hope its a good one.

and sadly, I'm not totally kidding. From what I understand,
BLM, forest service etc has already had the meeting. This is the outcome of those meeting and whatever else.
its too late!!! same stupid/moronic thing the smokers did and now look what they have. We need to be involved from the begining or better yet. find out what they (governing bodies) are thinking and stop it before the public is informed of it.
please, PLEASE prove me wrong. IMO if I'm correct, we'd be better off leting these go and fighting hard and banding together with all the az wheelers to keep whats left open.
Kton and I, 3 yrs ago atended a meeting in floence about these trail and others.
one easy thing most of can do is, take a pic of license plate
of everyone tearing up, trashing etc the area and send it to the regulating auth. I've been told by BLM, FS and park rangers that they will cite (ticket) and prosicute the offenders. obviiously, try not to been seen photoing.

[grumpy]

I just read the thread over on VJC and it doesn't look like we even have a choice with this. Looks like they have already made up their mind.

If there is something we can do (meetings, letter or both) we ALL need to get involved and do what we can!!

We cannot sit idle and watch all the trails be closed and then bitch about it when it happens if we didn't do anything. We ALL need to help!!

see my other reply. this was being planned and public mtgs etc 3 yrs ago. this is the outcome of us (offroad users) not doing anything till too late.

[TBob]

LOL! yea I know - I was busting his balls

He was joking, he was implying that there will be no trails left so he would no longer need a SAS taco.

[TBob]

so I wouldn't panic yet... another thing if one person is shutting this down does it mean that one person is the same one that will be inforcing the closer?

mine, I hope its a good one.

and sadly, I'm not totally kidding. From what I understand,
BLM, forest service etc has already had the meeting. This is the outcome of those meeting and whatever else.
its too late!!! same stupid/moronic thing the smokers did and now look what they have. We need to be involved from the begining or better yet. find out what they (governing bodies) are thinking and stop it before the public is informed of it.
please, PLEASE prove me wrong. IMO if I'm correct, we'd be better off leting these go and fighting hard and banding together with all the az wheelers to keep whats left open.
Kton and I, 3 yrs ago atended a meeting in floence about these trail and others.
one easy thing most of can do is, take a pic of license plate
of everyone tearing up, trashing etc the area and send it to the regulating auth. I've been told by BLM, FS and park rangers that they will cite (ticket) and prosicute the offenders. obviiously, try not to been seen photoing.

[Dick Foster]

At least let them know that we all have our fingers on a hair trigger and know how to play politics all the way from the town or Florence up to the national level. You want them to be afraid, very afraid. Fear is good.
Yeah I know, I'm just a mean ole bully.

[Dick Foster]

I doubt that he counts on a shit load of votes from the off road community making a difference. He wouldn't do anything directly but his office staff would.

[FAUX X 4]

This is a response from Francisco taken from AZVJC:

Thanks for the note of interest.
A letter announcing the BLM transportation planning effort this year went
out earlier this week which included the initial information about the
project. Included in the mailing was a card for persons interested in
helping to fill out mailing/contact information. The card info is below:
Could you fill it out and email it back to me. I will then send you a of
the mailing on the project. If you are interested in participating in the
workshop meetings, let me know what dates in Feb-Mar might work best for
you.

Thanks,

MIDDLE GILA CANYONS AREA BLM TRANSPORTATION PLAN
INTEREST RESPONSE CARD

If you are interested in participating in this project, of if you would
like to be removed from the planning list, please indicate your
preference and fill out your contact information below and return to the
BLM Tucson Field Office at 12661 E. Broadway Blvd., Tucson, AZ 85748
by no later than January 19, 2006.

___ YES, I am interested in this project and will provide input but
will not be able to participate in the workshop meetings.

___ YES, I am interested in this project and will be able to
participate in the workshop meetings planned in February and March
2007.

___ NO, I am not interested in this project, please remove me from
the planning list.

Name: __________________________________________________ _

Address: _________________________________________________

Phone: __________________________________________________ _

Email: __________________________________________________ _



Francisco J. Mendoza
Outdoor Recreation Planner
12661 E. Broadway Blvd.
Tucson, AZ 85748
PH(520) 258-7226
FAX(520) 258-7238

[AZrockbum]

Does anyone have any idea where the meetings are held? I see his office is in tucson so if the meetings are down here I will absolutely be there.

[FAUX X 4]

Does anyone have any idea where the meetings are held? I see his office is in tucson so if the meetings are down here I will absolutely be there.

Sandee said she would post up the meeting locations and info, but has yet to say for sure when or where..............maybe we should all send Francisco an email inquiring about this???

fmendoza@blm.gov

[Westy]

The pre-meetings Sandee will be arranging to outline a plan for the OHV community will be held on a weekend in the PHX area, as far as the meetings with the BLM - I'm not sure.

Their main office is in PHX, but the Tucson office is responsible for the area in question.

[GOT COPE?]

LOL! yea I know - I was busting his balls
lol I figured you knew better.

[grumpy]

lol I figured you knew better.

dont buy it!!!! he was and still is throughtly confused :D

[grumpy]

so I wouldn't panic yet... another thing if one person is shutting this down does it mean that one person is the same one that will be inforcing the closer?

I'm not panicing yet. j :eek: just a presale announcement!!
NO, if its BLM closure then BLM will enforce. if you were thinking 1 person enforcing he can't be everywhere at once...
be careful, be very very careful!!!!!!

[FAUX X 4]

Here is a draft of the letter I will be sending Francisco...

To:
Mr. Francisco J. Mendoza
Outdoor Recreation Planner
12661 E. Broadway Blvd.
Tucson, AZ 85748
PH(520) 258-7226
FAX(520) 258-7238

Dear Mr. Mendoza:

I would like to address the situation at hand in the Florence area in regards to off-road activity. Many rumors are floating around as to the closing of portions and/or all of the area to off-road use. I am very displeased with this proposal and want to participate in any decisions that might be made pertaining the closing of our public lands.

I frequent the beautiful area commonly referred to as "Florence Junction" off-roading. I have spent thousands of hard earned dollars on my "toy" for this hobby and take pride in what I do.

As a member of several off-road clubs; AZ TTORA, AZ Undertakers and AZVJC. We are very concerned about the current talks of closing the areas we all love. We are well aware of the areas tender habitat and feel it must be protected, thus the "tread lightly" attitude we take with us to the trail each and every time we visit the Florence Junction area. We are also aware of those that do not tread lightly and deface the land that we care so much about. Trash, graffiti and abandoned vehicles are all left behind by individuals that don't frequent the area or care if they remain accessible. Unfortunately these individuals are often not apprehended by law enforcement and continue to DESTROY our public lands. It is the actions of these people that are endangering the off-road clubs future use of the land.

The Florence Junction area has some fabulous history amongst it including some of the largest displays of Indian petroglyphs in the western united states. Other historical sites include several old mines and remnants of mining structures including those in Martinez Canyon. The off-road enthusiast population respect these landmarks and would never think of defacing them.

The flora/fauna in the Florence Junction area is of course fragile, as in any other arid desert land. Again, the off-road community respects the living entity of the area and would never think of harming the balance of nature. We love this land. This land is OURS and YOURS to enjoy for today, tomorrow and the future.

Here is a list of things we do when visiting this land:

1. Stay on already pre-established roads or in washes.

2. Carry out any and all trash we bring in as well as pick up any trash left by others.

3. Clean-up oil and fluids when applicable.

Here are a list of things we DON'T do:

1. We do not carve new roads.

2. We do not shoot weapons and leave a litter of targets and spent cartridges.

3. We do not deface the land with litter and graffiti.

4. We do not kill wildlife or steal plants and rocks.

What we want, is to be able to continue using our public land for which it was intended. That being a habitat-friendly recreational use for which we believe the off-roading sport applies. We all deeply respect the land for which we and our ancestors have fought for all these years and deserve the right to continue to use them.

[padesertboy]

VERY VERY well stated!
How can I help?

[FAUX X 4]

At the moment, you can send a letter like mine to Francisco asking to be put on the planning commitee, but I would leave his Boss (Patrick) alone as he has already stated that an out pouring of letters at this time would do nothing other than irritate them as they have given an open invitation to attend the meetings and let our voices be heard through participation and getting involved in the process.

[yogiaz]

Send him a snail mail, and a copy to the Governors office.

Yogi

Only problem with that right now is he could just delete any and all emails sent directly to him.........We will need to strike somewhere that will make a difference and will be heard!

[DCab4X407]

hows this whole thing going? i need an update people :)

[FAUX X 4]

http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57806

[DCab4X407]

http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57806

ok..... that doesnt explain whats going on, its just showing that you guys met.....

[4xClover]

ok..... that doesnt explain whats going on, its just showing that you guys met.....

There are a couple of thread on this board that also reference threads on AZVJC message board - in fact, some of the threads here have copied information from the AZVJC. I guess you going to have to do some searching the "Land Use Issues" folder here .... it's there, you just have to do some reading.