Axle opinion please.

[vwfastg60]

Im giving up on the IFS. I have the option to pick up a stock toy front and gear it with an arb or a high pin elocker. OR I can swap to 8 lug and run a D44 front and a 14bolt rear. Im going to be skipping leafs all together and going to 4link front and rear with coilovers. Right now i have an elocker in the rear but still need gears so either one will need gears X2 and depending on what i do will need a front locker and gears maybe 2. What would you do in my boat?

[RedRunnertc]

Welllll .... make NO mistake - the 44 is not any stronger than a Toyota axle. The reason I would go with the 44/14bolt is to be full width. Since you're going to redo the suspension completely anyways, it's not really much extra work.

I would HIGHLY recommend high pinion for the front - gears will be 30% stronger (because they are on the drive side, not the coast side).

Look into 3 link + panhard for the front (or even y-link + panhard).

Make sure the 14b is a full floater. It also has a HUGE diff - search on how to shave it to get some ground clearance back.

[AxleIke]

The guys at ORS put a three link with CO's on a stock toy axle. It flopped quick.

If you truly are going to go for a sweet suspension, please do not jump on the "cheap" bandwagon like so many idiots do. Get full width. Get cromo. get lockers. Get another transfer case. quit screwing around. Do it once, and do it right.

If you want cheap, stick your thumb up your ass, go leafs and stock, watch it break, and spend more time doing trail repairs than you ever did with IFS.

[thefatkid]

If it were me and I had unlimited funds.....

I'd get some diamonds, 8" highpinion front with cromos and 30splines, 9.5 LC rear with cromos and full floater. I'm a toyota guy and like toyota stuff, and if you compare complete proper builds on both axles the difference in cost is close. If you just taking the junkyard axles how you get them and welding them, junkyard is way cheaper. A 3/4ton 14bolt has a 9.5 ring gear, same as the LC diff. ARB will make you some 35 spline side gears out of 300m for you LC diff if you want. I know this all sounds like my wet dream.

If you do go coils you must do wider the stock toyota. I did stock toyota and my truck performed soo bad I tore it down an parted it, I no longer extream rock crawl. Bad taste.

[TruckinT]

X2 on the Diamond axles! The reason why so many people build Toyota's is because of their light-weight. Putting a 14bolt under there is literally adding an anchor to your rig! It's heavy and has a HUGE diff. I'm with thefatkid, get some full width (~64-66" WMS) Diamond axles with Longfields, ARB or elockers, ARP stud kit, etc. If I wasn't in college and needed my money for books and shit, this is the set-up that would be under my rig right now!

Hell, if you really want a bomb set-up, throw some of those six-shooter knuckles on there and I'll really be jealous!:welder:

[vwfastg60]

Well Diamonds are not an option. If i go full size it will take me a while longer to get them ready for instal cause i will be doing gears and lockers. Im not doing the 4link myself and the guy who is doing it knows what hes doing. I watched the jeep that he built from top to bottom and with D60's and 42's it can put one tire higher then i am tall with no movement out from under the truck. Its amazing! Im going to see if i can get the pic from Bart where its parked up a pole! the links were done great and i have seen how strong that thing was built first hand and honestly that thing is making me want to go Lower and wider.

Troy thanks for the info on a high pin. It kinda sucks if i go with the set my friend has cause they aren't

[AxleIke]

you have the right idea. Wider and lower.

Consider the size tire you want to run as well. You may beable to get away with a junkyard axle on 35's or 36's. 40's will require cromo however you look at it.

As long as you're away from stock toy, you should be okay.

[RedRunnertc]

I always forget about LC axles ... or even a T100 axle would get you close to full width and allow you to use your existing rear thirdmember.

[AxleIke]

LC axles are cool, you'll have to make sure you have clearance with your links to run the driveshaft on the pass side in the rear, since it will be at an angle.

If you used your rear with the LC axle, it would have to go to the front, since the rear is a bigger ring gear, 8.875 i believe.

Also, with tundra stuff, usually people go with that for a bigger ring gear again, for strength.

Although all are probably tired of hearing it by now, i'll give my SA rant anyway.

First of all, the main reason most people, VW included, say they want to SAS, is for strength. Link suspensions are not inherently stronger or weaker than leafs, they are different. IE: bend a lower on the trail, you aren't going anywhere, bend a leaf, and you can limp. Cant wrap a link set up, i've permanently bent my rear leafs with wrap.

SOOOO, the main thing most like about links over leafs is adujustabliity and flex. However, when wheeling, if you are flexed all over the place or only a little, but broke, you're still broke.

I'm not by any means trying to steer you away from links, in fact, i encourage it, go for it. But for goodness sake, and all that is sacred in wheeling, put some damn money in the parts that make you go. on relatively little tires (less than 40") cromo axles are almost bombproof. strong DOM steering with hiems with grade 8 hardware, almost bombproof.

Whether you go domestic, LC/T100, or custom width toy, it will cost roughly the same to build the axle. You can do this swap for 6k no problem, probably less if you do axle rebuilds, ETC yourself.

You'll never bend or break stuff, and with two lockers, gears, and transfer cases, you will get to the ultimate goal: Drive to trail, Wheel, Drive home. No breaks, no hassle.

[TowerRigger]

ARB also makes a selectable locker for the 14bolt ff now. That used to be it's only downfall no selectable options. You can run damn near any tire you want with that axle. but if your going to go with that much strength in the rear why not get a D60 or hell D70 to match the rear strength. Remember ground clearance and unsprung wieght though.

[vwfastg60]

I wheeled with the jeep that makes me want links and its almost unstopable. The fab shop did amazing work! I will charge my camera and get pics on monday of it. I watched him fall on his links twice and nothing happened. I know that it will at somepoint but they built an almost bomb proof rig. I can have the links done if i bring him a clean axle for under 2k with hydro steering. I plan on running my 36's for a while longer maybe go to a 38 with some cutting. The idea i have is lower the truck about 2inches on the 36's with a 12.5 coilover. The rear the same.

If i were to go leafs and it is an option at this point for the price im thinking keep it the same height and push the axle forward some. I want high steer forsure but right now the issue will be money. I broke something other then the idler arm tonight so something should happen pretty quick. At this point i may just leaf it with a Toy axle and gears with a high pin elocker. I will have to live by the whole "If it aint broke dont fix it and if it is broke upgrade" saying.

I was trying to keep the truck together for a few more months so i could make up my mind but i dont know what broke yet but its not something simple i dont think. It about 2 inches lower on the passenger front. It leans like crazy and steers like poop. I guess i will find out today when i tare in to it.

Can i make a toy axle wider? I really like my stance now and think its fine but with all the Ifs hubs/spacers from sky i would have to run a wheel spacer on top of that to match my rear IFS axle and 1.5 in spacers. To me that seems like a lot of stress on the front but i could be wrong.

[thefatkid]

Yea, a 1.5" spacer or the IFS hub both give you a very bad scrub radius. If you were to add a spacer on top of that it would only get worse. If it is a trailered rig I would not worry so much, a DD will handle funny in the corners. Wheel bearing wear is an issue also, and extream cases I've seen the kunckle bearings break.

It sounds like you broke a T-bar or socket. Sockets are common on the older body style truck/runners. You can go to a junk yard and get the newer style or get some from somone who swaped recently. If nothing looks broken I would worry that the t-bar is on it's last legs and ready to give up.

[AxleIke]

Check the laws if you have hydro. Some states it is illegal to have full hydro steering on road. Hydro Assist is fine.

[Volcom]

For now, I'm sticking with the stock Toyota front axle. If you go that route, pony up the $650 for the Longfields. It will save you tons of heartache and replacing broken birfields on the trail. The other negative about the Toyota axle is the narrow width. So far, it's working out for me. I'm running wheel spacers and 2.5" backspaced wheels so I'm pretty much as wide as you can get a Toyota axle. I don't daily drive it so I'm not worried about the wear and tear on the bearings.

I do see myself one of these days swapping to full width one tons but for the next couple of years, I'll keep the Toyota stuff and wheel the snot out of it :D

Diamonds are nice but if I'm going to go big, I'm going to full width 1 tons.

[AxleIke]

For now, I'm sticking with the stock Toyota front axle. If you go that route, pony up the $650 for the Longfields. It will save you tons of heartache and replacing broken birfields on the trail. The other negative about the Toyota axle is the narrow width. So far, it's working out for me. I'm running wheel spacers and 2.5" backspaced wheels so I'm pretty much as wide as you can get a Toyota axle. I don't daily drive it so I'm not worried about the wear and tear on the bearings.

I do see myself one of these days swapping to full width one tons but for the next couple of years, I'll keep the Toyota stuff and wheel the snot out of it :D

Diamonds are nice but if I'm going to go big, I'm going to full width 1 tons.

If he goes leafs, he can go that route.

You can get full width diamonds sized for the tundra diffs. Pretty much same strength as one tons.

[Volcom]

I agree about the width and links. Go wider if you plan on linking it. Leafs and stock Toyota width axles work well. You might consider running leaf springs. Flex-wise, I haven't been in a spot that I needed more flex than what my leaves could give me (week in Moab, Liberty, Eagle Rock, Blanca)

[sexy.taco]

Im giving up on the IFS. I have the option to pick up a stock toy front and gear it with an arb or a high pin elocker. OR I can swap to 8 lug and run a D44 front and a 14bolt rear. Im going to be skipping leafs all together and going to 4link front and rear with coilovers. Right now i have an elocker in the rear but still need gears so either one will need gears X2 and depending on what i do will need a front locker and gears maybe 2. What would you do in my boat?
Ok I know I said I'd stop lurking... I guess I lied :(

I know the new in thing is the Diamond axles. They are awesome, but for the extra money I wouldn't personally purchase one. I recently acquired a D44 that I plan on swapping out with 3 link in the front, chromos, CTMs, etc. I'm keeping the stock axle in the rear for the mean time. I know plenty of people running 44s with chromos, etc that do absolutely fine without breaking things on trails rated in the 9/10s. I like the domestic axles mostly because birfs are soooooo messy. Replacing a u-joint can be a PITA but atleast when all is said and fixed you're not covered in grease.

You mentioned a 44/14bolt mix. I wouldn't personally go that direction. I'd go with either the 44 and the stock rear or 14bolt/60 front and rear. Depending on how extreme your rock crawling recreation extends, this would be the decision maker. If you do trails like say the Rubicon, going with the stock/44 option would totally work. If you plan on tackling things like The Hammers, or obstacles like Little Sluice on the Rubicon then you might want to go with the larger axle. Or to put into reference for the Colorado area... running the smaller set up would work for most of the trails with minimal issues. Although if you plan on running things like Liberty or BV Carnage, then the larger setup might be prefered.

I'd personally say choose between the two for various reasons. One is a 14bolt/60 is a boat anchor and will catch on things with the recommended max tire size for a 44 (ie: 35/37). Getting larger tires puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the 44 and stuff tends to break. I plan on running the same tire size (35s) as I have now with the set up I'm looking at. My eventual plans for years down the road is getting 60s front and rear, keeping the 3 link in the front and doing 4 link in the rear with 44s and full hydro. But for now the 44 and 35s will get me almost anywhere. :2cents:

[AxleIke]

Stregth it is a wash, and as you said, you get less greasy with the ujoints. The thing diamonds have over domestic is the ability to stay toyota. He was talking about his rear electric locker, and whatnot, so i figured if he could stay toyota but get the extra width, he'd be good. In addition, if you wheel with toyota folks who run stock stuff, their spare diffs/studs/hubs, etc will fit your junk if you break stuff.

Also, i'm curious about the price difference you speak of. Granted, i only know 3 people who've built domestic axles with cromo and the works, but they were into their axle the same amount as you'd be with a daimond with cromo. Perhaps they just didn't find the right places? Is there a cheaper place to buy cromo stuff for those axles?

I'll add a disclaimer, since usually people take my posts out of context, but this is simply an inquiry for information, and not confrontational or critical, in case the post was taken that way. Often people think i'm being a dick even when i'm simply trying to ask a question...

[sexy.taco]

No disclaimer needed... you didn't sound confrontational to me.

I bought my D44 axle with all seals, bearings, etc for $170. They run about $150 at the junkyard unless you go on half price day and that is self explanatory. I would estimate chromos being around $600, so now you are in for almost $800. A Diamond housing new alone costs $900. Reference Diamond's website for things associated with the housing:
http://www.diamondaxle.com/front_steering.htm
You still have to account for gearing, any locker, seals, etc. I've got an estimate for a little over $1400 from Inchworm to set up my front end gears, ARB locker, etc... the price includes all the parts, and considering the ARB is the most expensive locker commonly used on the trail, the price seems pretty fair

There are plenty of people with swapped trucks out here in NorCal. Just alone in my driveway there are two Tacos swapped with a D44/leaf set up. I know of a few running Diamonds and 3 link, other running Diamonds and leaf and then those running 44s and 3 link, etc. Many of these guys either did the swap in their driveway/garage or helped out at a buddies offroad shop. I've been looking at different setups, costs, complication, how they perform and trails such as the Rubicon, etc. and have made my decision based on that. Just my :2cents: :)

[devinsixtyseven]

Jumpin' in briefly...

The difference between buying DA (or Spidertrax, etc) is really only what you pay for the housing itself...the guts cost the same whether you're filling a junkyard housing or the aftermarket piece. The benefit of the custom housings is drive-by-feel strength, you choose any width you want, and good clearance...a manufactured center with a Hi9 is about the same clearance as a stock Taco/Tundra center. Like Sexy was saying the downside is it's about a grand for that housing, but back to the benefits you can dress it from the scrap yard until you can afford the nice stuff.

In the rear, you can also build a Tundra axle with 35 spline full float if you choose, and until you have the money for it, you can run it stock with the 66" wms semi-float parts and the stronger, non-elocker carrier...it's an open diff, but you can get ARBs and other stuff. Incidentally, I know where you can get a bone stock, rarely abused, Tundra axle for cheap, if you can wait a couple months ;). Even trussed, it'll be a lot lighter than a 14b anchor.

There are a few guys running D44 housings under the front of their Tundras, but the only one that hasn't broken yet is a hybrid 44/60, basically 35sp 60 guts with a 44r/p and 44 housing. Light weight, strong, he hasn't busted the r/p yet AFAIK.

Hope that helps a little, good luck with it...like Ike and Sexy are saying, do it right, do it once.

-Sean

[AxleIke]

No disclaimer needed... you didn't sound confrontational to me.

I bought my D44 axle with all seals, bearings, etc for $170. They run about $150 at the junkyard unless you go on half price day and that is self explanatory. I would estimate chromos being around $600, so now you are in for almost $800. A Diamond housing new alone costs $900. Reference Diamond's website for things associated with the housing:
http://www.diamondaxle.com/front_steering.htm
You still have to account for gearing, any locker, seals, etc. I've got an estimate for a little over $1400 from Inchworm to set up my front end gears, ARB locker, etc... the price includes all the parts, and considering the ARB is the most expensive locker commonly used on the trail, the price seems pretty fair

There are plenty of people with swapped trucks out here in NorCal. Just alone in my driveway there are two Tacos swapped with a D44/leaf set up. I know of a few running Diamonds and 3 link, other running Diamonds and leaf and then those running 44s and 3 link, etc. Many of these guys either did the swap in their driveway/garage or helped out at a buddies offroad shop. I've been looking at different setups, costs, complication, how they perform and trails such as the Rubicon, etc. and have made my decision based on that. Just my :2cents: :)


Ahhh, they must've included their gears/locker/etc set up when the people i know quoted out the price...Good to know.

[sexy.taco]

Ahhh, they must've included their gears/locker/etc set up when the people i know quoted out the price...Good to know.
Yeah... I'm still in the beginning learning stages of this whole process. I wheel both and IFS truck on 35s and a SFA truck on 35s, but building mine is kind of foreign. A friend who is skilled in swaps and fabrication is helping me out with this one. Just spouting out what I have learned thus far and my general opinion :)

[vwfastg60]

Bringin this back but different. After driving a few rigs i looked more in to leafs. Teh linked trucks drove good but for what im ready to do and the other plans i have for the truck i need to start small.

The brakage of the IFS is killing me and the way i look at it is i can spend $300 every month or so fixing little stuff to make the truck drive straight or i can just wheel a bit less drive the car and save that money for a SAS and bumpers and gears.

Im looking in to cruiser axles to get close to the full size(kinda thought the cruisers and t100/tundra was) axles and some better leafs to go with it. While its all out im going to gear and lock em. The plus side to a toy axle is i have the elocker rear 3rd and i could put that in the front and even detroit the rear. I like that it would be all toyota stuff more then the idea of a D44 or 60 at this point.

Im coming up short on finding an axle but dont know where to look other then craigslist and haven't found much. Any people that part them? What should i expect to pay for a front with the steering rods and brakes? The rear i guess i could even leave it for now because i have spacers on there and i could just leave em off the front. If thatg works i can just leave the locker in the rear and grab another for the front.

Whats a good leaf to run. Im at about 6inches of lift right now and dont want to go much higher and like where im at i just want it to ride nice and flex as much as possible. Im having everything welded up and set up im just taking parts and runing the plasma and grinder for the IFS and cleaning the frame and axle or with any luck axles. The guy doing the welding has to be the best welder i have ever seen in my life and when it comes to fab work he makes me sick because i cant afford to let him go crazy. I talked to him today and the plan is bring parts he will truss the front and build it up as strong as can be,weld perches and hangers shock hoops the whole thing. I told him i want to help rip it all off and do whatever i can to be a part of the build. Hes going to throw some sliders on too. A few months later the bumpers and tire carrier.

Heres some of his work. For people interested in getting bumpers,sliders,links or anything he is the man.
Bag/links on and old pick up
http://a28.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/76/l_ac39c3082f8edf68fd4280a6d2a89a7b.jpg
4 link on D60'ed jeep(this is the one that made me want links)
http://a986.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/34/l_69bb14674d71308c440167dbbfb30ed9.jpg

[RedRunnertc]

The LC axle might be a good choice, but I don't know if the diff is on the right side or not. Search for one with a high pinion elocker - will be 30% stronger than using your elocker.

If money is an issue, there's nothing wrong with leaving the rear as it is, get the front perfect then look at the rear.

There's a guy on yotatech (cmadness) who lives down in Parker and just swapped both axles out of his 80 series for ones with elockers. He might be able to help you out, otherwise cruise the Rising Sun forum and www.ih8mud.com - those are the LC places. Slee down in Golden could probably help you out too.

[AxleIke]

The LC diff is on the correct side.

Troy is right, the HP is stronger, BUT, everyone else knows that too, which means it will cost you. If it were me, trying to get this done, I'd put the elocker i had in the front, with an upgrade in my future mods. You are running 36's open now, correct? Sounds like you've kept your 7.5 together, i'm pretty sure you'll be fine.

The other thing with the LC axles is that you'll have to set caster. Do research on that. You have to clean the housings completely, all brackets, and thus you will be starting fresh.

As for springs, you cannot go wrong with Alcan. If you go with them, you will get custom springs specifically designed and built for your truck, and as flexy or stiff as you want.

[Jacket]

There's a guy on yotatech (cmadness) who lives down in Parker and just swapped both axles out of his 80 series for ones with elockers. He might be able to help you out, otherwise cruise the Rising Sun forum and www.ih8mud.com - those are the LC places. Slee down in Golden could probably help you out too.

IIRC - Slee did the diff swap for cmadness.