Class 7 2001 Tacoma Build

[socalmoto]

I have been working on the truck for about a week now trying to make it a Score legal class 7 race truck. We have been working on the truck itself for over a year, but that was mainly trying to keep the thing running. After many breaks we finally realized that the front driver shock was not working properly and that was the cause of all the problems. But the damage has been done and so now it should become a race truck.

The truck is a 2001 4x4 extended cab tacoma. It has the trd super on it right now, but we'll have to drop that to race score. The front suspension is a tc upper uniball lt kit with 10" 2.5" fox coilovers. And the rear is deavers with 14" 2.5" fox bypasses. The plan for this build is to build a Score legal rollcage, replace the front clip with tubing, redo the front shock mounts to hold 14" 2.5" fox coilovers, and if there is enough money and time left over we might 3 link it. For now we'll leave the front suspension.

The pics are of the truck before starting this build. Hopefully the pics show up. And I'll put up pics of the progress so far when I find a card reader.
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_0001.jpg
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_0074.jpg
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_5288.jpg
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_5264.jpg

[marnes2986]

Quick Q?

Why are you using 10" 2.5 Fox coilovers. I thought the TC kit for you year trucks calls for an 8" coilover?? :confused: I beleive the only TC kit that calls for a 10" c/o is the genII/III kits....did you cut your coil buckets and make new shock hoops?

Good luck with the build!

[Zsasbo]

this truck looks familiar...is this Milton?

[YoTRacer158]

Yeah that has to be milton...

[ryguy]

does the TC kit 4wd allow for a 10" or a 14"?? I dont think you can get that much amount of travel due to the 4wd right? Are you saying that you have to go to a 14" since you might have to cut the coil bucket off due to the coil bucket failing? Just wondering.. Cool build!

[Tweeter]

does the TC kit 4wd allow for a 10" or a 14"?? I dont think you can get that much amount of travel due to the 4wd right? Are you saying that you have to go to a 14" since you might have to cut the coil bucket off due to the coil bucket failing? Just wondering.. Cool build!

WTF are you talking about?

You use a dual rate 10" stroke coilover in the SAME LOCATION as the 8" stroke coilover would go. This allows you one more inch out of the kit with or without 4WD. If you're serious about racing it's a pretty good investment, most people wouldn't know the difference. I'd love to see someone try to fit a 14" shock on the TC kit :rofl: sounds totally possible :rolleyes:

[ryguy]

WTF are you talking about?

You use a dual rate 10" stroke coilover in the SAME LOCATION as the 8" stroke coilover would go. This allows you one more inch out of the kit with or without 4WD. If you're serious about racing it's a pretty good investment, most people wouldn't know the difference. I'd love to see someone try to fit a 14" shock on the TC kit :rofl: sounds totally possible :rolleyes:

Im actually just repeating all that he said.. I was under the impression that you cant fit a 10" dual rate coil over in the same bucket location?? If Im wrong, so be it.. It was a question not a statement. As for the 14" shock on the TC kit, again, just repeating.. So WTF are you talking about;)

[Tweeter]

I think it's pretty apparent what I was saying.

[Wheelin taco2131]

wtf is up with ur advitar

[cabbage]

Yes guys, its my truck, Socalmoto is my buddy Steve, he's been working on it for a long time now...

Yes, we got rid of the stock coil buckets a long time ago, we're planning on redoing the current hoop set up to fix 14" travel shocks (2wd).

The cage has been finished, well, mostly.

I'll start posting up photos! It'll be more like a story than a build up :rolleyes:

Oh, his avatar is when the unbraced spindle broke. Photos of that day will be included as well!

[ryguy]

nice cabbage!! cool!

[AZNPG]

looks nice man

[cabbage]

I'll start with the 2004, 2005 photos. Truck wasnt mine at that time.
10/30/2004 Pismo Beach Camping
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/041030%20camp.jpg

10/22/2005 Pismo Beach (Truck just got Total Chaos Long travel kit)
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/051022%20dunes.jpg

11/05/2005 Pismo Beach (TLCA Surf and Turf)
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/051105%20dunes.jpg


LOTS more coming! I'll post them up tomorrow!

[socalmoto]

We're not going to try to use all of the 14" travel shock on the tc kit. Later on we're going to build new control arms and spindles. But for right now Im going to cage the whole front end, and I hate having to keep tearing apart something that I already did to fit new equipment, ie new shocks. So for now Im setting up the 14" shocks so that they wont bottom out with the tc kit, and Im going to strap the front suspension so that I dont over extend the cv's.

Then when later comes around (new suspension) we'll see how much travel we can get out of 4wd. And we'll make the shock mounts on the lower control arm out closer to the tire so that the shock works more effectively and use the full 14" of travel. Or we might just "forget" to put the front diff in and see how much travel we want with 2wd.

[GreenTaco]

I've heard of, but never seen a 14" shock with the TC kit. But, the shock used a shaft from a 10" shock. The top of the coil bucket was cut off and the shock was bolted to the engine cage. Who ever built the truck said it was to take the load off of the stock bucket and also to make the engine cage designe better by not having to drop tubes down to the bucket. I wish I could find pictures to make it clearer, but I can't find them right now.

[socalmoto]

I dont understand the shaft from a 10" inch shock part, but I do understand bolting it to the engine cage. Thats kind of what I might be doing. We're going to have the shocks mount up to a 2" od tube running out from the cab cage through the fire wall that will drop to the frame just past where the stock shock mount was. There will be an engine cage connecting the driver and passenger side tubes. And the engine cage will be welded to the 2" tubes directly where the shocks mount up. This should keep the tubes from trying to bend in towards each other and keep the frame from flexing anymore.

Does anybody know where to find some adjustable seat sliders for mastercraft proseats? If they even exist.

[CentralCoastTaco99]

WTF are you talking about?

You use a dual rate 10" stroke coilover in the SAME LOCATION as the 8" stroke coilover would go. This allows you one more inch out of the kit with or without 4WD. If you're serious about racing it's a pretty good investment, most people wouldn't know the difference. I'd love to see someone try to fit a 14" shock on the TC kit :rofl: sounds totally possible :rolleyes:

a 10" stroke coilover in the SAME LOCATION? you sure? maybe same location on the arm, but there is NO WAY it would work in the coilbucket... thats why TC sells their kit w/ bump spacers.. to keep an 8 from bottoming out. i'm sure you meant the same location on the arm, not the bucket though, right? ;)

[cabbage]

5/07/2006 Installing URD fuel kit (I've bought the truck for a month or 2 now)
http://miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/060507%20urd.jpg

5/30/2006 Steve made a CO2 tank bracket
http://miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/060530%20co2%20braket.jpg

7/04/2007 Pozo
http://miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/060704%20pozo.jpg

[cabbage]

7/09/2006 Painted front fenders
Primer
http://miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/060709%20paint1.jpg
Paint
http://miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/060709%20paint3.jpg
Dry
http://miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/060709%20paint2.jpg
Buff
http://miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/060709%20paint4.jpg

7/14/2006
Finished
http://miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/060714%20pismo.jpg

http://miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/060714%20pismo%202.jpg

[cabbage]

7/22/2006 Reinforcing the frame
(notice how Chris is sitting :eek: He'll prob kill me for posting this photo and pointing that out:D )
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/060722%20frame.jpg

Dunes
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/060722%20dunes1.jpg

Spare tire carrier
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/060722%20dunes2.jpg

7/23/06 High Mountain road in back of Lopez lake
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/060723%20pozo.jpg

[cabbage]

8/07/2006 Took the bed off (Think this is when I bought a TIG welder)
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/060807%20bed%20off.jpg

8/09/2006 Rewelding a hole on the rear shock hoop
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/060809%20weld.jpg

8/10/2006 Remounted rear shock tabs at 1:30am
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/060810%20weld.jpg

8/13/2006 Had a trailer so we decided to take the truck out on a trailer... = go all out?! :rolleyes:
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/060813%20spindle1.jpg

And what do you know.. 10 mins in the dunes, spindle gives at the drag strip, had to park it at Toyworx (Thanks Dan!)
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/060813%20spindle2.jpg

This is how we manged to limp out of the dunes to the trailer (Always carry ratchet straps)
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/060813%20spindle3.jpg

This is the part on the spindle that broke (sad part is the spindle gussets were already paid for sitting at Central Coast Prerunners :rolleyes: )
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/060813%20spindle4.jpg

8/23/2006 Back to Toyworx to fix our mess
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/060823%20spindle.jpg

[cabbage]

9/12/2006 Spare tire carrier (notice steve working on the cab crack)
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/060912%20spare.jpg

This is when we redid the front shock mounts and added the engine brace/cage
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/060912%20spare2.jpg

9/19/2006 Front hoops (to defend Steve, it was really windy so the welds on one of the plates looks really really sh*tty)
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/060919%20hoop.jpg

9/20/2006 Finished, went to the dunes to test, nothing broke, hoops held up (havent had any problems so far)
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/060920%20finished.jpg

[ryguy]

nice! Now this is a good write up.. All from 2004-Present.. I love it!

[TruckinT]

I'm a 'crawler guy but everytime I come over to this side of TTORA, I like what I see more and more! You would think I'd be prerunnin', givin that I race karts at 95MPH, but then 'wheel at 3MPH? Maybe when I have enough money to make my truck trail-only, I'll buy a Tacoma and go this route (not THIS extreme tho:D ).

Good lookin' truck, I really like the Taco's that had the color-matched bumpers/grill, plus the red is just bitchin'. Props:welder:

[marnes2986]

I really appreciate the timeline!!!! NICE...dates and everything :D

[cabbage]

Thanks guys! Got lots more coming! Its really funny cuz a year ago the truck didnt look anything like it is right now! Its always improving! :)

[socalmoto]

Im surprised no one liked the tail light mounts. Good ol duct tape and zip ties. And again, does any one know where to get some adjustable seat mounts?

[cabbage]

Im surprised no one liked the tail light mounts. Good ol duct tape and zip ties. And again, does any one know where to get some adjustable seat mounts?

Dont think many people like ur tail light mounts... Not even the Cop that told u they are too far front... :p

[AZNPG]

nice timeline man seeing it from stock to lt front and back is very nice

[AZNPG]

got any pics of the engine cage i'm about to make one for my truck

[brock]

damn good job on paint... interested in painting my 05s black?

[cabbage]

10/04/2006 Installed bedsides
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/061004%20bedsides1.jpg

http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/061004%20bedsides2.jpg

12/21/2006 Engine cage (brace?)
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/061221%20enginecage.jpg

Steering
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/061221%20steering.jpg

12/22/2006 Bumper
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/061222%20bumper1.jpg

http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/061222%20bumper2.jpg

[cabbage]

1/04/2007 Steve emails me (im in Taiwan) says Truck broke down when he was just about to leave Nevada...
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070104%20tow.jpg

1/05/2007 And this is what broke, more damage to the gears and e-locker too.
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070105%20axle.jpg

1/25/2007 We replaced the whole axle with a non TRD open diff ($20 bucks, thanks Dan!)
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070125%20axle.jpg

[cabbage]

2/03/2007 Camping at Pismo, hit something hard alright :rolleyes: my guess is it came down nose first... Lost a corner light, grill popped out, radiator bent (no coolent left)... No one on the central coast had a radiator in stock, so we drove back to Santa Maria (20 mins away), took my radiator out of my work truck, and went back out to get the Red truck home...
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070203%20radiator.jpg

2/25/2007 Found some used Fox bypasses in LA on Race-Dezert
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070225%20bypass.jpg

3/17/2007 Steve made a new radiator support because the whole front clip is bent from 2/03
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070317%20radiator%20support.jpg

3/22/2007 Because the bypasses were 16" travel, we had to raise the old shock hoop.
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070322%20bypass.jpg

3/23/2007 Finished radiator/grill bar
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070323%20radiator%20bar.jpg

Finally mounted skid plate
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070323%20skid.jpg

[cabbage]

3/28/2007 Ocotillo
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070328%20ocotillo.jpg

4/12/2007 Shackle bolt broke, limped out of Pismo with half a shackle
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070412%20shackle1.jpg

http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070412%20shackle2.jpg

5/20/2007 Drivers side ball joint bolts broke, limped out of Pismo

6/14/2007 Bought some used 14" travel dual rate coilovers off race-dezert
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070614%20coilovers.jpg

6/17/2007 Found Exahust leak... fairly new, didnt notice the airplane noise till today
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070617%20exhaust.jpg

6/23/2007 Drivers side wheel studs (4 out of 6) snapped on the freeway :rolleyes: . Didnt snap while at the dunes the whole day, tire rolled 1/2 mile down the 101, no one hit or injured...
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070623%20studs.jpg

[AZNPG]

damn i need to make a timeline for my truck now after seeing urs. its very nice seeing it go through the build up

[Baja Belk]

Uhhh...no offense, but with your guys' luck are you sure you want to go racing in Mexico?? :confused:

[cabbage]

Uhhh...no offense, but with your guys' luck are you sure you want to go racing in Mexico?? :confused:

Haha! Well.. shes not always broken... She has her good days...

[socalmoto]

Dont know if I want to try painting black just yet. Let me paint this truck one more time and we'll see if it comes out really nice.

Although that engine brace looks cheesy, (which it is) it did stop the frame from tweaking anymore. Its also bolted in at the top of the shock mounts. I should be getting the new engine brace mocked up in about a week.

[CentralCoastTaco99]

bump. update?

[cabbage]

bump. update?

Funny you asked! We JUST got the racing seats in today!! About to get the new A-arms cut out tomorrow!

[shorty2305]

Someone is gonna die in this truck.....just a guess. Bitchin seein rigs that get pushed to their limits and beyond.

[rufio]

get it build it break it fix it!

[shorty2305]

get it build it break it fix it!

That is how it goes, unfortunately the "get it", the "build it" and the "fix it" parts are all very very expensive. Well worth the money i suppose.:D

[GreenTaco]

Do you have any more pictures of the front shock mounts and engine cage? Any of the new radiator support/core support?

[Factor]

I'll be doing roll cage/engine cage after the end of this season hopefully. I wouldn't mind see your guys layout.

[cabbage]

Someone is gonna die in this truck.....just a guess. Bitchin seein rigs that get pushed to their limits and beyond.

Thanks Buddy! At least I'll die doing something I love :)

Back to photos..
7/09/07 Interior removed
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070709%20cab.jpg

7/10/07 Bumps arrive
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070710%20bumps.jpg

7/25/07 Cage
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070725%20cage.jpg

7/30/07 Cage
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070730%20cage1.jpg

http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070730%20cage2.jpg

http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070730%20cage3.jpg

http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070730%20cage4.jpg

7/30/07 Removing front clip
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070730%20front%20clip.jpg

[cabbage]

Do you have any more pictures of the front shock mounts and engine cage? Any of the new radiator support/core support?

We're redoing it, but hopefully I'll have pics of the new configuration up soon!

[miguelitro]

We're redoing it, but hopefully I'll have pics of the new configuration up soon!

i need to see those pics too as my frotn end is falling off:D

[smitty_runner]

i need to see those pics too as my frotn end is falling off:D

i want to see the carnage u said u would post some pics up

[miguelitro]

i want to see the carnage u said u would post some pics up

yeah , i need to get a camera and the time to start disassembling it cleaning it up and putting on the camburg kit.
But I'll get some pics, dinna worry
Mike

[cabbage]

070731 Rear view mirror
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070731rearmirror.jpg

070801 Cage
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070801cage1.jpg

http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070801cage2.jpg

http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070801cage3.jpg

[socalmoto]

Sorry to all the guys that have been following the build and the large break in time for more news. Somehow at the beginning of summer I planned on doing a bunch of stuff between Aug 6-20. Like 2 camping trips, a 4 day backpacking trip through yosemite, a bachelor party, and a wedding (not mine). So nothing happened on the truck. I got back last sunday and started work again.

To all the skeptics about fitting the 14" . . . you were right. The tc upper arm doesn't have enough clearance at full droop to allow the coil spring to fit through it. So we pulled the tc kit and I am building the new system. We have decided to keep the 4wd, and because of this there was a clearance issue of mounting the shock as close to the tire as I wanted. So to do this, we will be using a 12" shock with a 2/3 advantage. I am aiming to get 16-18 inches of travel.

The tc kit has the front axleshaft pointing back 1.5" to allow the tire to fit into the front wheel well. Due to this angle, the cv binds on down travel quicker. Since we have DON'T have wheel wells, I am moving the suspension forward 2" and out 0.5" (0.5" out to hit the max track width of 78" as allowed by Score). I am moving it forward 2" instead of 1.5" because at full bump with tc we are hitting the cab with a 33" tire, so Im just making more room for more up travel and possibly running 35's.

[Tanto]

Good thing you can fab on your own with the way that truck apparently gets it on. I'm interested in the front framerail truss...does it go underneath the engine block between the LCA mounts as well?

Miguel....I see you finally decided to pop the cherry and go LT! But Camburg??? j/k :D

[socalmoto]

To answer Tanto's question about the truss. I'll have cabbage post a pic of the bottom of it later. The problem was the frame was bending (the top of the frame is pointing inward some). If you look at a stock crossmember, the top and bottom are made of very thin steel with holes cut it them. But to stop the frame from bending the metal on the top and bottom need to be the thickest part. So I added a 1/4" plate to the top and bottom. And the frame stopped bending. But we still put in an engine cage for more strength.

[7sx_Tacoma]

have you cheked out the new camburg racing kit...should be perfect for 7 open trucks

[miguelitro]

Miguel....I see you finally decided to pop the cherry and go LT! But Camburg??? j/k :D

Ryan, did my research, got the kit i wanted when it was being sold here for a good price. besides everybody runs TC.

Cabbage- this build is really going good and i;m happy to see that you are successfully addressing many of the issues us tacoma drivers have. Hope to see this thing in person, in the dirt, or in baja:D

[Kamr0n]

:kewl:

[cabbage]

More photos! Also, great news! My new camera is about to arrive!! Not having a camera for the past few months has been horrible... Photos are like my memory, if I dont take them, I forget things so easily :rolleyes:

8/30/2007 Unfinished spindle
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070830spindle1.jpg

http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070830spindle2.jpg

Shock mounts removed, frame cleared
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070830frame.jpg

Front framerail truss (bottom)
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070830frame2.jpg

[cabbage]

have you cheked out the new camburg racing kit...should be perfect for 7 open trucks

We have but decided to just make our own.

[rufio]

More photos! Also, great news! My new camera is about to arrive!! Not having a camera for the past few months has been horrible... Photos are like my memory, if I dont take them, I forget things so easily :rolleyes:

8/30/2007 Unfinished spindle
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070830spindle1.jpg

http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070830spindle2.jpg

Shock mounts removed, frame cleared
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070830frame.jpg

Front framerail truss (bottom)
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070830frame2.jpg

QUESTION!

i know people hate on the 5 lugs but i'm just seeking some info. how hard was it to remove your front shock mounts and how are you going to make them stronger when you weld them back on?

also, if say a person was to do that to their 5 lug front end and replace it with a prerunner set of front shock mounts, would it be possible to do that and if so, to equip the TC long travel kit for the prerunners in the front?

just need that knowledge man!

trucks looking good by the way!

[socalmoto]

Sorry Rufio, Ive never worked on a 5 lug taco. I dont know where the mounting points are or how its all setup so I couldnt answer that. And we are not welding the bucket back in. We are going to run tubing through the firewall and make shock mounts onto the tubing.

Now if you were to try to reweld the bucket back in, I would suggest adding extra gussets between the bucket and the frame. That way you have extra protection if a weld breaks. We did end out blowing out the stock shock mount. We remade them with tubing and then connected the tubing to the stock bucket with gussets. It worked well.

[AllJumpStyle]

QUESTION!

i know people hate on the 5 lugs but i'm just seeking some info. how hard was it to remove your front shock mounts and how are you going to make them stronger when you weld them back on?

also, if say a person was to do that to their 5 lug front end and replace it with a prerunner set of front shock mounts, would it be possible to do that and if so, to equip the TC long travel kit for the prerunners in the front?

just need that knowledge man!

trucks looking good by the way!

Who hates on the 5-lugs? Front buckets are easy to remove if your clever with a cutoff wheel and grinder. Most people without engine cages run hoops that look like an upside down U and then mount the shocks to them with tabs. Real easy to make.

[cabbage]

8/30/2007
Bending plating
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070830arm1.jpg

Welding arm
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070830arm2.jpg

9/05/2007
Lower control arms
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070905arms.jpg

Seats
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070905seats.jpg

9/06/2007
Mounted Lower control arm
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070906arm.jpg

[shorty2305]

Just curious, since you're not copying anyones design, How do you make sure to get the geometry the same when making new upper and lower arms?

Lower arms look good. can't wait to see it done!

[socalmoto]

I drew the pieces for the lower arms in solidworks and had them cut out on a cnc plasma cutter, so the shapes are the exactly the same. I just hit and shaped the 1/4" pieces with a big hammer and made it fit to the vertical pieces. That took some time. And before welding I did a lot of measuring between the two arms to make sure all dimensions were the same. And then the funny part is that one of the arms did end up warping a little so the hiems were off by a quarter inch. But it wasnt critical since the hiems have a 9 degree misalignment and I made new mounting brackets.

The upper arms are going to be made of straight 1.25" tubing and will be easy to copy from side to side. Good question though.

[shorty2305]

How about the geometry from upper control arm to the lower? Do you just measure off of the old TC arms and extend it out further to get the proper geometry? I'm just trying to imagine building something from scratch and it seems that there are a lot of little details that could be changed to improve/ worsen the performance besides just the length of the arms. Has anyone ever messed with the caster at all when building their own custom front suspension. I imagine you could get your truck to handle better through whoops if you had your upper arms slanted slightly upward toward the front a couple degrees. That way it follows the impact of whatever it is your plowing into at high speeds. Whether my logic on that is correct or not, i'm not really sure. But it's something to think about. If your going to do it custom, you might as well ask around to see about the little things like that that make a difference.

[AllJumpStyle]

If you know what you're doing (sounds like they do) you can build whatever geometry you want into your arms. And yes people do usually angle the upper arm back. This causes caster to increase as the suspension approaches bump. Another desirable trait might be slight toe in at bump to improve tracking.

Once the lower arm is set up it is easy to get the correct numbers by building the upper arm around it. Once you get something that cycles clean, you build a jig for it and then build your upper arms. At least that's how I would do it.

[socalmoto]

Yeah what alljumpstyle said. The geometry I chose to get more travel was to align the cv so that it can travel more before binding. If the cv's are setup inline and the axle shafts dont plunge into/out of the cv through the travel, they can have an angle of 32 degrees. The tc kit maxes out the cv at 19 deg because its misaligned. I have to keep the track width at 78" to run in Score so I could only increase the arm length by 0.5" (backspacing on our rims allows this, check your rims before building to make sure how much you can lengthen). I have the lower arms bent so that the cv wont hit at full droop.

Once I get the shock mounted, I just have to build the upper arm around it. Of course I will have to design the length of the arm for camber issues through travel and angle the spindle. If I want the vehicle to track (drive in a straight line when I let go of the steering wheel) then I need the top of the spindle pointed forward. It would be better to have the suspension travel like the front of dirt bike to absorb bumps, but we wouldnt be able to let go the wheel. There may be ways to do it, but it would probably need an offset spindle or something.

[CentralCoastTaco99]

just spool the front and drive it in 4wd. it will WANT to go straight, whether your hands are on the wheel or not, and regardless of your spindles! (i know, i'm a genius, you can thank me later) haha

[cabbage]

just spool the front and drive it in 4wd. it will WANT to go straight, whether your hands are on the wheel or not, and regardless of your spindles! (i know, i'm a genius, you can thank me later) haha

Naw, I've actually been there done that in my old 4runner... CV's dont like spools in the front...

[CentralCoastTaco99]

psh, you're no fun. do it the hard way and build everything into the suspension to make it go straight. my way would be so much cooler! :2cents: lol

[OOwballer]

Once I get the shock mounted, I just have to build the upper arm around it. Of course I will have to design the length of the arm for camber issues through travel and angle the spindle. If I want the vehicle to track (drive in a straight line when I let go of the steering wheel) then I need the top of the spindle pointed forward. It would be better to have the suspension travel like the front of dirt bike to absorb bumps, but we wouldnt be able to let go the wheel. There may be ways to do it, but it would probably need an offset spindle or something.


i think you have your caster angle's mixed up, you may want to go check into that before you go building a suspension to race on.

[AllJumpStyle]

If I want the vehicle to track (drive in a straight line when I let go of the steering wheel) then I need the top of the spindle pointed forward. It would be better to have the suspension travel like the front of dirt bike to absorb bumps, but we wouldnt be able to let go the wheel. There may be ways to do it, but it would probably need an offset spindle or something.
Yea, you have your caster backwards. With the spindle angled back a little at the top, you gain caster which improves straightline tracking (can get twitchy at higher speeds though). You figure out the bumpsteer yet? Any numbers?

[socalmoto]

Yeah you guys are right. That was the way I was thinking of it I was sure of it. But a friend that works at toyota (yes you chris if you read this), convinced me that the top of the spindle had to be more forward so that it works like the front wheel on a shopping cart. Well its a good thing you guys spoke up, cause I dont think I would have enough adjustment in the upper arm to fix that after it was welded in.

I dont about the steering yet. Everyone agrees that the 4x4 taco's steering suck to begin with. But I'll try to get up to cal poly this week so I look at angles using solidworks and see what I can do about the bumpsteer. I wont be able to get rid of it, but I'll see how good I can get it.

[asphaltsucks]

Don't forget about the ackerman angle. There is alot more to supsension design than castor and cambor.

[Dezert00taco]

I dont about the steering yet. Everyone agrees that the 4x4 taco's steering suck to begin with. But I'll try to get up to cal poly this week so I look at angles using solidworks and see what I can do about the bumpsteer. I wont be able to get rid of it, but I'll see how good I can get it.

you can get your truck to steer however you want just get rid of the rack and do something like this..
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/slothdogg/P1010013-3.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/slothdogg/P1010014-1.jpg

[socalmoto]

There IS more to suspension than just camber and caster. But the upper control is only there to control the camber and aide in caster angle . . . and keep the tire from flopping around when we hit a rock. The ackerman steering geometry takes into account dimensions that are in the suspension, but does not need anything from the suspension components to achieve it. Designing the steering around the suspension is the way to stop tire scrub during a turn. Some equations I have will let me get rid of tire scrub by designing the steering bracket on the spindle to a certain length and angle.

The problem with bump steer on tacomas is that the pivot point for the steering rack is at the same vertical height as the lower control arm frame mount. And unless the steering bracket on the spindle is at the same height as the lower control mount on the spindle, there WILL be bump steer. The system you've shown still has the steering pivot point on the frame at the same height as the lca. If you could reverse the steering pivot and frame pivot somehow, then you would raise the steering pivot location. And then the steering bracket on the spindle can be above the lca. Unfortunately I dont think cabbage wants to drop even more money modifying the frame and putting in a new steering box . . . . at least not yet. But thanks for the photo, because a system like that could raise the steering pivot and still clear the bulky front diff and front driveshaft. Ive hitting my head on the walls trying to figure out how to get around that stuff.

[CentralCoastTaco99]

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a122/CentralCoastTaco99/IMG_5991.jpg
this would be cool too...

[AZNPG]

damn this is gonna be a nice build up thread

[socalmoto]

That was the idea I was trying to workout. I think they had to modify the cross member to add clearance to get that to fit. And i didn't want change the cross member too much since I still have the front diff and steering rack bolted onto it. But after we get the truck running, if there is too much bump steer or we blow out the rack, then I will try something. But thanks for all ideas.

[socalmoto]

Has anyone run dual rates? Since we are using a single coilover in the front. We were going to use dual rates to act like a bypass . . . sort of. If we hit the 18" of wheel travel, I wanted to have 11" of up travel and 7" of down travel from ride height. I also wanted to have a total of 10" of travel with the low spring rate, 4" of travel with the higher rate, and the last 4" of travel with the higher spring rate and the bump stop.

After a lot of math using the standard eibach springs (I dont want to custom order) I found that the only combo that would satisfy all these requirements was to run an 18" 700lb and a 10" 250lb. Preloading 2" would give the right spring height, the springs will fit on the coilover with a little bit of force, and the springs wont fully compress before the shock does. The effective rate would be 184 lb/in for 10" then switch to 700lb. The 700lb is a good rate for the 6 cylinder with 4x4. Has anyone run a dual rate setup like this where the rates are so different?

[Jazz124]

Just curious, are you selling the TC kit you took off? I might be interested.

[cabbage]

Just curious, are you selling the TC kit you took off? I might be interested.

Yes it is for sale, but we have a friends friend that is planning on buying the kit from us. But if it falls through we'll let you know.

[prospectator]

The only problem with that design is how do you plan on valving the shocks? When your spring rate quadruples the rebound dampening that was sufficient for 184 lbs/in will be insufficient for 700. This will get complicated to valve. You would be better off to run the C/O and a bypass. Then use the bypass to adjust for the last 4" of bump travel. Eliminating the need for a huge rate change. I know this gets expensive. Another option may be to run a hydro bump. Trying to get the C/O to do everything will be very difficult. The hydro bump is easy to adjust.

If you adjust the rebound valving for the 700 lb rate it would be terrible slow to react to 184 lbs. This would basically eliminate some of your travel. Due to the fact it won't completely cycle because the rebound for 14" of your travel will be too slow.

This is just my opinion feel free to disagree.

[socalmoto]

Thanks for your opinion. I was wondering if anyone would even suggest something. We are running a hydro bump stop for the last 4" of travel. The 700 lb rate would kick in 4" before and during the bump stop (total 8" of 700lb travel). I didn't want to run a bypasses because it was going to be very difficult to run 2" tubing past the stock brake assist and the engine and make room for two shock mounts. And replacing the stock brakes and buying bypasses would be getting very expensive as you stated. You'll see how tight the fit is when cabbage stops being lazy and posts some pics.

You did bring up a very good point about the rebound and I didn't even think about how much it would affect the ride quality. It might work out to have the rebound quick at first to get away from full bump, and then slow down for the last half of travel to eliminate the kicking effect. But I could be wrong cause Ive never tried a dual rate spring setup up or even a two stage rebound.

[cabbage]

Busy is not Lazy.

9/14/07 Everything tacked in place. That is not the final upper shock mount.

We are so keeping the Kirkland high performance coolant overflow tank
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070914bump1.jpg

Different angle.. its hard to bounce flash when you dont have anything over your head... :rolleyes:
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070914bump2.jpg

[CentralCoastTaco99]

bump for an update... been almost a month guys!

[cabbage]

A month already! Lets see.. not much going on. We actually did more tonight than the past few weeks!

9/22/07 Finished welding front shock hoop into cage & bump cans.
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070922front1.jpg

10/18/07 Spindle
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/071018truck1.jpg

Removed radiator and old support bar.
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/071018truck2.jpg

Fitting front body panels back on
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/071018truck3.jpg

Hopefully mount everything tomorrow
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/071018truck4.jpg

[CentralCoastTaco99]

so where did you get the center piece for you're spindles...?

[AZNPG]

looks good man

[cabbage]

so where did you get the center piece for you're spindles...?

http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/070820spindle.jpg

looks good man

Thanks!!

Mounted the fuse box last night. Almost there!

http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/071021fuse.jpg

Lets see whats left to do by this weekend for Glamis... mount Air Box and Grill, hook up spindles, get shocks and air bumps charged, put back stock seats (dont have enough time to mount the racing seats)... Think thats about it! Almost there guys!! :D

[CentralCoastTaco99]

well thats a nice picture of the center piece, but where did you get it? lol truck is definitely looking good!

[AllJumpStyle]

I'm going to go ahead and guess he got it from a stock spindle? Lol.

[cabbage]

Haha... Yeah... its the stock spindle/hub, just modified a bit. Steve sent me the pic and said to just post it, but now everyone knows Steve! HA

[CentralCoastTaco99]

so you basically just cut the shit off of a stock spindle so you just have the hub peice..? genius.... lol

[cabbage]

so you basically just cut the shit off of a stock spindle so you just have the hub peice..? genius.... lol


Well.. what else would you do when you dont have time and have a bunch of spare spindles lying around?

[BruceTS]

Dang Milton now how did I miss this thread?????

Nice work so far.......

[devinsixtyseven]

The geometry I chose to get more travel was to align the cv so that it can travel more before binding. If the cv's are setup inline and the axle shafts dont plunge into/out of the cv through the travel, they can have an angle of 32 degrees. The tc kit maxes out the cv at 19 deg because its misaligned. I have to keep the track width at 78" to run in Score so I could only increase the arm length by 0.5" (backspacing on our rims allows this, check your rims before building to make sure how much you can lengthen). I have the lower arms bent so that the cv wont hit at full droop.Does the Chaos kit follow the stock geometry, except for moving the lower joint outward?

In other words, does the stock LBJ location misalign the CV joint?

[socalmoto]

Does the Chaos kit follow the stock geometry, except for moving the lower joint outward?

In other words, does the stock LBJ location misalign the CV joint?

Yes that is correct. The total chaos kit does not move the cv forward. The reason is so that the tire will stay centered in the wheel well. Cause theres no reason for the extra travel if the tires wont fit.

I believe the reason that there is a misalignment in the stock suspension was that the front diff had to be pushed forward to clear the front of the tranny, and they didnt want the front tires any further forward for wheelbase reasons. But since the stock suspension isnt made for extreme offroading, they pulled as much travel as they wanted out of it and the misalignment didnt matter.

[BruceTS]

strange you were having problems with axle bind after 19 degrees, I'm running 24 degrees with no bind, the mis-alignment is only a few degrees, the funny part is I never paid attention to it til i read this thread, since it didn't give me any issues. I'll have to check the Tundra axle again, I only measured 25 degrees max angle.

BTW nice fab work

[socalmoto]

strange you were having problems with axle bind after 19 degrees, I'm running 24 degrees with no bind, the mis-alignment is only a few degrees, the funny part is I never paid attention to it til i read this thread, since it didn't give me any issues. I'll have to check the Tundra axle again, I only measured 25 degrees max angle.

BTW nice fab work

Really?!! I might be off a few degrees because of slopped cement. But turning the tire all the way at full droop, I could only measure a max of 19 deg (from horizontal) off the axleshaft. I turned the tire at full droop because we would have to strap the suspension where the cvs bind regardless of tire angle.

Me and cabbage found the max angle with the axle shafts and cvs off the truck so we could max it out in the neutral position. A friend designed the velocity 4x4 taco kit and he also told me that they can max to 32 deg. But you have to keep the axle shafts in the neutral position in the cvs. If you play with it off the truck, you can feel where the neutral spot is. It feels like youre pulling the axle shaft out of the cv a little, but it will free up travel.

Also when looking at the pass side, if the tires are turned to the left, you can see that the axle shaft angle (from viewing above) is quite a bit since the axle shaft was already at a rearward angle. And when the tire is turned to the right, the axle shaft is at less of an angle. Centering the axle shaft will make the angles the same (regardless of left or right) and lessen the angle when the tires are turned to the left. So the angle from horizontal will not be 32 on our suspension, but we hope to pull maybe 26 or so, which will translates to about 2 in more of down travel. And add 2-3 in of uptravel and hopefully we hit the 16-18" travel. Sorry this was so long, but schooling makes me want to cover all my bases in everything I write. But ask if any of it was unclear or wrong.

[BruceTS]

I fully understood all you have said. When you did your testing did you do it with the CV boots off? the joints really don't like much more than 25 degrees while rotating. Yes if the axle didn't spin you can get more angle, but this isn't useable and could cause joint failure. Did you get a chance to test at full compression yet? Just curious if the axle shaft compresses all the way into the CV's if not you can gain quite a bit of uptravel, easily getting the 16 to 18" figures.

[socalmoto]

I wasnt asking if you understood what I was pointing out, but anyone who stumbled onto the thread. Sorry for the misunderstanding. We did not remove the boots, but did hold the cvs with the axle shaft at about 32 deg, and were able to spin the assembly without any binding. And I tried to build the suspension so that the shafts wont plunge in or out of the cvs. So I was hoping on gaining more up travel. When we postioned the suspension at full comp with the tires on, we only had a few inches of ground clearance. So unless we run 35's (might be a possibility) then we cant go too much higher without running the cross member into the ground at full comp. But more up travel is a good way to gain travel.

[shorty2305]

When building your lower arms, how did you secure the heims in there?

Have you guys finished this yet?

[CentralCoastTaco99]

my guess is a tube adapter, or "bung". just a machined piece of steel thats already threaded for your heim that you weld in to your material. :2cents: i dont really know of any other way unless your using tubing and thread it yourself...

[CentralCoastTaco99]

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a122/CentralCoastTaco99/t_2297.jpg

pretty nice piece. Light Racing makes those. they also make round ones as well with the same threaded design with the pinch bolt.

[shorty2305]

i had never seen the square bungs before. That's why i was curious. thanks

[socalmoto]

Yeah CCT99 was right, we just used a regular tubing bung. But we had to modify it to work with boxed arms we made. We would have used the square ones, but the cost is quite a bit more. I'll post pics later of what we did.

We actually bolted just about everything onto the truck tonight. The ride height was really low, so we have to crank on the coils tomorrow. And the bumpsteer is pretty damn bad . . . . yeah. We're gonna try to drive it this weekend and deal with the steering later. The check list is bleed the brakes, put on intake, maybe charcoal canister, fill radiator, and fire it up.

[CentralCoastTaco99]

where is the bumpsteer most noticeable? does it get really crazy at bump, or droop, or just all around sucks? if its still pretty straight between ride height and bump, you should be fine to drive it for a little while. at least at droop you dont have as much weight on it, so if the tires get all pigeon toed they can drag a bit easier. :2cents:

did you guys have custom shafts made or what? i know your using the tundra CV's, but with extended shafts im assuming? curious to see that too... maybe cause some motivation :D

[AllJumpStyle]

Did you get that filter to work?

[socalmoto]

Yeah we got the filter on, but we'll probably redo it with a different sized inlet on the filter. The MAF sensor housing has a 3 in ID inlet, and the filter is only about a 2 in ID or so. So we had to buy a step down abs plumbing pipe and glue it on. Its kind of restrictive, but it should work for now.

The bump steer was really bad on the bump side. So we already cut and modified the steering arm. There's still bump steer but the angle is almost half of what it was. And we didn't get an extended axle shaft, we actually just made a custom spacer. It limits the axle shaft from going into the hub by about an 1/8" and the dust seal on the back still works. The spacer slides onto the axle shaft snub that goes into the hub, and fits onto of the toyota spacer thats inside of the spindle. Its complicated, so I will try to get pictures of it tomorrow. But I actually made the spacer out of a big washer and it was a perfect fit.

[AZNPG]

show us some pics of the truck man we want to see it haha

[socalmoto]

Here are a couple pics I have on my computer. I will try to get milton over tomorrow to snap some better pics and maybe test drive it down the street.

Heres the spacer
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_1600.jpg

http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_9605.jpg

[shorty2305]

that is a massive skid plate!! You could bump right over a honda civic with that thing!:D

[cabbage]

Alright... So I've been lazy...

11/14/07
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/071114pass.jpg

11/19/07 Filter in place
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/071119filter.jpg

11/19/07 Lower view
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/071119pass.jpg

We're gonna run her again tonight?! Give me a call....

[AZNPG]

looks very good man. man i need to work on my truck more often

[socalmoto]

We just got done test driving the truck up and down the street. The brakes work fine and our turning radius isnt that bad either. It seems to be only a couple feet wider than with the tc kit. The track width right now is about 80" wide. The steering is pretty sloppy though. We tried to align it ourselves using measuring tape, but the steering doesnt center itself and the tires squeal a little when turning.

We'll get a photo looking at the front of the truck from further away later. It does look pretty badass. You can see the massive coilovers through where the headlights should be.

[AllJumpStyle]

:)

[socalmoto]

Hows your truck running jumpstyle?

[AllJumpStyle]

Lol, well it is running. I ditched the thermostat though. They're overrated :D

[brock]

ever thought about running the filter int he cab? ive noticed some race trucks doign this alot. and if it isnt a DD and is goign to see the dirt alot, why not?

[socalmoto]

We have thought about putting the intake in the cab, but decided against it for now/always. Its not a DD, but it will still be driven on the street. And the intake inside the cab will probably be loud as hell, especially with a sc. Some people might not care about the noise, but I like to talk about politics and my feelings when driving haha. I am going to build a splash guard to cover the filter though, so hopefully that will help keep it clean.

We havent taken any photos from the front yet cause I went riding in glamis over the weekend, but I will try to do it tomorrow morning before I leave for school.

[marnes2986]

Get-ir-done :D

[brock]

nothing better than talking politics while driving.

[socalmoto]

Alright i got the photos before I left for school but didnt have time to upload. So here they are.

Heres how the spacer actually sits in the spindle. It closes the gap on the dust seal, so there shouldnt be any dust in the bearings . . . ever. You can also see the steering arm moved down an inch. Its all 1/4" steel plate and theres about 8 inches of weld at the cut.
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_9605.jpg

Heres looking at the coilover through the headlight opening.
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_9602.jpg

And the front end.
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_9601.jpg

And when we drove it to a field nearby to test it, we ran over a civic. And it only dented the skidplate on the bottom driver side corner hahahhah

[AZNPG]

looks nice man. get the truck finished up so u can take it out to the barstow run in december14-15

[CentralCoastTaco99]

bump.

[socalmoto]

Not much has happened since the last photos, just a few small test runs. I just finished my reports and finals last week so the build should pick up again. But damn its cold working outside now. We did test run in a nearby field a couple of times. The truck and suspension were working fine, but the bumpsteer is a problem. In the dirt its acceptable, but on the street it sucks. So Im relocating the lower control arm frame mounting brackets to try to reduce the effects even more.

We also tried to test the truck at pismo, but when we went out there a sensor was bad and we could only hit the whoops in the first opening at about 35 mph. If I gave it more than 1/2 throttle the engine would bog and if I stomp the throttle fast, the engine would almost die. So we tried cleaning the MAF sensor with brake clean and took it for a second run. The engine was still sucking so we started heading back to the trailer, but on the way back the hood flew up into the windshield. It turns out someone didnt put the hood pins back in (it wasnt me and it wasnt milton). But the windshield didnt crack and the roof didnt cave in, so it wasnt horrible. Im gonna take this time to finally put in an engine crossover brace and paint all the metal work. Sorry, no barstow trip.

http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_9713.jpg

http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_9716.jpg

[brock]

that sucks... i cant wait to go up to pismo... aiming for may.

[AllJumpStyle]

Damn, tough luck. I want to go to Pismo now too, looked like no one was out there. Maybe this weekend :)

[AZNPG]

damn that sucks but atleast ur roof and windshield didn't get fucked up

[marnes2986]

man sux about what happened

Looks like youre hauling with a Tundra. Good. Keep it in the family lol

[CentralCoastTaco99]

The truck and suspension were working fine, but the bumpsteer is a problem. In the dirt its acceptable, but on the street it sucks. So Im relocating the lower control arm frame mounting brackets to try to reduce the effects even more.

wont relocating the LCA frame mounts fuck up all the planning you guys did to minimize CV plunge though?

[AllJumpStyle]

You should be relocating the steering arm on the spindle, not the lower arm, right?

[socalmoto]

CCT99 - When I designed the suspension I was aiming for no cv plunge, but didnt get zero plunge. The cv plunge was somewhere around 1/8-1/4 inch. Im relocating the lca mounts so that it shouldnt screw up the plunge very much.

Jumpsytyle - I did move the lca mounts and the steering arm on the spindle. The biggest reason for bumpsteer on tacos is that the inner tie rod (inside pivot point of the steering) is almost outboard of the frame. Since the lca mounts are more inboard on the frame, there is a difference in length between the steering and the lca, and they move through different arcs. When I designed the suspension to have minimal cv plunge I placed the lca mounts inboard of the cv, causing there to be even more difference in length. I didnt think the bumpsteer would bother us that much, but I was wrong. So now I am moving the lca mounts out more and the steering arm on the spindle to make the difference in lengths less. I never measured the bumpsteer on the tc kit, so I dont know what an okay amount is. But hopefully this will help.

[AllJumpStyle]

Hmm, it seems you could closer match the lengths if you moved the steering arm out, but I guess the tire could be in the way. Did you draw the entire thing out in solidworks? Steering as well as the arms? And I know you've seen this before, but Dan may be able to give you some good advice.

http://www.desertrides.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4876

Haven't heard or seen him around lately though.

[socalmoto]

[QUOTE=AllJumpStyle;1085577]Hmm, it seems you could closer match the lengths if you moved the steering arm out, but I guess the tire could be in the way. Did you draw the entire thing out in solidworks? Steering as well as the arms? [/qoute]

I didnt mention it that well in my post, but I am also moving the steering arm. I am going to move it out towards the tire more, but there is only an inch at most that I can move it out before it contacts the rotor. And I dont want to get it too close to the rotor because things WILL flex. Even with moving the arm out another inch, there is still going to be about a 1.5" length difference so I cant get rid of the bumpsteer. And no, I did not build the steering in solidworks. I knew there would be bumpsteer, but without any values of the tire angle change, I wouldnt know what is exceptable.


[QUOTE=AllJumpStyle;1085577]And I know you've seen this before, but Dan may be able to give you some good advice.

http://www.desertrides.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4876

Haven't heard or seen him around lately though.[/qoute]

I have seen his build thread, and his truck in person. The funny thing is that I was looking at his thread during a lab at poly and showed my lab partner what a badass truck it was, and my lab partner was dan. hahahah So I have talked with him a lot about what to do and he just said unless we want to spend a lot of time and money building a new steering rack and crossmember, just except the bumpsteer and try to make it less. He is going to try to come over to my place this week to look at the truck and maybe help finally mount the racing seats.

[Shauneth]

ITs kinda hard to close the hood when there is an oil can in the way...Sorry bad line from Tommy Boy...
http://srv0106-09.oak1.imeem.com/g/i/8367562cada0d0e97c2ef604e4871b3b.jpg

[socalmoto]

Heres the new lca mounts. I made them with a base plate so I could mock them up on the truck, then weld them off the truck, and weld the base plates back to the frame. It worked pretty damn well since welding the relatively open straight welds of the base plate was extremely easy. I also added some gussets onto them since they hang lower than the original design and might hit the ground at some point.
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_9639.jpg
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_9640.jpghttp://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_9653.jpg

I also put in an engine cross brace, pulled the engine, and was welding it in when it started raining. So now I have to play the waiting game until I can start back up. Sorry no photos.

[Shauneth]

Im assunimg that the allignment is just going to be done by using the heims and not having to mess with the mounts. Truck looks sick, keep the pics coming...

[socalmoto]

Im assunimg that the allignment is just going to be done by using the heims and not having to mess with the mounts. Truck looks sick, keep the pics coming...

Thanks. And yes all adjustments are through the heims. Its pretty hard to cut a slot without a mill. Also now we can remove the lower control arm without having to pull the cv or steering rack since the shorter bolt clears both when being pulled out.

The rain actually stopped today so I was able to weld. I finished welding in the cross brace, added gussets, and finished a lot of sections I wasnt able to reach with the engine in. I was able to shoot a couple coats of steel-it paint. And if the weather holds out, Im gonna add a few more before putting the engine back in.

Some tig welds
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_9658.jpg

Close fit to the firewall makes it easy to take out the supercharger and work on the rear of the engine.
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_9686.jpg

Although the cross brace isnt directly over the engine, its halfway between the shock mount and the dash tube, cutting down on a lot of possible deflection.
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_9685.jpg

Also added a tube from the bumpstop to the frame.
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_9688.jpg

The shock tube supports the engine mount and vice versa.
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_9676.jpg
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_9675.jpg

[socalmoto]

Painting. Late post
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_9663.jpg

I moved the charcoal canister to the passenger side so that everything looks cleaner. I didnt even have to lengthen any wires, just cut the protective wrap and run the wires to the other side.
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_9679.jpg
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_9682.jpg

[AZNPG]

looks good man got any close up pix of how you got your fenders mounted to the engine cage cause i'm planning on doing an engine cage for my truck and can't fgure out ow to mount the fenders to the cage

[socalmoto]

looks good man got any close up pix of how you got your fenders mounted to the engine cage cause i'm planning on doing an engine cage for my truck and can't fgure out ow to mount the fenders to the cage

We used the dzus fastners. And just built supports out of plate steel to move the fastners to the location we needed.
http://polyperformance.com/shop/product.php?productid=1309&cat=436&page=1

http://srv0106-08.oak1.imeem.com/g/16ca31ac8213fb3833efca3532383cbc.jpg
http://srv0106-08.oak1.imeem.com/g/365bd446c7fe6169d4ef9eb95dbc200d.jpg
http://srv0106-08.oak1.imeem.com/g/a0a3bed43c8d0165e9890a151bc0f984.jpg

[AZNPG]

ok cool thanks man

[socalmoto]

I finished with the spindle steering arms today and got the passenger side suspension on. I cycled the susp. and theres hardly any bumpsteer now. I'll try to get some pics of the driver side susp at bump and droop so everyone can see the camber and bump steer.

Relocated steering arm
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_9759.jpg

New spindle against stock spindle
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_9839.jpg

Reinforced upper arm
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_9754.jpg

[K.Patel]

Do you want to sell your stock spindles with gussets?

[socalmoto]

I took pictures of the bump, ride height and droop but it was on milton's camera and he left for el centro, so NO PICS FOR YOU! We did drive the truck out to a nearby field and everything seems good. I cleaned the MAF sensor and the engine didnt bog like the last time out so I guess thats fixed. A friend helped me knock out the hood and the topside doesnt even seem that bad (except for missing paint in a couple areas). The bumpsteer wasnt noticeable at all this time out. Steering was also very responsive, and there is almost no tire scrub when turning. The little tire scrub there was, was on tight turns and could have been from the tires being misaligned a little. Our turning radius also got better by at least 2 feet.

The springs in the front are very soft and if you rock the truck you can get the suspension to cycle about 3-4 inches. We drove it up a speed bump sized bump to get into the field and through a few large pot holes at low speed and didnt even feel them with the front suspension. But when we use the brakes, the front end doesnt seem to dive too much. Maybe dune testing this weekend and see how it handles the whoops.

[CentralCoastTaco99]

so is your bump striking on the uniball cup? you might want to build some sort of strike pad up there before your bump slides off the cup and something breaks... :2cents:

[AllJumpStyle]

In that picture it looks like you got rid of all the caster that was built into the stock upper arm mounts. Any reason?

[socalmoto]

so is your bump striking on the uniball cup? you might want to build some sort of strike pad up there before your bump slides off the cup and something breaks... :2cents:

Yeah we'll probably add one after we test the truck some and make sure there arent any other bugs.

In that picture it looks like you got rid of all the caster that was built into the stock upper arm mounts. Any reason?

The angle on the upper arm was for anti-dive. I havent learned much about anti-dive in suspension systems and dont know how it affects the suspension through its travel (like in whoops). With the increased travel of the any long travel kit, I dont know if the anti-dive is actually hurting or helping offroad. From the trophy trucks, CORR trucks, and class 1 buggies that I have seen, they all do not have anti-dive. So we are going to try the same.

[shorty2305]

i'm no pro, but some caster will prevent body roll somewhat. My brother aded a few degrees of caster on his 68' cougar to cut down body roll. But other than that i really don't know the significance of it.

[DesertTRD]

i'm no pro, but some caster will prevent body roll somewhat. My brother aded a few degrees of caster on his 68' cougar to cut down body roll. But other than that i really don't know the significance of it.
caster actually plays a really important part.. the more caster on the spindle the better it will track in a straight line. thats the easist explination for it.

when i say more caster im talking how far the top is tilted back in relation to the lower mount.. if you take a good look at straight line cars (ie funny cars) you will see they have TONS of caster.

think of it just like shopping carts they have absolutly no castor and cannot handle for shit LOL

[socalmoto]

i'm no pro, but some caster will prevent body roll somewhat. My brother aded a few degrees of caster on his 68' cougar to cut down body roll. But other than that i really don't know the significance of it.

Are you talking about caster in the spindle or upper control arm? We do have caster in the spindle so that the truck will track as TRD said. I dont know the exact angle, but I know its more than stock (stock is 1-2 deg). The angle on the upper arm will cause the spindle angle (caster) to change through its travel. If setup properly, the roll center of the front arms will cause a kind of suspension binding that will try to lift the front end under braking. On long travel the caster angle will change a lot and any "binding" doesnt sound good, and thats why I dont know if its helpful or not.

We did make a test run in the dunes today and everything worked great. We mobbed through almost knee high whoops at 25mph and the suspension ate it up. We also ran through whoops at 60 and it handled very well. And then finally we got the truck up to 75 on some wide open areas and nothing fell off (YAAYYY!!!) Even though the first spring rate is very plush, the valving stopped us from hitting the bump stops almost always. Now we just have to mount some racing seats and test drive it a little more . . . . and finish the rear suspension.

[shorty2305]

Are you talking about caster in the spindle or upper control arm? .

I was talking about in the upper arm. But it seems u know what you're talking about better than i do.

I don't believe it works. Where's the pics to prove it?:D

[cabbage]

1/4/2008 Fixed Bump Steer

Full Bump
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/080104_1.jpg

Ride Height
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/080104_2.jpg

Full Droop
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/080104_3.jpg

[cabbage]

1/6/2008

Loaded her up
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/080105_1.jpg

Unloading her on the beach
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/080105_2.jpg

Quick stop to check if everything is ok
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/080105_3.jpg

Sorry, no action shots. Next time we're out I'll get some for sure.
Nothing broke!! :)

[CentralCoastTaco99]

looks like it bumps pretty high... how far are the LCA mounts from the ground at full bump?

[socalmoto]

looks like it bumps pretty high... how far are the LCA mounts from the ground at full bump?

I put the tires on it at full bump some time ago and never measured it. I think its somewhere around 3-4 inches though. Thats the reason I didnt want to pull anymore uptravel.

[CentralCoastTaco99]

ya... you wouldn't want to break your LCA mount off while flying thru a whoop section in the dezert. when is the next testing weekend?

[socalmoto]

Im not sure when the next test will be, but we might be able to try this sunday. Dont count on it though since miltons going snowboarding sat and Im dirtbiking fri-sat and we might both come back hurt and/or broken. If we do test, we will try filming the front suspension with a helmet cam that we've rigged up on the front hoop support to watch the passenger side.

[cabbage]

Im not sure when the next test will be, but we might be able to try this sunday. Dont count on it though since miltons going snowboarding sat and Im dirtbiking fri-sat and we might both come back hurt and/or broken. If we do test, we will try filming the front suspension with a helmet cam that we've rigged up on the front hoop support to watch the passenger side.

We're not gonna watch the drivers side too? I wanna see the Drivers side more than the passenger side...

Hopefully I'll be back by Sunday. Gonna try make it a day trip on Sat.

Wanna go testing on Sunday CentralCoastTaco?

[CentralCoastTaco99]

sounds good to me.

i went out for a little run last night and it seems that no one can drive in a straight line. everywhere i went, there were ruts from asshats that are apparently in love with driving in circles.

"WOOOO DOUGHNUTS!!!" :xbeer2: <--- idiots. hope its a bit better on sunday. lol

[AllJumpStyle]

Maybe it will rain again by then. I wasn't too impressed last time I went out there either.

[CentralCoastTaco99]

we can pretend the ruts are just RC car whoops... ya?

[AllJumpStyle]

Lol, except it seems like my fenders are going to rattle off everytime I hit them. Haha, and last time I was out they did fall off when I megahucked that jump at the first pole on sand highway :D

[CentralCoastTaco99]

try zip ties and duck tape. bulletproof. :2cents:

[AllJumpStyle]

Well, I'm currently using zipties. Maybe I need to invest in some larger ones, lol. They're all doubled or tripled up now :D It's ok though, my truck won't be running for a while anyway, I kinda blew it up :o And now it's time for a rebuild.

Milton, I'd like to check your truck out next time you head to the beach. I might be riding this weekend, but hit me up if you go.

[cabbage]

It's ok though, my truck won't be running for a while anyway, I kinda blew it up :o And now it's time for a rebuild.

Milton, I'd like to check your truck out next time you head to the beach. I might be riding this weekend, but hit me up if you go.


Umm... did u knock the crap out of it?!?!

We're aiming for Sunday! We'll let you guys know!

[AllJumpStyle]

Well, the bottom end had a knock that got worse. I'm pretty sure I spun a main bearing. Oh well, it gives me an excuse to spend some time fixing a few other things as well.

Looking forward to Sunday then!

[CentralCoastTaco99]

milton, i know you took a lot of pictures... but yet, i don't see them here. get to it!

[cabbage]

Ok ok.. Here they are! (Thanks for the push, seriously, I need it! :D )

We need more guys out there next time!!! I'll leave the ride quality and stuff to SoCalmoto... I only drove it a few times.

1/13/08
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/080113_1.jpg

http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/080113_2.jpg

http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/080113_3.jpg

http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/080113_4.jpg

http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/080113_5.jpg

http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/080113_6.jpg

http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/080113_7.jpg

http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/080113_8.jpg

http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/080113_9.JPG

http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/080113_10.jpg

Thanks for going out there with us Mike!

[cabbage]

sounds good to me.

i went out for a little run last night and it seems that no one can drive in a straight line. everywhere i went, there were ruts from asshats that are apparently in love with driving in circles.

"WOOOO DOUGHNUTS!!!" :xbeer2: <--- idiots. hope its a bit better on sunday. lol


Hmmm... But circles are fun!!!! :p

[cabbage]

Maybe its time for new tires.... :rolleyes:

http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/080113_11.jpg

Mike's tires:
http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/080113_12.jpg

[CentralCoastTaco99]

but if you get new tires, i'll never have a chance of keeping up with you. lol

[K.Patel]

Any videos?

[AZNPG]

looks good man

[socalmoto]

Any videos?

Yeah we have a video with a few very badass parts in it. We mounted the lens 90deg counter clockwise to get the entire suspension in view, but I dont know how to flip a video file 90 deg. Any suggestions? If every one has good necks or a monitor that swivels, we might just toss it up on youtube anyway.

[AllJumpStyle]

Try this

http://www.snapfiles.com/get/videofliprotate.html

[socalmoto]

Thanks for that program, it worked. I edited the movie with another program and cut it down from 10:30 to 2:30 min, but when I saved the edited version it made the file size go from 200MB to 3.5GB. I dont get it either, so I posted the unedited. Also youtube resized the video to be square so the image is kind of stretched. Sorry no music either.

Good parts in the video are 0:30-2, 5-6:30, and 8:30-9 if you dont want to watch the whole thing.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZSOVacpLDu4

[juStCauSe]

niiiice!! truck is amazing!... how much wider per side are you pushing?

[cabbage]

niiiice!! truck is amazing!... how much wider per side are you pushing?

It looks alot wider in the video because of the wrong aspect ratio.

I believe we're border line with the SCORE width rule of 78"

[socalmoto]

niiiice!! truck is amazing!... how much wider per side are you pushing?

The total tire to tire width is ~78", and I think the arms are 4" over. I forgot what the original arm length is, so if you know that I can tell you for sure what our's is.

[CentralCoastTaco99]

your top coil is working its ass off! lol what rates are you running on that thing, anyways?

[socalmoto]

your top coil is working its ass off! lol what rates are you running on that thing, anyways?

The top coil is 10" 250lb and the lower is 18" 600lb. And this makes the initial rate around 180lbs. The dual rates are working exactly how I wanted them to, and by that I mean the 600lb coil takes over a couple inches before we hit the bump. And if you watch at certain parts in the vid, the suspension travels up pretty fast until the 600 takes over, and then it just barely hits the bump.

[AllJumpStyle]

Can you feel when the spring rate changes? I know there was a discussion about that on DR and it was suggested to run closer rates between the two springs to make the transition smoother.

[CentralCoastTaco99]

I'm kind of stuck on your spring rates...

watching it on the beach it looked really smooth, yet after watching the video of the suspension in action it looks like you need to swap the coils out completely and get some that work together rather than separate. your lower coil is just chilling while the upper is doing all the work. :2cents: i mean what you have works (and appears to work well), but i just feel bad for that little 10" coil. lol

next time you're out there, you need to get some air under the tires and see how it feels on landing. i'll come with you too, and i'll see if i can go higher and farther. sound good?

[AllJumpStyle]

Sounds like I need to go too this time :)

[socalmoto]

Can you feel when the spring rate changes? I know there was a discussion about that on DR and it was suggested to run closer rates between the two springs to make the transition smoother.

I dont really think I can feel the transition that much. And I say "I think" because I did feel stiffer resistance on some hits, but I think that was just the bumpstop. Even if we do feel a transition, cant people feel the transition between the two stages on a bypass?

As for switching coils . . . I dont really want to. A progressive suspension is needed to get better handling, and without bypasses the dual coils are the only way. If I get two coils that are closer in rate, there will never really be a crossover point between the two coils and we would only have one spring rate throughout the travel. Although it doesnt look like it, the 600lb coil is actually compressing ~3 inches before the 250lb fully compresses. It doesnt look like its doing anything because the bottom coil is almost twice as long and the upper coil has a stationary point (preload rings) thats easy to watch the coil length change.

If you look at RG's old truck, he's running very different coil rates since he only has a single shock. And from the photo it look like hes traveling at least 12" before he compresses the first rate.
http://www.desertrides.com/features/vehicles/gordonTT/images/DSC02340.jpg
http://www.desertrides.com/features/vehicles/gordonTT/images/DSC02341.jpg

[brock]

ya, isn;t that how a tender spring is supposed to work?

[socalmoto]

ya, isn;t that how a tender spring is supposed to work?

Yes. Its supposed to make a progressive spring rate. The light spring rate makes the suspension travel through a certain part of the travel easily so the truck wont bounce over bumps and keep contact with the ground. And the stiffer rate should keep you away from the bumpstop so the vehicle wont kick through larger whoops and bumps. And the bumpstop should be used when you jump, or if you just hit something hard. at least this is the way I want the suspension to handle.

[shorty2305]

sounds like you got the concept down. My buddy has daul rates up front on his F-150 and the softer spring is basically bottomed out at ride height. Don't think it will do too much for him. So as long as the springs has room for up and down travel at ride height i think it would help a lot.

[AZNPG]

any updates?

[socalmoto]

any updates?

Not really. We have the grill and headlights in, but not really update worthy. Ive been trying to build up the urge to start the 3-link, but the rain for the last 2+ weeks has kind of stopped that. Plus Ive had a buggy on the side of my house that I was going to build engine and tranny mounts for, but its not really worth the time since it needs a lot of other work done to it.

We did get out to the Parker 425 this weekend though, and helped flip a few vehicles over. We were at marker 34 for a few hours and got a lot of photos.
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_6697.jpg
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_6357.jpg

Then we moved down the road a 1/2 mile to marker 35 to find this
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_6882.jpg

Right after they got the boost mobile truck on a trailer, #20 rolled
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_7068.jpg
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_7072.jpg

And right after we flipped the 20 truck, a buggy joined the fun
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_7088.jpg

And for the toyota guys
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_7294.jpg

We have quite a few pics so if anybody had a truck or buggy in the race, we might have a photo of it.

[AZNPG]

nice pics man. and link ur truck man i'm planning to also link my truck since the front end is somewhat done

[socalmoto]

nice pics man. and link ur truck man i'm planning to also link my truck since the front end is somewhat done

Yeah the pics are actually cabbage's, I just stole them. hahaha And I'll start workin out the links

[SoCalTaco805]

Bump! Any updates?

[uttaco98]

http://www.miltonyin.com/Pictures/truck/080113_6.jpg





I'm impressed the hood looks great. That came right out didn't it. Looks good guys.

Side question to socalmoto, what are you in school for?

[socalmoto]

I'm impressed the hood looks great. That came right out didn't it. Looks good guys.

Side question to socalmoto, what are you in school for?

Thanks on the hood. It looks alright . . . . from a distance. You can see how many waves it has when youre up closer. Also the supports on the hood are now separated from the sheet metal so its pretty flimsy. Im going to Poly right now for my mechanical engineering degree and I should be graduating mid march as long as I can pass my GE english class.

And I do have updates! We have started the 3-link! We would have gotten a lot more done if it wasnt for all the damn wind and "almost rain" that made us move everything into the garage . . . 3 times.

I have the link layout done, the brackets to hold the links tacked together, we have the lower link tubing bent, cut out the top plates for the lower links, and made half of the upper link (wishbone upper). We ran out of tubing due to my hasty cut off of the wrong side of one of the lower links bent tube. I should be working on it Tuesday so maybe photos then.

[socalmoto]

I dont have any pics of the links attached to the frame and axle but I do have pics of the progress we have on the lower links.
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_1944.jpg

[K.Patel]

How much would you sell your 62" deavers w/ shackles for?

[socalmoto]

We had them sold and gone a few hours after taking them off. sorry

[cobraRUNNER]

how long are your lower links?

[AllJumpStyle]

:eek: Those links are huge!

[brock]

very creative with that frisbee.

[socalmoto]

how long are your lower links?

They are about 45" long and 5.5" tall.

very creative with that frisbee.

Thanks

[shorty2305]

Are you guys planning on keeping the frame?

[socalmoto]

Are you guys planning on keeping the frame?

Ya we have to keep the frame to be Score class 7 legal.

[juStCauSe]

SICK!... are you going to knotch the frame where the shocks travel through or is your axle wide enough to be pushed out of the way?

[socalmoto]

SICK!... are you going to knotch the frame where the shocks travel through or is your axle wide enough to be pushed out of the way?

We do have a wider tundra axle and I think we'll be able to fit the shocks outboard of the frame pretty easily. But we'll see what happens when I put everything together

[CentralCoastTaco99]

why are the shock mounts so high up on the arm? if they would have been just a bit lower (like half an inch under the centerline), the arms wouldn't want to twist like they will now.

[socalmoto]

why are the shock mounts so high up on the arm? if they would have been just a bit lower (like half an inch under the centerline), the arms wouldn't want to twist like they will now.

We are already pretty close to hitting the top plate with the shock end. To move it half an inch below the centerline I would need about a 2" longer shock end. The front pivot point on the lower link is the poly bushing which shold stop any arm flop. And if the poly-urethane is too soft I can always machine some delrin to fit.

[AllJumpStyle]

I would have tried to copy these

http://www.chaosfab.com/product/accessories/rear/49500.jpg

[CentralCoastTaco99]

true, the bushings will help a lot, and delrin even more, but then the axle will have trouble articulating (like the rock crawlers do) because as you start to tuck one tire, the control arm on that side wants to move inward at the axle side. those bushings don't like to move that way. lol thats whats nice about going under the center line is you can do a uniball or heim on each end, and have less issues with binding.

[socalmoto]

I would have tried to copy these

http://www.chaosfab.com/product/accessories/rear/49500.jpg

Our design is kind of similar to tc's lower links (and most others for that matter). Ours and tc's have the front bushing, a rear heim, and the shocks are only mounted about an inch below the top plate. The difference in height and width is probably because theyre using 4130 and were using mild steel.

true, the bushings will help a lot, and delrin even more, but then the axle will have trouble articulating (like the rock crawlers do) because as you start to tuck one tire, the control arm on that side wants to move inward at the axle side. those bushings don't like to move that way. lol thats whats nice about going under the center line is you can do a uniball or heim on each end, and have less issues with binding.

I would have been nice to mount the shocks under the centerline, but again there is no way that we can do it with the shock ends that we have now. But as far as articulation, we shouldnt run into too many problems. We are going to run a sway bar which will limit the articulation and when the bushings bind some, it may save the sway bar from being snapped. Many others still run the bushing up front like tc, blitzkrieg, and giant; and they dont seem to have many problems.

But you are right that the front uni would make the system cycle much smoother, its just not really an option for this build.

[CentralCoastTaco99]

gotta keep in mind i work around the rock crawlers all day, so articulation is stuck in my head permanently. lol i get a desert call and i get all excited and giddy, its pathetic.

but as far as shock eyelets, thats not the only way to be able to do it. you could have built the arm differently. :D

[socalmoto]

gotta keep in mind i work around the rock crawlers all day, so articulation is stuck in my head permanently. lol i get a desert call and i get all excited and giddy, its pathetic.

but as far as shock eyelets, thats not the only way to be able to do it. you could have built the arm differently. :D

Ya I could have and now youre making me want to change it . . . so damn you. Im too far into it you temptress. hahah

[CentralCoastTaco99]

Ya I could have and now youre making me want to change it . . . so damn you. Im too far into it you temptress. hahah

lol, don't worry about it. your truck is far from being a rock crawling trailer queen, so i don't think you'll have any issues with the bushings binding up. the most articulation it will see is when you roll it. ;) enjoy.

[CentralCoastTaco99]

Click here (http://www.polyperformance.com/projects_gallery/Drew%20CJ/index.html), click to the 3rd page (using the arrows at the bottom), and view the picture 2nd row down, center... and 4th row down, on the left. that will give you full motion out of it without the links being able to rotate and bind on the shock eyelets. :) maybe later i'll just walk outside and take a real picture that i can post on here so you don't have to go through my wicked maze...

[socalmoto]

Got some photos for you guys. I still havent made the upper link, but I did cycle the axle from ride height to full bump. Thursday Im hoping to build the upper link and I will try to swing the axle through the full travel. If Im lucky I might even start running the tubing though the rear of the cab. After I build and tack in the upper link I will check the articulation to see if the lower link gets too close to the frame. I could either move the mounting on the axle outward more, or I could try to shift the entire rear of the frame inward an inch or so. I dont think theres a rule against it, but it would take a lot to move the frame rails around.

http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_1883.jpg
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_1890.jpg
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_1884.jpg
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_1895.jpg

[cobraRUNNER]

looks good keep the pics coming:)

[socalmoto]

Got the upper made today.
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_1899.jpg
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_1902.jpg
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_1903.jpg

[AllJumpStyle]

Why a uniball and not a heim on the upper link?

[socalmoto]

Why a uniball and not a heim on the upper link?

Dont really know. It would have been easier to adjust the pinion angle with a heim, but then we lose the badass look hahahah

[toycoma732]

Im diggin your rear diff cover ;)

[nzanesmith]

Awesome work guys we started work on my truck last weekend and will be going a similar route as you.

[AllJumpStyle]

Dont really know. It would have been easier to adjust the pinion angle with a heim, but then we lose the badass look hahahah

Upper link looks good. Just curious as to how much wear that uniball will see. I know that most people that run a heim replace it a few times per season. If the cup doesn't wear out though you're golden.

[socalmoto]

Upper link looks good. Just curious as to how much wear that uniball will see. I know that most people that run a heim replace it a few times per season. If the cup doesn't wear out though you're golden.

Do you know what size heim theyre running? And are they mounting them with a vertical bolt or horizontal?

[AllJumpStyle]

Shoot. Don't know the size, but with a vertical bolt.

[CentralCoastTaco99]

if i had to guess, id say its probably a 1" bore heim. If thats the case, the actual bearing itself is the same whether its a uniball or a rod end.

[socalmoto]

Do you guys know what to look for as far as when to replace the uniball/rod ends? Are people replacing them due to the actual heim failing or is it just wear on the PTFE liner?

I do have some more photos. Droop
http://srv0110-04.oak1.imeem.com/g/p/3383630c349192a34023ac1d8c1f5a75_web.jpg

Bump. The axle is set at the height it should be with the tires on.
http://srv0110-04.oak1.imeem.com/g/p/c25e833c27d2847da6d181c24875611f_web.jpg
http://srv0110-04.oak1.imeem.com/g/p/a7cb08bcd13b8f3977422ffedaddd3eb_web.jpg

Im going with a low profile rear cage. The rules for score just state that the rear down tubes have to be at more than a 30 deg angle from vertical, must intersect the main rear hoop intersection, and dont rule out bends. I tried contacting score on any conflicts with the rules running it this way and he asked me to send in a picture. I sent him a side pic of the truck with tubes drawn in microsoft paint (I know real high class) but I havent heard back from them and its been over a week. So I ran the tube anyway.
http://srv0110-04.oak1.imeem.com/g/p/b8a9d3fc3328d06caca69759d582a804_web.jpg

Picture I sent to score tech
http://srv0110-04.oak1.imeem.com/g/p/24e22ac3aa69eda1d665d39c1ad4417b_web.jpg

[slosurfer]

Dang Milton, how the heck have I missed this. Just finished reading the whole thing. I've looked for a build on your truck before and just now stumbled upon it (I recognized the broken spindle pic in socalmoto's avatar):D . Great job guys! When do you want to start on my 4runner.:) Give me a call next time you guys head out for a test run.


It's amazing the work you guys are doing, especially considering the tool kit you have. (see pic):D

http://srv0106-09.oak1.imeem.com/g/8bfdfae636ed6c61a995fea49cd82903.jpg

.

[juStCauSe]

so whats the word with the truck.... looks like its goin to be bad as hell!

[cabbage]

Build up is currently on hold.. We're both in Taiwan on a vacation right now, its SoCal's first time to Taiwan. We'll be back in 1 week and he will be working on the truck 7 days a week. We were aiming to race in the BITD Terrible's 250 race on 4/17, so we will see how it goes.

Chris (slosurfer)! How are you guys doing?! I'll call you as soon as we get her up and running!

[MERCER FABRICATION]

fab skills are looking really good.
to try and answer the uniball question.... i think guys replace them when the liner wears out to bad. it will get to the point that you can wiggle the ball around inside the cup. people probably try to change them before they fail i would think, but shit happens

[socalmoto]

fab skills are looking really good.
to try and answer the uniball question.... i think guys replace them when the liner wears out to bad. it will get to the point that you can wiggle the ball around inside the cup. people probably try to change them before they fail i would think, but shit happens

Alright thanks.

I finally had time to start working on the truck again and ran the rear tubes and almost have the fuel cell mounted. The rear cage is a low profile type cage and I'll get better photos from the inside tomorrow. The cage hits the top corner of the main cage at the a-pillar hoop and has a diagonal made of 1.5" that connects the bottom of the main rear hoop and intersects the downtube just outside of the cab. Since the rear down tube intersects the main rear hoop at the corner and is at more than 30 deg from vertical, it should be score legal.

I do need to know how much support is actually needed for a fuel cell. My plan right now was to support the bottom corners with 3"X5" triangles and support the top corners with smaller tabs. The top corners will be bolted to the cell's top plate using 4 of the bolts that hold the top plate of the fuel cell. The brackets I made wont come off, but can the fuel cell itself hold the weight of the gas inside it?

Rear cage
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_0881.jpg

There will be crossbracing later
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_0886.jpg
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_0972.jpg

Front mounts
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_0931.jpg

[socalmoto]

Heres the photos from inside the cab.

Intersect at top of rear hoop
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_1934.jpg

Intersect at bottom of rear hoop
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_1935.jpg

Through rear of cab
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_1936.jpg

Intersection behind cab. I will add a gusset between the two tubes coming through the cab after I weld all the tubes.
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_1940.jpg
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_1937.jpg

[usaf_taco]

what did you do to fix the cab splitting issue, besides caging it?

[socalmoto]

what did you do to fix the cab splitting issue, besides caging it?

When we got the truck the cab in the rear was pretty bad. It had tried to be fixed but the bottom side of the cab was pretty rusted out/destroyed. The only way we could fix it was to cut out the whole affected area (about 12"X2") and remake it out of sheet metal. We tig welded it back together, but the cab still started to split after only a few times out. So we added the gussets that are shown in the pics below, and the cab has not split anymore.

The body was also splitting in SEVERAL other areas and that was the reason for the cage and eventually becoming a race truck. The biggest issue with the body has been under the seats and tranny tunnel. The entire section has sunk at least 1" over time and has multiple cracks. There are also cracks and crumpling in the wheel wells where our feet are.

http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_0885.jpg
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_0887.jpg
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_0896.jpg

[usaf_taco]

are those pics taken from inside the storage areas in the bench seat?

[socalmoto]

are those pics taken from inside the storage areas in the bench seat?

It is the pass side back corner. Its under the bench seat which is only held in by the carpet and some 10mm bolts.

[shorty2305]

The cage work looks like it's coming out awesome. Only thing i would suggest is moving the cell upwarda bit. You said you've got 1/4 of an inch plus the half from bumping it lower. In my (limited) experience shit finds ways to travel where it's not supposed to. Just an idea. Keep the updates coming!:D

[socalmoto]

The cage work looks like it's coming out awesome. Only thing i would suggest is moving the cell upwarda bit. You said you've got 1/4 of an inch plus the half from bumping it lower. In my (limited) experience shit finds ways to travel where it's not supposed to. Just an idea. Keep the updates coming!:D

Ya I guess we should. The mounts are in solid and lined up but we were gonna add some rubber underneath it. So instead of the thin shit I was gonna use, I 'll just use thicker stuff.

Heres some pics. We have the shock mounts almost completed but I dont have pics of them . . . cabbage has pics of them being made but I dont know if he'll post. Even though hes supposedly up till 2 am (ya right. LAIR!!)

Rear x brace
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_1938-1.jpg

Two tabs in the rear holding the cell.
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_1941.jpg

Four tabs holding the front of the cell.
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_1940.jpg

Location of the shocks.
http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn329/stevefike/tacoma/IMG_1939.jpg

[AZNPG]

looks nice man

[CentralCoastTaco99]

looks good. when is the next beach run? seems like progress is going fast.

[socalmoto]

Thanks. Progress is going much faster now because I finally graduated so all my time really goes into the truck to get it running. Im hoping to have it running by next weekend but we'll see what bugs will pop up.

[CentralCoastTaco99]

damn... well hit me up if you want me to stand around while you work. I'm always down to give you my criticism. also, if you need parts, hit me up. I can deliver. lol

[socalmoto]

damn... well hit me up if you want me to stand around while you work. I'm always down to give you my criticism. also, if you need parts, hit me up. I can deliver. lol

Well we always need more parts hahah. I actually need to order some heims for the sway bar, limiting straps, and seat harnesses so i may call tomorrow. I should be just welding all weekend as long as everything goes well tomorrow. If your cab is still cracking in the rear corner, you could always swing by, check out the truck and we could weld in some gussets to stop the cracking. You could cut the gussets yourself with the tools I have lying around and I'll weld them in for you. But Im warning you that if we weld on the cab, the paint will burn off in that area. And I know how much you care about the paint on your truck.

Oh yeah no pics

[CentralCoastTaco99]

Well we always need more parts hahah. I actually need to order some heims for the sway bar, limiting straps, and seat harnesses so i may call tomorrow. I should be just welding all weekend as long as everything goes well tomorrow. If your cab is still cracking in the rear corner, you could always swing by, check out the truck and we could weld in some gussets to stop the cracking. You could cut the gussets yourself with the tools I have lying around and I'll weld them in for you. But Im warning you that if we weld on the cab, the paint will burn off in that area. And I know how much you care about the paint on your truck.

Oh yeah no pics

i should be working in the shop most of tomorrow, and fixing the cracked cab is on the agenda. more importantly is getting the 4wd back in and rebuilding the front shocks though.

the paint doesn't matter on the back of my cab. lol i'll just paint it black just like everything else that ends up raw on my truck. ;)