Self regulated shooting ranges

[WallyP226]

Some good points were made in another thread about self regulated shooting ranges.

I for one, am not a huge fan of self regulated ranges, based on many years of personal experience at them. There are safety issues, environmental issues that I think need to be addressed. In fact both of these issues drove me to buy a private membership to get away from those whom don't respect the rules or the environement.

From a safety aspect many folks at self regulated shooting ranges think nothing of shooting up signs, the privy, leaving trash all over the place, shooting during cease fires, carrying loaded weapons around during cease fires, shooting other people's targets, showering others in brass from automatic weapons etc etc etc etc. The majority of brass less 22LR cases is cleaned up by reloaders, 98% of the trash is left by those shooting the steel cased 7.62X39 ie an AK or SKS. The other issue is people taking crap down range ie bowling balls, coke bottles, tin cans, TV sets, washing machines down range and riddling them with bullets and leaving them. These things don't occur at the private ranges I go to , because if it did there would be two choices, either clean up the mess or leave never to return!

From an environmental standpoint, once a range is opened, in order for the land to be used for anything else it has to be decontaminated. Lead clean up is an extensive and expensive process. The environmentalists think that driving off the trail messes up the environment, wait till they see the landscape after 2000 + cubic yards of dirt are removed for lead decontamination!

The same attitude and people IMO that tear up the trails are also at the self regulated shooting ranges, shooting up the signs, blowing holes in the "Johnny on the Spot", leaving a big pile of discarded Wolf 7.62X39mm brass 10-20 feet up and right of their shooting position.

I don't know how else to do to get away from them the except to pay for exlusivity. I have tried calling them on it and there has been some tense situations, not a good thing when everybody has a loaded fire arm in their hand and some with a beer in the other!

[Mike]

The same attitude and people IMO that tear up the trails are also at the self regulated shooting ranges, shooting up the signs, blowing holes in the "Johnny on the Spot", leaving a big pile of discarded Wolf 7.62X39mm brass 10-20 feet up and right of their shooting position.

I feel your pain. Check out this post I started a couple years ago over at the PBB.

In general, people suck.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=147265&highlight=idiots+fordyce

Later,
....Mike

[DennisDawg]

In general, people suck.

That about sums up the root of most problems!

[pemart]

Sounds like the problem we have here in CO, at a local spot near Boulder. Except its the 4 wheel drive organizations that have to suck it up and clean up the mess, or have a popular trail shut down entirely. But who said life was fair, right?

[Mike]

Sounds like the problem we have here in CO, at a local spot near Boulder. Except its the 4 wheel drive organizations that have to suck it up and clean up the mess, or have a popular trail shut down entirely. But who said life was fair, right?

Sounds like a conversation I overheard during a recent Rubicon cleanup effort.

Someone said 'We don't have to do this' (but if we want to keep our trails open) 'we have to do this'.

Then we all went and shoveled up lots of turds.

I stand by my original statement that in general, people suck. I was at a red light yesterday. Some tool in the lane next to me a couple cars up opened a pack of cigs, took the foil and the wrapper and tossed it right out the window into the street. I woulda liked to take my maglight to the side of his head. I need to overcome my fear of incarceration and actually follow through with my urges. :D

Later,
....Mike

[Dick Foster]

I saw some bitch toss her still burning cigarette butt out the window yesterday afternoon right out on to the street. Gladly all of our windows were down so I pulled up beside her and yelled over at her "Use your ash tray, PIG". She stared straight ahead fearful of looking at me but I know she sure as hell heard it. The bitch was probably a damn democommie cunt to boot. She sure as hell looked like one to me.

Maybe you should just start to follow your urges, Mike. At least you'll feel better.

I was on my way to pick up my taxes for the second damn time so had the urge to vent a little anyway, you know sorta grumpy. May as well take it out on a deserving target. LOL

[Sturmvogel]

I was helping rake yards a few weeks ago for a fundraiser, and was disgusted with how many cigarrete butts I found in several yards. I guess people think they just disappear when they toss them?

[Dick Foster]

I'm a smoker and personally never toss butts anywhere. I really hate that and think it's poor behavior and just as bad as tossing a beer can or something. If I have no other choice, I snuff them real good and pocket the butt until I can dispose of it properly. People in cars I just don't understand at all. They have an ash try right there. Then to it gets dry as hell out this way in the summer and fall and those idiots are tossing lit butts out their car window. Some people are too stupid to be using up the air they breathe.

[Sturmvogel]

Good for you, Dick. Sometimes here people just toss them where they are and don't even stomp them out. I don't get it.

[Dick Foster]

Sadly most people these days seem to be fucksticks. They care about nothing but themselves and think the world owes them something just for taking up space on the planet.

[calamaridog]

Open shooting areas are a disaster unless a group takes responsibility for making sure they stay clean.

They can also be very dangerous. I was downrange changing targets when some knuckleheads opened fire with their AK's when I was about 10 years old. So much for the "cease fire" everyone else was observing.

The popular open shooting range here in San Diego was shut down around 94 or 95 after some idiot started a fire with tracer rounds...

[DennisDawg]

Sadly most people these days seem to be fucksticks. They care about nothing but themselves and think the world owes them something just for taking up space on the planet.

This is about the most true thing you've ever typed! <G>

For a few decades we’ve not thought civics or anything about responsibility in school to our illiterate, sedentary and single parented (or less) kids. They grow up to be nothing but huge pains in the ass and now we have more than a whole generation of them to contend with while our existence is slowly regulated to nothing so as make it seem as if we’re doing something about it!

[BigBro]

Actually, I can't remember the last time I saw anybody smoking a cigarette in a car where they actually used the ashtray. Dick, you're the first I've heard that actually does this. Kudos to you.

Yes, many people are f***sticks--they walk around with a chip on their shoulder and a feeling of entitlement. They think people owe them something, probably because that's what their mommies taught them and they know no other way. Basically, they subscribe to the Dr. Spock generation BS--if it feels good, just do it (and f*** everyone else).

Here in Tucson, AZ, you can go off pretty much anywhere into the desert and fire a gun. As long as you are outside of city limits, nobody cares. It's great for hunting, but here's the kicker--offroad trails are also usually outside the city limits. So here in the wild west, it is not unusual to be on some trail and either see or hear shooting very nearby. Usually, it's when you get close to an unimproved road that some punk gang-banger was able to drive his low rider on so he could get somewhere to try out his Tech 9 other than the local indoor range. If you're lucky, you never get to have the pleasurable experience of hearing a bullet whistle by somewhere overhead. And after he leaves his beer cans, brass, and broken bottles, who do you think gets blamed for the mess? Offroad enthusiasts do, because sh**head is on or close to offroad trails. It really bites. I wish I had a solution, but I sure don't. Mostly, what I think everyone can do is take a stand like Dick did. Speak up and maybe idoiots like the one Dick saw will eventually get the message. (Keep your fingers crossed.)

[WallyP226]

I don't know that direct blunt confrontation is the way to handle every situation, especially when it involved drinking, drugs, poor attitudes and firearms.

I am not saying that saying nothing is the way to go, but getting aggressive with some young punks whom doen't care about their life let alone yours, add some crack or meth to that combo and a confrontation is the last thing that needs to happen. Getting shot over a pile of brass just isn't worth it.

I had some dudes roll up on me in a remote area self regulated range, they were smoking joints, had a case of beer that they shot off of. They shot accross my lane, pissed on the ground next to my lane close enough I could smell it, and then started shooting at targets while I was down range. The last act was the kicker, I tried being being nice and then blunt and it got nasty quick, lets just say I left the range with back to my truck walking away slowly with my Armalite A3 at the low ready with my finger on the trigger, my 9mm in a thigh holster both cocked with full magazines full of ammo, I never took my eye off of them until I backed out of the shooting range. I left my target, holder, brass everything where it was, and kept my 9mm on the seat till I was down the road. I sure wish I had had a cell phone back then!

Diplomacy can save your life!

[calamaridog]

We have one good open shooting area left around here that few people know about. Somehow, these three "bangers" found out about it and showed up when myself and my friend were shooting.

They actually set up farther down, and minded their business. So we decided to let them be. Then about 20 minutes later, the local Deputy pulled up and drove over there first.

So my friend and I looked at each other and were like "not a good idea" and we went over there and covered him. When we walked up, he had a kinda worried look on his face. Kinda like, "why did I contact these bangers by myself, and how did they find their way out here?" Then he recognized me, as he used to work overtime at my Jail. And I gave him a wink and a nod, and held my 870 at low ready while my friend took concealment behind the patrol car.

So, to make a long story short, one of the three guys was on Parole for drugs, and he got arrested for violating his Parole and being a felon in possession of firearms/ammo.

The other 2 guys were not documented bangers, they were this dudes younger cousins and were just trying to be hard and shoot guns. They said the guns were their fathers, and the Deputy told them where daddy could pick them up LOL.

Now, to make the story complete, the Parolee came to live in the housing unit I was working. And I used to give him a hard time whenever I saw him:doh:

[KSdblcab]

WallyP226; Good points, I don't know how self regulated ranges are still open with all the trash and criminals. I can't believe they haven't been banned simply due to the potential homicides. I've only ever used private ranges (family run) strictly regulated to family and law enforcement only. I'm assuming you carry the P226, what's the concealed carry law in MO?

FYI, I too hate people that have no respect for the environment and litter. There's nothing more gratifying than pulling someone over after they throw their cigarette butt out the window, and citing them for littering (using discretion of course). It's reassuring to know that there are others out there with similar views and are taking stands when they can. Don't ever put yourself in a position to get in trouble for someone elses carelessness though, so no beating of people that suck. They will eventually get their comeuppance.

[WallyP226]

WallyP226; Good points, I don't know how self regulated ranges are still open with all the trash and criminals. I can't believe they haven't been banned simply due to the potential homicides. I've only ever used private ranges (family run) strictly regulated to family and law enforcement only. I'm assuming you carry the P226, what's the concealed carry law in MO?

FYI, I too hate people that have no respect for the environment and litter. There's nothing more gratifying than pulling someone over after they throw their cigarette butt out the window, and citing them for littering (using discretion of course). It's reassuring to know that there are others out there with similar views and are taking stands when they can. Don't ever put yourself in a position to get in trouble for someone elses carelessness though, so no beating of people that suck. They will eventually get their comeuppance.



Initially when I tried to get a reciprocicity CCP from Pa, all counties at that point were denying MO reciprocity CCPs because MO residents just swamped every county with out of state requests that they couldn't handle the extra work load. So I don't have a CCP yet, I still need to take the class, Jackson County Missouri was the last county to finally get CCPs, I think in Feb2005.

However no CCP is required for a firearm in the glove box or under the seat of the vehicle, that was part of the provision that passed in Missouri. I would however suggest that if one is pulled over for a speeding ticket in Missouri that they readily admit to a loaded weapon in the vehicle so you don't find yourself spread eagle on the assfault in a hurry.

Many places that do the CCP have a weekend course to meet the minimum requirements for $100s.

If you want to know what range this occured at, it was the Martha Perry self regulated range off of highway 13 between Concordia and Warrensburg Missouri. As I understand, now the Warrensburg SWAT team drives down there to play and keep things a little more sane, but still this was just one of a series of incidents I had occur at that range and another just like it south of Kansas City.

I will stay out at Pioneer, lake City with thier NRA rangemasters or go to the 7&10 gunclub in Kansas for Trap, or that nice little range off of 87th street in Johnson County Kansas for fun shoots with my AR or AK.

Yea I like Sigs Saurs, but realize there are other pistols that are as good or better. If I could just afford one of those target Kimber 45acps, I would have all the pistols I want.

[BigBro]

Pierce Co, Washington S.O. issues a Kimber to their officers as standard equipment. Not too bad, eh?

[Sturmvogel]

I generally use the range here in Laramie, and it appears to be pretty much self-regulated. Most of the time I go to shoot some trap, there isn't anyone else there, so I don't have to worry about being shot at. Luckily most people in Wyoming are smart with their guns, so I've never had any problems. Every now and then I find a little bit of trash, so I pick it up with the rest of my brass, no big deal. The range I use in Houston always has a little old lady meaner than everyone else driving around in a golf cart, so that one is fairly safe too.

[calamaridog]

"Luckily most people in Wyoming are smart with their guns, so I've never had any problems."

I agree 100%. Go to rural America and the gun culture still thrives, the kids know gun safety, and people still respect each other.

Come out to CA, where every ghetto kid learned to shoot sideways from Hollywood and see where they get it. For that matter, go to any open shooting area within 45 minutes of a major city:rolleyes:

I can say that I NEVER had a problem with a hunter/shooter when I've been to WY. Nothing but respect and common sense.

[DriftinCO]

Amen! Amen!

[Sturmvogel]

"Luckily most people in Wyoming are smart with their guns, so I've never had any problems."

I agree 100%. Go to rural America and the gun culture still thrives, the kids know gun safety, and people still respect each other.

Come out to CA, where every ghetto kid learned to shoot sideways from Hollywood and see where they get it. For that matter, go to any open shooting area within 45 minutes of a major city:rolleyes:

I can say that I NEVER had a problem with a hunter/shooter when I've been to WY. Nothing but respect and common sense.

I suppose you can guess why I prefer Wyoming to Houston then. Just my opinion. Big cities just don't do it for me. The part of Houston my parents live in always has automatic rifles on major holidays, drug deals behind the house with "packin' gangstas", etc. Luckily most of the people who go to the gun range near there are police officers and hunters, so it's fairly common-sense. Like I said, the owner's wife chews anyone out who even accidentally points an unloaded/action open gun at someone.