: Bumpers


RedneckYuppyCrawler
03-28-2008, 12:45 AM
OK so I know I'm a newb but what do you think about the All-Pro front bumber with the SmittyBuilt XRC 8. First it seems like the All-Pro is a pretty solid set up but is it a bolt on set up, or a weld? Second the XRC 8 from what I have allready read, the price is definitely right but is it really worth a sh*t? I mean it is rated for 8000# and my truck is unter 2tons but I really don't the ins and out of a good winch.

AxleIke
03-28-2008, 12:56 AM
All pro is okay. They seem to hold up well. Others will chime in on their own personal experience.

As for winches, only one company: Warn.

Others will disagree. I understand budget, I really do. But I always advise people to save a few extra pennies, and get the best. No one ever does, but its what I advise.

RedRunnertc
03-28-2008, 09:15 AM
There are a number of bumpers out there for your truck in a variety of styles, look around at Demello, CBI, etc. In the end, I went custom with mine because it was the only way to get everything I wanted - front receiver, max approach angle, air storage, etc.

x2 on Warn.

Seriously though, with the way your truck is setup, an 8000 lb winch isn't enough (assuming you have those giant tires to run trails that REQUIRE giant tires) There have been a number of occassions where we have been working Molly's 9.5ti hard even double lined.

With an 8k winch, you will need to double line pull almost every time and that will make the already glacial line speed of the XRC8 twice as bad.

Blowntaco
03-28-2008, 09:35 AM
I love my All-Pro front bumper

mrdoug
03-28-2008, 09:48 AM
FWIW... I just picked up a BadLand bumper.. it's similar to the all pro. Bolt on with some minor trimming. It's pretty stout and offers a winch mount that's 3/16" thick.

AxleIke
03-28-2008, 10:37 AM
There are a number of bumpers out there for your truck in a variety of styles, look around at Demello, CBI, etc. In the end, I went custom with mine because it was the only way to get everything I wanted - front receiver, max approach angle, air storage, etc.

x2 on Warn.

Seriously though, with the way your truck is setup, an 8000 lb winch isn't enough (assuming you have those giant tires to run trails that REQUIRE giant tires) There have been a number of occassions where we have been working Molly's 9.5ti hard even double lined.

With an 8k winch, you will need to double line pull almost every time and that will make the already glacial line speed of the XRC8 twice as bad.

I dunno. I am looking at multimount and a new front bumper for mine, but i will be buying an 8k. My dad has one, and it's been MORE than adequate. Never had an issue, even winching a jeep cherokee back onto its wheels.

ike
03-28-2008, 10:57 AM
I was thinking about that winch, and may still pick it up. You cannt beat its price. You just wont be able to put it through the constant abuse that a warn will take.

AxleIke
03-28-2008, 12:17 PM
This is the issue with winches.

A winch isn't something you use when the going is easy.

Its something you use when someone, or yourself, is in a BAAAD way. You need it to work when you need it. If you NEED a winch, its likely because the other options won't work.

Plus, most people put the winch on the front of their truck. That means that for most of the year, it gets abused by the elements.

I've certainly never seen all the trucks with all the winches in the world. Every truck I've seen with a non-warn winch has experienced difficulty making it work at one point or another. I've never seen a single problem on a truck with a Warn.

Yet another thing to consider:

I do not have a winch. Most of you know how I drive my truck and the trails I drive it on. I've never needed a winch. Troy does not have a winch. You all know how and where he wheels his truck. I don't know whether he's needed one before, but I doubt it.

I will likely be getting a winch, but I've done fine up until this point.

Anyway, I'm just offering an opinion. Take it with a grain of salt.

Chalkie
03-28-2008, 01:27 PM
FWIW, Bill Burke recommends a winch rated at 1 1/2 times the GVW of the vehicle. His write up and thoughts are at http://www.bb4wa.com/articles/Accessories-winch.htm

RedRunnertc
03-28-2008, 03:46 PM
I wouldn't say I've never needed a winch, there are always other ways to execute the recovery, but there have been several where I was glad we had one...

I was in a situation early on where a guy we were 'wheeling with had the winch mounted on the back. From that point on, I have been sold on the multimount idea, and it's why I had a front receiver built into my bumper instead of a winchplate.

People will say "line speed isn't that big a deal". Well, it's not - until you use a fast winch. You get spoiled FAST.

Most important though, is I go further than even Isaac's comments about when you need a winch. I consider a winch a lifesaving tool. It's operation is absolutely a life/death consequence, and this is not an area to cheap out.

AxleIke
03-28-2008, 05:16 PM
I said I didn't know if you'd needed one. I haven't.

I've only been in two situations where one was used on me, and both were strapable, but the winch was preferable. One was a near flop, and was a rear pull, and the other was a front "stuck" pull. Multimount is the bomb.

Don_G
03-29-2008, 10:11 AM
Just a quick remark about the AllPro bumpers:

The front is made for the winch and very strong.

The rear is NOT strong enough at the receiver to support a multi-mount winch.

Both front and rear bumpers need shackle mounts welded on where they mount to the frame. :2cents:

gr8goose82
03-29-2008, 06:15 PM
as for the bumper, as troy said, I went custom, i bent everything i bought, plus i wanted the front receiver and the approach angle. also, have you checked out smittybuilt for your bumper, i had them front and rear on my first truck and i put 'em both through hell and never had a problem

and for the winch, one word...WARN. it's simple to use, puts up with some serious abuse, and if you loose the controller like i did, you can still make it work easily as long as you have a 3" piece of wire on you. we've got a 12K and it'll even drag a skid steer loader onto a trailer, and that's pretty impressive in my book, cause when they break, you literally have to drag them out.

Son of Mayhem
03-29-2008, 07:45 PM
I love my Allpro front, Marlin rear... I will be buying the xrc8 when I get the chance.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a30/Sonofmayhem/4runner007.jpg

The Marlin wasn't completely mounted at the time of the picture. However it still doesn't sit "perfect" with my 4runner.

The AllPro is bolt on at 6 bolts, 4 pts.

ToyRunner1
03-29-2008, 08:07 PM
I love my warn winches. I personally run an M6000 on my XJ, but I have a 9000 for my 4Runner.



Adam,
Damn that truck is looking good!!!

poorboyota26
03-30-2008, 01:09 AM
WOW I love your Runner it's pretty can I buy it from you I'll give you my truck and 1500 for it. :D

ike
03-30-2008, 06:00 AM
X2, that thing is clean.

RedRunnertc
03-30-2008, 09:49 AM
With Adam's history over the last year, chances are it will be for sale shortly ... I think this one holds the record for time of ownership, the next longest one was maybe half this long ... :D

Asha'man
03-30-2008, 04:18 PM
I love that Marlin rear! Haven't really looked at the AllPro front, and it's hard to see details in that pic, but it looks good too!

vwfastg60
04-01-2008, 03:41 AM
I love my Allpro front, Marlin rear... I will be buying the xrc8 when I get the chance.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a30/Sonofmayhem/4runner007.jpg

The Marlin wasn't completely mounted at the time of the picture. However it still doesn't sit "perfect" with my 4runner.

The AllPro is bolt on at 6 bolts, 4 pts.

Clean 4runner!!!! i miss mine...

you said the front is 6bolts...does it use the 4 factory mounting points? If it does i would say its not that strong. My truck has been up front and even at low speed with a stock bumper those things move around. I wouldnt trust those to do anything other then hold my lights...and i dont trust that anymore...my stupid baja bumper thing bounces around like crazy!


Im going multi mount. I like it for a few reasons. 1 if you cant see it you cant steel it. 2 i really dont want to leave a ton of money on the front of my truck in snow,rain, rocks...why would i spend money on something and leave it out there to be trashed by the elements or trashed by falling off a rock or something. It will mount in the truck where the alarm can tell me if it trys to walk off and stay dry while doing that. A friend of mine has 2 on his S10 and they have taken tons of abuse. I believe they are mile marker but the last few times hes had to use a flat head to run them....and they sucked. His have been out side the truck for years, connections dirty,line nasty and begging to give you lockjaw,and they are pretty weak. Travis's taco stopped and i mean stopped his winch in the snow where it should have been ok.

If you look around warn does have prices close to the smittybuilt and my opinion is that its worth it to pay the extra $100 for a warn. The smitty built bumpers were junk and im sure the winces have to be about the same quality. I keep thinking about cheeping out on one and getting it but what will it do for me in that one time you need it? I dont know....might as well go with what has been proven for years and know it will work.

Echoecho
04-22-2008, 01:35 PM
I'm in Iraq right now, but....my taco is in Loveland with an ARB bullbar on it. No winch yet. I have the chance to pick up an Aisin AI-1000 while I'm over here. Does anyone know if it will fit in the ARB on a 2000 Taco? Its a toyota factory option on the non-US Land Cruiser.

SoftTaco
06-22-2008, 11:17 AM
Is there any other companies that make tube bumpers, ive checked a few but looking for other options.

ziggy428
06-22-2008, 10:12 PM
Key here is winches are rated differently than hoists, all physics. The 8,000lb hoist would lift your truck off the ground no prob. I believe thats why you want your winch rated over GVWR. I like the Ramsey Hydraulic winches too.

mrdoug
06-23-2008, 08:39 AM
Is there any other companies that make tube bumpers, ive checked a few but looking for other options.

If you haven't checked out Badland bumpers (badlandbumpers.com)yet, you might consider them. Also, from working on Don's bumper yesterday, I'd say to look for DOM tubing over HREW..

Son of Mayhem
06-23-2008, 07:42 PM
With Adam's history over the last year, chances are it will be for sale shortly ... I think this one holds the record for time of ownership, the next longest one was maybe half this long ... :D


Mr. Know it all!


:flipoff4:


It was clean, I shouldn't have sold it.... But I LOVE my Taco:D

SoftTaco
06-23-2008, 10:09 PM
yeah checked them out already, thanks anyway. I like their baja ft bumper. any other ideas, or know of anybody wanting to sell a tube ft bumper hat will fit my 02 taco. plaese let me know. thanks.

SoftTaco
06-23-2008, 10:10 PM
oops, that*

Don_G
06-24-2008, 07:39 AM
My AllPro front bumper has held up to some hard knocks, and has not shifted or bent the frame even when stalling my 9,500# Warn. (The bumper was dsigned around the Warn 9.5 XP, it mounts as high and tight as anything I've ever seen.)

I have not double-lined the winch yet, and will try to tie the bitter end off to an immoveable object if I'm pulling someone else out double-lined. If I have to double-line myself out I will do it as gingerly as possible: but I'm afraid of the frame more than the All-Pro front. I think the All-Pro front is a good compromise for the Taco: it is strong, but only weighs 65#.

Extra weight on the front stresses all the steering and suspension components, and I try to keep it down. The 550# AllPro/Billstein Coilovers are the perfect suspension setup for my truck. One front shock broke recently, but I'm told that it's never been seen before. (Ain't it great to be unique!) I am sticking with the Billsteins, though.

One bitch: the bumper does NOT come with shackle mounts and it cost me $50 per pair to add them.

Stock skid plates won't work with the All-Pro front - you'll have to buy All-Pro skids or make them yourself. The All-Pro skids are working well for me.

The All-Pro rear did not stand up to my driving in Moab. It weighs 60#, which seemed a good compromise when I bought it. I've just added 5# of gussets to it, and hope it has doubled the strength of the outside corners. The receiver is NOT rated for towing and is not a good recovery point. Again, no shackle mounts on the rear, and it cost me $50 to add a pair here in Aurora. I think the Marlin rear bumper is almost a clone of the All-Pro, or vice versa. (Don't know who was first.) I have never done a side-by-side comparison of them.

If I was going to spend the money on a custom bumper, it would be for the rear, which I would have clearanced at the same time. Alex's Taco has the NUTS of a rear bumper setup IMHO.

On both the front and rear bumpers (any make) on a Taco, I think you should always tie off to both sides of the bumper when taking heavy loads (Like jerk straps.) I use a 6' tree strap between shackle mounts located at the frame rails. This spreads the load as much as possible onto both sides of the frame. Pulling on just one side turns the bumper into a lever trying to bend the frame.

The All-Pro sliders have really saved my truck. I like them. Gusset them all the way to the top of the frame when you install them or you'll bend your frame when they hit the rocks. Trim the legs to put the inner tube under the body seam for best clearance and strength in case they do flex under a hard knock.

Chalkie
06-24-2008, 07:59 AM
Don - Doug suggested DOM over HREW. While DOM is stronger (and more expensive), do you think that would have made a difference on your bumper? or was a more a case of poor design?

mrdoug
06-24-2008, 08:42 AM
I think the All-Pro front is a good compromise for the Taco: it is strong, but only weighs 65#.

Extra weight on the front stresses all the steering and suspension components, and I try to keep it down.

That's a good point, my badland front with the hoops/stinger weighs in at about 100# without the winch.


If I was going to spend the money on a custom bumper, it would be for the rear, which I would have clearanced at the same time. Alex's Taco has the NUTS of a rear bumper setup IMHO.


X2, I have the bentup rear and want to modify it to be more like Alex's armorology wrap around


On both the front and rear bumpers (any make) on a Taco, I think you should always tie off to both sides of the bumper when taking heavy loads (Like jerk straps.) I use a 6' tree strap between shackle mounts located at the frame rails. This spreads the load as much as possible onto both sides of the frame. Pulling on just one side turns the bumper into a lever trying to bend the frame.

Don, won't this method put stress on the frame pulling both sides inwards? Or does the cross bracing address that so it's not worth worrying about?

Don_G
06-25-2008, 02:15 AM
Don, won't this method put stress on the frame pulling both sides inwards? Or does the cross bracing address that so it's not worth worrying about?

Doug, yes it does stress the bumper that direction, but it's in tension, so I don't worry about it.

Don - Doug suggested DOM over HREW. While DOM is stronger (and more expensive), do you think that would have made a difference on your bumper? or was a more a case of poor design?

Chalkie, both the Marlin and All-Pro bumpers seem to be made about the same as far as design. I think both products have been designed to a price dictated by market pressures. I would gladly pay the extra $100 and 5# it would add to the cost of the bumper to get the shackle mounts and gussets incorporated at the factory, but I suspect most folks never actually use these bumpers off road - and most don't scratch 'em if they do.

I don't know what the relative yield strength of DOM over HREW is, so I can't say if the cost difference is worth it, or if it would have made a difference. I didn't think I was bumping it that hard. Neither Molly or Eric were surprised it was bent. I expected it to be scratched and scarred, but not bent. Molly was in the truck with me - if she'd been videoing it we'd have some objective info. :missingto

I looked it up. You have to be careful when ordering and specifying metal - the devil is in the details. However, 1020 DOM tubing has over twice the yield strength of 1010 HREW (70 KSI vs 32 KSI). I would always use DOM for anything I personally build: it costs twice as much, but is twice as strong for the same weight. I suspect that if my bumper had been DOM it would not have bent, but I can't prove that.

I think Off Road Solutions in Arvada uses DOM for everything.