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Synthetic Winchline

15K views 103 replies 16 participants last post by  GatorTaco 
#1 · (Edited)
I found this while over on Pirate- The prices seem good, but I'm curious if anybody else has worked with JeepSwag/Dominion OffRoad before. I don't want to skimp on a rope or get something that won't last. Thanks

link to site
 
#5 ·
Definitely worth asking.

I was thinking of buying one of the Viking Safety thimbles and see if he'd put that on the end instead of one of the hooks.

But supposedly it's easy to do yourself with synthetic? I'm not sure.. seems important and not something for the inexperienced lol
 
#6 ·
I saw that on pirate as well. He mentioend he was working on getting safety thimbles in stock. Once he does I might bite and replace my steel.

Also for those of you who are buying... what lengths are you getting? I hear people are buying shorter than the stock 120'?

I hear it lets u winch closer to the end of the spool for more juice. Then most people carry some kind of extension if you really do need the extra length.
 
#8 ·
I was looking at the Superwinch EPi 9.0 that comes with 125 ft. of 21/64... I want 120 feet of synthetic but am afraid 120' of 3/8 won't fit.. I was going to research it and call Superwinch if I didn't find what I needed.

colin has a thimble on his .. you could ask him, but i think he bought it with it on there.
Thanks! Will do!
 
#9 ·
Is there anyway you could incorporate a Safety Spindle in place of your other options?

Also- do you think 120' of 3/8 would fit on a drum that comes stock with 125 ft. of 21/64? It's the Superwinch EPi 9.0 specifically.. I was going to check with the manufacturer prior to ordering from you :)
Yup, I will have safety thimbles next week. They will be an extra $39.

I believe that 125 feet will fit on that drum. If you use your winch a lot, then I'd recommend 75 to 100 feet. It increases your pulling power and you don't have as many issues with the rope bunching at one end of the drum. If you need the extra length I recommend an extension. I'll be adding extensions to the website soon.
This guy is great. super quick response times and is really getting everything everyone has asked for. I'm looking forward to doing business with them. 39 bucks also beats every other price I've seen by at least 5 bucks- not to mention not having to install it yourself.
 
#11 ·
You'd be amazed how quick you can need all that power. I have an EP9.0 also, and I've nearly stalled it pulling a ~2500lb. tractor from the mud, with maybe 2 wraps on the drum. I have 80' of 5/16" Superline on it, and a ~60' extension I made with 3/8" Amsteel Blue and Masterpull thimbles (the same ones his site shows) and a safety hook. DIY loop splices are easy, with just a little reaserch. Pretty much measure back from the end, remove 3 alternating chevrons from the braid, put it in the thimble, and use a pen (or a fid) to get it into the center of the braid and pull it through the middle. The chinese finger cuff effect is strong with 9000lbs. of pull! :D

His prices are only a few bucks higher than what it would cost me to get 3/8" Amsteel and the same thimble/hook, looks like a good deal. And I can get Amsteel cheaper per foot locally than most of the online winch line makers, so that's impressive.
 
#12 ·
Very nice find. I'm looking to buy a synthetic line and that price is very comparable with a 5/16" X 100' of Amsteel. Problem is that the 5/16 is at 13,000 breaking stregnth.
 
#16 ·
hmm, 8000# winch...13,000# line...what's the problem? 5/16" cable is only rated for 9800# ;) used my 125' 5/16" extension pulling Dale's rig out.

for the other guy...either 125' of 5/16" or 100' of 3/8" will fit on a 9000# winch.
 
#17 ·
For you folks that do not seem to understand how a "vehicle recovery winch" is rated. There is a formula, it is not the tension that the winch can put on the line. The true "pull" is generally substantially less than 1/2 the rating.

winch rating = the free rolling load in lbs, that can be pulled up a smooth 20-30 degree incline (I forget the exact degrees)

An 8000lb recovery winch if used (improperly) as a hoist would be lucky to "lift" 3500lbs. Doesn't sound like much but thats the way it is. This is the reason you will see say, 5K or so, rated hooks from the factory on an 8000lb winch.
Overkill on lines and hooks should be viewed as covering for wear, jerks/jolts in the recovery process, sharp rocks, useable lifespan and a degree of safety factor for your precious rig and life.
 
#18 ·
#19 ·
Yep, that's the mostest of the bestest, all in one place recovery guide one will ever find. Still all the rating specs are "lifting" specs.
I just did a quick Google for "winch rating" and did not find the formula I had seen in the past. I did find one that looks scarier.

http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/images/ebay/whichwinch.pdf

The first table wants one to believe a 10k winch is beyond its capacity pulling a 5k rolling load up a smooth 11 deg or 20% incline. Yea right. So the truth to a "vehicle recovery winch" rating must be somewhere in the middle and there may not be a "universally accepted" formula at all, as the Pirate fellow implies.

Food for thought. My USA made 8k Ramsey came with 5/16" cable and a 5/16" USA made hook. A 5/16 "trade size" sling hook in grade 80, the lifting industry standard, is rated to "lift" 3500lbs and in grade 100 it's 5700lbs. There is however a substantial safety factor in the "lifting" rating. This cable/hook combo is pretty common on an 8k winch. The 5/16" cable (brand new and in perfect condition) is rated to BREAK at somewhere around 1800lbs beyond the winches capacity. Not much saftey factor there if the winch could actually put 8000lbs of tension on the line.
 
#20 ·
hmm, we got the incline pull requirements (about 24,000# of pulling power) for Dale's recovery from that 'book' :confused: 3 winches working together with and everyone having a radio did the trick. We had to stop and reset all the lower rigging every 30' or so.
 
#21 ·
Synthetic Winch Rope

Hey Guys, Just found this thread. Thanks for all the props on the winch rope. I'm not site sponsor here, so I'll keep my posts as answers to questions that you guys have.

I wanted to point out one important detail about the winch rope that I offer. It's made of Technora, which is a more expensive fiber. This helps eliminate the issue of heat on a synthetic winch rope. Most synthetic winch ropes are made from Dyneema. Dyneema starts to break down at temps of about 150 degrees. Winch drums, when de-spooling with the motor, get much hotter than that. Technora doesn't start to see any heat issues until about 400 degrees. The only other Technora winch rope manufacturer who uses Technora is Ramsey.

I'll keep an eye on the thread and am happy to help.

Brett
 
#23 ·
UPDATE
Turns out most manufacturers are now using actual line "pull" in their ratings. The kicker is this. Along with the rating applying to the 1st line layer, they use cables and most importantly a power supply that will deliver all the amps the winch wants with NO voltage drop. That's like 4 parallel flux capacitors running on unobtainium.

And that Brett fellow from Dominion has the best winch line deal going. Also his shipping and email response is super fast.
 
#43 ·
Brett, one more ?

Would you be so good as to PM me if/when you come up with a workable chafe guard and would you mind posting up what you are looking for in a guard?
I have been kicking around the industrial supply houses here and have seen some braided nylon hose with various types of liners. Similar to fire hose but down in the 1"-1.5" O.D. range and pretty supple. Also saw a garden hose that was braided nylon and seemingly ironed flat so as to be compactly stored on a reel. You have probably seen them in the sailing biz. It had some kind of liner (I suspect vinyl) but it was not stated and I have no idea yet as to what would "rub" nicely against the Technora.

Thanks
Watching for UPS
 
#44 ·
The chafe guard that I am working on is made of Nylon webbing and is removable. It's a great material, but I need to get some more field testing done on the design.

I've worked on a couple of firehose type designs. One of the large hose manufacturer's makes an unlined 1.5" hose. The issue with hose is that when spooled in under load, it binds. The binding can make it very difficult to de-spool. It can get so bad, that you can't pull it out by hand. That's why manufacturers have steered away from it.

So yes, I'll be happy to post up as soon as I have a good solution designed and tested.
 
#46 ·
Brett, one more ?

Would you be so good as to PM me if/when you come up with a workable chafe guard and would you mind posting up what you are looking for in a guard?
I have been kicking around the industrial supply houses here and have seen some braided nylon hose with various types of liners. Similar to fire hose but down in the 1"-1.5" O.D. range and pretty supple. Also saw a garden hose that was braided nylon and seemingly ironed flat so as to be compactly stored on a reel. You have probably seen them in the sailing biz. It had some kind of liner (I suspect vinyl) but it was not stated and I have no idea yet as to what would "rub" nicely against the Technora.

Thanks
Watching for UPS

Terry,

I think you posted in another thread about what is the biggest pin you can fit in the crush proof thimble.

I've been talking with Brett, he gave me this link:

http://www.jeepswag.com/winchline/winchline_assemblies/index.htm#shackleincrushproofthimble

Just ordered 75'

-P
 
#47 ·
Phill,

Thanks for the reply. He sent me that link also. However, my 75' has arrived and NONE of my 3/4" shackle bodies (WLL 6.5T) will fit thru but ALL the pins WILL. Although the hole is not round it measures 7/8" so it is very close. Heck, the variance in the thickness of the powder coat could determine a go or no go, it is that close. As far as the bodies fitting, I think it will come down to "some brands will and some brands won't". The bodies of my 5/8" shackles (WLL 4.5T) fit fine.

I like to run the pin thru the shackle, with spacers to keep things centered. This allows strap loops to lay in the big end of the shackle more comfortably so life is good for me.

I have been playing around with various methods of fastening to the drum and tried to fuse the "bitter end" with a lighter and it would not melt, cool! Have you thought about how you are going to fasten yours?

On the chafe guard, my concerns lie mainly when winching another vehicle where the line must rub (unavoidable) on something as it is pulled in. In a self recovery w/o a snatch block, just about anything, like a carpet scrap, could be used if the line must lay against a rock.

I am very pleased with the line and the service from Dominion. As a small business he tries harder.
 
#52 ·
I like that one but can make one out of some 1" nylon strap on the sewing machine for less than $9 :D
 
#53 ·
I'm sure it's getting down to splitting hairs but I don't care for any of the termination methods that rely on the initial coils of line compressing on the tag end to do the job and I'll tell you why.
As subsequent layers of line are laid on top of the first, the compression effect could actually loosen the initial wraps when they are re-exposed with or without a pretty ribbon. Any loss of tension in the first 5-8 critical wraps could result in a really bad day. With the line anchored hard and fast the first wraps will re-tighten and slippage from loose wraps for whatever reason is a non issue.
 
#54 ·
I agree that the outer layers will loosen the critical wraps. However there is a chinese finger cuff effect here. By the time that you are back down to the critical wraps, they are re-tightened by the higher number of critical wraps. The idea is to put the tag end of the rope under the critical wrap that has the most tension on it. With the tag end held tight it becomes self tightening.

This is a time tested method, that I've never heard of failing. If I ever heard of a failure, I'll change my opinion and go back to the drawing board.

BTW, I agree your method is better. I just never seen it required.


I'm sure it's getting down to splitting hairs but I don't care for any of the termination methods that rely on the initial coils of line compressing on the tag end to do the job and I'll tell you why.
As subsequent layers of line are laid on top of the first, the compression effect could actually loosen the initial wraps when they are re-exposed. Any loss of tension in the first 5-8 critical wraps could result in a really bad day. With the line anchored hard and fast this is a non issue.
 
#61 ·
#62 ·
I've been wondering if I should start selling shackles. Guess this is another reason to offer them. I have a shackle that fits easily both ways.

WLL 4.75 Ton
Proof load is 19,000 lbs.
Minimum Ultimate load is 57,000 lbs.

I can sell these for $18 each. Does that seem like a winner to you guys?

this from the manufacturer:

• Shackles are Type Approved by DNV &. ABS
• Shackles are forged carbon steel with alloy pin.
• Safe and Working Load Limit permanently shown on each shackle.
• All shackle with Batch Code which links to Test Certificate and quality traceability.
• 100% magnaflux crack detection during manufacturing
• 20,000 cycle fatigue rated to 1.5 times Working
Load Limit
 
#63 ·
I would be definately interested. What is the width for the opening where the shackle pin goes? I would assume the same as the ones I posted, just a smaller body that's able to fit in?

I also saw on Pirate you were making fairleads. It would probably be a good idea to offer a fairlead that has the slot 5/8" higher than the mounting holes. This would be for winches that have the feet mounted in the front (basically the feet mount to the front of the bumper)

Regular fairleads just let the winchline rub the whole time. With the slot mounted 5/8" up, this eliminates this problem.
 
#65 ·
I'll order some shackles in and get them up on the website.

I'm not making fairleads yet, but it's in the works. What do you guys think of the delrin hawse fairleads? I've never hard any feed back on the, but it seems like a good idea. Columbia doesn't sell them cheap, but if I make them I'd be able to work on the price.

http://www.columbiariveroff-road.com/Fairleads.htm

Great info. on the fastener offset. I'm using a Ramsey fairlead and it looks like this (not the best pic, but note the two sets of holes):
 
#64 ·
Phill, do you mean like this. http://www.spidertrax.com/s.nl/it.A/id.2328/.f (Not sure if you are implying that you already have it licked or not with your custom bumper.)
I just happen to have a Ramsey in a TJM, but that offset seems to be needed with allot of winches mounted feet first in ARBs and TJMs. Check out EP, relevant posts start at #30. http://expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5995&page=3
All (about 3) of the brands around seem to be identical with different names engraved on them and have the same offset regardless of what the seller states.

Did you think about spreading the thimble just a hair? Not enough to crack the coating. Heck that coating is going to get worn off (inside) on the first use anyway.

Also the "heavy duty stainless steel" traditional thimbles have a huge opening. I got a few to allow my old steel cable to be used as an adjustable length extension.
 
#66 ·
Did you think about spreading the thimble just a hair? Not enough to crack the coating. Heck that coating is going to get worn off (inside) on the first use anyway.

Also the "heavy duty stainless steel" traditional thimbles have a huge opening. I got a few to allow my old steel cable to be used as an adjustable length extension.
I do spread them open a bit for when I splice a standard shackle on, so yes it can be done. I could do them before powder coating too. The problem is that it starts to create an edge that the rope can wear on. Most all of the winch ropes that I sell, ship with a hook anyway.

I'd like to see the SS thimble that you're using. I can get the crush proof thimbles in SS, but the cost is outrageous. Other than that, I've never seen a SS thimble that's nearly as beefy as the crush proof thimbles. Always looking for a better mouse trap though.
 
#70 ·
that's what I have on my extensions...they crush rather easily :p
I can still get a pin through them, however...but only because I use 3/4" shackles.
 
#76 ·
any updates on dominion making straight-up extension ropes? just want what you already offer but with a crushproof thimble on both ends! thanks!
 
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