Rear Shackle and Deaver 7 Leaf Pack question

[Anthony250]

Im currently running Deaver 7 replacement leaf pack is still in decent shape , also using 6.5" lift shackles and Bilstien 12" short bodies with air bumps. It rides really great but since i added the shackles i see the leaf pack has more negative dearch on bump and more axle wrap. Is it a good idea to remove the shackles and add another leaf in to the pack? Or other ideas to help or negative dearch and axle wrap?

[Jaw-Knee]

You can always send it to deaver and get it rebuilt with another leaf. Last time I checked which was 3 years ago, they were gonna charge me $185. Not sure what they will charge now. Give them a call. Really good customer service!

[Anthony250]

Originally Posted by Jaw-Knee

You can always send it to deaver and get it rebuilt with another leaf. Last time I checked which was 3 years ago, they were gonna charge me $185. Not sure what they will charge now. Give them a call. Really good customer service!

Thnks for the info but I spent most of the budget haha, but I cab get a set leafs to add in the pack from a friend for free .

[alpha_nett]

this is definitely the long answer to your question, but read this thread:
http://ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=186334

if you go to one of my last posts in that thread I reiterate a good formula to start from. A=B+C

if A is longer than B+C then you will potentially be gaining some height from the shackle and your up travel will be limited.

If A is shorter than B+C then you will potentially get the wrapping of your leaf pack.

that thread is very experimental though. The equation is a general starting point that seems to have worked some guys, to include racers.

Best of luck with your suspension
-sean

[Land Pirates Off Road]

Have to agree ^ but there is also something else to think about. In general, you want the shortest spring shackle you can for stability and you do not want your springs to go into negative arch very much, like in 1/2 inch at the most.
For spring rate changes and for lift, that is what the spring companies do, add or subtract springs. So feel free to play with adding or taking out spring leafs. Just do not remove the ones with the keepers. They are there to keep the springs from shifting.
We add and subtract single leafs all the time. Works well. Just make sure they are placed right and are the same width as the original springs.
Also, if you are getting spring wrap up, you will need a traction bar set up. Having the right spring rate will make this an issue with out one.
Another note, if you are getting negative spring arch, lower your bump so you will not. It is not about travel numbers, it is about set up and control. Just take a look at Dan Vance's truck running 14 inches of travel up front or any of the short course trucks running 12 to 14 inches... They are driving crazy... So do not get to caught up in travel numbers, be more concerned with control and set up.
Hope that helps!

[alpha_nett]

Originally Posted by Land Pirates Off Road

Another note, if you are getting negative spring arch, lower your bump so you will not. It is not about travel numbers, it is about set up and control. Just take a look at Dan Vance's truck running 14 inches of travel up front or any of the short course trucks running 12 to 14 inches... They are driving crazy... So do not get to caught up in travel numbers, be more concerned with control and set up.
Hope that helps!

I agree ^^^
more travel is better for sure, but it is like having horse power without torque if you dont have the control and handling to go with it.

from all the data I have collected, I would say the only negative arch that is good is NONE! negative arch means that your shackles are now moving in the opposite direction, which in turn is now pushing your axle forward and down into the ground. this seems very simple to me as a bad thing (this counter acts the goal of the suspension as it compresses)

if you want big travel numbers, follow Helton's truck with the 52.5" mounting spread with the 62.5" leaf springs. I have that on my truck and im pulling 20" from hitting the frame (without negative arch) to the straps.

but again as Land Pirates Off Road said, handling is everything, and I am NOT happy with my handling at all. adjustments will be made soon to my truck.

[sirhk100]

Originally Posted by Land Pirates Off Road

if you are getting spring wrap up, you will need a traction bar set up. Having the right spring rate will make this an issue with out one.

Can be fixed with shock placement and good valving.


Also, I've gone as much as 2" negative spring arch. I've never in my life broke a leaf spring on a personal vehicle.

Beyond that, I've been in a race with a broken leaf where we continued not even knowing it had happened and passed another 6 vehicles in the process. The harmonic balancer coming apart eventually is what put us on the side of the course broke down and while waiting on chase to bring us parts, that's when we actually noticed the leaf. Who knows how much further we'd have gone till we had a noticeable leaf spring issue. LOL

(BTW, how do I know we passed vehicles when the leaf spring was already broken if we didn't even know it was broke to begin with? We found out where SGG was taking photos vs. where we finally stopped. That's not the tail pipe behind the rear tire, that's the main leaf sticking out the back of the jeep in this picture.

)

I know some of you are striving for this insanely engineered perfection build but I often can't help but wonder if sometimes you need to just go get your hands dirty, figure it out in reality rather then on paper and get it done so you can go have fun in the dirt. The comment about the axle moving forward as it's going negative sort of has me laughing. Technically, yes you're right but if you think that by the seat of your pants you can tell any difference caused by that movement I'd say you're on drugs.

BTW, just curious, has anyone actually called Deaver, National, Atlas, American Spring or Skips Spring Service to see what they say about negative arch and how much you can possibly get away with under what conditions?

Also, you have to consider spring use and prep. Someone like helton who had his leafs prepped between every race vs. someone that doesn't even lube their bushings, installs and forgets it... Those two people can get away with different spring setups and pushing their springs harder vs. more mellow reliable setup.

Not at bump yet here, time will tell how they hold up I guess.