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Desert DD Expo

33K views 52 replies 14 participants last post by  fnl4rw29r 
#1 · (Edited)
Several months ago I bought a 2004 SR5 V6 4x4 5 spd Taco. I had always enjoyed exploring and camping the desert back country in the desert Southwest. I had a 1994 Jeep YJ previously that was a lot of fun on the trail but as a daily driver, no fun at all. The Tacoma is my only vehicle so while I had visions of building it to go anywhere (the approach that was taken with my YJ), I wanted to learn from the mistakes (which made the Jeep less than street-able) I made before. I wanted to build a vehicle that was equally at home on the trail as on the street. While this vehicle will probably not be going on month long trips through Baja, it will be taking me on long camping and hunting trips. With that said, I'm not sharing this to teach you how to build an all out expedition rig. I am hoping to share my trials and tribulations in hopes that you will take what I've done and improve upon it and maybe even learn something if these are the same intentions you have with your truck. If there's something that I could have done better or something you would have done different, please don't hesitate to post so that I and others can learn! Here is my truck the day I drove it home.



Here's how it sits as of now.

 
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#2 · (Edited)
Roof Rack

Having helped plenty of people move in my day, I know how stuff can be stacked in a truck bed. My truck has a cap on the bed. I like the cap because I can keep my stuff out of the elements while on the trail and secure while in town (well... at least more secure than an open bed). I quickly learned that the stuff that I'm accustom to fitting in a truck bed, no longer fit with the cap. I want a roof rack. The Yakima Mega Warrior is the same length and width as my bed. I don't have any pictures of the install but I do have one of the final product. My intention was to keep the control towers as close to the Mega Warrior mounts as possible so the load was better transfered from rack to cap. Unfortunately, I was forced to mount the control towers about 6-7" outside of the mounts due to the thick honeycomb that is laminated inside my cap (of course I drilled 2 holes before realizing it wasn't going to work). So far I'm happy with the rack. All of the Yakima accessories will mount on the Mega Warrior so there is no need to remove it from the cross bars if you want to transport a canoe or bike.

About to float down the Madison River in Montana.
 
#4 · (Edited)
I have been paying attention to that. I definately noticed an increase in wind noise. The front fairing helps that a lot. The big problem is that about the same time I installed the rack is about the same time I began running the A/C. The next problem is the tire size has since changed and now that it's cooling off and I'm no longer running the A/C, I still can't tell how big the change in MPG was. Sorry I'm no help...

UPDATE: I have now done enough driving without variables that I can tell you what I see with and without the rack. With the rack I put 800 miles on the truck nearly exclusively to and from work all highway at 70 mph. I got 17.3 mpg average with no A/C according to my odometer (not stock tire size but close). I then put about 600 miles on it without the rack under the same conditions. I got almost exactly 18 mpg average. I then put about 600 miles on it without the cap and got 18.2 mpg average.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Tires

The morons at Findlay Toyota who thought my truck needed smaller tires than originally equipped are a big reason I moved quickly to swap out the undercarriage. The other big reason was the 70,000 miles on the original shocks. I'll do this in sections starting with tires.

Tires:
This took me longer to decide on than the suspension. As I mentioned, I did not want to make it uncomfortable to drive every day. Having driven mudders on my daily driver before, I was hesitant to go that aggressive as to retain some fuel economy, tread life, and peace and quiet. Ultimately I ended up with the BFG All Terrains. I've had them before and other than their incredible ability to pick up rocks and spit them out several miles later and tread chunking off in sharp rocks, I kind of liked 'em. Size was the hardest decision. I read about how most of these hardcore expo rigs are running the 255/85 R16s. They look good. They're probably great off road with 5.29 gears. I did not want to regear. My truck had 255/70 R16 on it (265/70 is stock) and with 4.10s in the diffs it felt like I needed a 6th (maybe 7th?) gear while commuting to work. I wanted something in the ball park of a 265/75 R16 and a 33x10.5. I'd seen the write ups of people running the 33's and how much they'd rub at full stuff. I wanted to be able to cram those tires into the wells without much more than a pinch weld mod. I also seem to be doing a lot of trips down to the lake running through really soft sand and wanted a little bit of extra float. I ended up with 32x11.5s on Wheeler 15" Type Bs. They fit in the wheel wells great. I tried really hard to get them to rub and barely got the front driver side to brush the pinch weld. Easy fix.

Here's the 32x11.5 next to the 255/70 R16


This is the clearance between wheel and caliper. WOW!


Here's the rear's clearance at full flex. Perfect.




After some serious aerobatics, I've now gotten the fronts to rub substantially. You can see how much contact there is with the wheel well after slamming the bump stops during a rather rough landing. This was with the wheels perfectly straight. Same damage on either side (the little plastic clip was actually ripped out on the driver side).

 
#6 ·
Front Suspension

Front:
I knew I wanted a suspension system, not just a lift kit, so spacers were quickly ruled out. I had read extensively into the coil-over packages that Donahoe (now Icon Vehicle Dynamics) and Sway A Way produced and also into non-adjustable setups like Old Man Emu. I decided to go with an adjustable because at some point I want to have a bull bar. The OME springs come in different rates which is nice, but if in 6 months I decide I want to add a ton of weight (especially with a winch) to the front of my truck, I'll need to order new springs again while with the IVDs or SAWs I can just crank 'em up a little higher. I ultimately ended up buying the IVDs. Not because they're superior to SAW (that is a huge argument that you can read about elsewhere on this forum as I found out during my research). I really only ended up with the IVDs because I got an incredible deal on them and free shipping from Wheelers. I'm writing this about 5K miles after install and so far, so good! They settled just a little bit (probably less than half an inch) and softened up nicely. When I first installed them, they were quite stiff (compared to the Cadillacesque ride I was dealing with before). Body roll almost completely went away and I was no longer slamming bump stops going down US95 at 60 mph.

Here's the IVD next to the stock spring and shock


Here's the brake line clearance. It hits (even after gently pummeling it with a hammer but I don't think I can break it off while turning/ flexing)


Here's what I have after the IVDs were on with the new 32x11.5 R15s (stock rear setup still)
 
#7 · (Edited)
Rear Suspension

Rear:
I wanted to gain some ground clearance while gaining some flex but without sacrificing too much carrying capacity. I shied away from the Deaver and Alcan 8 leaves because 1) I heard (emphasis on heard... I have no experience with these springs) they lifted a little too much if there was nothing in the bed and 2) because I wanted to maintain my ability to haul a heavy load. I went with the Wheeler 5 leaf packs with the overload spring (built by Alcan for Wheeler's). They flex plenty (they're the springs twisted up in the rear tire clearance picture) and ride great. The shocks are Bilstein 5125s. Enough people were running them and I've heard nothing but good things about them so figured I couldn't go wrong. Happy so far. Again, about 5K miles since install on and off road and the improvement over the worn out stock springs and Tokico shocks is amazing. It eats up washboard, twists through the boulder patches, and handles everyday commuting beautifully. I also took this time to add an extended rear brake line and greasable shackles.

Here's what I've got so far: IVDs front, Wheeler 5 leafs, 32x11.5 R15


Rear all flexed out at Wheeler Pass, Mt Charleston, NV. Sway bar not disconnected, left rear sitting on bump stops (stock- not extended), all 4 wheels still on ground.


Extended Brake Line



***UPDATE*** I BROKE THESE SPRINGS. See post 51 in this thread
 
#9 ·
Nice. I had the 5125's for 64K, mind you im a mall crawler. Two weeks ago i got this clunking noise going over bumps. Comming to find out the shaft that goes to the bottom of the shock that mounts to the axel broke off...even mall crawlers can get carnage....haha. So i replaced them with ICON remote resevior shocks...wow.
 
#10 ·
...even mall crawlers can get carnage.....
HA! That's good. I've read really good things about those remote reservoir Icons. I didn't go with them ultimately because I didn't think I'd be cycling them fast enough over long periods of time to justify the coin. Glad you like 'em. We'll see how long my Bilsteins last and I may end up with some remote reservoirs under there yet.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Cb

My old man had a CB that was in his truck about 2 trucks ago and hasn't used it since. After little sweet talking, it was mine. It's too wide to mount in the ash tray location (which I think is pretty slick having seen other people mount it there). The only place that kept it (mostly) out of the way and relatively clean looking was next to the T-Case lever. I pulled the boot cover housing thing, which comes off pretty easy, and drilled the mounting holes. I used self tapping screws into the plastic. After repeated impacts from the passenger seat slamming into it, I need to change to nut and bolt because it's getting pretty loose. I have a cheap mag-mount, don't even know what brand, that I put on the roof right smack in the middle and run the cable out the driver side rear window (I have an X-Cab). I hooked up a friend's watt meter to check the SWR and the mounting location is absolutely perfect. Didn't have to change a thing. I had 4 watts forward and the needle didn't even move when looking at the reflected power (it was a 50 watt meter so the resolution wasn't that great).
The biggest problem with the mounting location is not the passenger seat hitting it when accessing the back seat (it barely hits). It's the T-Case lever vibrating against the volume knob while in 4 low on extremely rough terrain. It rubs on the knob and eventually turns the CB off. Not a big deal if you're using it to talk to truckers on road (because you're in 2wd) or if it's only for emergencies but if you're on a trail ride trying to listen to everybody, it gets kind of annoying.

Here's the CB location


****UPDATE****
I have since abandoned this CB in favor of the Uniden 520XL in the ashtray location.
See post 53 for writeup.
 
#12 ·
Antenna

As I mentioned, I had been using a mag-mount on top of the cab. Works great but I was tired of knocking it off on low hanging trees (yes we do have trees out here). Surprisingly I only once had it fall off while bombing down a trail @ about 70 mph. I ordered a Wilson 4' antenna and a hood channel mounting bracket. I wasn't a big fan of mounting it on the hood and wanted to mount it out back in the tailgate channel (I realize the hood provides a better ground plane). The install, I think, looks pretty clean.

Antenna mount:



I ran the co-ax down the frame rail with the factory wiring loom and into the cab through the grommet behind the driver's side rear seat. I drilled a small hole and cut a slit in order to slide the cable up into the grommet. I ran the cable under the rear seat, behind the interior side panel, under the carpet, under the door entry guard thing, under the front floor mat, in front of the sticks and into the CB. I would have liked to run the cable under the dash and over to the CB but 20' of cable wasn't enough to reach.

Cable into cab:


I don't know a whole lot about tuning antenna other than you should have a decent ground plane and to adjust the antenna length until the SWR is low enough so that nothing burns up when transmitting. I did not expect this mounting solution to work nearly as well as the roof top mount, but I did expect it to work well enough to be used on trail rides and talking to truckers while making passes or being passed on the road. Well... I can't adjust the antenna enough. I have nearly 50% power reflected back into the CB! Not sure if this is because the ground plane sucks or if maybe my roof rack is too close (roof rack is not grounded however). It is still mounted there but I use the mag mount temporarily until I can figure out what to do. Any suggestions? I'll try anything.
 
#13 · (Edited)
Pinch Weld Mod

There are plenty of threads on how to do this so I'm not going to go into too much detail. I waited for a while before doing this mod because I wanted to let the springs settle a little and rub a bit to get a witness mark so that I didn't cut and hammer more than necessary.

Here's the witness marks:


That was all Could manage to do. I do not intend to disconnect my sway bar so there's only so much front end articulation I'm going to achieve while crawling through the boulders. I'm pretty sure these marks came from me running a trail fast and hard and having the wheels turned slightly when I loaded up the suspension.

I first cut away the plastic fender liner


I then cut the bottom of the weld off


Then I hammered the rest flat and painted it to prevent rust where the paint had chipped.


Update: When your truck leaves the ground but doesn't make it into low Earth orbit, it will come down. After coming down, the suspension travels really, really far if your landing was not meticulously planned. I've since gotten the front wheels to rub much harder as seen in my "Wheels" post (http://www.ttora.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1782762&postcount=5)
 
#14 · (Edited)
Compressor

I want on board air for two reasons: 1) to air tires back up after the trail and 2) to run the air lockers I eventually want to install. I ordered myself the Viair OBA setup for my truck. I got the 400C compressor (33% duty cycle), 2.5 gallon tank, and the 85-105 psi pressure switch. I went with this switch because ARB doesn't recommend more than 100psi in their lockers in order to keep from prematurely blowing seals. I don't want to mount anything in the bed because I want to retain my cargo space (remember this is still to remain a daily driver and should be able to accomplish the tasks of any other truck). I ultimately installed the compressor under the passenger side rear seat. It fits perfectly. I had intended to be able to retain the spare tire tool mounting location but due to my incredible ability to measure once and cut twice, it ended up a little too low. The tools will still fit below it, but they're a little too close and I'm afraid the bag will melt to the compressor case.

Here's the compressor installed under the seat:


Although it fits great, getting it bolted up there is a HUGE pain. If I ever need to remove it for any reason, I'm taking the entire panel out of the truck. I used locking washers all the way around as well as locking nuts to keep it from rattling loose. Hopefully I never have to remove it or retighten it. I did pull the carpet up to keep all the mounting hardware hidden. I also had to build an aluminum bracket to mount the compressor horizontally because the panel it is bolted to is not vertical. Sorry I didn't get any pictures of it before bolting it in. I can probably drop my camera in there with the timer set to get some pics of it if anyone is interested.

I still need to wire it up, install the gauge (the Lo-Tek gauge pod just came yesterday!) and install the tank. I am open to recommendations for tank mounting location. I had intended to mount it under the truck in front of the fuel tank when I ordered it. I don't like how the drain cock will be hanging out waiting to get ripped off by some rock so now I'm unsure of what to do. I don't really want to put it in the bed, but I will if it wont fit anywhere else.
 
#17 ·
Lo-Tek gauge pod

Just finished installing my new gauge pod. I really only got it to mount the pressure gauge for the OBA but it only came in a 2 gauge unit so I mounted a voltmeter to go with it. Viair includes a mounting bracket for the gauge with the hookup kit that they sell but I couldn't find a really good and clean place to mount it in that configuration. The hardest part was routing the damn air line from under the back seat, under the carpet, under the dash and to the gauge. That tubing is super stiff and hard to work with. It has a ridiculous memory and after being coiled up at the warehouse for who knows how long before I got it, it refuses to lay flat and straight. Here's the results:

All gauges hooked up. Ready to install.


Gauges in the pod. Notice the two small LEDs right above the voltmeter. My plan is to hook them up to the switch for the auxiliary lights that will be installed soon. The green one is for the forward lights, the red one is for the rear lights. This is so I don't end up driving off the trail onto the road with the auxiliaries going or blinding someone on the trail because I forgot to turn the rear ones off. (I'll post this install when I actually get around to doing it)


All finished!
 
#18 ·
Nice project. I have done similar mods to my '03. I am getting close to completing my projects. A few more little things and I will post progress like you have done here. Great write up.

Questions: 1. Where did you get the gauge pod?
2. Where did you make the connections for the volt gauge?

LaytBra
 
#19 · (Edited)
Questions: 1. Where did you get the gauge pod?
2. Where did you make the connections for the volt gauge?

LaytBra
Thanks for the response!

1)The gauge pod is from Lo-Tek. Their website is www.gaugepods.com

2)The connection for the voltage gauge is the same as I did for the key-on power for my CB. It simply needs to see voltage from any unregulated +12V source (unregulated not including the regulator housed in the alternator of course). There are these neat little add-a-circuit doo-dads that split a circuit in your fuse panel into two circuits AND fuses the new circuit. Super simple, clean, and they work.
 
#20 ·
Wiring Gremlins...

So I finally got around to hooking up the gauge lights for my auxiliary gauges. I obtained a wiring diagram for my truck so that I could wire the lights into the rheostat so they would come on and dim with the rest of the gauge cluster. The first thing I noticed was that instead of a white/ green wire I had a yellow/ green. I wasn't too concerned with this since the other two wires were the correct color. My problem is that when I spliced into the wire out of the rheostat, the lights in the auxiliary gauges worked backwards from the rest of the cluster... Yea, they came on but only when I dimmed out the rest of the lights. In other words, when I dimmed the instrument cluster the aux gauges brightened and when I brightened the instrument cluster the aux gauges dimmed. Anybody have some advice? I have them hooked up to the power in to the rheostat right now so they come on with the headlights but don't dim.
 
#21 ·
Reverse the wires?

I'd have to see a diagram to tell you more, I havent seen how these are wired up.

Nice looking truck though, there are definitely some ideas there that I would like to end up using in the future :)
 
#26 ·
Thanks! I'm way South between Seven Hills and Southern Highlands.

tacos are backwards, the rheostat controls the ground not the power
Ahhhh.... But it still lit up. Wouldn't I have no lights on at all if both ends were grounded or am I missing something? If I hook the + for the lights to a hot with key on and the ground to the rheostat it should work correctly?

Nice taco! Is there a lot of wheeling around the vegas area? I was thinking of planning a road trip there and would love to do the stuff you're doing.
The place I used to run my Jeep in high school just became a conservation area "Closed to all mechanized vehicles including (but not limited to): Mountain Bikes, Hang Gliders, and Horse Drawn Carriages." There's still some stuff within reasonable distance. Theres a trail up over Red Rock down into Lovell Canyon, Wheeler Pass over Mt Charleston, Burrow Wash down to the Colorado River, if you want to drive a little farther Logandale has some really good aggressive stuff but it might be getting close to shut down too from what I hear. If you're serious about finding some trails, I can send you some maps with arrows and bullseyes.

Nice. I've done similar things to my truck for similar reasons. took it to burning man last year (where i manged to lock the keys in it while it was running and had to break in with a coat hangar). any future plans? bumpers? winch?
AH! I give an extra set of keys to one of my camp mates before we even hit the road because I'm terrified of losing my keys. Lots of future plans. Waiting for work to be a little less turbulent before I drop some cash on ARB lockers. Also want to throw rock sliders under it and wire up some auxiliary lights (which I have -lights not sliders- just need time to do). Bumper and winch are on my wish list but far enough down I really haven't done anything more than think about 'em.

Thanks all for the replies.
 
#25 ·
Nice. I've done similar things to my truck for similar reasons. took it to burning man last year (where i manged to lock the keys in it while it was running and had to break in with a coat hangar). any future plans? bumpers? winch?
 
#28 ·
Busy, busy, busy! Unfortunately, not busy working on my truck.

Auxiliary guage light update: I tried every combination of +, -, and wires in and out of the rheostat possible. Nothing makes them work correctly with the dimmer. Reversing the + and - I didn't think would make a difference since incandescent bulbs are basically short circuits (right?) and should work in either polarity. Lo and behold, reversing the + and - made no difference. Good idea though. As of right now they are back to how I had them originally; hooked up to the power in to the rheostat and consequently have no dimming function.
 
#29 ·
so you went from: +12v---to the light---ground from light---to the correct side of the rheostat ?

because thats how it should work... methinks you got on the wrong side of the rheostat?
 
#30 · (Edited)
Air Tank

Finally got around to finishing up the on board air system... Well, I got it to the point where the compressor comes on (and shuts off), the system pressurizes, and doesn't leak anyway. Still need to bolt the tank down. Although my original intent was to lose no bed utility during this entire build, the tank had no other place to live. Again, the hardest part of the whole thing was running the damn air lines. The line exits the cab exactly the same as the CB antenna co-ax does on the other side. There is already an access point to the bed so no holes needed to be drilled. Once in the bed, the lines run under the bed rail to the back where the tank will be bolted down.

Air lines entering the bed



Air tank (final resting place but not bolted down yet)



Ok, tank bolted down. OBA complete! The way the tank mounting locations are requires the tank to sit closer to the tailgate due to the sub frame of the bed (which is visible underneath) and the way it mounts to the frame. It also had to sit away from the bed wall farther than I would have liked due to the contours of the floor of the bed. In addition, the plastic bed liner needed to be cut for tank mounting. I plumbed my tank with a coupler facing backwards to allow easy access for the hookup of a line to run tools or inflate tires. It is extremely close to the tailgate but works just fine. It actually sits just inside a contour of the plastic factory bed liner. I plan to run ARB solenoids on the wheel well side when the time comes and build some sort of cage around the whole thing to protect it from cargo. A 50' coiled hose stores nicely between the tank and bed wall as well.



UPDATE: I redid the supply line coming into the tank. In 3 years, the attachment pictured above got destroyed no less than 5 times from the normal wear and tear of using a truck bed like a truck bed. I switched the plug in the tank from rear to top and installed a 90 degree fitting in the rear. The supply line now comes in below the top of the tank where it is much better protected.

 
#31 · (Edited)
Frame Reinforcement

Eventually, I do want to add a tire carrier on the back end and shoehorn an auxiliary fuel tank in where the spare currently rides. I was already ordering sliders from Demello and figured it was a good time to spend the extra $100 (and I really wanted an excuse to weld something :welder:). The reinforcement pieces are .120" steel with lightening holes. They fit perfect around all the welds and extrusions in the frame EXCEPT the fuel filler tube mount. Not a big deal. Once the bed was off we cut the mounting bracket off and saved it for later with the intent to weld it back on over the reinforcement.

I had limited time to work each day and knew that we couldn't finish both sides in the allotted time. I got magnetic tail lights (the kind used for towing a vehicle) for $10 and stuck them to the frame. The circuit doesn't work if both tail lights are unplugged so we zip tied one to the inside of the bumper.



Tail light zipped to the bumper



We then tacked the reinforcement on



I had a bit of anxiety about welding near the gas tank. To ease my nerves, we covered it as best we could with wet shirts to cool the splatter quickly. I only have a wire feed welder so the raw welds aren't very pretty but after some heavy wire brushing they look pretty good. We then painted over them with Rustoleum Bed Liner after washing the whole thing with acetone.

Final product seasoned with a bit of dirt.



Fuel filler tube bracket reinstalled



I honestly didn't think these would do much more than transfer energy better during a rear end collision and give me worse whiplash but wow did they stiffen up the back end. There is a certain freeway around here that with the right wheelbase can really get a vehicle hopping. The truck used to feel like it was actually bending back and forth when traveling this stretch. I always thought it was just a weird sensation and that the truck couldn't actually be bending... maybe it was (I've since seen some photos of trucks broken in half). What ever it was doing it is doing it a whole lot less now that these are stuck to the sides of the frame. Are they worth it from a time, energy and financial stand point? Up to you. I certainly did enjoy installing them and am sure they'll pay dividends once I start hanging all sorts of weight off the back.
 
#46 ·
I honestly didn't think these would do much more than transfer energy better during a rear end collision and give me worse whiplash but wow did they stiffen up the back end. There is a certain freeway around here that with the right wheelbase can really get a vehicle hopping. The truck used to feel like it was actually bending back and forth when traveling this stretch. I always thought it was just a weird sensation and that the truck couldn't actually be bending... maybe it was. What ever it was doing it is doing it a whole lot less now that these are stuck to the sides of the frame. Are they worth it from a time, energy and financial stand point? Up to you. I certainly did enjoy installing them though.
still is btw...

now that you stiffened the rear portion of the frame rails...
the weak spot or most frame flex will be noticeable
just forward of the leaf spring forward perches.

Not much can be done to avoid that tho'

Set the truck down on some jack stands at that frame location...
and you will see the amount of flex still there.
Can be seen or measured by looking at the gap
between the bed and the cab. (especially noticeable if a bed shell resides)

Plating or boxing the rear rails simply stiffens things up out back
so that the rails don't crack or bend as easily when weight
is added to the farthest rear portion of the bed.

just sayin'
 
#32 ·
Sliders

I got a set of bolt on sliders from Demello Off Road. I had intended to get the all tubular pair but they already had a set of hybrids (half square, half round) built and let me have 'em for the same price. These are not light. Granted, I think these are the only sliders I've ever picked up but damn are they heavy! The bolting on was super simple. 3 out of the 4 mounting brackets utilized holes already in the frame. The 4th I drilled with a unibit after making a small pilot hole. A right angle drill head is needed to make the final hole because of the way the body hangs over the frame on the outside and the placement of the exhaust on the other. Not a big deal and it went a whole lot faster than I could have imagined. So far they haven't been used as armor but they make great steps for accessing the roof rack and tying down my canoe.

Slider mounts



Sliders from above



I was under the impression that they would hug the body a little closer and was a bit disappointed but now I think they're perfect. They extend out far enough to provided side protection if the trail gets tight through a canyon or trees (as long as you aren't tipped to the side that is).

During my deer hunt- sliders installed

 
#34 ·
Yakima Canoe Mounts

I had been talking and talking with friends about how much I wanted a canoe and how awesome it would be to have a canoe and how often we'd all go fishing if I had a canoe. Then one friend gave me a set of Yakima canoe mounts for my rack. Then I had to buy a canoe. They're simple but work pretty well. I've mobbed down the trail to our favorite put-in spot faster than a truck as heavy as mine probably should go, slid through the corners and gotten light over the crests and haven't had it shift yet. As for how it works on top of the mega warrior, the boat itself fits a bit weird. I have light mounts installed in the back for my eventual auxiliary lights so the distance between the rear mounts is limited. This makes the boat sit farther forward on the rack but more centered over the truck. The first few times out I strapped it down as you see it here.



I later built a support for over the cab out of PVC and feel much better about it.

 
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