lack of power @ 2500 RPM's

[Bear]

Okay the list goes something like this on the parts replaced:

fuel filter
Catalytic converter
o2 sensor
Maf
the two sensors on the throttle body
Muffler
timing belt
water pump
crank shaft pulley (7 broken teeth)
spark plugs
spark plug wires
new drive belts

and I am still getting a lag of power at 2500 rpms in second and third gear

Just before I shut the motor off this morning, coming into work. I got a CEL.

I'll check that tonight at the AZ on the way home, but does anyone have any ideas before hand?

To refresh everyone's memory…'97 tacoma 3.4 V6 with supercharger.

My last ditch thought is the supercharger is dying, anyone else thinks that a possibility?

[NwiTACO]

Did you check your lines [fuel] again? I don't know, is the power loss that dramatic? If so, I don't think it would be the super charger, just guessing though. Seems to me that if the sc was going out it wouldn't get worse than if it were naturally aspirated.

[Bear]

I am just running things through my head. The timing is good because it idles great, but I am also wondering if it is not the split second box that retards the timing for the ECU (piggy back)

when I put my foot in it at 2500 RPM it starts sputtering, literally so I would say it is dramatic. the boost also drops significantly but that could also be due to the motor just loosing pressure as it sputters.

The fuel lines I believe should be good. I have a steel braided line as the pressure line (left over from my power steering project). The fuel line in the tank is brand new and installed straight so it should not be collapsing as it was before. the fuel pump was pumping strong, so I can't imagine it not getting fuel. but stranger things could happen I guess.

Gadjet once told me that he was given a problem vehicle that no one could diagnose. They changed everything on it much like I have. The problem ended up being a bad fuel filter, even though it was changed out. He put a stock fuel filter on it and the problem solved it's self. Kinda has me thinking as I put in one from AZ

[brinner]

i thought we already solved this problem with a new crank position gear?

[Bear]

I thought so also. But today was the first "real world" drive. before it was merely test sprinting through the neighborhood (and my neighbors really love me for it)

anyway. I have had all day here at work to think about it, and the more I think the more I feel the fuel system is suspect. I am guessing that a fuel line is not sealed properly letting air escape into the pressure side or the fuel filter is junk even though it is brand new.

Pam is on her way to get a fuel filter from Toyota ($43 + ) and I will probably get new fuel line to replace everything under the truck.

Since I was trying to be smart and use the steel braided line I had left over from my hydro assist on my steering. I am guessing that it is not the exact size nor gives a proper "seal" onto the hard lines therefore allowing air to be sucked in addition to the fuel being pumped.

for some reason it all sounds viable to me if for no other reason that I am tired of dealing with the problem so I am convincing myself it is an over looked but easy fix.

[04trdtaco]

its a 97 do you have an egr? if you do that could be stuck open and you are getting to much exhaust gas back in the motor and its causing the hesitation. or it could be closed causing the motor to knock. im thinking since you have replaced all of those parts, that it has something to do with a egr if you have one, or im thinking you have a air getting in your fuel but if your lines are leaking im sure you would see leaking fuel in your drive way. i would see if getting a new ecu from the junkyard helps. or maybe im not the best on knowledge on the supercharger but when you are revving higher and more boost is being put in, your fuel to air ratio is so out of wack that you need to get the motor tuned.

[Bear]

Well Robert, our thinking is somewhat in line. One of the first things I thought of was an EGR. But my 97 does not have one. I actually bought one and returned it.

We completely went through the fuel system last night. I replaced the fuel filter with a "Genuine Toyota Parts" filter, replaced the fuel lines and nothing changed.

I also tightened up all the hose clamps on the fuel filler neck even though if air was getting in from that "side" I would be throwing a gas cap code which I am not.

I had it scanned yesterday on the way home from work. I got a P071 code for a second time (the first was the very first day of all the problems when the truck died on the way home from Dustin's house in which I went over to help with Crozby's lift)

Yesterday I got a print out that explained the possibilities and One had to do with the "famous" o2 sensor (already replaced) something else with the fuel delivery or the third possibility…a bad fuel injector.

But I/we also noticed the valve (not sure of the proper name) on the back of the supercharger does not seem to be remaining closed under boost.

So my decision now is do I spend more money on fuel injectors (would need a full set as I need to upgrade anyway) at the tune of $400 or do I locate the part on the supercharger which I am sure is going to be expensive, or just gamble and send the supercharger in to be rebuilt since I installed it at 140,000 miles on the truck and the supercharger was used when I bought it. I am not sure how many miles are on it, but I have heard that you should rebuild them at 100,000 miles on them anyway, and my truck now is sitting at just under 200,000 miles.

I have already spent over $400 on this issue, so I am leaning toward putting in new injectors AND rebuilding the supercharger, but that is a lot of money. so I am having a hard time deciding on what to do

[brinner]

*cough* *cough*302 swap *cough* *cough*

[Bear]

yea, but I have put so much time and money into this fix already. and if I do a V8 swap I would probably kill myself in the truck being so high off the ground.

Right now the supercharged V6 is just perfect when she be running!

[04trdtaco]

so you are saying the "check valve" is bad on the supercharger? i dont think that would be to much money. im thinking 10 bucks. if you rebuild your supercharger then you would be getting new bearings,seals, and oiling it up. and you can get those for like 35 bucks i think. from the manufacture. but that check valve, i think it controls putting boost where it should not go and keeps it flowing where it should. but if all of this doesnt work, then i would start with pulling the valve covers off and taking the fuel rail off and etc... and just looking for internal damage.

[Bear]

there is a check valve, but it is actually a little white plastic part, which resides under the throttle body. It is in the single side of a "Y" vacuum that splits vacuum from the heads back to the throttle body. But that is not the part I am talking about.

the "valve" I am talking about is on the back of the supercharger itself. It is a somewhat good size zinc colored cylinder that has what looks like a rod coming out of the back side. the hose that feeds the boost gauge comes off of it via a tee fitting. I want to call it a boost valve, but I am not totally sure that is the proper name.

I needed to look the part up today in some of my supercharger manuals, but haven't had a chance as I am actually working today.

As for having the supercharger rebuilt. I would need to send it to Magnuessen for a complete rebuild, as you said new bearings, new seals, oil the whole works, and that does cost about $400 last I checked.

[04trdtaco]

oh well hmm when i almost bought a used one i thought it was like 40 bucks for just the parts and i was gonna do it myself. i guess im wrong, well im running out of ideas here.

[NwiTACO]

I still don't think supercharger. My vote would be the injectors. How long did the truck sit for? Was there any stabilizer in the gas? Maybe gunked inectors?

[brinner]

Originally Posted by NwiTACO

I still don't think supercharger. My vote would be the injectors. How long did the truck sit for? Was there any stabilizer in the gas? Maybe gunked inectors?

IMO for someone to confirm a bad injector(s) they would have to have ridden in a car that developed bad injectors. (without pulling them that is) is there anything cheaper that you can replace?

[muddertrucker99]

Rebuilding the S/c is not gonna help ya. I would like to think that the gas has gotten stale over the past months. I would belive its a fuel problem also. Just becuase the way it's acting. it runs good till you need the extra fuel. Then motor is starving for fuel it falls flat on it face. So i say you have a fuel issue but the is

[Hagan34]

Is it possible that the fuel filter in on backwards? Sounds odd i know but i know some out there are directional, not sure yours is one of them. might be worth a check if you havent already checked.

[Bear]

Originally Posted by brinner

IMO for someone to confirm a bad injector(s) they would have to have ridden in a car that developed bad injectors. (without pulling them that is) is there anything cheaper that you can replace?

I have already replaced everything cheap. I could try a different fuel pump, but when we bench tested the current one, it had plenty of "flow" My overalls are still sitting in the garage waiting to be washed due to Pam not wanting the gasoline smell that is in them getting into the laundry room.

Only other thought in my mind is that I did not re-insert the vacuum lines. "someone else" did. So I want to find my old line schematic and double check them. But I don't really think that is going to be the problem but worth a shot.

Originally Posted by muddertrucker99

Rebuilding the S/c is not gonna help ya. I would like to think that the gas has gotten stale over the past months. I would belive its a fuel problem also. Just becuase the way it's acting. it runs good till you need the extra fuel. Then motor is starving for fuel it falls flat on it face. So i say you have a fuel issue but the is

I would have agreed about the fuel getting stale/varnished, but I don't store the truck with much gas in it to begin with. When I cracked open the fuel cell to test the pump, the tank was all but dry. I put completely new and fresh fuel in before we started messing with the fuel pump and filter.

Now the truck idles great and will even drive, just when I get into boost is when it balks.

Originally Posted by Hagan34

Is it possible that the fuel filter in on backwards? Sounds odd i know but i know some out there are directional, not sure yours is one of them. might be worth a check if you havent already checked.

I thought of that also. but I install the fuel filter one line at a time allowing the new filter to hang below the old which means no way of getting it backwards.

Plus with this new filter from Toyota, it came with a new bracket and you can only install that bracket in one direction.

[Bear]

I gave in and dropped the truck off at the dealership around the corner from my house. (andy mohr toyota is literally around the corner from my house in Avon)

Being the ever "diligent" person I am, I dropped it off last night so that they would have it first thing this morning.

so here at 11 am I already received a phone call from the service writer…"here let me let you talk to the tech that looked at your truck"

(this can't be good, I was thinking)

so "Brandon" gets on the phone and announces that after looking at my truck for 30 minutes…he has found both cam shafts bent, the timing belt spun 180º out and wanted to ask me how I found a tow truck tall enough to tow the truck to the dealership (I drove it there under it's own power)

so should I try and get them to buy it back under the frame rust "buy back program? Or should I look for a new motor (or use Brinner's idea of sticking my 302 in it?) After all cam shafts for the 5rz's are not cheap. and for a '97 is it practical to repair or replace?





















































Gottcha! as much as I hate to admit it "Y" seems to have nailed the diagnosis the very first day he looked at the truck some three months ago!

Brandon said that when the motor is "romped like when you go through Mud or rocks" the dynamic tension for the supercharger is allowing slack in the drive belt which is causing the supercharger to stop spinning thus causing the motor to flood out.

he seemed to think the belt was too long or the tensioner was not working properly, and by his own admission, he had never worked on a supercharged '97 tacoma before so he wasn't sure how the tensioner was actually suppose to work, but the problem was definitely the belt slack when under boost. The tensioner was moving too much. He suggested a shorter belt and eliminating the tensioner altogether.

So I guess we will try either sourcing a new dynamic tensioner or eliminating the current one as recommended (which is a cheap fix)

Keep your fingers crossed this is actually the problem…I know I am!

What I also found amusing was Brandon said that they could fix it but it was going to cost about $220 for their time or as he could tell I have done a lot of work to it already and figured I would want to take care of it myself.

Hmm what do you guys think? I am just trying to figure out if his comment about being able to tell I "do a lot of work on it" myself was an insult or not.

[Full_Tilt_Fud]

Originally Posted by Bear

I gave in and dropped the truck off at the dealership around the corner from my house. (andy mohr toyota is literally around the corner from my house in Avon)

Being the ever "diligent" person I am, I dropped it off last night so that they would have it first thing this morning.

so here at 11 am I already received a phone call from the service writer…"here let me let you talk to the tech that looked at your truck"

(this can't be good, I was thinking)

so "Brandon" gets on the phone and announces that after looking at my truck for 30 minutes…he has found both cam shafts bent, the timing belt spun 180º out and wanted to ask me how I found a tow truck tall enough to tow the truck to the dealership (I drove it there under it's own power)

so should I try and get them to buy it back under the frame rust "buy back program? Or should I look for a new motor (or use Brinner's idea of sticking my 302 in it?) After all cam shafts for the 5rz's are not cheap. and for a '97 is it practical to repair or replace?





















































Gottcha! as much as I hate to admit it "Y" seems to have nailed the diagnosis the very first day he looked at the truck some three months ago!

Brandon said that when the motor is "romped like when you go through Mud or rocks" the dynamic tension for the supercharger is allowing slack in the drive belt which is causing the supercharger to stop spinning thus causing the motor to flood out.

he seemed to think the belt was too long or the tensioner was not working properly, and by his own admission, he had never worked on a supercharged '97 tacoma before so he wasn't sure how the tensioner was actually suppose to work, but the problem was definitely the belt slack when under boost. The tensioner was moving too much. He suggested a shorter belt and eliminating the tensioner altogether.

So I guess we will try either sourcing a new dynamic tensioner or eliminating the current one as recommended (which is a cheap fix)

Keep your fingers crossed this is actually the problem…I know I am!

What I also found amusing was Brandon said that they could fix it but it was going to cost about $220 for their time or as he could tell I have done a lot of work to it already and figured I would want to take care of it myself.

Hmm what do you guys think? I am just trying to figure out if his comment about being able to tell I "do a lot of work on it" myself was an insult or not.

almost fooled me..........would have but you messed up since the 5vz has 4 cams not 2


your dealer sounds better than mine........last time I took the truck in they cost me a rear ring and pinion and f'd up my e-locker

[Bear]

GRANT was a bigger drunk than Lee was, but then again, Lee may have hidden it better since he was never a "president".

[Bear]

wow! did I ever fall into that trap of going off topic on a technical thread into a history lesson.

and who says off roaders are not ecumacated?

[95toyotan]

Damn! you had me for a minute!!!



















Put the tensioner back incorrectly like you had it and tighten it with the alternator. That would fix it temporarily to make sure it is the problem. Then it probably is just the lenght of the belt.













































One more time!

[Bear]

I really don't think it is the length of the belt as I always check the length of new belts against the length of old belts coming off. This one matched exactly.

I should have time to pick up the truck tomorrow as Pam will be off early and will be able to get to their service office before they close leaving just the pick up.

plan right now is to get a measurement around the pulleys covered by this belt after adjusting the alternator back where it belongs and then eliminating the dynamic pulley all together.

the dynamic tensioner is more of an accessory rather than a vital part of the supercharger system.

[95toyotan]

Originally Posted by Bear

I really don't think it is the length of the belt as I always check the length of new belts against the length of old belts coming off. This one matched exactly.

I forget, where/how did you get the length for the first belt?

[Bear]

went to the dealership and special ordered the belt for the supercharger. Brought it home and measured it against the one that came off as I described before. They matched.

I'll be picking up the truck tonight, then taking a string and wrap it around all the effected pulley after adjusting the alternator and then match that length to another belt. Hopefully that will solve the issue after eliminating that dynamic tensioner.

Are you off work this weekend?

[NwiTACO]

Let us know how it works out! I don't think string will work for a belt though...

[Bear]

I use industrial strength kite string…super tough

[95toyotan]

Originally Posted by Bear

Are you off work this weekend?

Highly unlikely!!! 12 hours a day for me right now!!
And probably 6 or 8 on saturday

[Bear]

Well round #2 with Toyota happens tomorrow. I just made a second appointment with Toyota because their recommended fix, did not work!

I removed the tensioner and replaced the drive belt with a newer, shorter belt and now it stalls out at 4.5 PRM's instead of 3.

I did remove the pulley on the supercharger and replaced it with my 9 pound boost pulley, because I could not get a belt the proper length after removing the tensioner. So in order to get a belt to fit, I had to swap pulleys which I am not happy about, but I got the belt on.

It should be a lot more fun to drive now if I can ever get it running.

[Fuod]

This may have already been mentioned, but have you tried disabling the supercharger to see how the truck runs without it? If it still runs like crap then that's one more thing you know isn't the problem.

I had a buddy with a '99 mustang and a 9lb charger, and he always took the belt off in the winter for safety reasons. Good thing too because that beast was squirly enough on dry pavement!