AzRocks 2009 BLM train wreck Re-Direct

[Mark in Az]

http://azttora.com/azrocks09/index.html

AzRocks 2009 at Table Mesa
March 27th & 28th 2009

[tufftoy]

looks like we are going to have company on saturday. BLM will be out ther working on the azco mine area. tread lightly everyone

got this yesterday from Tom at the BLM office. I need to know who can help out on the 28th. Sorry it took so long.
Jim F.

Jim,

The reclamation work at the AZCO mine is done. We can begin planning for the fence. I'm going to lay out the fenceline next Monday. I'm thinking we can get started around the Saturday March 28. First is the drilling of holes ( I think about 150-250 holes (about 100/day can be drilled). I have to line up the mine drill. It takes 3-4 people to keep it running and
pounding the posts. I have two BLM guys who will boss the job and bring
some equipment(one on Sat, one of Sun). I will likely need one person who lives near the BLM office to pick up a trailer and follow our guy out to the site. If someone wants to campout with the equipment so we don't have to drag it back each day, that would help. I am guessing that only Saturday and Sunday will work as volunteer days. Let me know if someone volunteers for a Friday or Monday.

Welding can commence after the posts are installed. So, pipes installed on
a Saturday can have rails welded on Sunday. Logistics to the site are a
challenge.

If you think we can get 4-5 people on March 28, I'll get things set up. I go on family leave (new baby) next Thursday probably. If the baby is late, then I'll delay until then.

Thomas V. Bickauskas
USFS Recreation Solutions Enterprise Unit Transportation and Access Planning Coordinator at BLM Phoenix District Office (via interagency agreement) Mailing Address:
BLM Phoenix District Office
21605 N. 7th Ave.
Phoenix, AZ 85027
(ph)623-580-5502
(fax)623-580-5580
Schedule - Tues / Weds / Fri / Sat

[Spinnas]

I love how everyone wants to help with shit like this(the BLM project). This is much too like the "walkpath" at LW in FJ, the 4wd people did all their slave labor only to be backstabbed by them trying to close the trail. I knew this and was why I refused to help. All this after they said "it will look good if you guys come and help They never said it will keep the trail open, yet some people implied in their own mind that it will, thinking these people won't screw them. They want everyone to do all their work for them and some people are way to eager to get walked all over.

[tufftoy]

i must admit that the LW situation would make anyone gun shy bout helping. ive met tom and he seems open to keeping as many trails open as he can. but i was just posting so everyone knew that BLM was going to be out and about.

[howyadoin]

My feelings are that the BLM already has their own agenda. The fact that they don't have the funding to do all their own projects makes them play nice with user groups, whether they want to or not. Notice the shooters at TM have just as much right to the area as we do...when's the last time you saw that group doing a clean-up? How many of you are aware that "recreating" on any motorized vehicle is illegal in Maricopa county EVERYWHERE that is not posted open? Here's an eye opener, there are only two areas in Maricopa county that are posted as open...mile marker 11.5 and "The Rolls" by Sycamore. Other than that, everywhere else is illegal including all of WT, Twisted, RD, Die Hard,etc....basically everything until you cross the river into Yavapai county at TM. I'm not sure about FJ (don't know county lines in that area), but rest assured if it's in Maricopa County it is closed.
I just found out about this 2 weeks ago and have been trying to find as much info. as possible. Had a one hour conversation with a group of Sheriff's at WT...they were nice about it and quite frankly didn't seem like they were too thrilled about the whole situation, but they did have a stack of pamphlets showing the new laws and restrictions. They said that there were a couple more areas that were slated to be posted open, but there was not funding for signage! The OHV sticker fund was supposed to go toward this signage, but apparently those funds have found their way into the DMV general fund (there's a surprise). Not trying to be a doomsdayer, but the reality is that we're well on our way to becoming another Commifornia.

[rockbronco]

so what about trailering in rigs to these areas? your on a road that is open and in a registered vehicle but just passing through. how do they classify that? hell my rig is registered anyway. I cant imagine they concider all of TM closed since you have to pass through a little big of maracopa county to get to anything else. plus being on blm land you think it would offset that

I think its bs to restrict dust on an area like TM far away from people. the WT on the other hand I could see

[Mark in Az]

http://www.maricopa.gov/AQ/divisions.../docs/P-28.pdf

[AZrockbum]

Originally Posted by rockbronco

so what about trailering in rigs to these areas? your on a road that is open and in a registered vehicle but just passing through. how do they classify that? hell my rig is registered anyway. I cant imagine they concider all of TM closed since you have to pass through a little big of maracopa county to get to anything else. plus being on blm land you think it would offset that

I think its bs to restrict dust on an area like TM far away from people. the WT on the other hand I could see

FJ is Pinal county so its exempt. I would imagine if its on BLM land its exempt.

[Heatstroke]

First and foremost , we are wheeling in areas that are currently allowing OHV use on trails/roads that ARE authorized for such activity. Read the thing that Mark posted people. Better yet, try and comprehend what is written. Areas that aren't incorporated (meaning they don't fall under a specific city jurisdiction) or aren't ruled by a State or Federal body are then subject to county rules. If the county deems an unincorporated area closed, then that is their right as they have jurisdiction over it. Unincorporated closures are mostly due to ass hats hurting themselves and suing the county for $$$$'s or as a preventative measure to stop dumping or abuse to an area.

I don't know which jurisdiction the White Tanks falls under.

FJ is mainly State Trust Lands with some BLM, National Forest, and private ownership.
TM is mainly BLM with some National Forest, private ownership, and some State trust Land.

This is why most OHV land use meetings are held by the BLM & State trust Land Departments and sometimes the National Forestry Department comes to them.

[FAUX X 4]

Originally Posted by Heatstroke

First and foremost , we are wheeling in areas that are currently allowing OHV use on trails/roads that ARE authorized for such activity. Read the thing that Mark posted people. Better yet, try and comprehend what is written. Areas that aren't incorporated (meaning they don't fall under a specific city jurisdiction) or aren't ruled by a State or Federal body are then subject to county rules. If the county deems an unincorporated area closed, then that is their right as they have jurisdiction over it. Unincorporated closures are mostly due to ass hats hurting themselves and suing the county for $$$$'s or as a preventative measure to stop dumping or abuse to an area.

I don't know which jurisdiction the White Tanks falls under.

FJ is mainly State Trust Lands with some BLM, National Forest, and private ownership.
TM is mainly BLM with some National Forest, private ownership, and some State trust Land.

This is why most OHV land use meetings are held by the BLM & State trust Land Departments and sometimes the National Forestry Department comes to them.

All's I wanna know is if'n I can dump ma trash next to the road -n- shoot ma AK at it???

[Heatstroke]

Ok, after a minimal amount of looking it appears that the Whit Tanks fall under the ruling body of Maricopa County as part of their Parks and Recreation Department.

With that, I see NOTHING in regards to them NOT allowing OHV use in the areas that are used by OHV's in the White Tanks. Any kind of harrassment by "authority" figures is just that, harrassment. If they do stop you, be polite and ask them for specific laws or ordinances relating to why they are telling you that you can't wheel out there and then proceed as you see fit.

[howyadoin]

Originally Posted by Heatstroke

Ok, after a minimal amount of looking it appears that the Whit Tanks fall under the ruling body of Maricopa County as part of their Parks and Recreation Department.

With that, I see NOTHING in regards to them NOT allowing OHV use in the areas that are used by OHV's in the White Tanks. Any kind of harrassment by "authority" figures is just that, harrassment. If they do stop you, be polite and ask them for specific laws or ordinances relating to why they are telling you that you can't wheel out there and then proceed as you see fit.

I'll give you a copy of the flier...based on the "dust ordinance" argument. Basically the EPA has considered Maricopa County as a high population area and we fall under their jurisdiction Not trying to argue this point, but Maricopa County Sheriffs are saying you can be "criminally prosecuted". I don't think we will have ANY issues this year but I think we will have a helluva time getting it done in the future. Basically, all you fawks with full body rigs will be hanging at the malls in the near future IMHO. Be prepared to either drive alot further, or trailer your junk to "the good stuff" soon.

[Joe Dirt]

the good stuff being what? the hammers or having to trailer my junk down the road past the river. i'm confused on the whole matter here, is it illegal to be wheeling TM and the WTanks right now but no big deal when I go out as an Individual versus when AZ TTORA go out as a group and collectively trespass or make dust or whatever the fawk we're doing wrong.

learn me more please

[Heatstroke]

See post #9 .

[Joe Dirt]

aight that works for me