Synthetic Winchline

[terryj5]

Originally Posted by hytenor

cheater... Pitt would not be pleased.

I know, he would be jealous! I was off in Pellucidar at the time.

[Scootn2nature]

Originally Posted by hytenor

cheater... Pitt would not be pleased.

As in Dirk "Pitt"?............one of my heros

[hytenor]

Originally Posted by Scootn2nature

As in Dirk "Pitt"?............one of my heros

hey, Scott...welcome to 3 days ago

[hytenor]

Originally Posted by terryj5

I know, he would be jealous! I was off in Pellucidar at the time.

yea, but what were you driving? can you beat his AC?

[terryj5]

Originally Posted by hytenor

yea, but what were you driving? can you beat his AC?

The "Mole".

[hytenor]

Originally Posted by terryj5

The "Mole".

I'd rather have the Cobra

[terryj5]

Back on topic.
SAY BRETT
The pics on your (Dominions) site show splices that have what resembles one and a half figure 8's preceeding the "bury" part of the splice. A "brummel"? I have studied up on splicing at the Sampson site and it looks like you have added a little extra touch to the standard class 2 eye splice. Is there any real benifit to this? Looks as if it might work with the lock stitching to keep the line snug around the thimble.
Thanks

Originally Posted by hytenor

I'd rather have the Cobra

I know what you mean. I was always a Chevy man back in the formative years but my dream car was always the Cobra and still is. 8K$ was just to much back then. Almost bought a "poor mans Cobra" a Sunbeam Tiger once and just passed on a repro Cobra last summer. It sure was a blast to drive but having to say "No, it's a repro." all the time ended that.

[Dominion]

Wow, good eye you got there.

Yes, that's a Brummel splice. I've changed my splice method to a bury splice. The Brummel splice is nice because it locks the splice closed. It's not as strong though and given the splice is the week link, I've chosen to change to a standard bury splice. There is also a standard lock stitch under the heat shrink.

Trivia seems to be popular here so, Why don't other winch rope manufacturer's use heat shrink tubing to protect the lock stitch whipping twine? (and some used to).

Originally Posted by terryj5

Back on topic.
SAY BRETT
The pics on your (Dominions) site show splices that have what resembles one and a half figure 8's preceeding the "bury" part of the splice. A "brummel"? I have studied up on splicing at the Sampson site and it looks like you have added a little extra touch to the standard class 2 eye splice. Is there any real benifit to this? Looks as if it might work with the lock stitching to keep the line snug around the thimble.
Thanks



I know what you mean. I was always a Chevy man back in the formative years but my dream car was always the Cobra and still is. 8K$ was just to much back then. Almost bought a "poor mans Cobra" a Sunbeam Tiger once and just passed on a repro Cobra last summer. It sure was a blast to drive but having to say "No, it's a repro." all the time ended that.

[terryj5]

Originally Posted by Dominion

Wow, good eye you got there.

Yes, that's a Brummel splice. I've changed my splice method to a bury splice. The Brummel splice is nice because it locks the splice closed. It's not as strong though and given the splice is the week link, I've chosen to change to a standard bury splice. There is also a standard lock stitch under the heat shrink.

Trivia seems to be popular here so, Why don't other winch rope manufacturer's use heat shrink tubing to protect the lock stitch whipping twine? (and some used to).

Because they use Dyneema with a low heat tolerance?

[Jones]

^beat me to it! I was busy cooking bacon though...

[Dominion]

Originally Posted by terryj5

Because they use Dyneema with a low heat tolerance?

Originally Posted by Jones

^beat me to it! I was busy cooking bacon though...

Very nice. Critical temp on Dyneema is 150 degrees. Heat shrink tubing shrinks at 190 - ouch.

Can we call this on a tie, because he was cooking bacon.

[Jones]

Originally Posted by Dominion

because he was cooking bacon.

I have priorities..

[terryj5]

Brett, one more ?

Would you be so good as to PM me if/when you come up with a workable chafe guard and would you mind posting up what you are looking for in a guard?
I have been kicking around the industrial supply houses here and have seen some braided nylon hose with various types of liners. Similar to fire hose but down in the 1"-1.5" O.D. range and pretty supple. Also saw a garden hose that was braided nylon and seemingly ironed flat so as to be compactly stored on a reel. You have probably seen them in the sailing biz. It had some kind of liner (I suspect vinyl) but it was not stated and I have no idea yet as to what would "rub" nicely against the Technora.

Thanks
Watching for UPS

[Dominion]

The chafe guard that I am working on is made of Nylon webbing and is removable. It's a great material, but I need to get some more field testing done on the design.

I've worked on a couple of firehose type designs. One of the large hose manufacturer's makes an unlined 1.5" hose. The issue with hose is that when spooled in under load, it binds. The binding can make it very difficult to de-spool. It can get so bad, that you can't pull it out by hand. That's why manufacturers have steered away from it.

So yes, I'll be happy to post up as soon as I have a good solution designed and tested.

Originally Posted by terryj5

Brett, one more ?

Would you be so good as to PM me if/when you come up with a workable chafe guard and would you mind posting up what you are looking for in a guard?
I have been kicking around the industrial supply houses here and have seen some braided nylon hose with various types of liners. Similar to fire hose but down in the 1"-1.5" O.D. range and pretty supple. Also saw a garden hose that was braided nylon and seemingly ironed flat so as to be compactly stored on a reel. You have probably seen them in the sailing biz. It had some kind of liner (I suspect vinyl) but it was not stated and I have no idea yet as to what would "rub" nicely against the Technora.

Thanks
Watching for UPS

[NorcalPR]

Originally Posted by Dominion

The chafe guard that I am working on is made of Nylon webbing and is removable. It's a great material, but I need to get some more field testing done on the design.

I've worked on a couple of firehose type designs. One of the large hose manufacturer's makes an unlined 1.5" hose. The issue with hose is that when spooled in under load, it binds. The binding can make it very difficult to de-spool. It can get so bad, that you can't pull it out by hand. That's why manufacturers have steered away from it.

So yes, I'll be happy to post up as soon as I have a good solution designed and tested.

There is also 1" unlined hose, and IIRC, .75" unlines hose

[NorcalPR]

Originally Posted by terryj5

Brett, one more ?

Would you be so good as to PM me if/when you come up with a workable chafe guard and would you mind posting up what you are looking for in a guard?
I have been kicking around the industrial supply houses here and have seen some braided nylon hose with various types of liners. Similar to fire hose but down in the 1"-1.5" O.D. range and pretty supple. Also saw a garden hose that was braided nylon and seemingly ironed flat so as to be compactly stored on a reel. You have probably seen them in the sailing biz. It had some kind of liner (I suspect vinyl) but it was not stated and I have no idea yet as to what would "rub" nicely against the Technora.

Thanks
Watching for UPS

Terry,

I think you posted in another thread about what is the biggest pin you can fit in the crush proof thimble.

I've been talking with Brett, he gave me this link:

http://www.jeepswag.com/winchline/wi...shproofthimble

Just ordered 75'

-P

[terryj5]

Originally Posted by NorcalPR

Terry,

I think you posted in another thread about what is the biggest pin you can fit in the crush proof thimble.

I've been talking with Brett, he gave me this link:

http://www.jeepswag.com/winchline/wi...shproofthimble

Just ordered 75'

-P

Phill,

Thanks for the reply. He sent me that link also. However, my 75' has arrived and NONE of my 3/4" shackle bodies (WLL 6.5T) will fit thru but ALL the pins WILL. Although the hole is not round it measures 7/8" so it is very close. Heck, the variance in the thickness of the powder coat could determine a go or no go, it is that close. As far as the bodies fitting, I think it will come down to "some brands will and some brands won't". The bodies of my 5/8" shackles (WLL 4.5T) fit fine.

I like to run the pin thru the shackle, with spacers to keep things centered. This allows strap loops to lay in the big end of the shackle more comfortably so life is good for me.

I have been playing around with various methods of fastening to the drum and tried to fuse the "bitter end" with a lighter and it would not melt, cool! Have you thought about how you are going to fasten yours?

On the chafe guard, my concerns lie mainly when winching another vehicle where the line must rub (unavoidable) on something as it is pulled in. In a self recovery w/o a snatch block, just about anything, like a carpet scrap, could be used if the line must lay against a rock.

I am very pleased with the line and the service from Dominion. As a small business he tries harder.

[Dominion]

Hey Terry,

Thanks for the shackle details. Good to know and interesting that your shackles fit opposite of mine. I'll update my webpage details with this info.

I have a good method for attaching the winch rope to the drum. I just need to get off my a$$ get some pics and do the write-up. I'll try to get to it today.

Brett

Originally Posted by terryj5

Phill,

Thanks for the reply. He sent me that link also. However, my 75' has arrived and NONE of my 3/4" shackle bodies (WLL 6.5T) will fit thru but ALL the pins WILL. Although the hole is not round it measures 7/8" so it is very close. Heck, the variance in the thickness of the powder coat could determine a go or no go, it is that close. As far as the bodies fitting, I think it will come down to "some brands will and some brands won't". The bodies of my 5/8" shackles (WLL 4.5T) fit fine.

I like to run the pin thru the shackle, with spacers to keep things centered. This allows strap loops to lay in the big end of the shackle more comfortably so life is good for me.

I have been playing around with various methods of fastening to the drum and tried to fuse the "bitter end" with a lighter and it would not melt, cool! Have you thought about how you are going to fasten yours?

On the chafe guard, my concerns lie mainly when winching another vehicle where the line must rub (unavoidable) on something as it is pulled in. In a self recovery w/o a snatch block, just about anything, like a carpet scrap, could be used if the line must lay against a rock.

I am very pleased with the line and the service from Dominion. As a small business he tries harder.

[terryj5]

Originally Posted by Dominion

Hey Terry,

I have a good method for attaching the winch rope to the drum. I just need to get off my a$$ get some pics and do the write-up. I'll try to get to it today.

Brett

That's going to be a little late for me. But I would still like to see any solutions.
I have seen the PDF on winchline.com. I also noticed some lines sold with what looks to be about a 2g electrical cable lug "professionally glued and crimped". I liked the compact nature of this method but not the strength. I know that the wraps on the drum are what holds the load and any method that is stronger than the 3 threads of the 1/4x20 bolt on the side of the drum is pointless.
I took a 3/8" ID x 1-1/4" long seemless steel sleeve from Lowes and cut, ground, filed, drilled and hammered it into a replica of a copper electrical lug.
I passed the line thru the tube part and saturated the last 1/2" with JB Weld.
The line was then pulled back leaving about 1/8" proud of the tube (on the bolt hole side).
Now an appropriate sized counter sunk wood screw was screwed into the center of the gluey mess untill tight. Thus any load on the line will actually try to pull the screw head thru the tube and the wedge effect will actually tighten the connection untill the tube bursts.
Once the JB was wiped away and a cosmetic piece of shrink wrap put on, the whole thing looks "professional" and takes up minimum space while allowing for a smooth lay on the drum. I also made a back up for the trail parts box from a link of 1/8" welded steel chain with one end opened up to around 3/8" like some Warns use so I can do a traditional attachment in the field if need be.

Terry

[Dominion]

That should work!

Here's a link to my install doc: http://www.jeepswag.com/winchrope/wi...stallation.pdf

[NorcalPR]

What about something like:
http://www.okoffroad.com/stuff-winchrope-retainer.htm

I'll probably end up doing the terminal end like you anyways. It's not like the terminal end is taking any load at all...

[hytenor]

Originally Posted by NorcalPR

What about something like:
http://www.okoffroad.com/stuff-winchrope-retainer.htm

I'll probably end up doing the terminal end like you anyways. It's not like the terminal end is taking any load at all...

I like that one but can make one out of some 1" nylon strap on the sewing machine for less than $9

[terryj5]

I'm sure it's getting down to splitting hairs but I don't care for any of the termination methods that rely on the initial coils of line compressing on the tag end to do the job and I'll tell you why.
As subsequent layers of line are laid on top of the first, the compression effect could actually loosen the initial wraps when they are re-exposed with or without a pretty ribbon. Any loss of tension in the first 5-8 critical wraps could result in a really bad day. With the line anchored hard and fast the first wraps will re-tighten and slippage from loose wraps for whatever reason is a non issue.

[Dominion]

I agree that the outer layers will loosen the critical wraps. However there is a chinese finger cuff effect here. By the time that you are back down to the critical wraps, they are re-tightened by the higher number of critical wraps. The idea is to put the tag end of the rope under the critical wrap that has the most tension on it. With the tag end held tight it becomes self tightening.

This is a time tested method, that I've never heard of failing. If I ever heard of a failure, I'll change my opinion and go back to the drawing board.

BTW, I agree your method is better. I just never seen it required.

Originally Posted by terryj5

I'm sure it's getting down to splitting hairs but I don't care for any of the termination methods that rely on the initial coils of line compressing on the tag end to do the job and I'll tell you why.
As subsequent layers of line are laid on top of the first, the compression effect could actually loosen the initial wraps when they are re-exposed. Any loss of tension in the first 5-8 critical wraps could result in a really bad day. With the line anchored hard and fast this is a non issue.

[terryj5]

Originally Posted by Dominion

This is a time tested method, that I've never heard of failing. If I ever heard of a failure, I'll change my opinion and go back to the drawing board.

No prob man, it's just not an issue.

I won't get to try the line in the field till March but just handling it while spooling on and off twice for a good wrap makes me feel stupid for sticking to steel for so long. The weight tied up in steel between the wire and roller fairlead is really an understated benefit. I swear when I walk past my rig in the shop, it's smiling at me.

[Dominion]

Originally Posted by terryj5

No prob man, it's just not an issue.

I won't get to try the line in the field till March but just handling it while spooling on and off twice for a good wrap makes me feel stupid for sticking to steel for so long. The weight tied up in steel between the wire and roller fairlead is really an understated benefit. I swear when I walk past my rig in the shop, it's smiling at me.

I hear ya brutha. I had to despool 95' of brand new steel from the winch to get the pics for the instructions. Steel is a PITA.

[hytenor]

Originally Posted by terryj5

No prob man, it's just not an issue.

I won't get to try the line in the field till March but just handling it while spooling on and off twice for a good wrap makes me feel stupid for sticking to steel for so long. The weight tied up in steel between the wire and roller fairlead is really an understated benefit. I swear when I walk past my rig in the shop, it's smiling at me.

55# vs 4# on mine cable/roller vs rope/fairlead

[NorcalPR]

Just got my synthetic line. My 3/4 shackle does not fit either.

[Dominion]

Originally Posted by NorcalPR

Just got my synthetic line. My 3/4 shackle does not fit either.

Both pin and shackle body?

[NorcalPR]

Originally Posted by Dominion

Both pin and shackle body?

The pins threads only fit in the pin. With some filing on the rough areas on the pin, I was able to barely squeeze it in there.

But to connect it to the bumper, I may have to purchase a pin with a smaller capacity just to hook it onto the bumper, or use something like a large zip tie...