Earlier toyota SFA's

[Mez]

Ive been doing tons of reading on swapping out IFS to a solid front axle but can't seem to find much information about swapping to an earlier solid front toyota axle (85 and younger pickups, etc).

It sure seems like it would be easier to swap to a toyota axle rather than a waggoner, but Im probably wrong.

One thing I found was that the pumpkin (on older yotas) is on the opposite side as the stock driveshaft on our trucks, causing a problem.

There's an early 80's yota pickup sitting in a 'hidden' junkyard that I just saw last week with a nice solid front axle.... Looks tempting.

If you guys have any information that would help me Id appreciate it. Any links so I can find out more about swapping to a toyota axle, etc. Just tell me if it's too much of a hassle, or that that Ive landed on a goldmine finding this axle

Thanks

[PappaF2]

this has been discussed several times before but we can build the database on the new forum. You hit the nail on the head with your first observation that the differential is on the passenger side on a toyota axle where as tacomas are driverside output on the transfer case. This can be solved by either using some goodies from www.marlincrawler.com to switch over to an older toyota transfer case which is passsenger side drop. The other way to make it work is to "flip it" to make it driver drop, this is more work than just flipping the axle over as you need to swap the knuckles around and whatnot. You can also get the toyota axle cut down and retubedso it will be driver side drop.
The next problem you will notice is that the toyota front axle is only about 55.5" wide wms-wms as compared to your rear taco axle which is about 60" wms-wms. So you will need to use some good sized spacers up front if you stay with a stock front toyota axle width which isn't great for steering on your truck.
If you want to stay with toyota stuff I say check out the custom axle housings produced by brian and www.frontrangeoffroadfab.com. They are heavy duty axle housings that accept toyota parts that he can make to any width, and it comes with chromoly axles. Then you could grab that front axle you saw at the junkyard and use all the parts off it to put onto the front range housing. Then you could sell off the stripped stock toyota housing for some cash.
Basically toyota axles and dana 44's can be built to the same strength levels, the toyota will give you better clearance under the diff. but the dana 44 will give you a bit more steering angle. so it just depends on what you like more becasue it all comes out in the wash.

[jtaco1]

Another toyota axle that coule be used would be the front axle out of an FJ80 landcruiser. They are wider, high pinion, and can have an e-locker in them. I can't remember if they are drivers or passengers side drop, but I think they are passenger. Use some stuff from Marlin to flip sides with the transfer case, like said earlier, and you would be all Toyota.

[gambrinus]

If you want to stay all toyota then I would say go with a custom width toyota housing from Front Range Off-Road (http://www.frontrangeoffroadfab.com/). And thats not just because i have one As todd already mentioned the two problems with the stock toyota axle are its width (55.5") and the fact that its a passenger side drop. Sure, you can buy and adapter from Marlin Crawler so that you can use a pre-tacoma xfer case which gives you the passenger side drop and all but in the end you still have the width issue and stock strength axle shafts. The money spent doing so I think would be better used on a custom housing which gives you the drivers side drop and the correct width... AND chromoly inner axle shafts. Send the stock birfields (that you got from the stock toyota axle) off to Bobby Long (http://www.longfieldsuperaxles.com) and let him work his magic and you will have a very strong setup. Yeah, you will spend a little more upfront but it will be stonger than a stock d44. To upgrade the D44 with chromo axles and heavy duty ujoints, in the end its about a wash as far as $$$.

Originally Posted by PappaF2

...but the dana 44 will give you a bit more steering angle...

True, to a point Depending on tire size, once the tires hit the springs neither one will turn any more than the other. And now with the new 4340 chromo birfields that bobbly long is making there is no turning limit on the birfield joint.

later!
shane

[Dick Foster]

On thing to be aware of when using Toyota axles is the closed knucle and infamos Birfield joints instead of stardard U joints. Sure there are the new Longfields out there but they are many more U joint options for the D44. Replacing a busted axle out on the trail is usually more involved too. You can easly build a D44 to hold up to 35" or 37" tires with chromo axles, CTM U joints etc. In short, there are many more options (usually cheaper) avaliable for D44 as it was used by several OEMs over the rather limited list for the single OEM Toyota axle by comparison. Just something to consider.

[85runnerman]

I think the toy axle can be built a lot cheaper than a d44. 2 Ctms would run you 400~ and thats just a ujoint. A whole set of 30 spline longs will run you 635 to your door. Thats 2 birfields and both inners. Also the toyota hubs are some of the strongest that you can get and even more bombproof if you add extra studs from hendrix motorsports. Also you have the benefit of a removable 3rd member and able to use the same gear ratio's all around so if you were driving 50+ in 4wd there wouldnt be any driveline windup.

[gambrinus]

Originally Posted by 85runnerman

A whole set of 30 spline longs will run you 635 to your door. Thats 2 birfields and both inners.

For a stock width axle, yes, but for a custom width you need custom length inners which is another $40 per side - $715. Still, last time I checked (its been awhile) the price for a set of warn inners/outers and CTM ujoints was hovering ~$1k. Now I see that yukon is making d44 chromo shafts that are pretty inexpensive but I don't know how they compare in quality to the warns or superiors.

I had a waggy D44 and now I have the toyota axle. They each have thier own pros/cons. In the end, it really comes down to personal preference. However, the one big downside to the custom width toyota axle is just that. Its custom width so there are no junkyard inner axle shafts out there that you can carry for spares. BUT... with the new 30 spline longfield stuff I'll bet that %95 (or more) of the people on this board will never come close to breaking them, and I will include myself in that group. The 30 spline longfield axle shafts are supposed to be pretty close to the strength of stock 35 spline D60 axle shafts.

[85runnerman]

I hope on getting some of those bling longfields soon, ah if only i had more money

[PappaF2]

Originally Posted by gambrinus

True, to a point Depending on tire size, once the tires hit the springs neither one will turn any more than the other. And now with the new 4340 chromo birfields that bobbly long is making there is no turning limit on the birfield joint.

later!
shane

True if you are running a waggy axle with 31.5" spring perches. Thats why I chose to narrow a fullwidth hp 44 only on the longside which let me have the spring centers at 29.25", coupled with it's 64" of width no tire to spring contact for me.
But a very good points you made shane. If I had it to do over again I would think very hard about using a toy setup.
Speaking of which how are you liking your new setup?
-Todd

[gambrinus]

Originally Posted by PappaF2

...which let me have the spring centers at 29.25", coupled with it's 64" of width no tire to spring contact for me.

Oh, and that too Or if you do coilovers then its not an issue either.

Originally Posted by PappaF2

Speaking of which how are you liking your new setup?

So far, so good! I am really liking the selectable locker up front. Not specific to the toyota setup however. If I were to do the do over over again, I would have gone with a little wider axle. Probably 65". I don't hit my springs now (and probably never will) but the added stability would be nice. Then maybe in the future I would go with a custom FROR rear housing to match the width of the front.

You gonna make it out for AZRocks?

[Mez]

Thanks for the great info guys. I couldn't find much of any info searching on the old delphi board.

[PappaF2]

Originally Posted by gambrinus

Or if you do coilovers then its not an issue either.

Ya I think that is a good way to go, I am going to try seperate coils and shocks on my rig I think.

That would be badass to run matching front and rear front range housings at about that width.

I really would like to make it out to AZ rocks this year but I am not sure if I can, as my girlriends birthday is on the 7th of march and AZ rocks is March 3-6.

How are you liking your Iroks?

[Dick Foster]

There are more U joints out there than just CTM. The fact that there are more choices is the whole point.

[PappaF2]

Originally Posted by Dick Foster

There are more U joints out there than just CTM. The fact that there are more choices is the whole point.

there are more heavy duty birfields than just longfields, so back at ya.

[gambrinus]

NOTE: Neither of these lists represent any ordering based on strength

U-Joint choices:

1. No name stuff from local auto parts stores
2. Spicer
3. Longfield - treated Spicer
4. Jantz joints
5. OX
6. CTM - 300M

Birfield choices:

1. Stock toyota
2. Longfield - heat treated/cryo-d/ringed stock toyota
3. Bellfield - heat treated/cryo-d/ringed stock toyota
4. Smurfield - heat treated/cryo-d/ringed stock toyota (not sure if these are still available)
5. Longfield - heat treated aftermarket
6. Profield - heat treated aftermarket
7. Longfield 27/30 spline 4340 cromo, 300M inner race.

* You might think that all the stock treated/ringed birfields are the same but they are not. Yes they all start out with stock birfields but they all do thier own proprietary heating/cryo-ing so they are different in thier strengths. The same goes for the treated aftermarket ones.


If I have missed any, especially on the u-joint list, let me know and I will add them.

[PappaF2]

the other u joint are called jantz joints, they are sold either direct by jantz online or by randy's ring&pinion

[gambrinus]

Originally Posted by PappaF2

How are you liking your Iroks?

I've got ~17K miles on them and they are close to needing replaced. They wander all over the road and are a big contributer to death wobble... BUT I really like them I have beat the piss outta them and they still ask for more. I've got some cuts in my sidewalls that most radial tires would run home to mommy over. I would not reccomend them for a daily driver. This is the bias version however. I can't say how the radials would do. There are some new tires hitting the market over the next year that I would like to try. I'll need tires before then so I will get another set of iroks but not sure if I will stick with the bias or get the radials.

[gambrinus]

Originally Posted by PappaF2

the other u joint are called jantz joints, they are sold either direct by jantz online or by randy's ring&pinion

Thats what it was. I knew I remember reading about them but the name escaped me. Thanks!

[Dick Foster]

There is more D44 stuff and that is a fact so

[Brain]

Todd, I am with you. If I were to do it again, I'd do a FROR setup. I really like Toyota axles and how they are setup. Like my buddy said, the 30 spline Longs have a breaking strength of a 35 spline D60 axle, stuff those into a custom FROR housing (comes with custom chromo inners, might I add) coupled with the Hendrix stud kit, you basically have a D60 strength Toyota axle. BLING!

[PappaF2]

Originally Posted by generalee7

stuff those into a custom FROR housing (comes with custom chromo inners, might I add) BLING!

you might add... when you do add it let me know.

Another thing that dicks post about closed knuckles got me thinking about is the fact that the toy axle has the advantage of using trunion(sp?) bearings instead of d44 balljoints. This way when you happen to waste an axle/ujoint/birfield you won't take out the ball joints and the knuckle incapacitating your vehical.

One downside to the toy setup lies in the steering, as some people have problems sheering the studs that hold the highsteer arms to the knuckle. This can be remided in a few ways most commonly by always making sure those nuts are tight. More drastic solutions have to do with adding a 5th stud to the highsteer arm/knuckle: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...t=knuckle+stud
Another solution I have heard about is drilling out and retapping the knuckle stud holes for dana 44 sized studs: http://www.azrockcrawler.com/_images...4knuckles.html

[Brain]

I'd like to but because of funds, it is not a viable option at this moment LOL 10-4 on the hy-steer, I did see that post where whats-his-face put a 5th stud on. Really freakin' cool idea! The cool thing about the FROR shizzat is it can be any width you want. So I think I'd do a Tundra or T-100 rear axle with the housing up front *drool* People are starting to make chromo rear shafts for Toyota axles too!!!

[tacodab]

That sounds sweet!
hmmmmm
it might have to be the next thing to do when I upgrade the 88 toy

[tacodab]

well the dick I just orderd the cromo axles and ctm's so it is done

[tacodab]

Originally Posted by Dick Foster

There are more U joints out there than just CTM. The fact that there are more choices is the whole point.

and the plasma cutter showed up today.......what are you doing after christmas?

[PappaF2]

Originally Posted by tacodab

and the plasma cutter showed up today....

weeeeeeeee party at deans house we can cut shit up! Now you can really cut a rug.
so are you almost ready for your swap?

[gambrinus]

Originally Posted by PappaF2

This way when you happen to waste an axle/ujoint/birfield you won't take out the ball joints and the knuckle incapacitating your vehical.

And add to that, the possibility that when you waste that axle/ujoint it may deform the ears on the axle such that you can't get it out through the hole in the knuckle.

However, while both of those scenarios definately can happen I don't hear of it happening all that often. In fact I have yet to hear of anyone destroying a balljoint, and while I am sure it happens more frequently than the ball joint issue the only incident of tweaked axle ears not allowing the axle to be removed that I am aware of is, well, me I had a ujoint break and it tweaked the ears on the inner axle. Enough that it would not slide out of the knuckle, but not enough that with a little "persuasion" I was able to pound it out from the back..

Originally Posted by PappaF2

More drastic solutions have to do with adding a 5th stud to the highsteer arm/knuckle... Another solution I have heard about is drilling out and retapping the knuckle stud holes for dana 44 sized studs

I think that 5th knuckle stud is a hack. The more appropriate method is to replace the toyota studs with the larger d44 ones. Yes, breaking steering arm studs can happen but all the ones I have seen have been from guys runnin hydro assist and are running the nastiest trails az has to offer. However, once I go to hydro assist I will be upgrading to the d44 studs as well

-shane

[85runnerman]

well if you read the marlin build-up for theyre crawler, they're running a saginaw setup to aviod setting up hydro. The toy box is very restrictive, and the saginaw alows more flow. You can run hyrdo-assit without a 5th stud you just have to beef up your steering stops and set up the ram correctly and you will have no problems!