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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-07-2008, 09:17 PM Thread Starter
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Hello!

Hello fellow new and old Yota off-roaders!

OK if you have been to the new members area of TTORA's main site you probably already read this, but in case you haven't....

I guess I should start off by explaining my Yota experience.

I bought a '91 Toyota 4WD V6 Extra Cab Deluxe back in '95. I owned that truck for 12 years and put almost 200k miles on it. I never did get a chance to upgrade it to a lean mean rock crawling machine.

I sold my '91, (which felt like cutting off one of my arms ) only to buy an '03 Taco 4WD V6 Extra Cab SR5 w/ the TRD off-road package.

Now that I have my 4WD Yota back I want to start to trick it out!

Some of you may have already read some of this if you have been to colorado4x4.org.

Basically what I'm looking for is to try and keep it as versitile as possible. I still need to haul things in the bed. I haul a trailer every now and then too.

Right now I have no interest in going to a SAS, or running 35" tires. I want to keep my IFS and run with 33" tires.

My truck is my daily commuter, so any upgrades I do I want to do them right the first time and hopefully not shortening the life span on the parts.

So, I am here on this site doing research from those who have been there and done that.

The first thing I'll be doing it armoring up my Taco, then lifting it.

So I will be starting threads asking for suggestions on those topics and more.

Unfortunately, I'm not very mechanically incline due to lack of tools and a place to work on my truck. So I will also be asking where can I buy prefabricated stuff and a place to get them installed. I'm not against custom stuff, I'll just need help from someone who knows what they are doing.

Anyway, thanks in advance for your help and maybe I'll see you out on the trails, or in the shop!

Last edited by Yanman; 10-08-2008 at 05:26 AM. Reason: Added more info
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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-07-2008, 09:32 PM
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No Tacoma experience here, but welcome to Cottora. Great group of people here, many of which have tons of experience with Tacoma's. Once again, welcome and good luck with your build. Hope to see you out on the trail sometime.

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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-07-2008, 09:32 PM
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First off, welcome to cottora, this is a great place with great folks. To get an idea of the people we have around here, take a peak into this thread:
http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum...d.php?t=113148

Nice pickup on the new truck, and I know the feeling of losing an old vehicle that you've had for a long time. But progress is always good, and sometimes upgrades are called for.

Looking to upgrade a little? What kind of wheeling are you mainly interested in? Light trails? Heavier semi-hardcore wheeling? Mud? Snow?

If you plan to wheel a lot i would suggest sliders FIRST (like you said, armor). End of discussion there. Ultimately, it'll allow you to still open your doors if you make an "oops" and find a large rock smashed into your rocker panel.

As for lift, i would look into the OME 882's on Bilstein struts for the front, or look into SAW or Danahoe coilovers for the front. Whatever you choose, 2.5" is pretty much the max limit before CV angles become too much. However, few people have ran up to 3" without many problems, personally, 3" was too much for my taco, the front CV's would bind @ 40mph on nasty roads in the winter. For the rear, i would contact alcan and have them make you a custom leaf pack to suite your needs. I havent personally dealt with alcan, but i have heard their customer service, and help/expert advice, behind their company is next to non, and hands down one of the best out there. They're a bit pricey but well worth it if you need something thats going to play the "multi-duty" roll.

Stay away from the OME/Toytec 3" lift (as far as the rear goes) if you plan to haul a trailer, or any weight occasionally.

Again, welcome to the club, hope to see you out on the trails!
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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-07-2008, 09:33 PM
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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-08-2008, 07:42 AM
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Welcome, look forward to seeing your posts and watching you build your rig up. When looking for a place to install your stuff, check out the HOW's (house of wrenching), there's one every month or 3 and always have lot's of knowledgeable people on hand who have done what ever you need before (welding sliders, hooking up skids/bumpers/etc). You'll be amazed at how easy it really is.

I'll second 92RegCab's advise on the sliders, after that look at either a rear bumper or skids (I love my bud builts). He was spot on with the lift comments too. I've had fabtech's on mine and now have SAW's, like the SAW's MUCH MUCH better.

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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-08-2008, 12:44 PM
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Welcome. Glad you reposted here... since I don't get over to the main TTORA board often. We have many IFS on 33's running around and these guys wheel awesome. (Better than my SAS for sure!)

I'm up at the HOW North and we help peeps often... though since you are in Aurora, the HOW South might be easier

Again welcome I look forward to meeting you in person!




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How many people do you think it'd take to hold Molly down while we cut off a limb? I'm guessing alot, plus ratchet straps, c-clamps, and other misc tools
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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-08-2008, 03:52 PM Thread Starter
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Looking to upgrade a little? What kind of wheeling are you mainly interested in? Light trails? Heavier semi-hardcore wheeling? Mud? Snow?
92regcab,

I think as far as the type of wheeling I would like to do I would like my rig to be able to do a little bit of everything. At least as far as what IFS will let me do.

Right now my truck is real nice, no major body damage (I'd like to keep it that way for a while) only some clear coat scratches I got from wheeling through a bunch of bushes.

With that being said I want to stay away from trails that I would get dinged up.

Yeah I know, I'm a wimp.
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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-08-2008, 05:31 PM
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92regcab,

I think as far as the type of wheeling I would like to do I would like my rig to be able to do a little bit of everything. At least as far as what IFS will let me do.

Right now my truck is real nice, no major body damage (I'd like to keep it that way for a while) only some clear coat scratches I got from wheeling through a bunch of bushes.

With that being said I want to stay away from trails that I would get dinged up.

Yeah I know, I'm a wimp.
I've done some of the rougher trails co has to offer with minimal-no body damage (rougher lines on boulder carnage, holy cross, etc.). Its all about protection and how you drive, drive smart and be aware of whats around you and you'll come out without body damage.

IFS isnt as bad as everybody makes it out to be.

Take a looks at a few of these videos, pretty much everyone in them is IFS, including myself, and as you can see, it doesnt stop us hardly at all.

Carnage Canyon (boulder):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsRXU4bJdtE

Holy Cross:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcoZemO7F2w

Moab (poison spyder):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLi5PhztB9I

A few trucks in that last video are SAS, but even still you can see what ifs is capable of. You can do some pretty extreme trails without breaking anything, or damaging the body.
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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-08-2008, 05:45 PM Thread Starter
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To Bad they are closing down that part of Carnage.

I went up with some friends a month ago and did that trail. These guys all had SAS.

Didn't take my truck, I just rode shotgun.

Nice Video feeds! Looks like everyone is having fun, I had fun just watching!

I can hardly wait to get my rig fixed up and take back some souvenir dirt!

Last edited by Yanman; 10-09-2008 at 09:31 PM.
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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-08-2008, 07:50 PM
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It is unfortunate that portion of carnage is now closed, but it was for the best.

Anyways, start with armor for sure.

Hope to see you out on the trail with us!

Moab Nov 4th-10th for a few of us!
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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-08-2008, 09:09 PM
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welcome hope to see you on some trails or at a HOW (House Of Wrenching). i'm at the S. HOW here's some links to the next events here

http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum...d.php?t=112558
http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum...d.php?t=112559

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to do: front spacers for this summer, collect parts for SAS
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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-08-2008, 09:35 PM
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Yep, no matter the trail, shit happens. Armor minimizes that risk. I hate driving around a crushed up truck, so I advocate mods in the following order:
Armor (sliders, skids, bumpers, in that order)
Gears/lockers
Tires when yours wear out
Lift (by the time you get here you should know if you'll need a SAS or LT IFS, etc)

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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-09-2008, 09:00 AM
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HAHA.. I was wondering when TC would pipe up with "the list"... I'm surprised you don't have a form letter setup.

I kid, but it's a good list. Can't dispute that.

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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-09-2008, 03:58 PM
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welcome!
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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-09-2008, 09:35 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone for welcoming me!

I've got a good feeling about this .org!

Keep those suggestions coming! I'm eager to take notes!
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post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old 10-09-2008, 10:27 PM Thread Starter
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I'm up at the HOW North and we help peeps often... though since you are in Aurora, the HOW South might be easier
I'm pretty booked up until after Thanksgiving, so depending on when you were planning on having the HOW there might be a good chance I won't be able to make it.

Plus I don't have any mods to do to my rig...yet. But still it would be nice to introduce myself in person.

The latest mod I'm looking into is getting some 15x8" steel rims. I'm leaning toward the Pro Comp 87 Series. I'll have to look into getting some used 31x10.50r15 tires. This way I'll have my "hiking boots" for my truck. Right now I'm running with TRD 16x8" Ivan Stuart Alloys which I'll use to run around in town.

The next mod will be sliders. Those I'm leaning toward Slee. I like the way they look and I like that they are thicker material 3/16 instead of 1/8 like most.

Just got to save up my pennies.

Where up north? I live in Thornton, so unless you live in Greely or further North it won't be that bad.

If I could go, the South HOW is in Parker and I'll be driving through Denver to get there. Not a bad trek either, even though I hate driving on that part of I-25, as you all know 1 accident and your screwed.

Last edited by Yanman; 10-10-2008 at 04:58 AM.
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post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-14-2008, 10:40 AM Thread Starter
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Pics

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Just some pics of my Yotas I thought I would share.

Here is my old '91 Pickup that I sold in the Summer of '07.



And here is my '03 Taco that I got in Sept of '07, ain't it shinny!


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post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-14-2008, 03:52 PM
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Yep, no matter the trail, shit happens. Armor minimizes that risk. I hate driving around a crushed up truck, so I advocate mods in the following order:
Armor (sliders, skids, bumpers, in that order)
Gears/lockers
Tires when yours wear out
Lift (by the time you get here you should know if you'll need a SAS or LT IFS, etc)

Here's my beef with that, while I still believe that is a good list:

If by the time you get to lift, you decide that you want to SAS, you've already spent money and time on skids, gears, lockers, and tires that you're just going to throw out, or try and sell for a small portion of what you paid. For a beginner to Toyota wheeling it makes perfect sense for somebody that is going to be building slowly, and doesn't know exactly what they want out of a truck. Somebody that does know exactly what it will be used for might go something like this:


SAS/LT/IFS lift/body lift
armor
tires
gears, lockers


My reasoning is that when building, your tire size will be a good starting point of determining the balance between trail and road capability. To fit those, you're going to need some lift, and some beefier parts. If you decide to change the tire size later, you can still do so, without having to undo too many other expensive modifications. Then after you're happy with the suspension and tires, which are very important for overall happiness of a vehicle, you can slap some gears and lockers in there....hopefully before too much painful highway driving on those big tires... I put armor second because in cases of body lifts and SAS, your armor has to fit the vehicle after those modifications.

Just so we're clear Troy, I completely agree with your list in most cases. I just thought I would throw this out there, after having been in the Toyota scene for a bit, looking for my second truck, and knowing exactly what I want. I wish I did it the way I want to now the first time.

I appologize for the long winded, somewhat off-topic post. Welcome to TTORA, if I hadn't said so already.
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post #19 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-14-2008, 04:33 PM Thread Starter
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I appologize for the long winded, somewhat off-topic post. Welcome to TTORA, if I hadn't said so already.
Thanks Quick Draw, and no worries about welcoming me.

Also thanks for your opinion on how to mod a truck.
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post #20 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-14-2008, 08:26 PM
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If by the time you get to lift, you decide that you want to SAS, you've already spent money and time on skids, gears, lockers, and tires that you're just going to throw out, or try and sell for a small portion of what you paid. ... Somebody that does know exactly what it will be used for might go something like this:

SAS/LT/IFS lift/body lift
armor
tires
gears, lockers


My reasoning is that when building, your tire size will be a good starting point of determining the balance between trail and road capability. To fit those, you're going to need some lift, and some beefier parts. If you decide to change the tire size later, you can still do so, without having to undo too many other expensive modifications.
IMHO, you need to wheel A LOT before you decide if SAS, LT IFS, a mild IFS lift, or stock is right for you. If you believe all the web-wheelers and just run out and SAS because they say you need to if you're gonna 'wheel, you probably wasted money that you don't really need, and if you weren't locked already, you have spent >$3000, and not gained much, if any, offroad capability. I would think you, more than most, would be an ardent supporter of the offroad capability increase and increased control from gears/lockers.

I would also argue that if you had good 33's, and decided to SAS, you could run them until they were worn out and then replace them with 35's ... pretty much what Volcom did... almost all the armor will still work, and, really, locked IFS chunks and Budbuilt skids bring good money used.

I will agree that if you think you want a body lift, to make that decision early so you don't end up with a bunch of armor that won't fit right if you were to add one. Probably the only decision I regret with my truck.

In the end, I think the best way to modify a truck is wheel the crap out of it stock, figure out EXACTLY what you want to end up with, and make a plan to get there.


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post #21 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-14-2008, 10:45 PM
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IMHO, you need to wheel A LOT before you decide if SAS, LT IFS, a mild IFS lift, or stock is right for you. If you believe all the web-wheelers and just run out and SAS because they say you need to if you're gonna 'wheel, you probably wasted money that you don't really need, and if you weren't locked already, you have spent >$3000, and not gained much, if any, offroad capability. I would think you, more than most, would be an ardent supporter of the offroad capability increase and increased control from gears/lockers.

I would also argue that if you had good 33's, and decided to SAS, you could run them until they were worn out and then replace them with 35's ... pretty much what Volcom did... almost all the armor will still work, and, really, locked IFS chunks and Budbuilt skids bring good money used.

I will agree that if you think you want a body lift, to make that decision early so you don't end up with a bunch of armor that won't fit right if you were to add one. Probably the only decision I regret with my truck.

In the end, I think the best way to modify a truck is wheel the crap out of it stock, figure out EXACTLY what you want to end up with, and make a plan to get there.

I completely agree. Gears, lockers, and armor are the BIGGEST factors in what trails you get down. I often preach this to friends who think that I can do the things I can because of lift. Lots of people I know think they can just lift their Dodge Durango big and tall and hang with me, because that's all they can visually see done to it, but I tell them that they're wrong, and that with the right modfications a stock height vehicle could do anything I can. While I lack some in gears, I know that with the locker and rock sliders I could do a lot of stuff.

I also agree that there are far too many threads in the Newbie Section saying, "Bought my first truck, need help with SAS" That's ridiculous. But I think that you would agree that at some point you know what you want out of your truck, and that it would be nice to build what you want the first time.

Also, I've done some "different" things with my truck to say the least. This was mostly because I wanted to stay away from the IFS extended cab tacoma, with 3" lift, rear locker, on 33s, with tube rock sliders and bud builts. There's way too damn many of those trucks. I'm happy to say that I've never seen a truck like mine.

My last point is this: Who is SAS not for? With the exception of desert trucks, what can't a SAS truck do decently well? They don't have to be as extreme as everybody builds them, and if they are built right, they ride just fine down the highway. There just doesn't seem to be nearly as many limitations, and that right there is the appeal to them, IMO. I don't want to start an IFS vs. SAS debate, but really I completely understand why everybody goes that way. YES, IFS will get you through 99% of every trail in Colorado. A SAS truck will too, but with reliability, and less wheelstands...
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post #22 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-15-2008, 08:57 AM
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I also agree that there are far too many threads in the Newbie Section saying, "Bought my first truck, need help with SAS" That's ridiculous. But I think that you would agree that at some point you know what you want out of your truck, and that it would be nice to build what you want the first time.
Yep, and that's why I advocate the order I do. If you go armor, gears/lockers, tires when you need them, lift when you absolutely decide what you NEED, you haven't wasted any money that will just be cut off later. With what I have done to my rig, if I decided to SAS, the only thing I would be out is front gears/locker, the Budbuilt skid, and the Sonoran steel crossmember - all of which could be sold for almost what I paid for them.

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My last point is this: Who is SAS not for? With the exception of desert trucks, what can't a SAS truck do decently well? They don't have to be as extreme as everybody builds them, and if they are built right, they ride just fine down the highway. There just doesn't seem to be nearly as many limitations, and that right there is the appeal to them, IMO. I don't want to start an IFS vs. SAS debate, but really I completely understand why everybody goes that way. YES, IFS will get you through 99% of every trail in Colorado. A SAS truck will too, but with reliability, and less wheelstands...
A SAS is NOT for people who can't do the welding themselves. To get the advantages you tak about, more is involved than just buying a SAS kit and off you go IMHO. It is a SERIOUSLY expensive ($3,000 is bargain basement, and goes up from there, unlimited) modification, with not much upside over properly done IFS. The Return on Investment just isn't there IMHO.

As for the wheelstands statement - more flex, having tires on the ground instead of the air, does NOT result in a more stable truck. As a matter of fact, if the suspension is heavily droop-travel biased (as most SAS rigs are to keep the height under control), I would argue that it results in a LESS stable rig. Look at Molly's rig vs. mine. The COG gets outside the wheel track, and you're going over, no matter what kind of suspension you have!

Yes, if you want to do the absolute hardest trails out there, IFS won't cut it. But you know what - neither will having body panels/glass you care about keeping. Even built, it's not really a smart idea to count on driving home from those trails, so you need a tow rig. By the time you get to that point, you have a buggy that is no longer fun on the vast majority of trails. Ask cchark, ActionJackson, ... they have all gone that way and come back to "less built" rigs.

I know I sound like the anti-SAS crusader, but few people have been in my situation, being able to compare two otherwise pretty identical vehicles one SAS the other IFS.


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post #23 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-10-2010, 10:31 AM Thread Starter
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Smile I'm Back

Hello again guys!

So it been about a year since I last posted up due to vehicle difficulties and other life changing events.

My 88' still has the blown engine, but in a few weeks I'll have that fixed, so I should be back to hit the trails soon.

Anything new happened since I last posted?

I know 00RegCab has a sweet ride! Nice job!

How about QuickDraw's Doris?

And what about Molly's Tippy?
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post #24 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-10-2010, 11:00 AM
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tippy has a new 1st gen body but now lives in Texas. doris is currently getting a 3.4 swap. and 00regcab is just being a bitch not coming to moab cuz he cant figure out the locker in his new cruiser rear end a lot has gone down in the last year. instead of trying to get caught up just get out and wheel

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allow me to help with the mind-fuck ...
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post #25 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-10-2010, 11:29 AM Thread Starter
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instead of trying to get caught up just get out and wheel
Thats the plan.
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post #26 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-10-2010, 11:39 AM
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X2 on what Avsfreak1234 said, the best way to get caught up and stay caught up is to get out and wheel.




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post #27 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-10-2010, 02:04 PM
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Here's the updated tippy!




Molly
aka Lysmachia
85 4 Runner SAS (Tippy II) - All mashed together in 93runner and 85runner Goodness

Get your 4x4 VIDEO pr0n here
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Originally Posted by mrdoug View Post
How many people do you think it'd take to hold Molly down while we cut off a limb? I'm guessing alot, plus ratchet straps, c-clamps, and other misc tools
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post #28 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-10-2010, 03:10 PM Thread Starter
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Nice Runner Molly!

So your down in Texas? Our mountains not challenging enough for ya?
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post #29 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-10-2010, 04:52 PM
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Hey Yancey! I was just thinking about welding those frame plates for you the other day, and wondered what happened to you...

As Jay said, Doris is getting a 3.4L Auto Swap right now. I've got the engine all mounted up, and most of my parts gathered. Now its just about connecting everything up, and making a 1980 chassis play nice with a modern computer controlled drivetrain...


As you might notice from the picture, I've since moved and I have a bit more room for Toys and such now.


And since people keep asking...those tires are just set there out of the way...NOTHING is broken...
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post #30 of 31 (permalink) Old 11-10-2010, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yanman View Post
Nice Runner Molly!

So your down in Texas? Our mountains not challenging enough for ya?
More like lack of a job in Colorado for Troy. But it's all good. This is a good change for us and so far we are happy with it. It will make visiting c-rado all the more better!




Molly
aka Lysmachia
85 4 Runner SAS (Tippy II) - All mashed together in 93runner and 85runner Goodness

Get your 4x4 VIDEO pr0n here
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdoug View Post
How many people do you think it'd take to hold Molly down while we cut off a limb? I'm guessing alot, plus ratchet straps, c-clamps, and other misc tools
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