Lug vs Hub Centric - TTORA Forum
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 10:07 PM Thread Starter
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Lug vs Hub Centric

I know that toyota builds vehicles off of a lug centric design which should mean that only lug centric wheels can be mounted perfectly. A hub centric wheel mounted to a lug centric hub will not be properly aligned, if i understand correctly. This will lead to some vibration ect.

What im asking about is for those of you that have aftermarket wheels that are hub centeric, like every steel wheel ive seen, do you actually notice much vibration or any negative characteristics? or are they fine to drive with on the road?

Background that may help you inform me:
when I regear to 5.29s I want to run a 35/12.5 and know that size will rub on the UCA of my taco without either wheel spacers or new wheels with less backspacing. Problem is my wheels are pretty well beat to shit anyway so new wheels seem to be in order. Im on a budget and steelies seem like the way to go because of it.

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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 10:44 PM
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Dont know about with wheels, but I havent had any issue running lug centric spacers.

That said, I will likely be buying a set of hub centric spacers in the near future.




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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 10:47 PM Thread Starter
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why would you do that with a lug centric design in our trucks?

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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 10:51 PM
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Umm..... Our trucks are hub centric.




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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-23-2010, 12:30 AM
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once you get that big it really doesn't matter.... shit, once you hit 33's, it doesn't really matter anymore, you are going to have vibration spots no matter what depending on speed. you want something nice buy a car to commute at that point

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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-23-2010, 07:53 AM
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Like ike said. OE wheels are hub centric. The source of the mis-information is Gadget's website. He started saying that the wheels were lug centric and people believed it. Sadly the bad information is still there and people still believe it since he is obviously very credible when it comes to performance upgrades. He really knows very little about wheels.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-23-2010, 08:04 AM Thread Starter
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I was basing my information off of what 00regcab has repeatedly said on the CO board here. he must have gotten information from gadget or from other misinformed third parties. this changes things. thanks BadBrad

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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-23-2010, 08:48 AM Thread Starter
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after doing more research, off TTORA, it seems that everything going around on TTORA about wheels is wrong. In fact our trucks are hub centric like others said and most aftermarket wheels are lugcentric, which is what usually causes the vibration since stock wheels are designed to line up with the hubs, not on the lugs. the center hole on most aftermarket wheels is cut out too large to fit snugly and line up so that they fit a variety of vehicles. there are a few companies that make adapters/spacers to make the oversized hole match the hub diameter eliminating vibrations.

Then upon further research I cant make up my own mind as to whether our trucks are lug or hub centric since personal experience with removing wheels on my truck makes me think they are lug centric based upon how they align when installing wheels since the lugs do not line up with the holes in the wheel until at least two lug nuts have been threaded on. if they were in fact hub centric they should all be centered in the holes before lug nuts are put on.

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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-23-2010, 09:46 AM
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Here is how you know that they are hub centric. When you push the wheels tight against the hub, it centers every time. If they were lug centric when you push them tight against the hub, you have to move the wheel up, down and side to side to get the lugs started. With the OE wheels, you push them up tight against the hub and the lugs thread right in every time.

What confuses people and I assume Gadget as well is the use of shank type lug nuts. That is a design that you used to see in older mag wheels that were lug centric. Toyota uses that design because of the large center hole. If you used conical seat lug nuts you run the risk of cracking the wheel since there isn't a lot of metal between the lug hole and the center hole of the wheel. By using a shank/washer design, you can apply the force to the hub and not stress the wheel.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-23-2010, 10:02 AM Thread Starter
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Here is how you know that they are hub centric. When you push the wheels tight against the hub, it centers every time. If they were lug centric when you push them tight against the hub, you have to move the wheel up, down and side to side to get the lugs started. With the OE wheels, you push them up tight against the hub and the lugs thread right in every time.
That is what i mean, when I have pushed my wheel onto the hubs before they do not center the lugs. However, every piece of reliable information i have been able to find confirms that our trucks are indeed hub centric. i might just be dumb.

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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-23-2010, 10:30 AM
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you aint the only one Jay... that was my assumption/experience as well. I have always had to jimmy around the wheel to get the lug nuts started. Then again, it's been a while since I've dealt with stock wheels.

My AR Mojave rims have the conical lug nuts So maybe they are lug centric instead of the stock hub centric... but I haven't have any issues with them (cracking or vibes).

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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-23-2010, 03:34 PM
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allow me to help with the mind-fuck ...

your stock wheels are hub-centric.

your lugs are symmetric, allowing a lug-centric wheel to be mounted without issue. i haven't run hub-centric in years.

over the weekend, we put my old lug-centric adapters on ben's truck, and then mounted his hub-centric OEM 16" alloys to them. no vibes . the shanks on the stock hub-centric wheels effectively centered the wheel...fuckers finished out tight. <--note NOT TOO TIGHT. NORMAL. but i hadn't dealt with hub-centric & shanked nuts in a while, forgot what it was like.

hope your mind doesn't feel too shagged out now.

the one thing you should keep an eye on is stud length...the OEM studs may not have enough length to safely engage lug nuts on an aftermarket lug-centric wheel.

the truck is inherently lug centric and hub centric. if you change the wheel's center bore, for example chevy-style large bore to fit over a D60 hub, and you want the wheel to be hub-centric, you need a new centering ring and a wheel that accepts nuts with a flat, rather than tapered, shoulder. most aftermarket wheels are lug-centric, so you can dispense with the centering ring...or just leave it, as it'll be easier to mount the wheels on the truck.

fwiw, my old "new" wheels came with new centering cones to help mounting, but they are lug centric. they mount lug centric on the rear axle, but the hub does a good job of lining everything up. the warn hubs on the front do not, so there's a little monkey work getting the front wheels lined up, but they still mount lug centric, and they don't vibrate.

if the wheels vibrate, the wheel & tire & balancing weights are the potential issues.

so get what you want, just get the correct lug nuts for the wheels you want, and get the correct centering ring if one is required. on the whole, i think it's easier to run lug-centric and dispense with the centering ring. if i can have a 75#, 37x12.5R17 tire with double steel belts and a bunch of other garbage mounted on a roughly 30# 17x10 wheel and have it balance out on a hub-centric machine with a single ounce of weight (that's my 37" spare btw, sitting in the garage right now), and have the other 4 balanced up and mounted lug-centric on the truck, then run the whole mess up to the usual speed of traffic on I25 north and I70 west and have it run like it's on glass, then you really shouldn't be worrying about lug centric or hub centric beyond getting the correct hardware for the wheels you've chosen.

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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-10-2010, 07:37 PM
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If you want to see a genuine lug centric wheel design my Volvo has them!
One of the few vehicles to do so to the extent that there is no centering bore or hub extrusion... and why a warped rotor, bent rim or cupped tire is much more of a pain!

thanks for posting the good info Sean & bad brad

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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-11-2010, 01:08 PM
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I agree with sean.

I have HUB centric wheel spacers on my taco. The wheels are aftermarket steelies they have conical stud holes but fit the hub nice and tight. I'm deducing that they are either or. I still get vibrations any where above 65mph. (need to rebalance). Spend the money and get the spidertrax (either from slee or spidertrax themselves). That way you can't go wrong. They will fit the taco hub and either way will be lug and hub centric.

100 a pair but you can't go wrong. especially when saftey is involved.

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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-11-2010, 07:53 PM Thread Starter
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I ended up getting a set of new to me (used) wheels. they are lugcenteric so I'll see how they end up working. if there is an unmanageable vibe i have found some adapter rings on many websites that you put in the center hole of the wheel to make it line up hubcentric again.

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