Trailgear SAS kit? - TTORA Forum
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post #1 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-13-2007, 03:51 AM Thread Starter
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Trailgear SAS kit?

Is it worth it? Im debating right now. I found a normal straight axle from a 85 and a rear from a 90 and i can either pick up the front and throw it in my truck OR i can buy a zuk and a rusted to hell 85 and swap everything in it. I like my truck but wish i didnt have to cut everything off it. It was my first rig ever and rather fix her then cut her up and beat on her. Im just worried it will never drive right again.

If i get a zuk i can put the locker from my truck in it and throw gears at both and just tow my flatbed with the truck and the zuk on the rear.....Tough call and i was anti Zuk tel tonight when we ran carnage with BJ's new rig and that thing with a spring over,spacers,32's,rear locker,6.5:1 case did everything i did and a few lines i couldnt.

I hate this cause i cant make up my f'n mind!

Then my buddy who went with me was telling me he has the welder and knows of a newer FI but still SAF chevy for $500 and we could gut it with the v8 and swap it all........


heres where the trail gear kit comes in. If i sas my truck i will be grabbing a full kit to do the Toy axle if its chevy stuff obviously i will be in need of fabbing stuff but it will be wider. Going straight axle id like to go bigger in the tire department and its time for new tires so im thinking 37-38's and gears obviously.

What would you do out of the above mentioned options?

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post #2 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-13-2007, 09:13 AM
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id get the chevy, then swap it all to the yota, cant beet a small block yota. will you be swaping engine trans and t-case, I would if it is an auto, manual you will have problems w/clutch linkage. just my

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post #3 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-13-2007, 10:37 PM
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I have the trail gear (and some all pro) kit with an 85 axle and i have NO regrets. It was very easy to swap, and it drives better now than it ever did on ifs (as long as you dont mind a little body roll). It drives perfectly straight down the highway, and smooth as a caddy at 110+ MPH. ITS WORTH IT!
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post #4 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-14-2007, 12:01 AM
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i would keep it all yota. swap that 85 axle in, i like marlin's kit a tad better or maybe RUF but trail-gear is good shit too.

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post #5 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-14-2007, 02:20 PM
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I've got the TG front and rear kit. I bought the SAS kit even though I have an 84 (comes with wheel spacers and brake rotors for $100). I've been happy with the kit and it flexes great. I've ran tons of tough trails in it (BV Carnage, Pritchett, Libertry) and it handles it just fine. The springs are very soft so DD'ing it might wear the springs out faster. Mine sits in the garage most of the time
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post #6 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-14-2007, 08:28 PM
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Don't forget on bald tires

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post #7 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-14-2007, 08:32 PM
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TG kits work great. Get it. You cannot build it yourself for less than that.

Another vote for keeping it yota. I can't stand domestic shit being put into a perfectly good toyota. If you plan to hit mud, you can't beat the power of a domestic block, but seems you like to crawl, and all you need to crawl are gears. Little 4 banger + lots of gearing= sweet trail machine without broke parts.

Just a little aside, as I was writing this rant. I'm sure there are plenty on here who know MANY people who have done the chevota swap and been fine. Off the top of my head, I can think of 11 people that I know right now, mostly cruiser guys, who have chevy V8's. These are the ONLY people I know of personally who've done the swap. ZERO people in that group trouble-free operation. Most have severe overheating issues. Again, I'm sure there are plenty that work just fine.

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post #8 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-14-2007, 10:43 PM
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My 2 cents. Stay away from All Pro... I think marlin or TG makes better products. My All pro mechanichal components have mostly failed. Not the best steel was used by them at least in my SAS batch either...

All pro is ok for chill wheelers, but Russ, you like me are not a "chill" wheeler...




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How many people do you think it'd take to hold Molly down while we cut off a limb? I'm guessing alot, plus ratchet straps, c-clamps, and other misc tools
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post #9 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-15-2007, 02:58 AM Thread Starter
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molly whats the "chill" wheeler?

Sounds good guys looks like i will be getting this 85front and will wind up getting matching springs for my rear. may be months for the swap kit but F it next summer i will have a built clean SAS'd 87 .

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post #10 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-15-2007, 09:25 AM
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If you're going to stick with the Toyota front axle, buy the knuckle gussets and 30 spline Longfields. Don't try to wheel with stock birfields with larger tires. I would also recommend getting the dual ultimate crawler (dual t-cases with 4.7 gears in the rear case).

Like Son of Mayhem said, tires would be nice also
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post #11 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-15-2007, 12:27 PM
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The knuckle gussets are MANDATORY. You can wait on the Longs until you break your stock Birfs (which WILL happen). For somebody that 'wheels as much as you do, Russ, I certainly wouldn't put stock Birfs back in...

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post #12 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-15-2007, 04:31 PM Thread Starter
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how much and best place for longs? anything else i need?

87 Dlx Longbed mall crawler
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post #13 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-15-2007, 04:53 PM
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how much and best place for longs? anything else i need?
i ordered my longs from longfield with hub gears, but if you are going to be ordering from trail gear i would just order them from there.

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post #14 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-15-2007, 06:58 PM
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Direct from Longfield and through Front Range Off Road are the same price. $645

www.longfieldsuperaxles.com
www.frontrangeoffroadfab.com

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post #15 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-15-2007, 09:32 PM
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If you are gonna do the build... order the longs. It would SUCK to have to swap them out out on a trail...




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How many people do you think it'd take to hold Molly down while we cut off a limb? I'm guessing alot, plus ratchet straps, c-clamps, and other misc tools
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post #16 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-15-2007, 09:47 PM
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If you are gonna do the build... order the longs. It would SUCK to have to swap them out out on a trail...

aww come on its not THAT bad. besides you and troy are always working on his 4runner on trail anyways

....sorry i couldnt resist

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post #17 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-15-2007, 10:12 PM
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Shaddup.. It's cuz we wheel all the damned time!

And it can suck if you are doing it for the first time and they don't fit the bell housing perfectly like mine didn't and you need a grinder to grind out a little of that bell hosing.... ON A TRAIL!






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How many people do you think it'd take to hold Molly down while we cut off a limb? I'm guessing alot, plus ratchet straps, c-clamps, and other misc tools
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post #18 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-15-2007, 10:31 PM
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Shaddup.. It's cuz we wheel all the damned time!

And it can suck if you are doing it for the first time and they don't fit the bell housing perfectly like mine didn't and you need a grinder to grind out a little of that bell hosing.... ON A TRAIL!


Ah i thought you just meant swapping birfs not swapping in 30 splines. i too had to do some grinding to get mine just right, luckily some of the broken birfs from before had ground the inside bell down a little already

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post #19 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 12:14 AM
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Yeah see.. no reason for him to buy the bobby longs and wait for one to break only to have to do what we did (grind) while on the trail...




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How many people do you think it'd take to hold Molly down while we cut off a limb? I'm guessing alot, plus ratchet straps, c-clamps, and other misc tools
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post #20 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 01:30 AM
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Yeah see.. no reason for him to buy the bobby longs and wait for one to break only to have to do what we did (grind) while on the trail...
no reason to wait to put longs in period.

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post #21 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 09:27 AM
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Meh - you can drive home with broken birf(s), or just remove the outer.

I'm just saying that's $645 that doesn't HAVE to be spent at the time of the initial build.

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post #22 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 10:18 AM
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Meh - you can drive home with broken birf(s), or just remove the outer.

I'm just saying that's $645 that doesn't HAVE to be spent at the time of the initial build.
I don't suggest driving on a broken birfield. The bits of broken birfield can jam into the trunion bearings and you won't be able to steer. That could be fatal on the trail or on public roads. Pull the birfield, clean all the broken bits, and drive home without the inner or birfield.

I hate doing things twice (like swapping birfields for Longfields and rebuilding the front axle). I saved up and bit the bullet at the start. I don't plan on touching my front axle for years.
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post #23 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 11:30 AM
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Sorry in advance for the really long post!

Gonna go allllll the way back to your first post where you mentioned Zuk envy.

It sounds like you wheel the shit out of your rig, and the only thing you're envious of is a smaller package (that doesn't sound right). Before you spend the money, sort out what you see for this rig in five years...you still even plan on owning it then? What about yourself? Nothing but Carnage BV and Pritchett, or long range with views and 4.5+/5 (UT) ratings? You'll be hard pressed to do the latter in a Zuk, there's just not much space.

On the other hand...a guy that used to live down the street from me has a Zuk, it's basically a street legal starting point for a buggy, or maybe a side-by-side with more sheetmetal and a license plate, or a quad with more ponies, or...it's like a go-kart but on 33s. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of things he can't climb or descend that my (and your) wheelbase make a non-issue, but he'll fit around and on rocks that we have to drive over or make an off-camber shot at.

Another way to think of it...Brian E's comment regarding the FROR shop truck, with an 87" track width, is when you're that wide you don't really go around things, you plan to go over them...that's a downside if you don't have the flex to do it safely. With the Zuk you have options (like going around everything, but how much fun is that?), it's just that one of those options is not necessarily to spend a week and a half self-supported in the middle of nowhere, simply because you don't have room on basically an oversized quad for all the water, fuel, food, tools, gear, and toys you probably want to bring.

So...choose wisely before you drop coin on an SAS kit...I only say it because you mentioned the Zuk. Personally I (and probably everybody else here) would SAS the Toy and run trails to my heart's content, and save the narrows for a bike or something. If we wanted short range buggies starting with a cheap, street legal platform, we wouldn't be driving Toyotas...right?

Don't limit your axle choices to a particular brand...no wheeled axle stays stock, and there are enough aftermarket vendors with knowledge, experience and tooling that you can put an ARB locker in a Big Wheel with broom handle axle shafts or whatever. Do it based on width and strength, period...if the Yota axle will work for your build and the price is right, have at it . Just keep in mind sidehill stability and frame clearance with large tires...cuz if you're even thinking about SAS I'm assuming you're after larger tires than a 35, otherwise you may as well go LT and stop sweating fabrication and drivability.

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post #24 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 12:08 PM
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He already has 36's on the IFS Sean

Russel, here's what I've learned between Molly and I's trucks.

IFS locked front/rear will take you anywhere you want to go in a truck you care what it looks like.

SAS does not buy that much reliability (admittedly, you're often running harder trails that may break IFS more often). We work on Molly's rig at least as much as mine.

The trails you NEED a SAS for WILL incur body/glass damage. You have to consider your SAS'd rig as a street legal buggy and accept the tradeoffs that come with that.

A buggy gets to be not fun. Even the hardest trails are too easy, and its not fun for you to go 'wheeling with your friends because they can't do the trails that are hard enough for you to have fun.

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post #25 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 12:34 PM
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I agree with both Sean and Troy. A lot.

I have debated back and forth on a swap for well over a year now. Mine would be completely linked and coiloverd set up. Low, and wide. However, it is a ton of money to build two 2-3k axles, buy the coilovers, and get tires. We are looking at a min of 7-10k. While i'd love the challenge, after I finished, where would I go?

I'd have to beat my truck to a pulp just to challenge the rig. I'm not looking to do that. On the other hand, it'd be nice to quit breaking stuff.

I look at it this way. BV Carnage, 21 road, billings, patriot, and a handful of others are the trails in CO that are, for the most part, SAS nessesary. I would be very hard pressed to get out of any of those trails scratch free.

Now, the CLOSEST of those trails is 2.5-3 hours away. Trails around here, like Moody/crystal, MSV/Coney, Spring Creek, etc, would be yawn a minute. I'd be bored out of my skull. What fun is a trail if you can do the whole thing in 2wd?

Anyway, I still go back and forth, but mostly I think I will work on my IFS, get it a bit stronger, and go from there.

Personally, I don't like LT. To me it is a waste of money. Cost is comperable to a SAS, and you still have all sorts of weak components. My stock is just as weak, but I didn't spend any money on it, and it has only 4-5 less inches of flex. My front locker takes care of that for me.

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post #26 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
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SAS does not buy that much reliability (admittedly, you're often running harder trails that may break IFS more often). We work on Molly's rig at least as much as mine.
I think SAS buys a lot more reliablilty (if built correctly). I wheel with tons of IFS and SAS guys and all summer (18+ runs Moderate to Very Difficult). Most if not all the breakage was IFS related guys. I beat the hell out of my truck this summer, after building it for the last 4-5 years and i didnt have a hiccup for a problem.


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The trails you NEED a SAS for WILL incur body/glass damage. You have to consider your SAS'd rig as a street legal buggy and accept the tradeoffs that come with that.
While i Agree damage is likely. If armored correctly you can get away unscathed if you want. people run BV carefuly or well armored (not exo'd) and make it out.


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A buggy gets to be not fun. Even the hardest trails are too easy, and its not fun for you to go 'wheeling with your friends because they can't do the trails that are hard enough for you to have fun.
definitely agree its not fun to get too far away in your build from others.

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post #27 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-16-2007, 09:50 PM
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I know many ISF gods who had less problems than thier SAS pals... *sigh I miss TonkaToy*

Oh and here is a sick Zuk my buddy Dale built if you wanna go Zuke - talk to him first...

(He's on Indy here)


But then talk to Anthony his brother in law - a yota tech with tons of gearing expereince and he's stear ya towards a yota...



Russ.. you are a yota guy - always have been... but you know what you want




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How many people do you think it'd take to hold Molly down while we cut off a limb? I'm guessing alot, plus ratchet straps, c-clamps, and other misc tools
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post #28 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-18-2007, 02:26 AM Thread Starter
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Ok heres what i figured out.

Lexi gets,Front locker,bumpers and the canback with the interior as planned and gears. Then shes done. Still going to wheel her bit on easier trails and for camping. She has a trailer hitch so she will be the tow and when i brake the other rig truck. I have a flatbed so heres the skinny.

Im going to find an 84-85 pick up or maybe a runner if all else fails. if its a truck bed cage it if its a runner bob it and a soft top but just for shade. It will be a full on trail rig. Cut the fenders up pull the doors off winch front bumper and sliders maybe some tubes as money allows. Im going to build the axles as much as i can and the goal is 38's to 40's but low and cut up. This is something i dont have to care about the body and can flop it and do up my own graphics with rocks and trees. I just cant cut up lexy i tried to cut the fenders...the ones im replacing and i cant even bring my self to do it. After the paint and bumpers are on it i will start my search for the perfect trail trash rig.

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post #29 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-18-2007, 07:59 AM
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Sounds like a good plan, but I don't think Lexi will tow the trail rig over any passes ... not without a turbo anyways...

Keep in mind that the trail rig is gonna be HEAVY, plus 500-1000 lbs for a trailer (cuz flat towing is just plain silly).

38's - 40's you need to start looking for axles, or saving up for some diamond or Spidertrax custom ones.

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post #30 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-18-2007, 09:19 AM
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Stock Toyota axles will handle 38-40's just fine. Plently of ARP stuff for the front axle and cyro'd R&P, you'll be fine. I like the idea of having a trail rig, that's what I've got. They're fun to own knowing you can still make it to work on Monday if you break anything
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