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post #91 of 190 (permalink) Old 10-04-2010, 10:57 AM Thread Starter
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Are you guys both using the 20cf bottles? I may just use Tractor Supply's gas exchange. I hear the gas is a little more expensive, but they're open on weekends and evenings. 20cf bottle is $120 and 40cf is $200


On another note, the 4runner is rolling again. I screwed up and made both driveshafts an inch or so too short. May have to redo those if they pull apart on me.. Plenty of little things to finish up before Friday, but we'll be there.
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post #92 of 190 (permalink) Old 10-04-2010, 11:13 AM
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Are you guys both using the 20cf bottles? I may just use Tractor Supply's gas exchange. I hear the gas is a little more expensive, but they're open on weekends and evenings. 20cf bottle is $120 and 40cf is $200


On another note, the 4runner is rolling again. I screwed up and made both driveshafts an inch or so too short. May have to redo those if they pull apart on me.. Plenty of little things to finish up before Friday, but we'll be there.
Aaron, I think I have a 20 CF bottle. It lasts a long time. It costs $18 and some change at AWI to exchange with 75/25.



Yea, been there, done that with the driveshaft dillemma I dunno what it is. They're just deceptively difficult to size. Makes me feel better I'm not the only one

What are you doing for the front shaft? Did it already have a long-travel slip?

Did you decide to mount up your 36s?


Lookin' forward to seein' another 'Runner at the SCC!
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post #93 of 190 (permalink) Old 10-04-2010, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
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Aaron, I think I have a 20 CF bottle. It lasts a long time. It costs $18 and some change at AWI to exchange with 75/25.



Yea, been there, done that with the driveshaft dillemma I dunno what it is. They're just deceptively difficult to size. Makes me feel better I'm not the only one

What are you doing for the front shaft? Did it already have a long-travel slip?

Did you decide to mount up your 36s?


Lookin' forward to seein' another 'Runner at the SCC!
Next time I'll remember that you have to account for the angle in the joints. It had a TG 8" travel when I got it, but I'm just not convinced that's enough even if I hadn't screwed it up. 36s sucked to mount up, but they're on. I've also got a knock in the motor that needs diagnosed sometime this week.
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post #94 of 190 (permalink) Old 10-04-2010, 12:27 PM
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Next time I'll remember that you have to account for the angle in the joints. It had a TG 8" travel when I got it, but I'm just not convinced that's enough even if I hadn't screwed it up. 36s sucked to mount up, but they're on. I've also got a knock in the motor that needs diagnosed sometime this week.
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post #95 of 190 (permalink) Old 10-04-2010, 12:33 PM
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Are you guys both using the 20cf bottles? I may just use Tractor Supply's gas exchange. I hear the gas is a little more expensive, but they're open on weekends and evenings. 20cf bottle is $120 and 40cf is $200
I'm pretty sure I have a Q bottle which is 80cf.



The 20cf or 40cf will just annoy you because you'd be refilling it all the time methinks. My 80cf lasts a long time as long as you remember to shut off the valve when done.

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post #96 of 190 (permalink) Old 10-04-2010, 01:08 PM
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I'd go with the 40, Aaron. My bottle lasts a while, and I have yet to really get super annoyed by running out of gas midway through something. It's fine for me, but maybe not for you. Get the 40 and you'll probably be better off.

EDIT: After looking at the chart, I'm thinking I have a 40. It weighs a lot more than 11 lbs (20CF weight) empty.

Definitely do the 40. Don't waste your time with the 20. That'd really suck...
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post #97 of 190 (permalink) Old 10-05-2010, 12:00 AM
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I'm pretty sure I have a Q bottle which is 80cf.



The 20cf or 40cf will just annoy you because you'd be refilling it all the time methinks. My 80cf lasts a long time as long as you remember to shut off the valve when done.
Hey Josh is my bottle larger than the one u have? You have seen mine, ya may rember? I'm thinking mine is like, 135 NV though, not the 122 listed for the LQ. I guess the place I deal with may possily have different sizes than the usual. I pay a yearly lease of 30, or so and it cost just over 60 bills to fill and I fill average 2.5 times a year, Sometimes more, sometimes less. I went through 4 bottles of gas between spring of 09, and just 2 weeks ago.

Sheilding gas is definately the way to go!

Whats left of a 85 Toyota, 22r Slightly Modified, Got propane, lots of tube n stuff.

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post #98 of 190 (permalink) Old 10-05-2010, 07:35 AM
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Hey Josh is my bottle larger than the one u have? You have seen mine, ya may rember?
Yes, your tank is bigger than mine.

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post #99 of 190 (permalink) Old 10-05-2010, 07:54 AM
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I pay a yearly lease of 30, or so and it cost just over 60 bills to fill
That's not a bad deal! 30 bills a year to lease is definitely worth it if you're doing as much welding as you are, Michael!
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post #100 of 190 (permalink) Old 10-05-2010, 10:46 AM
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That's not a bad deal! 30 bills a year to lease is definitely worth it if you're doing as much welding as you are, Michael!
The way they set up the lease was really strange. I paid like $200-$250, for the 1st year, and to start the lease. Its a 5 year lease, with no charge for renewing, the contract. It seemed the 1st 2 years were more expensive, but after the 1st years it has leveled out. I'm in my 3rd or 4th year now. And , just so ya know I underestimated both the lease and refill, by atleast $5 ea,and all this is through Ozark Gas.

Origonally I bought a bottle through Airgas. Refilling was expensive and the hassell of going to Jonesboro to refill, was a PIA. I traded the airgas bottle for a bottle from a company called, Force technologies, who was doing deliveries/exchanges in my area. They soon went out of buisness, and now I'm stuck with a bottle I can't fill. I have been threatening to make a high powered potato cannon with it.

Any how thats my experiance...hope it helps

Whats left of a 85 Toyota, 22r Slightly Modified, Got propane, lots of tube n stuff.

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post #101 of 190 (permalink) Old 10-05-2010, 10:49 AM
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Can't refill, huh? What are their reasons for not being able to refill it? That seems kinda silly
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post #102 of 190 (permalink) Old 10-05-2010, 11:28 AM Thread Starter
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Can't refill, huh? What are their reasons for not being able to refill it? That seems kinda silly
If it was a big bottle, chances are that it was leased and not actually owned. Someone probably bought the rights to that company's bottles though. Just do some research and you should be able to find the company that did and they will fill it for ya.
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post #103 of 190 (permalink) Old 10-05-2010, 01:08 PM
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If it was a big bottle, chances are that it was leased and not actually owned. Someone probably bought the rights to that company's bottles though. Just do some research and you should be able to find the company that did and they will fill it for ya.
How do I go about finding the info about who bought the rights? I have no idea where to start.
It is a 125 NV bottle. Along the top rim of the bottle is the lettering of the company who owns the rights to the bottle. The bottle has Force Technologies in that area. I own this bottle it as not a leased bottle.

Here is an old address, and a disconected phone number for them. They were based in Harrisburg but ran delivery routes in my area.

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oG7kzoea...e-Technologies


The local companies said they don't fill other companies bottles, but it seems noone wants to share the info i need to get back to being able to refill, or start over, with another company. My friend who turned me onto the force technologies company back then, had a small buisness, acct with them and was filling about 4 different bottles, argon/co2, co2, nitrous, and something else but I dont rember what. He told me he started new with another company. What he didn't tell me was that he prolly had a standing balance with Force Technologies, when they went bankrupt. It may have verry likely worked out better for him to start over, and have his account dissovled in their bankrupcy.

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post #104 of 190 (permalink) Old 10-05-2010, 01:46 PM Thread Starter
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Do you have any paperwork that says you own the bottle? Or does it have "customer owned" or "sold" stamped on it?
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post #105 of 190 (permalink) Old 10-05-2010, 11:44 PM
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Do you have any paperwork that says you own the bottle? Or does it have "customer owned" or "sold" stamped on it?
Do any companies do that to bottles, mark the bottles as customer owned, i mean? Doing so shure would make exchanging bottles awefully hard. I had a reciept, and it may still be around here somewhere, but I havent even been motivated to look for it. When we moved to the new house I found the reciept for the welder and origonal tank from Airgas, Knowing me the FT reciept is in the same bundle of paperwork in the shop.

Is there a reason you think I need the reciept? Each copmany stamps their name on their bottles, along with a number for each bottle, so the Govt can track the responsability to the distributors. The bottles have to meet govt guidlines, and the responsability for that falls on the dist of the bottles/gas not the purchaser. I think this is why no other companys were willing to fill my bottle, last time I tried. I guess I'm pretty happy with my current sheilding gas provider. I will quit hyjackinyour thred, and do as I have for the past few years, and just go with it. I was PO about it all when all this came about, but its done now, and I'm over it. It would be nice to start filling the bottle again, but with what conspired I figure its done deal.

Whats left of a 85 Toyota, 22r Slightly Modified, Got propane, lots of tube n stuff.

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post #106 of 190 (permalink) Old 10-06-2010, 07:41 AM
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i wanna see the potato gun

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post #107 of 190 (permalink) Old 10-06-2010, 08:32 AM Thread Starter
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I have no firsthand knowledge on any of this, but have been reading up a bunch since I decided I was gonna buy a mig. From my research, it seems that most user-owned bottles either have no stamp on the neck ring or some have been stamped user-owned or sold if they were once owned by the company. If you have proof that you own the bottle (a receipt), then it is your bottle not Force Technology's and you should be able to fill it wherever you want. The only regulation I know of is the pressure test, which is the owner's responsibility. It's just easier to pay the supplier to send the bottle off to be tested. Are you sure it's an owned bottle and not a "lifetime lease" deal? Apparantly there are companies that will "lease" a bottle with one up-front fee but you have to refill it through them. In that case, they would actually still own the bottle. And it turns out it's pretty rare for a company to sell their big (>80cf) bottles.

I'm pretty sure I hijacked my own thread, so no worries about that. If I can't put any toyota tech in here, we'll make do with shielding gas tech.
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post #108 of 190 (permalink) Old 10-06-2010, 10:36 AM
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Haha! Derailed, suckers!

I'm confused now. I BOUGHT my bottle (or so I thought...) but I exchange it - it isn't refilled on the spot. Therefore, how could they mark "PURCHASED" or anything on the bottle I bought unless they have plenty of exchange bottles with the same denotation? Hell, I guess I could just call AWI, but speculation is so much more fun
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post #109 of 190 (permalink) Old 10-06-2010, 10:56 AM Thread Starter
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Haha! Derailed, suckers!

I'm confused now. I BOUGHT my bottle (or so I thought...) but I exchange it - it isn't refilled on the spot. Therefore, how could they mark "PURCHASED" or anything on the bottle I bought unless they have plenty of exchange bottles with the same denotation? Hell, I guess I could just call AWI, but speculation is so much more fun
I'm sure you bought your little bottle. Does it have anything stamped on the neck ring? From what I've read, the larger chain places won't lease little bottles and won't sell the big bottles. Chances are that all the 80cf and smaller bottles are owned and all the 125+ are leased bottles with a few exceptions.
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post #110 of 190 (permalink) Old 10-06-2010, 11:27 AM
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I have no firsthand knowledge on any of this, but have been reading up a bunch since I decided I was gonna buy a mig. From my research, it seems that most user-owned bottles either have no stamp on the neck ring or some have been stamped user-owned or sold if they were once owned by the company. If you have proof that you own the bottle (a receipt), then it is your bottle not Force Technology's and you should be able to fill it wherever you want. The only regulation I know of is the pressure test, which is the owner's responsibility. It's just easier to pay the supplier to send the bottle off to be tested. Are you sure it's an owned bottle and not a "lifetime lease" deal? Apparantly there are companies that will "lease" a bottle with one up-front fee but you have to refill it through them. In that case, they would actually still own the bottle. And it turns out it's pretty rare for a company to sell their big (>80cf) bottles.

I'm pretty sure I hijacked my own thread, so no worries about that. If I can't put any toyota tech in here, we'll make do with shielding gas tech.
Honestly I'm not shure if its lifetime lease, or owned, now. I thought it was owned, but that may not be so. when I switched to Force Tech, back then the guy I dealt with was a salesman, and ya know salesmen. They will tell ya what ya want to hear as long as it makes the sale. Each time I have mentioned it to my current supplier, they say they won't fill it but they will take the tank if I want to get rid of it. It makes me wonder if it might hold some value, or if I could someday refill it.

I know its not exactly the same, but I bought my propane tanks 2nd hand and can have em filled at any of the local propane places. Why can't it be that easy with sheilding gas ???

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post #111 of 190 (permalink) Old 10-06-2010, 11:45 AM
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I'll sleuth this a little more on my end with my supplier. I have a pretty good salesperson I trust.

I would think propane and gas are different in that a bottle of shielding gas may be filled with different gases and is under much higher pressure

A quick google search shows propane tanks to be up to 200 psi whereas my last fill got my bottle to 2250~2500 psi. I would think that's why propane is much easier to get (doesn't make since because it's highly combustible compared to CO2...)

I dunno, Michael. Good point!
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post #112 of 190 (permalink) Old 10-06-2010, 03:18 PM Thread Starter
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Back on topic. I discovered I have a ton of slack in my timing chain. Picking a new timing set up at Advance tonight and hope to get it in before Friday. I would have preferred to get one from engnbldr, but there just isn't time. With luck that's gonna solve my knocking/rattling sound I've been hearing.
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post #113 of 190 (permalink) Old 10-06-2010, 03:27 PM
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Just make sure it has the large holes in it. For some reason those are the best. Wherever Daniel got his, that's the place to go. The timing chain kit I got before (can't remember where I got it...) had small holes in the cam gear, and it was noisy as hell. Daniel's kit has worked great
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post #114 of 190 (permalink) Old 10-06-2010, 10:57 PM Thread Starter
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Not a very productive evening. I've been getting a loud knock/rattle at startup which goes away after a second or two but reappears at higher rpms. After a bunch of phone calls I wasn't convinced it was the timing chain, but decided to pull the oil pan off anyhow and found a ton of plastic chunks inside with a few aluminum shavings. Spent the whole night getting the timing cover off to find what appears to be a brand new timing set already installed. The tensioner had some wear but the guides looked great. Not sure why the PO didn't drop the pan and clean it out the first time. I went ahead and replaced the timing set again and quit for the night. Still need to put the timing cover and everything else back together, but I have little hope that this job is gonna solve my noise. Before I started today, I pulled out the stethoscope and all the cylinders sounded the same with the noise most noticeable at the valve cover I think. Tried pulling one plug out at a time with no results. Makes me think it's not in the block, but the valve clearances look good and I'm pretty sure it's not the timing chain now. Any ideas? Hopefully I can at least get it buttoned back up before Friday. If it's still knocking, screw it.
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post #115 of 190 (permalink) Old 10-06-2010, 11:50 PM
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Not a very productive evening. I've been getting a loud knock/rattle at startup which goes away after a second or two but reappears at higher rpms. After a bunch of phone calls I wasn't convinced it was the timing chain, but decided to pull the oil pan off anyhow and found a ton of plastic chunks inside with a few aluminum shavings. Spent the whole night getting the timing cover off to find what appears to be a brand new timing set already installed. The tensioner had some wear but the guides looked great. Not sure why the PO didn't drop the pan and clean it out the first time. I went ahead and replaced the timing set again and quit for the night. Still need to put the timing cover and everything else back together, but I have little hope that this job is gonna solve my noise. Before I started today, I pulled out the stethoscope and all the cylinders sounded the same with the noise most noticeable at the valve cover I think. Tried pulling one plug out at a time with no results. Makes me think it's not in the block, but the valve clearances look good and I'm pretty sure it's not the timing chain now. Any ideas? Hopefully I can at least get it buttoned back up before Friday. If it's still knocking, screw it.
I was certainit was in the bottom end. Hows the cam look? Any ears wore badly?

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post #116 of 190 (permalink) Old 10-07-2010, 07:22 AM Thread Starter
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I was certainit was in the bottom end. Hows the cam look? Any ears wore badly?
I originally thought it was coming from the bottom end too, but so far I've got nothing conclusive. I'll check the cam more in depth tonight as well as check the rod bearings. If those all look good and I can't think of anything else to check, I'm just gonna put it back together and run it.
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post #117 of 190 (permalink) Old 10-07-2010, 09:46 PM Thread Starter
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And it's the rod bearings... Cyl 4 looks pretty bad and 2 is showing copper. The journals all look okay with some faint wear on #4. Not much I can do about that without having it machined and there's no time for that mess. Wish I would have picked some bearings up earlier today. Guess I'll be working on that tomorrow afternoon. I don't have any way of knowing what size I need, but I have a feeling they're the original std bearings. That's the only size available within 300 miles, so I'm gonna try them and check the clearances with plastiguage.
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post #118 of 190 (permalink) Old 10-09-2010, 09:24 AM
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And it's the rod bearings... Cyl 4 looks pretty bad and 2 is showing copper. The journals all look okay with some faint wear on #4. Not much I can do about that without having it machined and there's no time for that mess. Wish I would have picked some bearings up earlier today. Guess I'll be working on that tomorrow afternoon. I don't have any way of knowing what size I need, but I have a feeling they're the original std bearings. That's the only size available within 300 miles, so I'm gonna try them and check the clearances with plastiguage.
the size will be on the outside of the bearings if standard size it will say either std or nothing at all, if its undersized it will show .010 or .25mm

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post #119 of 190 (permalink) Old 04-05-2011, 12:31 PM Thread Starter
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It's been a long time since I've updated this. Things that have been added:

-2.28/4.7 dual cases using Marlins MC07 adapter and a Trail Gear crossmember
-All-Pro Offroad Transfer Case E-Brake
-Artec Industries battery box and Diehard Platinum (Rebadged Odyssey)
-New exhaust pieced together using parts store exhaust pipe and a Walker Muffler
-Honda Prelude seats w/ some cheap seat covers installed
-Steinhaus style sliders
-Some fender trimming

I'm trading the old truck's flatbed for a stock bed off an 84-88 pickup. Planning to bob the 4runner 8-9 inches and graft the pickup rear section with tailgate onto it. That will allow me to trim the 4 inches below the tailgate off and build a wraparound bumper. Some more fender trimming and minor fixes will be next while I'm waiting for Frontier4x4 to start producing their front bumpers again. I will have pictures up of the bob progress when it gets underway.
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post #120 of 190 (permalink) Old 04-05-2011, 01:06 PM
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Hot dang!

Hurry up with your bed graft so you can try to cobble mine together... after I find a bed

BTW, credit goes to Dave Lay's old rig "Kracker" for the inspiration on the sliders, and I believe the previous owner did that. They weren't cut into the rockers, but tucked up tight. I got the idea of cutting in to the rockers from a thread on Pirate about replacing the rockers.

...And that's how the cookie crumbles...

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