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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-30-2008, 04:18 PM Thread Starter
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Intercooler/Aftercooler for 3.4 TRD SC

Has anyone ever had a custom water to air intercooler made for their truck, or know anyone that's tried? Something like the new 4.0 TRD intercooled system or what you see on Stillen's 350Z Intercooled Roots kits that bolt between the charger and intake manifold?

It would probably require hood modifications to deal with the increased height, but something like this seems like it would make a lot of sense with a low failure rate and be fairly straight forward to install. Bolt it on and plumb in coolant inlet/outlet. Longer belt.

I know the URD and TRD 7th injector kits see a minor cooling effect, and URD offers H2O/Meth kits.

Thoughts and/or experience?

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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-30-2008, 05:34 PM
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I have heard of it being attempted, but I have never seen a finished product. You will have to weld up a cooler core that mounts between the intake manifold and the blower.

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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-30-2008, 05:57 PM
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it works but the manifold has to be designed for it. i worked for stillen and vf eng. and these kits were designed for use with a air to water intercooler and you just take them out if its not wanted(dont know why). the air to water is the way to go for efficiency and i wouldent even mess with water/alcohol injection.

the cost is much higher to go this route and more parts( water/air cooler, radiator, elec water pump, tank.

as with anything it can be done, i used to head up r&d at vf so if you haveany more q's let me know and i dont recall how th charger setup is on the older tacos but i may be able to make something work for you.

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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-30-2008, 06:19 PM
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ive thought about trying to cool the air charge before the s/c as it wouldnt need as many mods to pull off.

the gains wouldnt be as dramatic but im sure it couldnt hurt...


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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-30-2008, 08:50 PM
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you can get small intercoolers that came stock on old turbo volvos for next to nothing, know alot of vw guys that use them. not the best or pretty but might be good for experimenting without wasting $
i know this isnt customtacos but thats my

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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-30-2008, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by RallyToy View Post
Has anyone ever had a custom water to air intercooler made for their truck, or know anyone that's tried? Something like the new 4.0 TRD intercooled system or what you see on Stillen's 350Z Intercooled Roots kits that bolt between the charger and intake manifold?

It would probably require hood modifications to deal with the increased height, but something like this seems like it would make a lot of sense with a low failure rate and be fairly straight forward to install. Bolt it on and plumb in coolant inlet/outlet. Longer belt.

I know the URD and TRD 7th injector kits see a minor cooling effect, and URD offers H2O/Meth kits.

Thoughts and/or experience?
I tried it years ago on a Gen 1 s/c.

http://home.comcast.net/~bsims34/ic.htm

It was a fun little project.

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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-01-2008, 07:54 AM
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I tried it years ago on a Gen 1 s/c.

http://home.comcast.net/~bsims34/ic.htm

It was a fun little project.

Brian
Looks like you learned a lot. You could have used Evans waterless coolant to get rid of the water corrosion problem.

All in all, I'd say you might as well go to a turbo if you want intercooled boost. I find the Aquamist wi works ok too. I don't hear any ping (up to 10.5 lbs of boost).

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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-01-2008, 09:43 AM Thread Starter
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the cost is much higher to go this route and more parts( water/air cooler, radiator, elec water pump, tank.
True, it seems more intricate than H2O/Meth injection, but no refills. Pretty much forget about it, other than to change the coolant occasionally.

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as with anything it can be done, i used to head up r&d at vf so if you haveany more q's let me know and i dont recall how th charger setup is on the older tacos but i may be able to make something work for you.
I'll definitely keep you in mind. If I decide to go this route, I'll be doing it this fall, once I get my tranny VB upgraded. I don't have any welding/fabrication abilities at home, or the skill/experience, for that matter. Seems like there's plenty of room for a heat exchanger between the grill and radiator, even with my tranny cooler. Looks fairly straightforward to bolt something between the charger and intake, as well.

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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-01-2008, 09:45 AM Thread Starter
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ive thought about trying to cool the air charge before the s/c as it wouldnt need as many mods to pull off.

the gains wouldnt be as dramatic but im sure it couldnt hurt...
I've found several posts on a couple of forums about people trying to rig their AC up, but they never posted back with any results and one of them gave up.

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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-01-2008, 09:54 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpsims View Post
I tried it years ago on a Gen 1 s/c.

http://home.comcast.net/~bsims34/ic.htm

It was a fun little project.

Brian
Wow, crazy project. I'm impressed. Looks similar to these:

http://www.lhtperformance.net/Superc.../upgrades.html

I was thinking more along the lines of something that bolts between the intake and supercharger, though.

Too bad someone from the aftermarket world hadn't jumped on this back when they first released the 3.4 supercharger. Seems like all of the roots kits are coming out with air to water intercoolers now. Maybe the technology has just recently arrived at a reasonable cost.

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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-01-2008, 10:06 AM Thread Starter
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Looks like you learned a lot. You could have used Evans waterless coolant to get rid of the water corrosion problem.

All in all, I'd say you might as well go to a turbo if you want intercooled boost. I find the Aquamist wi works ok too. I don't hear any ping (up to 10.5 lbs of boost).
The custom fab and non-smogability here in CA kind of rules out the turbo option for me. With the TRD being smog legal, all I'd have to do is remove the intercooler every 2 years to smog it, rather than everything involved with the turbo.

I picked up a SC cheap off of Craigslist and had it rebuilt by Magnuson, so I'm already headed down that road. I really like the power/torque curve of roots supercharged motors, not to mention the simplicity/reliability of the overall package, when tuned right. I'm not crazy about the heat issues with turbos, either.

I've owned both a supercharged (Camden) and a turboed 22re truck. While I really enjoyed the top-end pull of the turbo on the street, the supercharger fit my daily driving and off-roading preferences better.

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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-01-2008, 10:09 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tinkertoy View Post
you can get small intercoolers that came stock on old turbo volvos for next to nothing, know alot of vw guys that use them. not the best or pretty but might be good for experimenting without wasting $
i know this isnt customtacos but thats my
Not sure about all of the Volvos, but I believe they were air to air set-ups and wouldn't offer much benefit inline before the air is compressed.

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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-01-2008, 10:48 AM
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its not worth the money to try to cool the air before the s/c .with the heat of compression theres not too much cooler inlet air temps will do .

from the looks of it it very possible to move the charger up and bolt in a cooler core.

my buddy has a water/alchol inj system in his ford prerunner and has nothing but problems when the resi level gets low in the rough stuff. no matter how you put it for offroad its unreliable

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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-01-2008, 12:31 PM Thread Starter
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its not worth the money to try to cool the air before the s/c .with the heat of compression theres not too much cooler inlet air temps will do .

from the looks of it it very possible to move the charger up and bolt in a cooler core.

my buddy has a water/alchol inj system in his ford prerunner and has nothing but problems when the resi level gets low in the rough stuff. no matter how you put it for offroad its unreliable
That was one of the main things that lead me to look at an intercooler/aftercooler. I don't want something that's going to run dry on me when I get on it offroad. It has a place street/strip, just not off road, IMHO. I'm sure there's those who've had no problems off road.

I'll probably just run the URD 7th with their 2.2 pulley while I sort it out. I trust Gadget on reputation alone and if he says it's a safe combo for daily driving, I believe him.

Besides the power increase, I'd like to intercool it to decrease heat stress on the motor for longevity's sake.

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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-01-2008, 01:08 PM
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What kind of off-roading are you guys doing? I very rarely get into boost off-road. I guess the desert racers might need to carry an extra jug of water/meth.

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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-01-2008, 10:21 PM Thread Starter
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What kind of off-roading are you guys doing? I very rarely get into boost off-road. I guess the desert racers might need to carry an extra jug of water/meth.
Yeah, the whoops at speed make sure nothing stays where it's supposed to be.

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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-02-2008, 09:14 AM
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The TRD Supercharger for the 5vz is a nice unit. It is proven very reliable and it makes decent power. They fell just a little short on engine management and fuel delivery, but URD can help you there.

Several people over time have tried to rig up a charge air cooler with the TRD Supercharger and non have proven to be worth the trouble or cost.

If you really want a charge air cooler it would be simpler to start from scratch instead of attempting to modify the TRD unit.

Here is a picture of a supercharger system in its early prototype stage. It runs well and I hope to have some better prictures of things when I get parts back from the powder coater.


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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-02-2008, 09:39 AM
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Very interesting. I can't wait to see where this goes...


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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-02-2008, 05:57 PM
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Gadget is this a kit URD is putting together for future sale(please oh please ) or is this you just having fun? More importantly what are your projected numbers for this system? Your knowledge and imput are always valued on these forums, thanks for taking the time to mingle with us less informed folks


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The TRD Supercharger for the 5vz is a nice unit. It is proven very reliable and it makes decent power. They fell just a little short on engine management and fuel delivery, but URD can help you there.

Several people over time have tried to rig up a charge air cooler with the TRD Supercharger and non have proven to be worth the trouble or cost.

If you really want a charge air cooler it would be simpler to start from scratch instead of attempting to modify the TRD unit.

Here is a picture of a supercharger system in its early prototype stage. It runs well and I hope to have some better prictures of things when I get parts back from the powder coater.

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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-03-2008, 08:45 AM
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outer cooler

I was playing with a couple of ideas with a buddy of mine who owns a Neon SRT and the idea of thermo wrapping the outside of the supercharger and hooking up a co2 to spray under the wrap. As far as how to manage the bursts of co2 or how much cooling the outside of the charger would do, I dont know. Just an Idea. It would probrably look ugly as shit as well.

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post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-03-2008, 09:30 AM
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I was playing with a couple of ideas with a buddy of mine who owns a Neon SRT and the idea of thermo wrapping the outside of the supercharger and hooking up a co2 to spray under the wrap. As far as how to manage the bursts of co2 or how much cooling the outside of the charger would do, I dont know. Just an Idea. It would probrably look ugly as shit as well.
That's a horrible idea, the SCer is not a heat exchanger so the cooling of the air would be minimal. But worse yet the bearings, bearing oil, impelers, gaskets, etc... would be subject to extreme swings in temp. Thermal expansion/contraction could be catastrophic for parts whirling at high rpms and tight tolerances. Plus cold metal is more brittle. Need I go on?

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post #22 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-03-2008, 10:06 AM
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AHH, makes sense. I guess Ill go pull all the renolds wrap tinfoil off my motor I was thinking more or less wrapping the neck of the S/C right after the throttle boddy and ending before the nose or even before the body of the unit, but your right all in all bad idea.

Didn't ford do a prototype with the intercooler incorperating the air conditioning to create a super cool intake temp? I think it was on a lightning (mabe 2008) that never got released. Any ideas on how they would get that to work?

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post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-03-2008, 10:36 AM
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Didn't ford do a prototype with the intercooler incorperating the air conditioning to create a super cool intake temp?
I don't know, but they did design the Pinto gas tanks.

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post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-04-2008, 09:04 AM
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Didn't ford do a prototype with the intercooler incorperating the air conditioning to create a super cool intake temp? I think it was on a lightning (mabe 2008) that never got released. Any ideas on how they would get that to work?
Yes they did.

The way that worked is they used the A/C to chill down some coolant and when you mashed the throttle it would pump it into the intercooler system and it would make the charge air cooler for a short period of time. Then it would have to recharge.

A few people using the URD Supercharger system rigged up an icewater box for drag racing. That would pump chilled ice water through the intercooler core and really drop the charge air temp. This is good for short term use like drag racing, then you have to drain it and load it back up with new ice and water. Works great!!!

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post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-04-2008, 03:08 PM
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Is this the 3.4 Rotrex S/C setup I've been seeing rumors on CT about for some time now?

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post #26 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-07-2008, 10:01 AM Thread Starter
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The TRD Supercharger for the 5vz is a nice unit. It is proven very reliable and it makes decent power. They fell just a little short on engine management and fuel delivery, but URD can help you there.

Several people over time have tried to rig up a charge air cooler with the TRD Supercharger and non have proven to be worth the trouble or cost.

If you really want a charge air cooler it would be simpler to start from scratch instead of attempting to modify the TRD unit.

Here is a picture of a supercharger system in its early prototype stage. It runs well and I hope to have some better prictures of things when I get parts back from the powder coater.
Very nice FMIC setup for the front of a 1st gen Tacoma/4Runner. I'd ultimately prefer to go this route for simplicity's sake, but as you said above, it's not really possible with the TRD unit. I'm assuming this system is put together with one of your Rotrex superchargers like the 4.0 kit you offer. Especially since I think I see the Rotrex oil cooler in the upper right hand corner.

Any chance this'll be offered up to the masses?!

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post #27 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 10:12 PM
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Saw a pretty cool setup last year. The guy had a 1st gen supercharger for the 3.4 motor. They put the A-W unit inside of the intake part of the charger. Saw another one where they added an intake spacer and then sandwiched the cooler between the intake portion and the actual supercharger. It would only work on 1st gen because the supercharger is independent of the manifold. The 2nd gen is all one piece.
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post #28 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-17-2019, 06:53 PM
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Hi guys,

Reliving an OLD! thread.

Interested in the intercooler setup but the link above doesn't work.

http://home.comcast.net/~bsims34/ic.htm

Does anyone happen to have the photos?

Thanks!
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