[DCabTaco]

Ok I have a 83 toy with a 22r motor. It cranks but wont start. It ran fine until all of a sudden it wouldn't start. At first I thought it was the ignitor, so I replaced it. Still no start. After more investigation I noticed it has spark and it is getting gas into it, but it cranks like it didn't have spark. My question is could the timing chain have either slipped, broken or maybe a timing chain gear. I am fairly new to the 22r motor and I'm not aware of the common problems that come about from it. Could it be anything else? I would hate to try to open up the engine without exploring all other possibilities. Any information would be gratly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[rojodiablo]

Do a compression check; this will usually tell you if the timing chain went south. Probably bent some valves if it went. Check em all.

 

[Murderman]

I had an '83 RN38 for many years in various forms, although the 22R spent alot of its life in my '80 celica after the 4.3 mod.

The '83 truck engine is one of very few models with a single timing chain; when I rebuilt if for the Celica, I switched to double. It may well be knackered...how many miles?

Do the standard no start troubleshooting sequence as you are already in the process of... spark ignition engines need three things...spark, fuel, and compression.

If you have good spark at the plugs, check the ignition timing.

Since the engine is carbureted, you should be able to see fuel being discharged from the accelerator pump nozzles into the throttle body when you pump the pedal. Even if the carb is completely gunked, you should get a "pop" off the accelerator pump fuel. Also, catch a sample at the carb inlet to insure the fuel is not contaminated.

Next check the valve timing; it is a piece of cake on that engine. Hell, I used to ADJUST my valves every other oil change since it was so convenient!

Lastly, run a compression test; again very easy.

After that, if you don't know why it won't start, consider suicide.

BTW, I have an original FSM for that particular model if you think you can convince me to scan a page or three.

Good fortune, John

 

[BOOBANELLI21]

Ok I have a 83 toy with a 22r motor. It cranks but wont start. It ran fine until all of a sudden it wouldn't start. At first I thought it was the ignitor, so I replaced it. Still no start. After more investigation I noticed it has spark and it is getting gas into it, but it cranks like it didn't have spark. My question is could the timing chain have either slipped, broken or maybe a timing chain gear. I am fairly new to the 22r motor and I'm not aware of the common problems that come about from it. Could it be anything else? I would hate to try to open up the engine without exploring all other possibilities. Any information would be gratly appreciated. Thanks.

I just went through this with my 87 22r. I decided to pull the valve cover and see if the timing mark on the cam gear was on...and it was way off. Seems as though the timing chain guide decided to break which led to the chain itself jumping some teeth. I noticed it cranked a lot faster without that chain tension.

 

[Live4yotas]

Man I have a 83 22r thats about to be sitting in the yard. I blew a head gasket and had a bad oil leak other than that the 22r will run like a new one. Replacing it with a 302. If you live close to alabama i'll make a really good deal on engine and trans.

 

[DCabTaco]

Thanks to all. I did the compression check right after I posted. It only has good compression on the #1 piston, However it won't hold it. I guess my next step is to pull off the valve cover and verify the timing chain or related items may have gone bad. Thanks again. Oh and sorry I live in California, but thanks for the offer on the engine.

 

[Murderman]

Sure sounds like a timing chain; easy enough to verify for certain by checking the valve timing.

You may want to consider upgrading to a double roller chain if you plan to keep it a while. If you do, you will need to get an oil pump drive gear from an engine that originally had double roller, because they are different. I am assuming that you will be replacing the two chain damper anyway.

 

[DCabTaco]

Yup it looks like the chain jumped 4 teeth. I took the valve cover off and set it to TDC. The dot on the cam gear is about 4 teeth before the top. The chain also appears loose. Just for my knowledge, should the chain be slightly loose when I install it? Like mentioned before I might have bent some valves. What else should I look at that might have been damaged by this?

 

[Renaud33]

Yup it looks like the chain jumped 4 teeth. I took the valve cover off and set it to TDC. The dot on the cam gear is about 4 teeth before the top. The chain also appears loose. Just for my knowledge, should the chain be slightly loose when I install it? Like mentioned before I might have bent some valves. What else should I look at that might have been damaged by this?

First I will say I am far from a mechanic like many of us. I don't recall my timing chain being loose or sloppy after replacing it. However what is loose to one may not be loose to another. Perhaps the tensioner is shot? Could you tell if your guide rails are broken? If you haven't done a timing chain for 50,000 miles or more or don't know when it was last done might be a good idea to replace it. I recommend getting a timing chain kit from http://www.engnbldr.com/

Ted at engnbldr is very knowledgeable and helpful. I have seen comments from Ted on the pirate board about his desire to help others even if they do not buy from him. He is about helping people and not stuck on just making a sale. Give him a call.

If you replace the tensioner make sure you don't over tighten the bolt.

Hope this helps,
Kurt

 

[DCabTaco]

Well, by loose I mean what little is showing on the top with only the valve cover removed can be pulled away from the cam gear almost to the point of sliding it off. The only reason I asked if it should be a little loose when I install the new one is because I have never installed one with a tensioner. I only have experience with the small block chevy type that slide on together and are pretty tight. I haven't removed this one nor could I see if the tensioner or rails are shot, yet. Unfortunately it's been raining here in sunny southern California so I have only been able to work on it on and off in between the heavy down pours. I guess once I remove it I will be able to tell exactly what broke. Needless to say I will be getting the complete timing chain kit with tensioner and rails since I don’t know when it was replaced last. Now I am just wondering what else I should replace. Once I remove the head I will see just how many valves will need replacing.

 

[Renaud33]

That sounds too loose to me. Hopefully someone else can give their thoughts. Might not be a bad idea to take the oil pan off and see if you can see any of the timing chain guides parts in there. I am pretty sure the timing chain kit comes with oil pump seals. A lot of people replace the water pump at the same time since you have to remove it anyway.

Kurt

 

[DCabTaco]

Everyone thanks for your help so far. It was the guides. There was a piece of them on the oil pan when I removed it. Now my next question is will a timing cover from an 85 fit an 83? The reason I ask is because I broke the cover when I was removing it and there is one on ebay with the complete set, chain, gears, metal guides, and cover for about 60 bucks, but it says it will fit 85-95 22R. Was there a difference between the 85s and 83s? Thanks.

Kurt I haven't contacted engnbldr.com yet, but I will email them right now and see what they can do for me. Thanks.

 

[Yeti]

I remember reading that their is a 2mm difference in the block height between the early 80's and later 80's 22r's so if that is true with the 83 and the 85 then the cover wont fit, i think...

 

[DCabTaco]

Ok well I contacted Ted from http://www.engnbldr.com/ and this is what he said about the timing covers:

The early timing cover is taller, 11.280". The late, (1985 to 1995 is
shorter, 11.090" tall)

So I guess I will have to look for one that fits my truck. Thanks for chiming in.

By the way, Ted was a big help. Thanks Kurt for recommending him. I will definetly be doing business with him. I haven't gone on the pirate board for a while.

 

[Renaud33]

Glad I could be of some help!

Kurt