TTORA Forum banner

1 - 20 of 60 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
598 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
See post in Landcruiser section also. Could it be that the new diesel V8 we've been hearing about will be this one?

<4.4 V8 twin turbo intercooled CRD diesel (300 HP, 428ft.lbs. torque)>

Sounds good, where do I sign up?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
231 Posts
calamaridog said:
<4.4 V8 twin turbo intercooled CRD diesel (300 HP, 428ft.lbs. torque)>
That won't compete with Ford, Dodge or Chevy. Need at least 350 hp and 500+ ft lbs of torque to play with the big dogs.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
503 Posts
Chief said:
That won't compete with Ford, Dodge or Chevy. Need at least 350 hp and 500+ ft lbs of torque to play with the big dogs.....
I Disagree with you. I would rather have a toyota desil with a little less HP then a chevy or ford. We have two new Ford SD desil's at work 1 blew a motor at 3k and the other has had a ton of eletrcial problems. Also I firmly belive that the ford and chevy desil's are over rated in terms of power. I have spent a lot of time around marine desils. We had a Yammar desil in our old boat that was only rated at 215HP but it would would push a 12 ton boat at a good clip all day long.

Chris
 

·
I LIVE FOR THIS
Joined
·
1,700 Posts
calamaridog said:
See post in Landcruiser section also. Could it be that the new diesel V8 we've been hearing about will be this one?

<4.4 V8 twin turbo intercooled CRD diesel (300 HP, 428ft.lbs. torque)>

Sounds good, where do I sign up?
Thats pretty damn cool, man i cant wait but why a twin turbo? Single turbo diesels get better numbers than that but anyway its a diesel. Does toyota make their own diesel engines?
 

·
I LIVE FOR THIS
Joined
·
1,700 Posts
CMB1998 said:
I Disagree with you. I would rather have a toyota desil with a little less HP then a chevy or ford. We have two new Ford SD desil's at work 1 blew a motor at 3k and the other has had a ton of eletrcial problems. Also I firmly belive that the ford and chevy desil's are over rated in terms of power. I have spent a lot of time around marine desils. We had a Yammar desil in our old boat that was only rated at 215HP but it would would push a 12 ton boat at a good clip all day long.

Chris
After reading your post that makes sence now. Smaller engine=better reliability.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
TRDUSA2002 said:
Thats pretty damn cool, man i cant wait but why a twin turbo? Single turbo diesels get better numbers than that but anyway its a diesel. Does toyota make their own diesel engines?
Maybe it's a reliability thing, two smaller turbo's vs. one big one. Just enough to spool up and give you a little kick.

...Or maybe they wanted to leave the fun up to the consumers :welder:. Truck owners will start sounding like mk4 supra owners, talking about going single, putting down big power, and smoking chevy's and ford's :D.
 

·
I LIVE FOR THIS
Joined
·
1,700 Posts
ONEWAY said:
Maybe it's a reliability thing, two smaller turbo's vs. one big one. Just enough to spool up and give you a little kick.

...Or maybe they wanted to leave the fun up to the consumers :welder:. Truck owners will start sounding like mk4 supra owners, talking about going single, putting down big power, and smoking chevy's and ford's :D.
A high reving small block diesel, yea that sounds cool.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
878 Posts
ONEWAY said:
Maybe it's a reliability thing, two smaller turbo's vs. one big one. Just enough to spool up and give you a little kick.

...Or maybe they wanted to leave the fun up to the consumers :welder:. Truck owners will start sounding like mk4 supra owners, talking about going single, putting down big power, and smoking chevy's and ford's :D.
it has to do with low end torque under boost...one turbo to spool in on the lower RPM and help engine torque then an exhaust turbo to clean out the combustion chamber as you progress in the RPM and refeed the intake side turbo..
...the engine numbers as far as BHP and BTQ are peak numbers and not useful numbers to compare domestic trucks to foreign trucks diesels (Like the V10 diesel in the VW Tourage) than the numbers thru out the RPM range...the use and drivability in the diesel engine design are totally different animals...
I have always heard Toyota built Diesels are some of the best engineered around...I remember reading the Isusu Duramax ( now GM Duramax) was adapted from an old school Toyota Marine Diesel design...but I definitely haven't kept on top of all their developments since there is likely nothing coming state side until the Diesel fuel sulfur content goes down and emissions standards change!

http://www.toyota-europe.com/technology/engines/dcat.html the BMW Mini Cooper has used Toyota built diesel engines like this over in the European market!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
598 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I don't know what to tell you. It's not just about "rated" numbers. A good engine/transmission package makes all the difference and reliability is #1.

I'm sure they will produce a competative product...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
428 lb-ft. :rolleyes: whatcha gonna do with that? play in the sand box? get a real diesel. my 2005 CTD has 325 HP and 610 lb-ft. that is a real motor. i could bomb it and really get some huge numbers. with 428 lb-ft, toyota will never break into the big truck market.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
878 Posts
surlynkid said:
428 lb-ft. :rolleyes: whatcha gonna do with that? play in the sand box? get a real diesel. my 2005 CTD has 325 HP and 610 lb-ft. that is a real motor. i could bomb it and really get some huge numbers. with 428 lb-ft, toyota will never break into the big truck market.
Toyota is in the big truck market over seas...

http://www.autoweb.com.au/cms/A_53495/newsarticle.html

You know Ford is the market leader in U.S. passenger "Big truck" sales and that didn't stop Toyota from overtaking them in total vehicle sales!!!

Toyota has plans for a Hybrid electric for the Tundra when the new San Antonio plant comes in to service... the rumor is that the electric engines will carry 1000 lb ft torque ratings and that is thru out the RPM range 0-what ever RPM, not peak like your punny 610 lb ft Cummings
...where the hell can you find real driving conditions where you actually get the RPM up high enough for that motor to generate 610 lb ft...you don't!!

Don't get me wrong domestic turbo diesels (even though Cummings and Duramax are not domestic) are good trucks...but there are better things on the horizon!!

http://www.atsdiesel.com/
BTW ATS performance diesel is local to me...you want to see what a performance diesel does to a drive train watch them blow stuff up at Bandimeer speed way...they can make 700+ hp and 1300 lb ft and they get it down to the ground better than any other performance diesel company but they sure go thru a lot of drive train parts!
That will be Toyotas limitation creating reliable drive trains for all the torque they will be producing!

if you play with numbers you better be good at math!!
comparing peak engine TQ and HP numbers is about as useful as comparing knife blade lengths on a butter knife...bigger is not always better!
PS I am not attacking you...just pushing home a point! maybe a little too hard!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
It seems some are jumping to conclusion too soon. Some are comparing this diesel to larger 3/4ton-1ton truck diesels. For all we know this new diesel may only be for the 1/2ton tundra, if it is it easily outclasses the competition. Don't forget the 400hp+ 700lbtq+ diesel mentioned some months ago, that could be the diesel that'll be in the 3/4ton-1ton tundra. Everytime a toyota truck comes out with class leading whatever, many are quick to compare it to other larger(3/4-1ton) and not even in the same class trucks. The tundra is a 1/2ton truck when it was introduced and see how many domestic owners were quick to claim their 3/4ton or 1ton can do better. We're still waiting on some word about the 3/4-1ton tundra, until then this looks like a 1/2ton tundra diesel. Think about it, this same diesel is gonna be in the landcruiser and sequoia too. Those two SUV are 1/2ton class. I'm sure the 3/4-1ton will have a larger more powerful diesel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
bluetaco said:
Toyota is in the big truck market over seas...

...where the hell can you find real driving conditions where you actually get the RPM up high enough for that motor to generate 610 lb ft...you don't!!

That will be Toyotas limitation creating reliable drive trains for all the torque they will be producing!

and what good does an overseas toyota do me unless i want to move overseas?

have you ever seen the torque curve as to when it hits 610 lb-ft? obviously not. it is flat from about 1600-2900. i bet i'll have a really hard time getting to 1600 rpm. :rolleyes:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
Also power to weight ratio comes in. Rams,250-350's, and 2500 hd's are beast. they got to weigh close to 7-8k?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,057 Posts
Yeah, they probably weigh around that.

Lets see, a little more torque to displacement ratios...
-4.4 Toyota @ 428lb/ft = 9.727lb/ft or torque per 100cc's.
-5.9 Cummins @ 600lb/ft = 10.169lb/ft of torque per 100cc's.

Considering Toyota isn't as dedicated to diesels as Cummins is, it isn't that bad. And isn't the Ford Power Stroke like 6.7l or something and not even the torque of the Cummins?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
the issue is not power to weight or power to cc. to compete in this market, you need to have well over 300 HP and nothing under 600 lb-ft of torque anymore. that is just where the market has gone. it needs to haul 15000 pounds, etc. i am sure the toyota will be a great truck (i have two and wished toyota had somethign to compete with my CTD), but if what you need is a serious 3/4 or 1 ton towing beast then it needs to be heavy and be able to move houses. even the Hino diesel has to be something 8 liters to get anywhere near the right power. it will indeed be interesting to see where toyota takes this. they need a solid axle rig with front coils, and a full floating rear with at least a 10.50" ring gear.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,407 Posts
CMB1998 said:
I Disagree with you. I would rather have a toyota desil with a little less HP then a chevy or ford. We have two new Ford SD desil's at work 1 blew a motor at 3k and the other has had a ton of eletrcial problems. Also I firmly belive that the ford and chevy desil's are over rated in terms of power. I have spent a lot of time around marine desils. We had a Yammar desil in our old boat that was only rated at 215HP but it would would push a 12 ton boat at a good clip all day long.

Chris
Ford diesels are badass, i use'em everyday at work. They can pull.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
surlynkid said:
the issue is not power to weight or power to cc. to compete in this market, you need to have well over 300 HP and nothing under 600 lb-ft of torque anymore. that is just where the market has gone. it needs to haul 15000 pounds, etc. i am sure the toyota will be a great truck (i have two and wished toyota had somethign to compete with my CTD), but if what you need is a serious 3/4 or 1 ton towing beast then it needs to be heavy and be able to move houses. even the Hino diesel has to be something 8 liters to get anywhere near the right power. it will indeed be interesting to see where toyota takes this. they need a solid axle rig with front coils, and a full floating rear with at least a 10.50" ring gear.
When Toyota releases it 3/4 ton or 1 ton truck, I'm sure the numbers will be comparable. But right now, we're talking about numbers for a 1/2 ton truck, so let's stay there. ;) As far as 1/2 ton trucks are concerned, I don't see anything around that compares with Toyota's numbers. The Titan and Dodge Ram 1500 make more horsepower, with more cubic inches, but the torque isn't even close. Nor does the F-150 nor the Chev/GMC 1500 come close. Toyota has them beat, with a smaller engine to boot. With a diesel, fuel efficiency will be better too. What can you say? This Tundra sounds like an excellent 1/2 ton truck to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
welll...

ford deisels are ok cummins is the power house of them all try gettin 22 on the high way wiht a ford 4x4 deisel the cummins is also the most reliable and most backed by company then the 3 my aunt got her ford just 1 month after my dad got his cummins,(she was jealous) the next step they took was the six gun pack from banks both trucks have it and both have the speed loader and basically the Identical kit, the dodge is a stick the PS is a auto. when going to the norco horse show my dad had a 6,000 pound trailer with 4 horses and my aunt had a 5,000 pound horse trialer/camper with 2 horses, going up cohone pass my dad threw it in the 6 upgrade setting and hit the gas and left it in 5th gear and went up the hill at 2,000 rpms at 65 mph my aunt threw hers in 6th setting hit the gas and couldnt pull that figure. iam not dissing ford but with such big diesels they should have the power readins alittle higher. anyways back to the 4.4 i dont think toyota is going for some BRUTE FORCE ride i think they are going reliable and mpg with a suv like that and the engine i would like to see 20 in town and mayb 23-24 on highway, it would also be a great trail vehicle becuase of the torque at low rpms and reliablity deisels are known to hit 500,000 wiht out engine rebuild my 22RE has 239,003 and is on orignal tranny and engine so who knows how far that will go. i also agree the twin turbo is prolly for how smallt he displacement is it can turn two small turbos better then one big turbo also more torquew
adam
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
878 Posts
surlynkid said:
and what good does an overseas toyota do me unless i want to move overseas?

have you ever seen the torque curve as to when it hits 610 lb-ft? obviously not. it is flat from about 1600-2900. i bet i'll have a really hard time getting to 1600 rpm. :rolleyes:
actually it is because I have seen the actual dyno results from a brand new 2005 Cummins Turbo diesel... that I know your 610 lb ft is non existent at 1600RPM in fact at any RPM, like the little Dodge brochure states...in the real world it doesn't exist, NOT stock at least and NOT outside a climate controlled room, engine dyno results from the manufacture are not REAL WORLD and they are always best case scenarios...

you can spout factory figures all you want...I'm sure that imaginary 610 lb ft is more than enough to haul what even trailer you need it to pull and you are perfectly happy with the truck you are paying for...
...but I know about million other trucks with smaller imaginary numbers in comparison that will do every thing yours does and then some !

read some of the other posts in this thread...maybe you should spend less money on that "610 lb ft" turbo diesel and more on buying a clue!

But you know if you are willing to spend more money you are bound to win something... like the emptiest pockets award!
what does 610 lb ft torque translate to? Real world...would the difference between ~482lb ft and ~610 lb ft keep me from hauling, well most anything you can legally or reasonably haul with a passenger class vehicle! answer is no!!

But don't worry the majority of consumers follow the same line of thought you do so maybe that 1000 lb ft rating Toyota potentially has on the horizon might translate to real world dollars for them and a shinny big pockets award!

keep rolling those eyes eventually they will uncross and you can see straight! :)
 
1 - 20 of 60 Posts
Top