Can brand new retainers (already installed) be moved out the 1+/-mm without damage so the seals center better? I have a pesky seal, but all my real axle parts are new (only a few hundred miles).
Can brand new retainers (already installed) be moved out the 1+/-mm without damage so the seals center better? I have a pesky seal, but all my real axle parts are new (only a few hundred miles).
Not really. You should go to toyota and buy two new retainers, cut off the old ones with a dremmel tool w/cutoff wheel and have them pressed on again. Doing this should save you time and money at the machine shop. These are on very tight and would be difficult to move. But before you cut them off, grease then up and find out where the actual seal lip is making contact and adjust accordingly. Feel free to post pics of you retainers so i can see where they are.
The best thing is to reverse the retainer orientation. This should get the retainer into the seal deep enough.
Yeah I would definately do the "grease trick" before doing anything drastic. It just sucks because, as I mentioned, all parts are new.
The only other tricky part is that the previous owner had work done to the rear axle before, where someone staked the sealing surface itself. I hope the leak isn't from between the seal and the sealing surface.
I have a parts "hook up" for OE parts, so I'm sure I can hit the $13 or less mark.
Yeah I would definately do the "grease trick" before doing anything drastic. It just sucks because, as I mentioned, all parts are new.
The only other tricky part is that the previous owner had work done to the rear axle before, where someone staked the sealing surface itself. I hope the leak isn't from between the seal and the sealing surface.
I have a parts "hook up" for OE parts, so I'm sure I can hit the $13 or less mark.
Yes. You can see where the machine shop cut too deep on the axle. It made a path for the gear lube to leak under the retainer. The picture above was from attempt #2 of 4 before I reversed the retainer, but yes, it also has a bead of sealant to keep the lube from migrating past the retainer.
I womder why the TSB doesnt list 4runners on there. I have had hell with my seals and bearings. Next time I have mine out I look into that. I have been seriously thinking about going with a completely different rear end.
I figured this whole topic is alluding some folks so I will post a cut-away view of the new OEM seal.
If you follow the FSM as they describe the "correct" placement, your sealing lip will be lucky to contact the non-polished bevel of the retainer as seen in this picture. Notice where the outer lip of the seal is positioned. That lip will leave a ring on the retainer leading you to believe your seal is in the center when in fact its not sealing at all.
If and I mean if you could insert the retainer all the way into the seal, this picture shows the best you can expect is to be just on the edge of the polished shoulder of the retainer. The reason I say IF, is because the retainer will rub the axle housing if you set it that deep into the seal. Its not possible to obtain this placement.
Following my direction, you can get the sealing lip of the seal right into the center of the polished shoulder of the retainer where it was intended to be for a correct seal.
I womder why the TSB doesnt list 4runners on there. I have had hell with my seals and bearings. Next time I have mine out I look into that. I have been seriously thinking about going with a completely different rear end.
That's funny you mention that. There have been times I have been so pissed at my rear axle, I just wanted to yard the whole thing out from under my truck and start fresh. This all started with a leaky driver rear seal, then went to a hellish nightmare rear disc swap "while I was in there"...and the saga continues.
The pics are great for us visual folks, so thank you for that. The machine shop should buy you a new axle shaft for ruining yours. That can and will make it prone to failure. I suppose a guy could have the retainer carefully shortened by a machine shop so it wouldn't contact the axle housing. I wonder if there are any shorter retainers for another application that would fit?
Even with my old school non ABS toyota axles i had a lot of problems with leaks. Im now running a 9" rear end and even when i broke a shaft and drove it back to camp with the axle flopping all over the place it didnt leak a drop.
OP: Great tech! Love reading stuff like this even when it doesn't apply to me.
Toyo must have corrected the retainer ring issue. I just picked up 2 new rings and the face (measured w/o the bevel) of these new rings are 16mm compared to your diagram of 9mm.
Through no fault of my own, I have sort of followed this method with some Timken 2043 seals on my 98 Tacoma with ABS. Looking back, an angel must have been looking over my shoulder, because I think this solution is brilliant!
The 2043 seals have a little bit more going on than the 1960s and are definitely deeper/thicker than the existing seal that was on the truck when I tore it apart. It was all I could find at Autozone... I did a grease test with the existing seals still in place and was happy with the "stock" arrangement of exciter and collar. But when I pushed in the replacement and looked in the murder hole of the ABS sensor, the deeper profile of the Timken was right against the seal housing. I pushed the exciter closer to the wheel to give it some room. I didn't take any measurements of this field mod, but have some photos.
The Timkens are the orange seals and the seal that was replaced is at the top of the photo on the red deck. The photo of the ABS hole is after the exciter ring was pushed closer to the wheel. This is the relationship I'm going with.
Thanks for posting the original DrCoffee! I feel a little better about the changes I made to (hopefully) make it work...
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