[Smith4190]

Alright now, I've searched for two days and can't find the answer so maybe someone with experience on this setup can give me some guidance. I have an '02 4x4 that I am about to put the 3" cornfed spacers in the front with the AAL and Bilstein 5100's in the rear. I am also going to put the ARB bull bar and a M8000 on the truck. Here is my question: I realize that the bull bar and winch weighs over 150lbs so is it gonna make the front droop so bad that I can't run 32x11.50's on it? Do I need to go with taller coils or what?

 

[SilverTaco]

Many will say the only cure for the front end sag is adjustable coilovers. Everyone says thats is the only way to compensate for the weight.

 

[sagexp]

Definately too heavy. I just went through this.

ARB and Winch with cable and rollers weigh about 187 lbs off the truck. Figure after you remove the stock tupperware and crash cans, that's about a 160 lb net gain up front, and it's not right over the suspension.

Stock Tacoma coils are 480 lb coils. I went with Downey Tacoma coils, 600 lbs. Still too much weight for them. This last weekend I put on the Tundra 800 lb coils in my Downey coil overs, and it solved the problem, and is still not too harsh, and I have synthetic cable for about a 20 lb loss as well. I haven't really pushed it off road yet, so can't completely recommend the set up, but, I can tell you that 600 lb coils and under is NOT the answer without a doubt.

My guess is you need at coils with about a 700 lb rating and some good shocks.

Since you're just adding spacers, you're adding no more ability for your front end to handle weight. You will hate the ride, or get sea sick, one of the two.

Unfortunately there is not cheap solution to adding a winch and ARB to a tacoma.

 

[Smith4190]

So is there any way to keep the spacer and just go with a heavier spring without going to coilovers that I probably can't afford? I was strongly thinking about going to the OME 882 setup but I can't afford it on sergeant pay.

 

[grillmasterp]

Alright now, I've searched for two days and can't find the answer so maybe someone with experience on this setup can give me some guidance. I have an '02 4x4 that I am about to put the 3" cornfed spacers in the front with the AAL and Bilstein 5100's in the rear. I am also going to put the ARB bull bar and a M8000 on the truck. Here is my question: I realize that the bull bar and winch weighs over 150lbs so is it gonna make the front droop so bad that I can't run 32x11.50's on it? Do I need to go with taller coils or what?

A quick search for ARB + Winch or ARB + spacer should have led you in the right direction ....

I've actually directly addressed your question in previous threads
http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showpost.php?p=68899&postcount=6
http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4211&highlight=arb+spacer

http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4679&highlight=arb+winch
http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showpost.php?p=51959&postcount=5

 

[Smith4190]

I tried most of that but I didn't check the 35 pages of results that came up. I know it's been addressed before but I thought maybe someone could take five minutes to set me straight. I appreciate everyone's help who responded.

 

[Smith4190]

Actually it was more like 15 pages. Thanks for the threads Grill. So even with synthetic cable and a hawse fairlead I will still droop too much for the 32's if I just have the spacers? I might just run just the bar and spacers for now and change to coilovers once I decide to install the winch. Also isn't the TJM bar a little lighter than the ARB?

 

[grillmasterp]

I tried most of that but I didn't check the 35 pages of results that came up.
So even with synthetic cable and a hawse fairlead I will still droop too much for the 32's if I just have the spacers?

Just to rant- there would be far less to weeding out if people tried to use the search function and added on to existing threads - rather than starting new threads

Just the bull bar alone dropped my front end-

I had NEVER experienced any rubbing with 32's & my 2.5 spacers (even when offroad)- until I added the Bullbar

You should be able to squeak by with the Bullbar , Spacers, & 32's on the road with minimal rubbing if any. But if you are gonna wheel and get a winch...prepare yourself for coilovers.

 

[Smith4190]

Hey I totally feel you on that and I'll just research and tack on to an existing thread in the future....I needed an answer quick this time though. I think I'll wind up going with the 3" cornfed and just the bull bar--no winch. I'll see how that goes and then once I manage to sell a kidney I'll add the winch and coilovers.

 

[hytenor]

Alright now, I've searched for two days and can't find the answer so maybe someone with experience on this setup can give me some guidance. I have an '02 4x4 that I am about to put the 3" cornfed spacers in the front with the AAL and Bilstein 5100's in the rear. I am also going to put the ARB bull bar and a M8000 on the truck. Here is my question: I realize that the bull bar and winch weighs over 150lbs so is it gonna make the front droop so bad that I can't run 32x11.50's on it? Do I need to go with taller coils or what?

just to add to the bad news...

No, it won't work.
even adding just the ARB (70#) to your front end will overwhelm your stock coils. And, to make things worse, you have the TRD progressives which will wind up with the top 3rd in coil-bind in short order after install of just the spacers, much less adding 70# up front. This is why you see so many posts about not adding spacers to TRD coils. Swapping to a set of used non-TRD v6 coils won't solve the problem either; the coils are just too light.

going to OME's coils, any of them since they are all the same rating of 500#, will not handle the weight either...been there, done that... and the coils AND shocks will fail quickly. OME suspension is great but will NOT hold the weight of a winch/bumper AND maintain much lift.

Just swapping those coils out for something heavier like Eibachs won't work either unless you swap out the shocks because the OE shocks won't be able to dampen the much heavier springs. You wind up going down the road bouncy, bouncy, bouncy, weeeee!

the ONLY solution is a heavier duty front suspenstion consisting of matched shocks and coils. The most common will be an adjustable coilover system like Donahoe, Sway Away, etc. I have SAWs with 675# coils and they are a tad too heavy for my 2.7 but probably just right for the average v6 excab. 800# Tundra coils seems to be the way to go for a Dcab.
There has been some experimentation with OE Tundra coils/shocks adapted to the Tacoma but there still isn't enough data to form much of a conclusion just yet.

I'm glad to finally get some feedback on the Downey 600s. I'm kind of surprised they didn't cut it.

My suggestion is to wait until you can afford to do it right and save yourself a lot of grief.

 

[sagexp]

The ARB alone is 110 lbs with the brackets and mounting hardware according to my scale, so you'll have a NET increase of about 70 to 80 lbs, not just a bumper that weighs 70 lbs. That additional 70 lbs way out front puts a lot of stress on the springs due to the cantilever effect.

I'd also caution against going cheap if you plan to wheel with a winch and bumper. No matter what springs you get, if they handle the weight, once you add a ARB and winch, they will sag, and you'll then have to add trim packs.

With the 600 lb coils on my DC, and with ARB and Winch with no rope (25 lb savings) it was borderline unacceptable. Added 6 lbs of synthetic and aluminum fairlead, and it brought it right back to unacceptable believe it or not, and by how it acted on the highway at speed and bumps on turns, unsafe in my opinion.

I don't think you'll get away with anything less than 600 lb coils with an ARB, and 650 plus with a winch. I've got the 800 pounders on my DC, and they do not seem any more harsh than the stock 480 pounders did......that should tell you what you're dealing with.

My mistake cost me $160, don't make one that will cost you more than that.

Get a coil over set up and save pennies for an ARB. Or, save a bit by getting one of their "scratch-dent" bumers for $450, versus $700 for a new one, and put the extra money into coil overs. With the money you saved on the bumper, and the money you saved on labor because now you can do it yourself wihtout screwing with spring compressors, etc., you are almost at what you'd of spent anyway, right? Especially if you figure all the labor to keep removing the coils to add trim packs after things settle and you later add a winch.

If I were pinched for money, I'd do a good coil over first, adjusted to stock height. Second, set up the rear, and re-adjust the coil overs. Later add ARB, and later add winch, adjusting the coil overs as required as you go. The beauty of coil overs is adjusted ride height for changes in spring sag or load is just a tire off and few cranks on the collar away.

Mounting a winch behind the factory bumper, you may be able to get away with stock springs and spacers, if your main concern is just recovery. If you're like me, and wanted the recovery abilities, along with a place to mount lights, and added front end protection, (and because the ARB just flat looks bitchin') you're screwed.

It's a hard pill to swallow, but there is just no cheap way to put an ARB and winch on a Tacoma and have a reasonably performing suspension.

 

[hytenor]

The ARB alone is 110 lbs with the brackets and mounting hardware according to my scale, so you'll have a NET increase of about 70 to 80 lbs, not just a bumper that weighs 70 lbs. That additional 70 lbs way out front puts a lot of stress on the springs due to the cantilever effect.

I'd also caution against going cheap if you plan to wheel with a winch and bumper. No matter what springs you get, if they handle the weight, once you add a ARB and winch, they will sag, and you'll then have to add trim packs.

With the 600 lb coils on my DC, and with ARB and Winch with no rope (25 lb savings) it was borderline unacceptable. Added 6 lbs of synthetic and aluminum fairlead, and it brought it right back to unacceptable believe it or not, and by how it acted on the highway at speed and bumps on turns, unsafe in my opinion.

I don't think you'll get away with anything less than 600 lb coils with an ARB, and 650 plus with a winch. I've got the 800 pounders on my DC, and they do not seem any more harsh than the stock 480 pounders did......that should tell you what you're dealing with.

My mistake cost me $160, don't make one that will cost you more than that.

Get a coil over set up and save pennies for an ARB. Or, save a bit by getting one of their "scratch-dent" bumers for $450, versus $700 for a new one, and put the extra money into coil overs. With the money you saved on the bumper, and the money you saved on labor because now you can do it yourself wihtout screwing with spring compressors, etc., you are almost at what you'd of spent anyway, right? Especially if you figure all the labor to keep removing the coils to add trim packs after things settle and you later add a winch.

If I were pinched for money, I'd do a good coil over first, adjusted to stock height. Second, set up the rear, and re-adjust the coil overs. Later add ARB, and later add winch, adjusting the coil overs as required as you go. The beauty of coil overs is adjusted ride height for changes in spring sag or load is just a tire off and few cranks on the collar away.

Mounting a winch behind the factory bumper, you may be able to get away with stock springs and spacers, if your main concern is just recovery. If you're like me, and wanted the recovery abilities, along with a place to mount lights, and added front end protection, (and because the ARB just flat looks bitchin') you're screwed.

It's a hard pill to swallow, but there is just no cheap way to put an ARB and winch on a Tacoma and have a reasonably performing suspension.

well put

hey, did Downey swap out your 600s for their 800s w/o charging you?

 

[grillmasterp]

well put

hey, did Downey swap out your 600s for their 800s w/o charging you?

I think he paid $160 for them

Quote SAGE
My mistake cost me $160, don't make one that will cost you more than that.

 

[sagexp]

well put

hey, did Downey swap out your 600s for their 800s w/o charging you?

Ha! No such luck! But, at $160, it was a relatively cheap lesson learned. Could have been worse I guess.

I did blow the $200 on synthetic and aluminum fairlead to try and save the 600 lb coils, but I think I'm keeping the synthetic, so at least that wasn't money pissed away.

Ultimately though, failure to go with heavy enough coils has me $360 lighter in the checking account than what I had planned on since I wanted to run cable for durability reasons. Now that I got the safe rope though, I'll run it until it gets torn up, if it does.

If someone can learn from my mistake, money well spent.......Yeah, right!

 

[musclesliver]

my OME 882s and shocks ran right around $300 so that isn'tthat expensive. I rubbed a little with the ARB and HS9500 up front on 32s but nothing to worry about. To do it over again I would have added about three on driver side, two on passenger side spacers from OME.

 

[hytenor]

my OME 882s and shocks ran right around $300 so that isn'tthat expensive. I rubbed a little with the ARB and HS9500 up front on 32s but nothing to worry about. To do it over again I would have added about three on driver side, two on passenger side spacers from OME.

just give it time. the coils and the N91s will fail with the amount of weight you describe. Unless you never take your truck offroad

A friend's (Dcab) 882s lasted a month or so and ARB replaced them; the new ones lasted 3 weeks. He now has the 800# Downey coilovers and is quite happy.

We both added trip pks to try and regain the lost lift. that only accellerated the failure rate as the taller 882s do not tollerate much extra preload. Adding much more than one trim to 882s will hasten their demise.
881s or 880s since they are a shorter version (same weight rate and same wire) are able to handle more preload. A 1" kit (1/2" thick) spacer with 881s is quite common and offers a ride as good as w/o the spacer.

Many of us have gone the same route you have and are now running heavy duty coilovers. live and learn.

 

[musclesliver]

I have been running these for almost two years now, no problems so far. I use to wheel the truck a lot but semi retired it. I would take the winch out but taking this arb bumper on and off is way to much of a hassle

 

[hytenor]

Ha! No such luck! But, at $160, it was a relatively cheap lesson learned. Could have been worse I guess.

I did blow the $200 on synthetic and aluminum fairlead to try and save the 600 lb coils, but I think I'm keeping the synthetic, so at least that wasn't money pissed away.

Ultimately though, failure to go with heavy enough coils has me $360 lighter in the checking account than what I had planned on since I wanted to run cable for durability reasons. Now that I got the safe rope though, I'll run it until it gets torn up, if it does.

If someone can learn from my mistake, money well spent.......Yeah, right!

Its too bad Downey wouldn't cut you some slack on the coils. but good to know for general info. One of Edgar's 800s crapped out in the first month and they replaced it right away. He hasn't had a problem since.

I don't want to know how much $$ I wasted not listening to those who knew in the first place. Two different sets of replacement coils and shocks with 500+# springs, loading and unloading the coil/shock assembly @ $40 a corner X I don't want to know how many times, a bunch of trim packers, yada yada yada...

the rope will be $ well spent. I have run mine over rocks and crap with no ill effects. In fact, when I used to do that with the cable it would start to fray and make use with heavy leather gloves manditory to keep from ripping my hands up. When the synthetic gets a little frayed it's no biggie. I've even read a couple of long-term writeups on this stuff and it is plenty tough. Gone are the days of worring about kinking the damn cable while using it, as well.

I bought 100' of 5/16" but if I had it to do over I'd get 3/8" instead. My reasoning was to keep the line from bunching up too much on one end during long pulls where I might not be able to keep it even accross the drum. In practice, however, this has not been an issue. I do plan on ordering a 50' extension from OKoffroad. I carry enought straps to extend things but there will be that one time...

 

[hytenor]

I have been running these for almost two years now, no problems so far. I use to wheel the truck a lot but semi retired it. I would take the winch out but taking this arb bumper on and off is way to much of a hassle

fer sure on the removal, LOL makes it a 2-person job when the winch is in there. glad your coils have held up but you are in a small minority
did you add trims? how many/side? Edgar had 2/each and I went with 3 dr/2pass but the coils kept sagging. His Dcab wound up with less than 1.5" of lift WITH those trims, sheesh. his 285s were not happy. I mainly got tired of always bottoming out on even the smallest of bumps/dips. I had to slow to a crawl for everything and it got old fast. ARB replaced mine as well since they had lost nearly an inch in length but I had already gotten the SAWs so I sold the OMEs.

 

[musclesliver]

no trim packs on either side. Driver side rubbed a little at lock with the tire jammed up there.

I know I don't have the amount of lift that they say but.....