It is only a step in a long proccess. I wouldn't get to excited, I have a feeling tat the battle is just begining. Like the energy crisis in the 70's that facilitated the TAPS and the production of Prudhoe, this is completely a demand issue. It will happen when the deamnd dictates.
Arctic National Wildlife Refuge open for drilling
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Ursidae69 said:Anyone that knows me can already guess how I feel about this. I'll just add my 2 cents.
First Economics:
The notion that opening ANWR will reduce our dependence on foreign oil is just political hogwash designed to make you believe it’s your patriotic duty to drill. Fact is, Chevron and other large oil companies will own that oil, and that oil will enter the world market, not just the US market. Assuming we can get even the highest estimates out of ANWR, OPEC will still be the world's leading oil producer by far and all they have to do is lower the supply to keep the demand up. They will not lose any money, and if they really do fund terrorists, and I think the damn well do (bastards), they will still be able to do it with ANWR pumping. The largest segment of the world's population, the many 3rd world nations, are just now coming online into the petroleum based market. You think gas is high now? Wait until 6 billion screaming Chinamen want gas for their cars. Bottom line, it's a world market and ANWR won't make a noticeable dent in that market. It will take at least ten years before we actually get any oil out of ANWR if they started today. They need to build thousands of miles of roads and pipelines, docks for ships, and the actual wells. They can only work and build when the ground is frozen, otherwise the tundra is too soft and you can't drive anything on it or you sink. Used to be that the areas stayed frozen >200 days per year, the last few years the opposite has been true and the areas has been staying thawed >200 days per year. And people think global warming is a joke. ha
First off your too wordy for not having a clue, typing too much text and misrepresenting them as facts seems to be a trend on this forum lately.. The infrastructure is already up here in prudhoe bay which is not far fron ANWR(get a map). The Ground is frozen much of the year and gravel Roads along the flow lines will provide access the days that ice roads cannot be used (which will be used primarily for heavy equipment) Ships & docks? Your a tool Get a clue before you spout off your ignorant bullshit, 40 miles of flow line to connect most the fields to the Badami Sattelite field and another 40 miles of existing infrastructure to the production centers in Prudhoe, then it gets sent down more existing pipe TAPS to an existing terminal and shipping facility (Valdez). . You are posting on second hand knowledge and what youv'e picked up is quite questionable. In the 4 years I have bveen working here break up is in june and freeze up is no later thanthe second week of septmenber on averge. How many fucking days is that?? I bet you never have been to the Arctic.
I can't take anything else you talk about seriously becasue you started off with lies, desception and ignorance. The rest of your post is probably the same.
Alt Fuels and Conservation:
Governor Swarzeneggar (sp?) already has begun a hydrogen fuel network delivery system in California. http://hydrogenhighway.ca.gov/ The technology is here and in use now. There are buses that run on hydrogen, they emit ZERO emissions, in fact, they actually clean the air. Hydrogen is readily available, worldwide, we just need the infrastructure in place. Once we have the infrastructure in place for both making hydrogen through electrolysis and have a delivery system, the automakers will follow suit with the market. We will always have gasoline driven cars, but once we start converting just a small percentage of our national fleet of cars to alt fuels, the barrels of oil we'll save will far outnumber the barrels we would have gotten from ANWR.
Automakers also have the technology available now to greatly increase gas mileage, but they choose not too. It's America, everything is market driven here, and the market the public wants are SUVs and Hummers getting 8 mpg. If the government raised standards for gas mileage, even if just for sedan style cars, the automakers could do it no problem. But, we choose to drill instead.
Aesthetics:
The entire north coastal plain is already heavily dotted with oil development. The only place free from this is the small section of coastal plain in ANWR. As the leader of the free world, why can't we choose to protect the last few wild places in this nation? The analogy used is that the whole drilling footprint will be the size of a municipal airport in a place the size of North Carolina. This small postage stamp will be of little impact. This again is just plain rhetoric by those wanting drilling. There will have to be roads, there will have to be pipelines and more roads for the pipelines and these will stretch across vast stretches of land. It's completely misleading to say it will be a small impact. Some people, like the local Gwich’in Native American tribe, need the ANWR to stay wild and they have a connection with the land. It's not right to ignore their pleas.
The Future:
I'm sure the drilling will pass, the house is an easy pass and of course Bush will sign. It was pretty sneaky to put it in the budget rather than a stand-alone bill, but hey, it's politics. In ten years, gas will be so high, but all the pumping in ANWR and everywhere else will mean little to the average American consumer, but the oil-execs will be as rich as the Middle East terrorists. Nice how that works. Hopefully we'll have more alt fuels coming on-line. Once we get a nice Toyota truck in an alt fuel model, I'll get one. I trust Toyota. But, all the drilling won't mean a thing except environmental damage.
We have so many important things that we make out of petroleum, plastics, surgical tools and implements, etc., etc. I hope we will someday stop wasting the stuff in our inefficient cars.
That's all I got to say.
Don't state an opinion based on BS and represent it as fact.
You should research this more. You will find the answers(if you can shift through all the layers of misinformation) quite enlighteneing. This is not on that tribes land. They will not get any financial benefits from it. It is human nature to not want to see your neighbors enriched.Ursidae69 Some people said:
First of all ANWR is 60 miles to the east of Prudhoe Bay, This iilistrates youre exageration. It is not hundreds of miles.Ursidae69 said:Okay, smart guy, yeah Prudhoe Bay is relatively close based on the size of Alaska to ANWR So, does the analogy that all the poiticians use that says this whole footprint will be the size of a municiple airport fit?? How big is a small airport compared to the hundred miles of road and pipeline needed to get from ANWR to Prudhoe?? The slick lies you people tell are sad.
Yes, I have been to Alaska, spent two weeks in Fairbanks a couple years ago, drove up to the Arctic Circle. These gravel roads, how long will that take to make hundreds of miles of them??
If you're argument was half as good as the useless insults, you might be worth debating with. People that shit-talk in place of making a good point are annoying.
Second Prudhoe was developed using 1970's technology. Of course the footprint is larger in Prudhoe bay than What is required in ANWR. There have been lessons learned and technological advancements. Just likee the difference betwen a vehicle from 1977 compared to today things have gotten more effecient, cleaner and more reliable. Footprint refers to the amount of space that permanant facilities and infrastructure will take on the Tundra. The size of an entire municipal airport is actually given alot of wiggle room(that's huge!) A production pad will be about the size of a footbal field some larger some smaller. Multiple directional wells will be placed on each pad and tied into a manifold building on that pad, The flow will then have to be piped toa facitlity for initial seperation and transport.
There will have to be at least 1 large flowline connction this network of well pads to the existing infrastructure capable of handling in excess on 1 million BBL a day. Heavy equipment and drilling rigs can move accross the the tundra on Ice roads and staged for work on thes pads. The ice road can melt and the rigs can stay until the short summer is over and ADEC will approve more offroad travel (Travel accross tundra is well regulated and requires a perment from the state regardless of what type and size of vehicle). This is not a theory. This has been used to develop the Alpine Field to the west of Kapurak that borders NPRA. Lessons learned will make the next venture even more effecient, with even less impact.
If you want to talk wildlife I have many pictures and memories of waiting hours for huge herds of caribou to cross a road.(they always have the right of way).
So you drove the haul Road? That haul road was built decades ago. It's a scenic drive but it took less than a year to build.
I have no talking point. This is my real life experience through more than just a visit to Alaska and the oil industry.
This picture was taken in late june/early july . Fly fishing among floating chunks of ice is fun!
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It was a threatened arctic species of fish that was the last of it's gender in it's species. It was delicious.hytenor said:Why you evil, murdering bastage!! that poor fish will never see it's home again; shame on you!
was it tasty?
PETA
(People for Eating Tasty Animals)
Actually it is a flavor between a A Salmon and a Lake trout. Pink firm flesh but not as oily as salmon. You would think with all the pollution we are dumping into prudhoe bay the fish would have more oil content?
I try to lead people to the truth, yet so many won't see it. I think it is a genetic program in people to divide on every issue they can regardless of logic.
Those assetions are true.. Don't post BS and you won't get called on it.Ursidae69 said:It wasn't in this post, but earlier in the thread buddy. You made all sorts of assertions, but hey, it's the internet, no biggie.
Have a good trip, Take lots of pics.Ursidae69 said:Is this where we both start screaming "Would you stop touching me??" :lmao:
I'm leaving for a couple weeks for my yearly Baja trip, hope the discussion continues in my absence. Take it easy.
Delicious! I would rather have wild Salmon anyday, Sea run feeder Kings and silvers are very good.hytenor said:yum! we've been getting some wild Steelhead in the stores of late that is sooo good
There is this one lake in the high-Sierra that has golden trout (some over 20") with a bright red/orange flesh that is extremely oily but after hiking 3 days the protien really hits the spot...and tasty?
Now, I just need to get myself back into shape for the long hike since this summer will have a late ice-out and the fishing will be glorious.
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