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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been reading the various threads about purchase price and it seems there are no real screaming deals to be had.. especially now that the rebates are gone. What Im wondering about is the fees on the bottom line.

the best deal I have before even sitting down with pencil is for a
2007, 4x4, four door, short bed, TRD off road, with tow package list $29954
no hassle price $27,227

In this price he has hidden
TDA fee: $445 (toyota dealership advertising feee)
Gasoline: $10
Dealer holdback: $508
Whsl Financial Reserve: $254



These are all bogus fees according to various web sites. The net says I should be able to get all but maybe $250 of the TDA fee waived But the web also says that I should not have been able to get the $27,227 price in the first place.


Did anyone else get the fees knocked off? Toyota seems to stick to their fees a bit more than other dealerships.

If I can get the fees waived, it looks like my offer price should be $26,227-26500 + Tax and title (destination is already included)

Thanks in advance for the input
 

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looks like a god price. I got mine for 27K but they also gave me 11500 for my old truck that would have bee nhard to get 10500 out of it lol...... Alot of times fee's are non-negoitable esp. dealer fees.
 

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$27,227 including those hidden fees you listed? That would work out to $28,860 including tax in Indiana....plus a $200 or so documentation fee.... That's the best price I've seen to date. We beat on everyone up to the General Manager at Andy Mohr Toyota in Avon....$29,137 out the door and thought we were stealing the truck.

Go for it!
 

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In this price he has hidden
TDA fee: $445 (toyota dealership advertising feee)
Gasoline: $10
Dealer holdback: $508
Whsl Financial Reserve: $254
I would go $500 above (( invoice-mfg incentives ) + destination charge), then you have additional tax title and tags. The fees listed are BullShxt except for Dealer HoldBack which I believe means the dealer your buying it from was not the original dealership given the vehicle to sell. This is a fee from Toyota the original dealership gets for the vehicle being sold, even though another dealership sold it. If I'm wrong on this, I'm sure I'll be corrected.

Maybe the "Whsl Financial Reserve: $254" is a dealer's interest fee for not selling the vehicle for a while. When they sit on the lot, they still have to pay the note's interest.

Whatever so, you should shop around and not have to pay for a vehicle sitting on someone else's lot or the time it sat there. Ask the dealer if the "Dealer HoldBack" and "Financial Reserve" fees mean this and post back.
 

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TacoTRD said:
Maybe the "Whsl Financial Reserve: $254" is a dealer's interest fee for not selling the vehicle for a while. When they sit on the lot, they still have to pay the note's interest.

Whatever so, you should shop around and not have to pay for a vehicle sitting on someone elses lot or the time it sat there.
Oh, snap! Forgots...."floor plan."
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
For future reference: of the 12 dealerships I checked in the midwest for that model the median price was $27994 Best was $27,227 Worst was list at $30,094 + Tax and title. These prices were either emailed or received by me while at the dealership.

tacoma 4 door, 4x4, short bed, TRD off road, automatic, tow package, floor mats, base stereo, silver. Thats it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
I will cross reference that pricing against my toyota vendor price tomorrow but vendor price usually sucks. I have been told employees can get a better deal on their own than through their employee pricing

I had planned to go make an offer on Thursday but I have had some things come up which are likely to push me into next week.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Dealer hold back is money toyota corporation holds on to and then releases to the dealership on a quarterly basis based on vehicle sales. It permits the dealership to borrow money based on a higher list price. Its money the dealership will get from Toyota... so they are double dipping on this fee. Once to toyota and once to the buyer.

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/incentives/holdback/index.html
 

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TacoTRD said:
I would go $500 above (( invoice-mfg incentives ) + destination charge), then you have additional tax title and tags. The fees listed are BullShxt except for Dealer HoldBack which I believe means the dealer your buying it from was not the original dealership given the vehicle to sell. This is a fee from Toyota the original dealership gets for the vehicle being sold, even though another dealership sold it. If I'm wrong on this, I'm sure I'll be corrected.

Maybe the "Whsl Financial Reserve: $254" is a dealer's interest fee for not selling the vehicle for a while. When they sit on the lot, they still have to pay the note's interest.

Whatever so, you should shop around and not have to pay for a vehicle sitting on someone else's lot or the time it sat there. Ask the dealer if the "Dealer HoldBack" and "Financial Reserve" fees mean this and post back.
Agreed, the dealer is charging you some crap fees. Delaer holdback isn't a fee, it is the amount of profit Toyota North America will pay the dealership on top of any profits above invoice. That is why dealers can sell cars for invoice or in a lot of cases (especially with Fords) you can buy for back of invoice and the dealer still makes profit. I am guessing the dealer holdback is around $800 or so. The wholesale financial reserve is also crap; well, unless you are a credit criminal. In which case, there are times you can still get financed by paying a fee to the bank (not Toyota Financial, a higher risk lender). I am doubting that is what this fee is though. They are probably trying to pack some profit for the finance department. I would negotiate a price above invoice that you are willing to pay, anywhere from $200-500 over should be easy to negotiate, unfortunately Toyotas are in high demand and it would be tough to do any better than that. Make them show you the invoice, it's not uncommon. The only other significant fees you will have to pay is Tax and License which will depend on what state you are in. In Cali, it's about 10% for tax and license combined (7.75 tax about 3 license). That's all you should have to pay. Good luck and don't let them push you around.
 

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1.) they should fill up your truck for free w/ gas
2.) My doc fees were 200 but i got them to drop them (they just dropped the price
400 then added in 200 for the fees on the paper, said thay had to write it up like
that)
3.) Thats all the fees I had on my truck besides taxes. (1123.00 about)
4.) I got quoted anywhere from 26,500-31,000 for the same truck, just shop around. I'd had and easier time buying if I didn't trade in my truck cause some places wouln'd give me what others would and vice versa...
5.) depends onwhat area you are in too.

bitch and moan and groan about the fees, If they want to sell the vehicle bad enough they'll come down off them. Get them to throw you in some matts or something. I'm going back and bitching about my truck not being aligned and hoping to get a deal on some seat covers and stuff..Maybe lol
 

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keynote22 said:
Dealer hold back is money toyota corporation holds on to and then releases to the dealership on a quarterly basis based on vehicle sales. It permits the dealership to borrow money based on a higher list price. Its money the dealership will get from Toyota... so they are double dipping on this fee. Once to toyota and once to the buyer.

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/incentives/holdback/index.html
Correct, but if the selling dealership has to pay this "hold back" to the original dealership to get the vehicle to sell, they are trying to charge you this. Other than ordering a new vehicle, buy it from the original dealership it was designated for. Many salesman say they will search for the truck you want in 15 states around. The lot they get it from charges your salesman this hold back and it is passed on to you in a hidden inflated price.
 

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TacoTRD said:
Correct, but if the selling dealership has to pay this "hold back" to the original dealership to get the vehicle to sell, they are trying to charge you this. Other than ordering a new vehicle, buy it from the original dealership it was designated for. Many salesman say they will search for the truck you want in 15 states around. The lot they get it from charges your salesman this hold back and it is passed on to you in a hidden inflated price.
Usually that's not the case because more often than not the dealer will do a dealer trade. In which case the dealers aren't paying each other any holdback.
 

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Did you ask - and/or PURSUE them to charge you invoice???

I just bought a 07 Access Cab TRD Sport Auto 4.0L and I paid $26,470 which is actually invoice or below. I think sticker was $29,470 (or something like that). They did tack on some fees - I can't complain.

Besides that...I got a hella deal on a trade-in on my 2004 Dodge Ram, which I was totally unprepared for them to give me that much. I had it listed to sell privately but traded it in instead.

No incentives and no other deals to be had.

Other than that - they screwed the frigin license plate on the front (which I don't need) and found a couple good scratches on the door. They're gonna fix the scratches and fix the license plate screw holes. :D
 

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There are many things you can do to make sure you get the best deal. When I bougt my wifes 06 RAV4, I found out the invoice price which included the destination charge. I then went through AAA (Automobile Club of SoCal) and was quoted a price through the fleet department. They have a "set" price which was $400 over invoice. I asked them to show me the invoice an they did. If not, leave. It's no secret. I negotiated to about $250 over invoice with no other fees. This was when the RAV just came out with the current redesign. Here in SoCal, the only other fees you should be paying for is tax, title and license, about 10%. Basically I figure what I want to pay for the vehicle and add 10% for the out the door price. All of those other fees are BS. I would laugh at them if they tried to make me pay for advertising fees and holdback. Holdback is what the dealer gets from Toyota (2% of the base MSRP).

Biggest piece of advice, don't be afraid to walk out!!

And I thought there was a $500 rebate on the 07 Tacos right now. I figure with the rebate you should be able to get the truck for around $300-$400 under invoice. Thats what I would be shooting for. Good Luck and let us know how it went.
 

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Those fees are bullshit. Plus the truck comes with a free tank of gas. They are also charging you a fee to write up the finance paperwork. I got most of my fees waived because I used an independant auto broker to order my truck. Good luck.
 

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Ten dollars for gas, huh?

What, it's going to come to you with three gallons in the tank?

Where do they get ten dollars from?

In my opinion, worrying about these fees is counter productive.

Have you ever heard of a red herring?

It's like this...

They make up some bogus fees that add up to a thousand dollars.

Then, they add these bogus fees to the already inflated price of the car.

When you sit down to buy, you see these numbers that are plainly calculated to look like bullshit. (Ten dollars for gas, huh?)

So, what do you do?

You start chasing the bogus fees around. You demand explanations. you barter. you argue. you demand that they do something about the stupid ten dollars.

Meanwhile, they have you TOTALLY DISTRACTED away from the thirty grand that you are spending.

My advice is to ignore the little distractions.

Who cares if ten bucks of that thirty grand is for gas?

When the bottom number is thirty grand, you should be saying "I was thinking twenty seven five" so the negotiation can actually go somewhere.

Why argue over bullshit fees when you could be negotiating a lower price instead?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
In the end 2 dealerships out of 12 offered me the $27227 up front.

Well I subtracted out the fees. Then I added $250 back in for TDA and another $500 for dealership profit. My offer price was $26,760 or about $500 less than they originally offered me. The 2 dealership have said no. No discussion, just no. Im paying cash up front with no trade in and they dont seem to like that idea either. I figured it would make everything easy. WRONG they make money on the trade and on the financing so I am the least profitable customer ever lol. Guess I have a few more places to try before I give up. :D
 

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yes all those fees are valid. however they should be factored in the invoice price. Your $27K should have those fees included.

When the internet manager sent my the invoice for my truck, it had the price broken down with all those fees. I added up the base price of the truck + accessories + destination + TDA holdback wholesale reserve fees, the total invoice including those fees came out to be the same as the invoice price listed on edmunds and kbb. Lots of people mistake those fees as being "double charged". I personally think dealer's should not list those fees and just give the total invoice because lots of people get confused thinking they are being ripped off and throwing a fit.

Here is more information about those fees

http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/pricing-and-dealers/59437-what-do-these-fees-mean/
 

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x2 Fastfrank!! Make your best deal and live with it. I went through an auto consultant and got a great deal, I also paid cash for my truck, but did not make the FATAL mistake of telling the stealership that before closing the deal. If you are going to pay cash, work out the deal, then spring it on the shit heads at the last minute. Catch them like deer in the head lights, watch them shit their pants as the profit melts right in front of them. I told the consultant to wait until I was signing the papers to spring it on them. Then they tried to trump up the fees and I said NO, a deal is a deal.
 
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