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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Truck Info.
Currently on my truck I have a 3 suspension lift and a 3 in body lift from the prior owner.

tools
tig welder
grinder
and tons of spare metal.

I've tried to have the alignment on the truck done but firestone can't get the camber within spec. The camber is off by 2 degrees. They say the cam bolts on the lower suspension arm are maxed out and I have verified this. After much seaching on the forums I noticed Demello offroad makes a adjustable upper suspenion arm but the 1000 dollar price tag is a little rich for my blood at current time. But dam are they nice. Props to them for the engineering.

Here's my idea that I would like to shoot to you guys.



I realize this would have to be done 4 times for each lower suspension arm and maybe the hole for the bolt enlarged a little. Plus I would have to cut the back tab off.

How much spacing do you think it would take to fix a 2 degree problem? I'm hoping to find a cheap but acceptable solution to my problem plus its a challenge.

I do have a lifetime alignment with them so if the correct spacer isn't installed the first time its not a problem.
 

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It's Donahoe, not Demello who make the adjustable arms. Demello will sell& install them very well, but Jason does not build them. Maybe try some UCA from Camburg , Total Chaos, or ?? All Pro. I'd say the 'burg and All Pro, because they are sponsors here, and if you have any issues, they are HERE on the board, and would handle your issues. I have heard exactly the same for TC, but they aren't sponsors. Anyway, the correction is built into most of these guys arms'. And at???$450-550 it is a good deal.
 

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I'm not sure why I put Demello, stupid newbie mistake. Why spend 450-500 dollars when something can be fixed for pennies. Plus I have to spend a good chunk of change to replace my flat springs in the rear.

Wondering if this mod is a sound engineering design.

In a about year to two year I will proably be converting to a solid axle.
 

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First off, have a real alignment shop take a look at your suspension. I saw an alignment done by Firestone last week. Lets just say it wasn't pretty.

Your idea about modifying the alignment cams is not a good idea. It might work, but will leave your suspension weaker. Installing an aftermarket upper control arm is a good starter.

Now, what I'm curious about is your suspension lift. I've seen many lifts before, but every time somebody had maxed their alignment cams it was because the lift was too high. I'd love to see pics of the truck showing the front lift.
 

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ShowStop said:
First off, have a real alignment shop take a look at your suspension. I saw an alignment done by Firestone last week. Lets just say it wasn't pretty.

Your idea about modifying the alignment cams is not a good idea. It might work, but will leave your suspension weaker. Installing an aftermarket upper control arm is a good starter.

Now, what I'm curious about is your suspension lift. I've seen many lifts before, but every time somebody had maxed their alignment cams it was because the lift was too high. I'd love to see pics of the truck showing the front lift.
I wont be welding onto the cam just changing the bracket basicly. I would have to remove the cam to just make the tab a little thicker. All the welding would also not be in the inside of the bracket but the outside. That way the arm would move back some more. Structurally nothing would be changing. Only the amount of the backwards movement of the lower suspension arm.

Heres a better question. Is 2 degrees anything to worry about?

The lift on front
rancho shocks and not sure about the spring

Rear
Rancho shocks with blocks.

Before I get flamed about the pretty chrome. These are 2 month old pictures before I installed rock sliders. And the back light bar is coming out once college finals are done with.
 

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great to see someone thinking outside the box. i have the same problem as you. mine is caused by the lower front crossmember actually being slightly bowed. this causes the coil buckets to be angled towards each other. either way, let me know if you find a way to resolve this.
 

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I think that if you weld a spacer onto the inside cambolt bracket you might have issues fitting the cambolt into the mount. You may have to grind off the outside tab and weld on a new strip of metal further out. If you don't understand what I'm saying let me know and I'll try to explain better.
 

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peekay331 said:
great to see someone thinking outside the box. i have the same problem as you. mine is caused by the lower front crossmember actually being slightly bowed. this causes the coil buckets to be angled towards each other. either way, let me know if you find a way to resolve this.
you got it, bent frame/crossmember

mine is the same way

to duc, be glad its only 2 degrees off



time to visit a frame straightening shop
 

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SantaCruzRC said:
I think that if you weld a spacer onto the inside cambolt bracket you might have issues fitting the cambolt into the mount. You may have to grind off the outside tab and weld on a new strip of metal further out. If you don't understand what I'm saying let me know and I'll try to explain better.
Nah I understand what you mean. Moving the bolt back will cause it to hit the back bracket. Thats why I was planning on grinding the tab off. Luckly the back tab really doesnt matter since the bolt only really touches one at a time. Right now only the front one really matters unless I was stupid and decided to drop the truck. I will placing a new one on the back anyways.

I am wondering if I need to grind the back part of the bolt hole a little.
Excuse my sad paint drawing

The area in the green I think I will have to cut away to make the whole bigger. The red stuff will be cut away and the black will be welded on.

Hopefully I will be calculating the amount I need to place the bolt back to correct the 2 degrees. After I get to work tonight I will try to design something up in autocad.

Sorry if I come off a little harsh. Its really not ment to be. I'm taking everyone's idea into consideration. The more ideas the better the design.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Dangit I didnt notice that I was posting on two different accounts. Sorry about that. I forgot what my login in was but it seems that my work computer still has the old account.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
TacoDell said:
Here's an idea... SAC that shit and all yer problems will go away... :D
Dont have the money yet for that. First I have to buy a few other things in life.
1. convert garage door from 2 doors to 1
1.5 horizontal band saw
2. mig welder
3. college bills.
4. ARB locker in the rear.

Then I will have all the toys to have some major fun with the truck
 

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Go to another shop and ask them to change your caster, not camber. Sometimes caster can help camber.

Heres a right up on it:
We have noted that on many vehicles, caster and front camber must be adjusted together. Many SLA suspensions use shims between the upper control arm shaft and the frame. Others use eccentrics to position the front and rear of the control arm shaft. Slots in the frame have also been used for adjusting caster and camber.

On vehicles that use shims, the shims are added or removed to affect changes in caster and camber. If the control arm shaft is on the inboard side of the frame, removing shims will increase camber, and if the shaft is on the outboard side of the frame (as with many light trucks) removing shims will decrease camber. With shims, changes can be made to either the caster or camber with little affect on the other angle. To change camber, shims are added or removed equally from the front and rear shim packs. To change caster, shims are moved from the front shim pack to the rear or from the rear to the front. Shims of various thicknesses can be used to make fine adjustments.

Suppose you are aligning a light truck, and you want to increase both the caster and the camber on the left front wheel by 0.5 degrees. Adding a 1/16 inch shim to the front shim pack might give you the desired changes. Suppose on the other wheel the camber is good, but you want to reduce the caster by 0.5 degrees. Moving a 1/32 inch shim from the front to the rear might give you the desired change. Actual changes will vary by make and model.

Copyright belongs to Todaysclass for above text.


Also, can somebody tell me if tacomas have eccentrics at the upper control arms.
 

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If any of the above doesn't help you, I'll try again. Of course you can always take a hammer to it....atleast, I feel like doing this when I work on suspensions and the job becomes a pain in the ass. Also, it might only change it by about a degree, but thats way better on your tires than you would think.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
stucktaco said:
If any of the above doesn't help you, I'll try again. Of course you can always take a hammer to it....atleast, I feel like doing this when I work on suspensions and the job becomes a pain in the ass. Also, it might only change it by about a degree, but thats way better on your tires than you would think.
On the 2000 tacoma there is no way to shim the top of the upper control arm.
Here is the factory service manual page on the upper control arm.
http://www.deserted1.com/FSM/Repair_Manual/03tacoma/sa/fusa4wdp/comp.pdf

The upper control arm is solidly mounted to the bracket and the bracket is welded to the frame.
I could move the mount on the bracket but not sure if the coil-over might get in the way of the bolt going all the way thru.

Keep the idea's coming.
 

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Get a cheap end mill of the correct diameter for the slot and fit it into a drill. It should make it fairly easy to lengthen it, though it may take a while, it will look very professional, you'll likely destroy the endmill though. Also maybe clamp a guide made of thick steel below the slot so that you don't cut it out crooked, that couldn't help your caster.
 

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when you say that your camber is at 2 deg. i'm asuming that is positive meaning the top of the tire is tilted out. if that is the case the way you cams are maxed out in the picture is pulling the tire bottom in. if the top of the tire is tilted out then your cams have been maxed out in the wrong direction. you should have plenty of adjustment range.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
DylanDr said:
when you say that your camber is at 2 deg. i'm asuming that is positive meaning the top of the tire is tilted out. if that is the case the way you cams are maxed out in the picture is pulling the tire bottom in. if the top of the tire is tilted out then your cams have been maxed out in the wrong direction. you should have plenty of adjustment range.
According to the print out the
\\\\\\\\\left\\\\\\\right
\\\\\\\\\-1.9 camber -1.7
\\\\\\\\1.0 caster .8
\\\\\\\\.10 Toe .10
\\\\\\\\\12 SAI 11.3
\\\\\10.1 included angle 9.5

Care to send a test sample :D DylanDr.

I just need to find my camera to take a picture of the sheet
 

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Don't want to jump the subject here, but I'm looking at a similar issue. The local Goodyear shop aligned my 2002 DC PreRunner 2WD and says my camber is off by about a degree or so, due to my lift. I'm new to the IFS system (my FJ was EASY) so I'm wondering what the cams should look like on the top and bottom control arms.

I assume the top arm cam "wide portion" should be facing out (away the motor) o ) and the bottom cam should be facing in, towards the motor. ( o This is assuming that the offset is positive at the top, since I just put on a set of Fabtech's. \ /

The lift is cranked just 1.25 threads showing, which is .25 more from the suggested starting point, so I really don't think it's cranked even CLOSE to a max setting. I'm guessing I have about 1.5 more lift than stock at this setting.

My cams look like they are almost perfectly centered vertically, which leads me to believe they were NOT adjusted properly? The moron suggested a bolt kit which I now understand is for the pre 2000 Tacos. Makes me question his knowledge since he doesn't even know what he suggested is only made for an earlier model truck.
 
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