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What the heck? There has been a lot of work in order to rpevent the closure of carnage and I thought we had "made it" but apparently not. We need to check over on colorado4x4.org because they'll have the most relevant discussion there...

"The decision won’t be effective for 90 days, with a 45-day appeal period and a 45-day period for the Forest Service to respond, Walsh said."

So this means get your carnage runs in NOW! I can't believe my favorite wheeling place is gonna close. I am so moving out of boulder when I can. I am so tired of Boulder's attitude!
 

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STITCH - Come and Take it!
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Sad day for all. :(
So Tread Lightly!
 

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Mythica said:
So you don't have to dig through all the whiney stuff - here is the link to contact the Boulder Ranger District

http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/arnf/contact/

IMHO, the email that Hokie sent and posted was exactly the opposite of what's needed. Remember, you don't have to tell people what they want to hear, but you DO have to tell them how they want to hear it! Remember, you're dealing with tree-hugging hippies (for the most part). Talk up about enjoying the area, the monetary impact of people coming to enjoy the trail, yadayada, and that the best way to reduce the impact is to open more trails to spread it out. Admit the area is junked up, but point out that legitimate OHV users are rarely the ones doing that, as we understand the environmental impact and want to keep trails available for everyone to enjoy! Gates or obstacles could be installed to keep out the ne'er-do-wells and minimize the dumping activity.
:2cents:
 

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I totally agree with you about his email, and the points that should be covered.

Bitching at them will not get anything accomplished, as you said you have to present it in a profesional manner, otherwise all you do is fuel the fire.
 

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SO um Troy... go ahead and feel free to write the letter and post up a linkt o it so we can tweak it for our own use. LOL

I gotta find Wellsville ohio satellite imagery right now, otherwise I'd write it. :D
 

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Yeah I saw... but it sound slike they aren't closing it quite like we thought. They are going to open a rock crawling route before the close whatever it is they are closing
 

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Thank you for your comments. I have forwarded them to the project
coordinator.

The Decision Document will be posted this week. Within this document, you
will find responses to similar comments.

http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/arnf/projects/ea-projects/brd/lefthand/index.shtml

Elaine Wells
USDA Forest Service
Roosevelt National Forest
303-541-2500




To
06/13/2006 08:10 [email protected]
AM cc

Subject
[WebEmail] Carnage Canyon Trail
Closing











## Begin Transmission ##
USDA Forest Service - National Web Site Email Response Form.
====================================================================================


Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 at 10:10 Hours (Server time).

From: Troy Gorrell

Telephone Number:

Street Address:


Message Subject: Carnage Canyon Trail Closing

Message Contents:

I am extremely disappointed to hear of the Carnage Canyon trail closing. I
recently traveled from my home in Ohio to Boulder specifically to enjoy the
trail. Others from NM and other areas of CO joined us, resulting in people
from widely different areas being able to experience and enjoy the
beautiful CO terrain, and bringing a significant monetary influx to the
Boulder area.

While I appreciate the environmental concerns, after reading the various
studies, I don't think closing the trail will significantly alter the
condition of the area. Gates or obstacles could be put in place to allow
OHV to pass, but keep out those only interested in dumping trash and
otherwise damaging the area.

Opening additional areas, such as the proposed rockcrawling area, will
serve to minimize the impact on the Carnage Canyon trail, but they will be
just as easily overwhelmed if Carnage is closed! A system of OHV trails
would greatly reduce the impact on the area.

I appreciate your time, and look forward to your response.


====================================================================================

The following information may only be used to monitor for SPAM and/or abuse
posts
using this automated response system. It may not be used for any other
purpose.
IP Address: 63.215.124.11
Browser-O/S: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1)
====================================================================================

## End Transmission ##
 

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Yeah, its is exactly the action discussed on this board over a year ago...we knew this was happening, I talked extensively about the damage to the stream...and talked about how challenging the proposed new rock crawling trails looked according to the proposed plans.

It's a "best management practice" that Brian and I agreed needs to be done...It would be even nicer if they find a way to put the trails into a rotation of open and closed to allow natural terrane change and vegetation regeneration!
 

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Got this email today:

Hello Troy -

Thank you for your e-mail regarding the Lefthand Canyon OHV Area Travel
Management plan Decision and the Closure of Carnage Canyon. Carnage Canyon
is located in an active creek bed with severe impacts to soils, vegetation,
and water resources in Lefthand Canyon. This route has been determined to
be unsustainable and one of the objectives of the Plan is to provide a
sustainable road and trail network. This canyon has been so severely
damaged from motorized use, that it will be closed to entry and allowed to
heal. Restoration efforts will take place in Carnage Canyon as well.

The Forest Service recognizes the valuable and scare opportunity that
Carnage Canyon provides to rock crawlers. For this reason, the District
has elected to create two new rock crawl routes to replace Carnage Canyon.
These routes will be designed and managed for rock crawling opportunities
that will exceed those found in Carnage Canyon. They will also be designed
and managed to withstand high levels of use. Every effort will be made to
encourage use on these new routes and Carnage will be closed with gates and
enforcement. Now that the Plan is complete, the District can obtain
funding within the agency and through grants to build these new routes and
provide presence in the area. OHV clubs have also expressed interest in
helping the District provide a high quality sustainable opportunity in the
Canyon. In addition, aside from the rock crawl routes, a road and trail
network has been identified with varying challenges throughout the OHV
Area.

I hope this addresses your concerns. If you wish to discuss it with me
further, please feel free to contact me at 303-245-6409.

Thanks again and have a great day.

Cat Luna
Acting South Zone Planning Team Leader
Boulder Ranger District
3063 Sterling Circle, Suite #1
Boulder CO 80301
303-245-6409
[email protected]

Replied with:
Thanks for your response. I look forward to the prompt creation of these new areas. What is the time frame for their creation? I am sure both the national and Colorado chapters of the Toyota Territory Off Road Association will take great pride in offering assistance in this endeavor. Who should they contact to see what assistance can be offered?

Troy Gorrell
President, Ohio Chapter TTORA
 

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Anyone who doesn't think the erosion in carnage is a result of off-road activity there obviously never traveled to the area before it was widely known. I've been 4-wheeling there since I was 16 (only 7 years) and have seen it go from a 2 track through a quiet canyon to a free for all of trails from one wall (and sometimes up) to the other. Trees were knocked down by erosion and carelessness. Spinning tires changed the path of the creek. It has become a nightmare. I applaud the forest service for finally taking some action to rehabilitate the area. Mine might not be the popular view here, but we did this to ourselves. We saw people (or did it ourselves) taking routes that weren't part of the official trail and we didn't speak up. We let it get out of control and this is the consequence. I won't miss the trail anymore than I already do... because I miss what it once was and that has been gone for years now.
 

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Concur with you there Fireman about taking action, it points to a large problem with environmental use issues, how can it be enforced? DNR considered issueing permits at one time but again, how would it be enforced? The folks that are tearing up the off trail areas are likely the ones who would not purchase a permit. So the only enforceable option is to close the areas. What makes that so duanting is that there is indefinite, no timeline for "parole" for reopening the area or rotating closures to allow vegation to heal and all...so closings put greater pressure on the remaining open areas and the cycle spirals... ahem.
 
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