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Discussion Starter #1
I was in Chicago last night and went to go see Oz. (sorry Bob kinda quick trip)

Anyway we were discussing brake options. I have been thinking of just getting Wilwood 4 piston calipers for my Dana 44. But Oz seems to think the Corvette calipers would be cheaper yet still yield four pistons like I want.

Does anyone know what year model the vette Caliper would work with the dana 44 out of a '86 grand waggy? I would like to compare prices between the vette's and Wilwoods.

(Yes! Yunny, I know these trucks are not sports cars.:lmao: ) I just like the idea of having more braking force.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Will Knox said:
What kind of braket would you use to mount the new fixed calipers vs the old floating calipers. Will

I am sure I could fab up something from some 1/2" flat stock, but these are some issues I am trying to work out.

I guess a better question would be what are the pros and cons of this thought?

I like the idea of being able to use the stock location for the caliper mounting but I would like the "best bang for the buck" also
 

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i think it was the early 80's vette calipers that would bolt on to a waggy D44. no new brackets are needed..
the calipers are $$$ and run something like $100+ each. I think AK and Yunny looked into the mod a few months ago.
Parts mike would have the exact year if everyone else (including me) has forgotten.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
snowchucker said:
i think it was the early 80's vette calipers that would bolt on to a waggy D44. no new brackets are needed..
the calipers are $$$ and run something like $100+ each. I think AK and Yunny looked into the mod a few months ago.
Parts mike would have the exact year if everyone else (including me) has forgotten.
Thanks Chuck! I thought that there was a direct bolt on vette caliper, but I was beginning to second guess myself as usual.

$100+ for the caliper is what I expected. the Wilwoods which I was all but decided on are $136 ea. so maybe a few penny's here or there will help.

I'll contact Parts Mike and find out what he knows. Thanks again!
 

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should be ok with the stock master cylinder. stock tacoma brakes are 4 piston

i am going to give partsmike a call tomorrow and see whats up...stopping 37's is getting slightly dangerous at highway speeds:)


just reviewing some past threads on the topic... mid 70's corvettes had the 4 piston brake calipers..... front and rear...not sure what one to exactly get, but the prices for a loaded caliper from kragen for example goes from 100 -160 bucks... if wilwood is selling direct bolt ons and that are piston for 139 a piece...that sounds like a killer deal


for more info... look at 1975 chevy corvette
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Will Knox said:
Do you need a bigger master cylinder to push those calipers?
Yes you do!
:D

It is already planned to do the chevy master cylinder converstion at the same time. I just need to figure out the caliper delimma.

I am almost "reverse engineering" this stuff. Starting backwards and working to the front. I made the decision to do the larger brake system, knew I needed a bigger M.C. can't decide on type of rotor until I decide on Caliper so there is where I am stuck.

Thanks for your input though. I do appreciate it.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
YUNADERIS said:
should be ok with the stock master cylinder. stock tacoma brakes are 4 piston

i am going to give partsmike a call tomorrow and see whats up...stopping 37's is getting slightly dangerous at highway speeds:)


just reviewing some past threads on the topic... mid 70's corvettes had the 4 piston brake calipers..... front and rear...not sure what one to exactly get, but the prices for a loaded caliper from kragen for example goes from 100 -160 bucks... if wilwood is selling direct bolt ons and that are piston for 139 a piece...that sounds like a killer deal


for more info... look at 1975 chevy corvette
the stock toyota M.C is a dual port M.C but the chevy/dana calipers are larger than stock Toyota calipers and require more fluid pressure for greater force. The Chevy masters are I "believe" a one inch bore where as the Toyota bore is 13/16". I know that doesn't sound like much but as you said stopping 37" at highway speed is a bit dangerous so any advantage you can achieve should be worth it. at least that is the way I am approaching this.

the wilwoods I found were through Jeg's for about $139 (if I remember right, it has been about a month since I looked at my catalog) but I still need to contact them to make certain that they have an application for the Dana. As you can imagine what application I found was for street/race car application

I also emailed Parts Mike yesterday to see if he knew what corvette application may work. Just waiting on his reply
 

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Bear said:
the stock toyota M.C is a dual port M.C but the chevy/dana calipers are larger than stock Toyota calipers and require more fluid pressure for greater force. The Chevy masters are I "believe" a one inch bore where as the Toyota bore is 13/16". I know that doesn't sound like much but as you said stopping 37" at highway speed is a bit dangerous so any advantage you can achieve should be worth it. at least that is the way I am approaching this.

the wilwoods I found were through Jeg's for about $139 (if I remember right, it has been about a month since I looked at my catalog) but I still need to contact them to make certain that they have an application for the Dana. As you can imagine what application I found was for street/race car application

I also emailed Parts Mike yesterday to see if he knew what corvette application may work. Just waiting on his reply
The larger bore does not give you more pressure but more fuild with less travel on the peddle. The chevy MC would give you less pressure then the toyota one. The larger the bore, the less the pedal needs to move but the less pressure you get.
 

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ptrautne said:
The larger bore does not give you more pressure but more fuild with less travel on the peddle. The chevy MC would give you less pressure then the toyota one. The larger the bore, the less the pedal needs to move but the less pressure you get.
That is a good point, I think my main objective or thinking on this was to get more fluid or have a larger resevoir.

I just can't see a stock toyota M.C giving you the same amount of fluid pressure as a full size truck's M.C. A toyota is a much smaller/lighter vehicle thus engineered with a braking system to match that need. A full size truck is much heavier and requires more stopping force. But I do understand your comment about more fluid less travel.

I am not argueing, just trying to reason this out. you bring up very valid comments.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
ATLRoach said:
Why not a M.C. out of a F(Z)J 80/100?

Not sure? I think I have possibly heard some using them. But to me, I would think going with a Chevy or GM part would be easier to find if you were on the road or trail, and needed a quick fix.

That is purely hypothetical though, I could be completely wrong :confused:
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Will Knox said:
What rotor would you use?

There is an age old debate about slotted or drilled rotors versus vented rotors and such.

But the main thing for me is to make sure the rotor matches the caliper. you have different calipers for different thicknesses of rotor. that is the reason I am holding off on rotor selection until I get the calipers.

Hell! just this morning I decided to go after work and look at the stock rotors to actually see if they maybe worth using. I automatically disqualified them when I bought the axle, but after thinking about everything, It may save some coin to start out with them if possible. I am just not sure how thick the stocks were or if over time they have warped.

Ideally I am wanting a 1" drilled rotor, for more material and venting of the product gases of the pads. But like I said I am waiting until I decide on the calipers.

I would consider a slotted AND drilled rotor, but I think for our trucks and for rock crawling, the needed amount of heat build up in the friction process needed by the brake system would be self-defeating. Due to the slotted/drilled rotors ability to maintain lower tempertures. Although the main purpose of these types of rotors is not to disappaite heat but rather dispell harmful gases produced by the heat/friction between the pads and the rotors.

(hows that for a rambling post? :D )
 

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Discussion Starter #17
YUNADERIS said:
if you find a caliper thats four piston, and bolts onto the dana 44 axle...the stock master cylinder is fine

stock tacoma calipers are four piston

does anyone know the diameter of the stock tacoma caliper pistons? someone that hasnt swapped yet and ditched their stock junk?



BEAR :)
ha ha!
:D

I actually had my calipers off last week for an emergency pad change, but did not think to measure the piston.

To venture a guess I would say maybe 1.5 maybe 2" diameter. Something also to consider though is with GM type calipers the overall size of the caliper moves the pistons further apart than the stock caliper. I don't know for sure if that has anything to do with stopping ability but it makes me stop and wonder if maybe it does.

You know three years ago, when I decided to SAS I figured right at $5000 would give me a good swap. I am fairly certain that I have already spent $4000 on this damn idea, but last night figured up how much more I still need to finish…came up to an estimated $1934 in parts including labor for the gear swap. did I screw up my math in the beginning or what? I guess not settling for cheaper parts here and there has really cost me huh? both in time and money.

Also realized Valentines day was the actual three anniversary of my endevor…bought my axle on Feb 14 2002! How time flyes when you are struggling. :lmao:
 

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Discussion Starter #18
YUNADERIS said:
if you find a caliper thats four piston, and bolts onto the dana 44 axle...the stock master cylinder is fine

stock tacoma calipers are four piston

does anyone know the diameter of the stock tacoma caliper pistons? someone that hasnt swapped yet and ditched their stock junk?



BEAR :)
BTW! I am still flirting with the idea of using the stock disk brakes from the front for the rear. means even more coin out the pocket in the end. At least the wife is on board about getting this done…basically tired of hearing about it constantly ( my plan is working! :xdevil: )
 

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Bear said:
That is a good point, I think my main objective or thinking on this was to get more fluid or have a larger resevoir.

I just can't see a stock toyota M.C giving you the same amount of fluid pressure as a full size truck's M.C. A toyota is a much smaller/lighter vehicle thus engineered with a braking system to match that need. A full size truck is much heavier and requires more stopping force. But I do understand your comment about more fluid less travel.

I am not argueing, just trying to reason this out. you bring up very valid comments.
Chevy could be using larger pistons on the caliper. Also I do not know how power brakes (never looked in to it) work so difference in the power system could affect the pressure greatly. What I was saying about the pressure decrease with increase diameter in the MC is strictly just looking at the hydraulic leverage. The rotor diameter and pad area also change the braking
 

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Discussion Starter #20
ptrautne said:
Chevy could be using larger pistons on the caliper. Also I do not know how power brakes (never looked in to it) work so difference in the power system could affect the pressure greatly. What I was saying about the pressure decrease with increase diameter in the MC is strictly just looking at the hydraulic leverage. The rotor diameter and pad area also change the braking
Again, more good food for thought. Let me give you the e-article I am working off of. Please note that I do not know this guy from Adam, but what he says made sense to me. I could be following the wrong pied piper on this one. But like I said it made sense to me when I read this a few times.

http://home.4x4wire.com/erik/4runner/brakes/

You brought up another factor with this last post. Power brakes. Toyotas have a dual diaphram booster at least most tacos do. this helps because you are starting with a "high level" of leverage on the peddle with it. But if you start with a low volume of fluid ie. stock toyota M.C.combined with larger braking components then you are loosing some of your leverage from the power assist. If you have larger rotors and brake components such as with the Dana/spicer axle you need to regain some of that leverage, especially since you have larger parts to operate and stop.

I would also think the higher volume of fluid the GM M.C provide will maintain a lower temperture also preventing brake fade at those grueling points and conditions.

Let me know what you think? In doing my SAS I want a nice truck, but to me 80% of having a nice truck is having a safe truck. Okay maybe more like 90-95% but you get the idea.

right now, I like my brake peddle firm so I don't want to loose any of that. Although I know with 37" tires and a solid axle up front. I am going to too regardless. Just like to keep as much as I can.

I am enjoying this dialog, just goes to show everyone two people can have a diffference of opinion and still remain civil on the boards!
 
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