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Takama's-N-Shit!
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X2 on a quality system, I have went through two pumps because I bought second hand pumps trying to save money and they have ended up dieing....which ever way you go just buy a new psc from the get-go.:2cents:
Smart young padewan....... you are learning the ways of the force quite well! :D
 

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assist on a full body small tire mild wheeler

full hyrdo on something your going to wheel with big tires.

Im on assist and works just fine just go with quality stuff. aka PSC. I will be going full hydro when I go 1 tons however
 

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I'm not building the mini-truck axles, though they will be Toyota ;)
That's probably a bad idea if you're thinking 80 axles or some such bs imho. It's your money, I'm just saying in advance it's probably a bad decision.:2cents:
Anyway, I've owned multiple rigs with full hydro and will say once again that it is simply not as "predictable" as typical steering. Return to center is not what I'm talking about, the system just doesn't steer consistently like a stock steering box and linkages do.
You can certainly "feel" pressure surges and full hydro systems tend to be MUCH more vague. I really don't know how else to describe it honestly. I love it on the trail, but wouldn't want to be driving much over 50 mph with it very often fwiw.
I know rigs do it in KOH, but there is also an enormous amount of "room for error" in that situation...you're not running tire to tire in the race. Once again, do what you want to do...not my money, I'm just telling you that from my experiences I wouldn't want to run it on the street.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
That's probably a bad idea if you're thinking 80 axles or some such bs imho. It's your money, I'm just saying in advance it's probably a bad decision.:2cents:
Yeah, you guessed right, I'm looking at FZJ80 axles at the moment. Can't really argue with a set of axles with selectable lockers for around a grand. They'll be under a 'light', full bodied, low power rig, so I figure they can hold up to 40s. If not, there are Longfields available for the front and alloy shafts for the rear...

Anyway, I've owned multiple rigs with full hydro and will say once again that it is simply not as "predictable" as typical steering. Return to center is not what I'm talking about, the system just doesn't steer consistently like a stock steering box and linkages do.
You can certainly "feel" pressure surges and full hydro systems tend to be MUCH more vague. I really don't know how else to describe it honestly. I love it on the trail, but wouldn't want to be driving much over 50 mph with it very often fwiw.
I know rigs do it in KOH, but there is also an enormous amount of "room for error" in that situation...you're not running tire to tire in the race. Once again, do what you want to do...not my money, I'm just telling you that from my experiences I wouldn't want to run it on the street.
I know you're not used to hearing this, but this is exactly the kind of howyoubeentheredonethat based advice I'm looking for!

assist on a full body small tire mild wheeler

full hyrdo on something your going to wheel with big tires.

Im on assist and works just fine just go with quality stuff. aka PSC. I will be going full hydro when I go 1 tons however
How about full bodied with big tires?

;)
 

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Don't forget your toy knuckles, Full hydro stock knuckles and big tires will at least shear Knuckle studs If not split the knuckle through the stud holes.
With Hydro assist the knuckles will last a little bit longer.
 

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Discussion Starter #26

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I am suprised nobody has brought up suspension limitations. Crossover "forces" you to run a three link with a panhard, and all the worries of reducing bumpsteer. Full hydro would allow you to do a triangulated three link if you wanted to, or still use a panhard, but without the limitations of bump steer
 

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Discussion Starter #28
I am suprised nobody has brought up suspension limitations. Crossover "forces" you to run a three link with a panhard, and all the worries of reducing bumpsteer. Full hydro would allow you to do a triangulated three link if you wanted to, or still use a panhard, but without the limitations of bump steer
Well, I did allude to it in the 1st post, but no-one seems to think it'll be an issue :dunno:

I know that I will eventually want to convert the front from leafs to links, and I figure that not having the (crossover) steering geometry to worry about would make that conversion simpler.
 

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Too much BS to read in this thread. One myth of hydro steering is that if your engine is not running, or you lose pressure, you have no steering. Hell AZRocks 2 years ago I proved that wrong when I drove back from JD losing pressure till I had no fluid and it drove still, just hard to turn, very hard. Also, in Moab this fall I drove my rig down the highway multiple times up to 20 miles in a trip at 40-70mph with stickies, beadlocks, and water in the tires. Just depends on if you're stupid enough to think it's gonna drive like a new car. I was surprised how nice mine drove at that speed on pavement. I could do 60mph all day long and not care, except tires would get $$$$. I believe a wise man after going from hydro-assist to full hydro once said, "I should have never even wasted money on hydro-assist steering, fucking dumb. Why did I do that?"
 

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I would say the only reason any of us do dumb shit with regards to our own builds is that its all part of the learning process. u can't jump into a full on buggy and expect to know that rig, work on it, and design new shit for it if you hadn't made those dumb mistakes prior. I think the value of experience and doing things twice, or sometimes three times, outweighs any monetary losses experienced by making bad choices. None of us would be where we are if we hadn't made some dumb choices.
Anyway, full hydro sounds nice to me, but I still drive my pig on the highway to often to justify the expense right now. I also haven't really had too many problems, and I hear too many bad stories of full hydro and asphalt. clearly miller is the exceptions yet again.
 

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Too much BS to read in this thread. One myth of hydro steering is that if your engine is not running, or you lose pressure, you have no steering. Hell AZRocks 2 years ago I proved that wrong when I drove back from JD losing pressure till I had no fluid and it drove still, just hard to turn, very hard. Also, in Moab this fall I drove my rig down the highway multiple times up to 20 miles in a trip at 40-70mph with stickies, beadlocks, and water in the tires. Just depends on if you're stupid enough to think it's gonna drive like a new car. I was surprised how nice mine drove at that speed on pavement. I could do 60mph all day long and not care, except tires would get $$$$. I believe a wise man after going from hydro-assist to full hydro once said, "I should have never even wasted money on hydro-assist steering, fucking dumb. Why did I do that?"
You're high....your pile won't go anywhere near 60mph.:D He's not talking about driving 20 miles once a year Miller, he's talking about driving it to the trails....regularly. BTW, if you lose pressure completely, you cannot steer at all...ask Uriel and Chad as they had to "bookend" me and "steer" me back to the trailer once...absolutely zero steering...wheel just spun, much like Chad's mom does on my junk.:lmao: If you lose partial pressure, you can certainly "muscle" it around...but it definately sucks (unfortunately I have extensive experience with this phenomenon!:mad:).
 

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hydro assist with cross over is my vote

i talked with some guys that ran the "ultimate adventure" with full hydro steering. they said some of the long drives were exhausting due to always correcting the steering.

have fun with your 80 axels, just keep in mind when your done, you could have tried and true for HALF the money.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
I would say the only reason any of us do dumb shit with regards to our own builds is that its all part of the learning process. u can't jump into a full on buggy and expect to know that rig, work on it, and design new shit for it if you hadn't made those dumb mistakes prior. I think the value of experience and doing things twice, or sometimes three times, outweighs any monetary losses experienced by making bad choices. None of us would be where we are if we hadn't made some dumb choices.
Anyway, full hydro sounds nice to me, but I still drive my pig on the highway to often to justify the expense right now. I also haven't really had too many problems, and I hear too many bad stories of full hydro and asphalt. clearly miller is the exceptions yet again.
I don't want to get stuck with is a jack-stand queen that I'm always fucking around with instead of wheeling. I want to build it and then be able to go wheel it every weekend like I have been (or used to, anyways) with the Tacoma. I feel like I've wheeled the taco to the extent of its capabilities (without trashing too much of the sheet metal) and this is the next step. Not looking to build a full on buggy out of this truck, just a really capable, mostly full body rig ;)


Really good input from everyone in this thread. I'm taking it all into consideration (except for Spinas, who seems to think that a hydro system will work without any fluid :eek:) :)
 

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I don't want to get stuck with is a jack-stand queen that I'm always fucking around with instead of wheeling. I want to build it and then be able to go wheel it every weekend like I have been...
Good luck with that. ...That's the dream, but I imagine you'll be in the minority if you manage to pull off that minor miracle -- wheeling every weekend without breaking? In a SFA rig that you drive to the trail? That doesn't seem like the norm for linked SFA rigs built like you're talking about. The trade off is you get to wheel bigger obstacles, harder lines, etc., but then you can also break bigger too. I know what you mean though. We wheeled our IFS trucks all over the west almost every weekend, drove to and from every trail, and I only had to wrench instead of wheel on the weekends once or twice. Swapped out 9 CV axles in 2 1/2 years though, :eek: but it only cost about $240 for all of those axles, given the fact most of them were under warranty. Start wheeling/breaking every weekend and the repair costs will go up a lot from what we're used to.

Since I bought Zilla its been pretty much constant wrenching and coughing up cash for parts through the holidays and I haven't even wheeled it once yet! :rolleyes: I would have rather been wheeling, so I hear what you're saying! But that's my hope too... to build it reliable enough (and wheel it wisely enough) to be able to wheel regularly like I did the Taco and still drive it to the trails. Might be a pipe dream, but oh well. I am secretly hoping for the same thing as you. Hydro assist seems like a sweet setup to me, but I've never had a rig that was set up with full hydro for comparison.

Zilla goes down the road alright on 37s with hydro assist. Not like the Taco, but it rolls pretty damn straight and stays in the lane even though it needs a new steering pump and the steering box needs to be rebuilt. So FWIW, even at less than 100% the hydro assist seems to do alight in the 4Runner. It sure is easy to turn these big heavy 37's compared to what I expected. I think a well-done hydro assist setup would turn the 37's to 40's you want to run for the trails and still go down the road well enough for your needs. But I'll keep watching this thread to see what others think. ;)
 
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